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Adam Carolla Rails Against Occupy Members: "....Self-Entitled Monsters"
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Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Why Occupy Wall Street is So Hard to Understand
http://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...-wall-street-is-so-hard-to-understand/249347/
http://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...-wall-street-is-so-hard-to-understand/249347/
Bookmarked for later. Should be a good read along with the rest of the mornings news over breakfast later.
Karma Kramer
Banned
harriet the spy
Member
As much as you like to convince yourself that you made it ok thanks to your hard work, you can't convincingly show that it was not, in fact, luck. I am not saying you were lucky. But the idea that successful people were successful because of their hard work, and it was their hard work that made them successful is completely circular. This is especially the case in a society with a winner-takes-all system. By this i am not necessarily meaning that those who make it take everything, but more than relatively small difference in skill / achievement can translate into huge differences in standards of living.
Unfortunately those government programs are the first on the cutting block when those in power fuck up the economy. Also due to said fuckups of the economy, these same government programs are experiencing overflow as more and more those are losing their living. Bootstraps aren't as sturdy as they used to be.
"Nothing is stopping you from making a decent living"? Not true. Our entire system is stopping millions from making a decent living. And then it's forcing the majority of the burden on those lucky enough to make a decent living but probably won't for long at the current rate (i.e. middle class).
This isn't addressed to you, but just in general. But it's unfair that those who run the economy get to screw it up in their haste for greed and get away with it. Compensated in fact. To add to the insult, the millions affected the most by it are now expected to boostrap it up and deal with a harsh situation that arose from the machinations of the very same people telling them to deal with it.
I constantly hear how the rich have to carry the burden of everyone else. The reality is that it's the exact opposite. I'm happy people are figuring this out after 3 decades of being fed shit.
In my line of work, and just general observations throughout life, especially with friends in the Finance industry, accounting, consulting etc. A lot of the time it's definitely who you know and not what you know. Hell, they even have referral systems where you get money for putting up names. So sometimes luck does play in to it as well.
Trent Strong
Banned
I can't remember the link. That picture and article was posted in another thread and a few people there tore it to shreds by showing the guy's huge arrest record which had stuff like domestic abuse. But obviously, no one is going to be put in prison for 15 years just for stealing $100, unless it's some sort of corrupt judge being paid off by the mafia or something.
He robbed a bank. Which is a federal crime, regardless of the amount stolen or the disposition of the robber after the fact.
His punishment was in line with a repeat offender whose most recent crime was handled under federal jurisdiction.
Yea, some people are dealt a crappy hand. I wouldn't say mine is absolute shit, just a bit tougher to overcome. But what about those people in their late 40's-50's barely scraping by with their much less than ideal situation? You can blame them and blame them as much as you want but I don't think many will attempt to strive for better.
Where I live in USA, unemployment just went down from 9.1% to 9.0% which was reported less than two weeks ago. I guess this is newsworthy and a cause for celebration in improvement. Are almost 1 out of 10 people lazy as hell in my state or is everything just going to shit on a lesser scale? I really don't follow enough of the whole economy situation to answer this...
The population is only getting larger and larger. I think back in the baby boomer days it was fine as there were so many manufacturing jobs that you could find something right out of highschool that could pay for you and even maybe a family if you kept at it. This generation, with minimum experience and knowledge you can go at best minimum wage with retail or something just as unrewarding. And not everyone is going to strive for a college degree. It seems there are ones with a college degree that have a tough enough time securing a job they can be at least proud of.
Basically, I think if we don't find or invent a gigantic, blossoming industry for everyone to participate in then we are going to have a hard time. Retail is growing just because there are more and more people needed to be served.
It only took a few dozens threads becoming unreadable because of his obsessive spamming. :/
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
Yes I can very well show it was all hard work. There is not one job I applied and searched for myself where I wasn't competing with other people for the same job. There was never one job I had that was handed to me or found for me. Luck didn't make me good at my profession. I'm not born with any gifts that translate into my skill. I had to work to develop it.
There is not one thing about my success that came by a lucky circumstance. Ever. I was never referred or contacted. I did it myself. I learned myself.
In fact, I would say I was very unlucky, because a majority of everything I learned, I learned by mistakes and bad outcomes. Luck is a joke.
