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[FeiRR]

No way this is going to happen. It would be company suicide. If you are talking about MS sitting back and watching you through the camera.

I don't think it'll work that way. Sending a constant stream of video feed is quite bandwidth taxing, especially with the quality Kinect cameras have. Imagine millions of such streams being transmitted to Microsoft. Even Azure wouldn't be able to handle it and, besides, people would notice immediatelly. There's also a problem with processing, it'd be an impossible task. PRISM deals with text only and they still have problems with fishing out important information. Instead, they can gather information like your viewing/playing habits, reactions to certain key moments in games/ads/live TV (the HDMI-in and IR blaster will let them know exactly what you're watching), your biometric feedback (heart rate, body temperature, facial expressions). They can also program Kinect to recognize key phrases being spoken. That voice data doesn't even have to be sent, it may be processed by that 10% of Xbox One power which is reserved for background tasks (voice-to-text). Then it may be stored on the hard drive (encrypted, of course) to be sent away in a nice, small file at an appropriate moment (for example during overnight updates) to the cloud for further processing. It will be very difficult to prove because your console will connect to Azure anyway and all communication will be encrypted as well. And you know what's the best thing about this way of collecting data? If you walk by a CCTV camera in the street, it may not recognize you. If you write something on a forum, they have to trace you down, which involves a provider. Here there's no need to do so because everything will be related to your personal profile. The best surveillance device ever created. I expect not only advertisers will love it. I also think political parties will be the first in the queue. Imagine how much useful data can such feedback yield during an electoral debate. Priceless.

Disclaimer: Don't read the above as facts. I have no idea if Microsoft is going to do that (although I believe so). It's just my take on the available technology and possibilities it gives.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

It's all a huge social experiment to see how much they can get away with.

Great point. Especially the younger generation who are growing up accustomed to intrusive technology

 

[ObjectiveObserver]

The Sony too posts are hilarious...one would think after all the times it has been wrong people would stop using that..but nope

Yes, I don't really see this claim getting any discussion anywhere either.
MS does something people don't like: "It is okay, because Sony will do it too."
So anything MS does people should just dismiss it automatically to seemingly no end, because surely every company must have the exact same policies, so every time change happens, this change is inevitable? I never understood it. It isn't even a suggestion, it is stated as a fact.. "Companies in the same field must have the very same practices and change them at the exact same time" seems to be the message. What? It really boggles my mind.

It also doesn't help that the two companies have in numerous occasions had opposite business models.. Wait and see, assumptions like this get discussing the matter nowhere. "Innocent until there is reasonable evidence to suggest guilt, and even then don't assume guilt" should be a motto.

Edit: See the post below for the same mistake. Just because Sony could, we shouldn't assume they will.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

The Sony too posts are hilarious...one would think after all the times it has been wrong people would stop using that..but nope

Out of interest. Do you believe Sony would be willing to give up a potential 500k pay day for a few ads because it might piss off a small vocal minority of gamers?

I personally believe that the new UI/dash is designed with advertising/content discoverability in mind, but this isn't about that...it's a genuine question as to your opinion on what Sony would do if presented with the same kinds of money MS are for advertising.

 

[thunder_snail]

LOL.

PS4, that's the one that lets me freely make copies of my games right?

You pay for one copy of a game when you purchase a game. Like all other things you buy.

Online multiplayer is free?

Can't argue with that. Although features that doesn't cost Sony anything are free.

If they push a "security update" that takes away features later on can I decline it and still connect to the network?

Sony of old has taken away OtherOS feature. We'll have to wait and see if they pull that kinda crap again. I highly doubt it though since this Sony seems to have learnt from their mistakes.

No copy protection in it that stops me from playing my own video files, right?

I could go on

You should be able to play any of your video files as long as they are in the right format.

 

[Jotaka]

That only applies in the U.S.

Yet NSA is already doing that at this moment with all data from everybody in the world that use hotmail, google, yahoo etc... If the data is captured in USA soil they are free to do what th hell they want.

 

[LCfiner]

.nvm

 

[HolyBaikal]

Scary sounding stuff. I tend not to be paranoid of this sort of thing, even though I ought to be. I feel like internet strangers would be more likely to want to do me harm than companies. Still, everything seems wrong about the XBOX One. They finally did away with their abusive DRM. But the thing still seems to be loaded down with spyware. I don't think that is going to impress most customers.

Also, for all supposed billions of dollars are used on advertising and spying on internet users in order to better "serve" and sell us products we care about, I feel very poorly catered to. The government and corporations should know very well by now what I'm into and be able to predict my buying patters. And yet I am continually advertised things which I will clearly never buy, along with only a couple things occasionally I have a remote interest in.