Fair enough, I'm surprised Snopes don't have more info on that, they're usually the place I go to debunk that exact kind of thing.
A lot of my childhood was spent poor.
I remember delivering hundreds of newspapers a day to have enough to eat and scrounging around for bottles and cans to recycle.
My father worked three jobs and my mother two. I now have a great job that provides plenty well for me and mine. Did I work hard to get here? Absolutely. Am I arrogant enough to believe I got here on my own? Not likely. I got to where I am because someone gave me the chance to prove myself. A lot of people are never given said chance. Do I honestly think I work harder now than when I was trudging in the snow with my newspapers? Or do I think that I work harder at my one job than the three my father worked? Again, I work very hard at what I do but I'm not that arrogant.
You can boast of your hard work all you want. But if no one had given you the chance to prove yourself, you'd be working harder in a far lower paying job.
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
Yeah some people can't get jobs because of certain situations which is unfortunate. But on the hurr durr side of things, there are occupiers who say "I can't get a job! - Tweeted from my iPhone" and want to live a lifestyle they can't afford.
It sucks that they get mixed in with people that need real help.
Princess Carl
Member
Out of curiosity are you white?
Thankfully only around 13.1% of the Occupy movement are actually unemployed, at least according to that one particular study anyway.
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
You could also go as far to say "If the person hiring was never born at that specific location and went through a series of certain experiences that led them to work at the company you applied for, you'd be working harder in a far lower paying job."
Both are ridiculous.
Far from it.
Really? Cause I can tell you if that one person hadn't given me a chance to prove myself I wouldn't be where I am.
Having seen my father stonewalled by companies over and over again because of his age and his accent I can pretty much attest to importance of being given the chance. Seeing the tons of college grads out there that can't get a foot in a job furthers the point.
Frankly, I don't see how this is even arguable. Yes, it's up to you to work hard, but someone's gotta give you the opportunity and usually it's more than just one person it's a succession of persons. If no one did you'd be nowhere.
What is this?
Princess Carl
Member
Well then your stance is even more curious. Generalizing an entire group of people and refusing to look past your own personal experiences is something that too many people in the US do and it is really hurting America as a community.
A question?
Yeah sure man, you weren't implying anything.
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
Generalizing? I didn't ask the "are you white" question.
That's a gross overstatement, it was noway near a dozen and that one case of domestic abuse was by far the worst of them. The others were more in the line of "public intoxication" afair.
Sweet, but short-lived reprieve.
Meh, probably still college kids who have been fortunate enough to have a family pay for their toys. That doesn't mess up their message though. They can't get a decent job due to the fuckups of the economy by people who have escaped all blame and consequences.
It's not a simple manner of being too lazy to find one like you mr. bootstrapper, it's anger over the fact that the job market has been made a hellhole by the special interests of the so-called 1%. How the minute amount of money they or their family has was taken away to support same guys who screwed up the economy in the first place.
Issue goes a lot deeper than "lazy folks can't or won't find a job."
You might claim that "the successful" got that way by "cheating the system," but it's obviously false to claim that EVERYONE who is at all successful must have cheated or used some connections or gotten lucky. If someone claims they got far with hard work, there's no need to try and "call them out" on it; that just makes you look ridiculous.
To be frank... I think there was an element of luck in you getting chosen for a particular job, unless you believe you were the only qualified candidate who applied. What you did (rightly so) was work to maximize your chance, to the best of your abilities, to obtain that job. Nothing wrong with that at all, but you still depended upon someone else to make a choice and it could have just as easily not gone in your favor, despite fulfilling all qualifications.
Is anyone in this thread claiming that?
wonderkins
Member
ViperVisor
Member
Yep.
The people who think they are entitled to a system a bit more fair are the monsters.
This seems a little more in tune with the Monster Mash.
April
Despite losses, American Airlines CEO's compensation climbs
This week
American Airlines files for bankruptcy protection
The fucks at the top of the food-chain are the cunts who think they deserve it all. Trophy home. Trophy car. Trophy vacation home. Trophy plane. Trophy yacht. Trophy wife. Trophy schools.
The people who think they are entitled to a system a bit more fair are the monsters.
This seems a little more in tune with the Monster Mash.
April
Despite losses, American Airlines CEO's compensation climbs
This week
American Airlines files for bankruptcy protection
The fucks at the top of the food-chain are the cunts who think they deserve it all. Trophy home. Trophy car. Trophy vacation home. Trophy plane. Trophy yacht. Trophy wife. Trophy schools.
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
They chose based on who would be best for the job, not by throwing a dart at a wall full of all the candidate's pictures. It's not luck, but actions and work by candidates that influence the employer's choice to hire that person.
Douche McBaggins The 3rd
Junior Member
Am I really supposed to take him Carolla seriously? Wasn't he the guy that did The Man Show and his most famous wisdom was "Beer to the Fisherman is like beans to the Mexicans"
Lol Coming from the guy who defended billions of dollars being wasted in a corrupt HSR project in California.
Adam is right and wrong here. Yes this generation is greedy and they have higher expectations than their parents. They should. They live in the wealthiest country in the world. This idea that children should live better than their parents has been going on since the 1920's.
What has changed in the past 30 years is people understanding of wealth. Their seems to be this idea that America is progressively getting poorer when the exact opposite has happened. Income gains for every group in america has rose.
What has changed is the cultural make-up of america family, which was traditionally been the greatest engine of a family's wealth and many of the cultural values of america. Families splintered and broke up, especially among the middle class and poor, slowing the growth of income gains among the middle class and the poor. Poor welfare and public programs having mixed to horrendus results against poverty as Technology and specialization has eliminated many inefficient practices and businesses. This is good for the long term health of a capitalist country, but not necessarily good for the poor who are more likely to work for a inefficient company than a wealthy person.
Hence people bitch and cry for jobs they would have never worked for willingly (NAFTA) or complaining about low skill labor on domestic shores and overseas taking their jobs, while on the other hand supporting companies that are creating tech that will replace their jobs in the future
And as far as luck goes.....yeah you are an idiot if you believe that. Their are so many successful, much less 1% wealthy people in America to blame it on luck, not even taking consideration the fact that just being born in America or being as american citizen is an incredibly lucky thing to be. You are just measuring luck as if you were measuring talent, in which case you are saying you are less talented than some one else. if this is the case why do you deserve more than what you currently make?
This is a extreme difference that left leaning ideologies have compared to others. They see the market as some type of abstraction that just spits out money, and the people who ge tit are either lucky or monsters that claw their way to the front. This is purposely ignoring the connection between creating wealth and gaining wealth. if the rich were lucky they would have gain more money than what they create. Case in point Steve Jobs. What he was paid was small compared to what he directly created, not including the wealth he indirectly created.
Edit: Oh and one place Adam is correct is how Americans seeing the wealthy and/or successsful has totally changed. You can pretend there isn't envy among the OWS crowd. That many children are not taught that wealthy, rich people are immoral and make "more than they should"
because being poorer than someone gives you moral superiority
I can't remember the title, but Malcom Gladwell wrote a book studying a number of 'self made' success stories, and in every single case luck was a huge factor. I'm not saying none of them ever worked hard, but being in the right place at the right time was essential to their success, sometimes even down to what month you were born in.
It's interesting to see how many founders of tremendously successful businesses leave to try to do it again and then just fail, and fail and fail.
Princess Carl
Member
Of course luck is a huge factor. it's a factor in everything. What if I took your Slavik81 challenge. I started a company, it was successfully, i left to start another....and i got hit by a car and died. Was being unlucky a factor or did I not possess the ideas, skill, drive whatever to be successful the second time around?
the problem with blaming luck is that you treat it as a variable that only a select few have. In reality everyone is essentially lucky. That doesn't mean everyone is collectively successful. It's a stupid argument that people peddle to those who feel that whatever their problem currently is has nothing to do with them, and that those who are lucky(successful) are assholes, and probably to blame
The tipping point?
Looking it up, I think it was Outliers.
There is not always a standard, objective measure of "who is best for the job". It ultimately comes down to a decision made by someone else who has to take into account multiple factors. That decision is out of your hands after a certain point. What I'm saying is hard work takes you up to this point, but just hard work alone cannot guarantee you will get that job.
I never said anything about darts, but thanks for extending my argument to a silly conclusion.
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