And companies still put the region I was born in over my browsing history. If this is for us and companies to better advertise, why do I get such uninformed and stereotypical advertizing?

 

[Tsundere]

Yet NSA is already doing that at this moment with all data from everybody in the world that use hotmail, google, yahoo etc... If the data is captured in USA soil they are free to do what th hell they want.

Not if the data passes through tunnels outside of the U.S.

 

[ChosenPredator]

Great point. Especially the younger generation who are growing up accustomed to intrusive technology

i guess people are becoming used to it with stuff like justin.tv/twitch.tv youtube blogs...some people maybe used toseeing and being on cam all the time lol

 

[GeorgioCostanzaX]

why do they keep letting shit like this be discussed so readily in the public? Maybe they don't have control over that or something, I dunno. But seriously, what fucking consumer wants to hear that a system they're thinking about buying is made for advertisers to jizz over? I mean, in what universe is that an attractive thing to hear about a potential purchase?

It's like "hey guys there's this new awesome TV channel with 2x the amount of commercials! Tune in soon!"

I seriously don't understand what is wrong with Microsoft. The Xbox Division seems fundamentally broken in this generation or some shit.

To be fair Advertising Age isn't exactly a mainstream publication. It's a trade publication read by advertising execs so the article is meant to create interest in advertising on the Xbox One platform not to appeal to consumers.

 

[simplythebest]

If someone finds out Microsoft is violating these policies, I'm sure they've got a moneymaker of a class action on their hands.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

How wrong you are: http://www.advertising.microsoft.com/

Ouch! You set him up for that didn't you?

 

[NullPointer]

Out of interest. Do you believe Sony would be willing to give up a potential 500k pay day for a few ads because it might piss off a small vocal minority of gamers?

If its such a small minority then why not allow people to opt out of the ads entirely?

Most people wouldn't go through the effort, right?

For me its pretty clear that even ad execs know they are being intrusive, and thats why you don't offer the customer a choice to remove or skip those ads. Kinect ads have the potential to be much more intrusive, and invasive, depending.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Wouldn't they just have some system in place that tallies up reactions and then send feedback as X percent of viewers where indifferent to the ad instead of sending back Terabytes of video feed data for people to sift through?

 

[killatopak]

As someone who works on the publisher side of marketing this is indeed my wet dream...as a gamer and consumer this is my worst fucking nightmare.




Marketing me: "holy shit!"

Gaming me: "this is some unholy shit!"

LOL!

But damn. If this is why there were 24 hours DRM check ups and not just about piracy... Unholy shit indeed.

 

[Alx]

For me its pretty clear that even ad execs know they are being intrusive, and thats why you don't offer the customer a choice to remove or skip those ads. Kinect ads have the potential to be much more intrusive, and invasive, depending.

How do you picture those "kinect ads" for them to be so intrusive ? If anything, the only benefit of such a sensor for marketing purpose is not to be intrusive at all (as in "I completely forgot it was there"). You just do your things as usual and the kinect may gather some stats about it.

 

[EBE]

i dont know much at all about advertising or data collection or the legality of a lot of the stuff you guys are speculating about on this thread, but personally im not too worried about the current state of things as it pertains to the Xbox One and Kinect. its a device that will go in my bedroom where i do most of my gaming. theres not much at all in there and im usually the only one playing, so i dont exactly understand how im signing away my privacy or enabling some marketing nightmare. i understand it might not be an agreeable situation for some, but the bigger issues here will be decided at some future date in a more open forum where all can voice their opinion. i dont get how im supposed to be ashamed of myself for wanting a console to play some games.

 

[coolasj19]

Nope, buying and Xbox One is about how much you want to play the games on their platform for $500 and that's how I expect most people buying it see it.

Buying an Xbox One means more than just games, you're buying into everything else the company behind it stands for and you're buying everything they're selling to you that comes with it. Every console purchased is a wallet vote that says "Yes, this is what I want.". What's different between people is what those reasons are and what they scale to in comparison to all the other reasons. These are what 'I' feel and I absolutely know a lot of people don't feel the same way. And damn near nothing anyone can say can convince me that what Microsoft is offering is in any way an all together better package is better than what Sony is offering. And I'll be voting with my wallet by buying one, and getting the people I care about having fun with to buy one too.

 

[Tsundere]

How do you picture those "kinect ads" for them to be so intrusive ? If anything, the only benefit of such a sensor for marketing purpose is not to be intrusive at all (as in "I completely forgot it was there"). You just do your things as usual and the kinect may gather some stats about it.

That's the intrusive part.

 

[TrojanBlade]

This was probably MS's original plan for kinect until their 180 of always online and kinect always connected. But honestly I don't trust MS 1 bit any more after all these reversals. I am betting that once they get the X1 in the homes and people start getting comfortable, they probably would re-enable these 180s with one of the updates with a long terms and condition text with 'I Agree' at the bottom. Who even reads those long T&C notes and most people just click I Agree including myself. They would make it legal since the owner accepted the T&C. Anyways, thats my opinion only time will tell though.

 

[D4Danger]

I'm probably late but the fact that anyone from Microsoft can say

We place great importance on the privacy of our customers’ information and the safety of their experiences

is laughable.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

They don't realize that they're slowly giving all every single inch of their privacy. Some people forget that it's not uncommon to keep their consoles in their room. Can you imagine if you still needed to have it plugged in? The rage would be even harder. The only option left for those who have any interest in Xbone exclusives but not the camera is to buy Kinect and toss it in the corner.

As early adopters we rejected the idea of always on Kinect and MS was forced to pull it. I doubt the average consumer would have had the same level of concern

 

[Miles Quaritch]

If its such a small minority then why not allow people to opt out of the ads entirely?

Most people wouldn't go through the effort, right?

For me its pretty clear that even ad execs know they are being intrusive, and thats why you don't offer the customer a choice to remove or skip those ads. Kinect ads have the potential to be much more intrusive, and invasive, depending.

Because allowing people to opt out impacts the bottom line for the exact reason you mention later in your post. As ads become more intrusive, more people would choose to opt out and eventually you're left with a user-base that can't be exploited...

 

[Alx]

That's the intrusive part.

That's not the definition of intrusive. A device is said to be intrusive if it has some kind of disturbance on the activity of the user. If it is not noticed, it is non intrusive.

 

[Melchiah]

I'd be even more pissed about seeing sports shoved to my face every time I use the system.

 

[Tsundere]

That's not the definition of intrusive. A device is said to be intrusive if it has some kind of disturbance on the activity of the user. If it is not noticed, it is non intrusive.

in·tru·sive
/inˈtro͞osiv/
Adjective
Making an unwelcome manifestation with disruptive or adverse effect.
(of a person) Disturbing another by one's uninvited or unwelcome presence.
Synonyms
obtrusive - officious - importunate - meddlesome

It is disturbing to most people that the device is gathering information about you. Unwelcome to a lot of people, and its disruptive/adverse effects are more than just "interrupting my gameplay experience".

 

[FryHole]

Going by the number of questionable reactions and subsequent bannings in this thread, might it be fair to suspect Microsoft is particularly concerned about this becoming a talking point? It's like the damn bat signal went up or something.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

That's the intrusive part.

That's no different from how cookies or related item promotion work and they aren't considered intrusive by the majority of people.

Cookies gather info about your internet habits and that allows sites to promote content and ads based on those habits, just as Amazon and various other online retailers use your past searches and purchases to recommend you other, related items you might like.

 

[Alx]

Er, it's clearly written in the very definition you provide : "with disruptive, or adverse effect".
It can be unwelcome, but if it doesn't disturb your experience, it is not intrusive. There are other words for that.

 

[Tsundere]

That's no different from how cookies or related item promotion work and they aren't considered intrusive by the majority of people.

Cookies gather info about your internet habits and that allows sites to promote content and ads based on those habits, just as Amazon and various other online retailers use your past searches and purchases to recommend you other, related items you might like.

Do you know what a cookie is?

Er, it's clearly written in the very definition you provide : "with disruptive, or adverse effect".
It can be unwelcome, but if it doesn't disturb your experience, it is not intrusive. There are other words for that.

The disruptive or adverse effect does not have to be immediate. I know you love Kinect, but this is a bit much.

 

[Freki]

A little bit off topic - for people who don't want to be tracked on the websites they visit there's an addon called Ghostery...
Firefox addon
Chrome addon

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Do you know what a cookie is?

...yes.

Perhaps I should have been clearer in that I was referring to tracking cookies and the like.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

A little bit off topic - for people who don't want to be tracked on the websites they visit there's an addon called Ghostery...
Firefox addon
Chrome addon

Or just use the built in private browsing feature in Firefox.

 

[SegaShack]

I think people need to re-read that privacy statement. The system is not going to be watching you and uploading data to anyone, unless you record something (Game DVR). Microsoft would have a major lawsuit if they went against their own privacy statement. They would even face charges from the government for advertising fraud. The people who are giving the quotes are just saying they are optimistic for this to happen, by no means does that equate to this actually happening.

If they ever do change their privacy statement and start doing this, just unhook your Kinect or ethernet cord. Personally, as sad as it is, I don't trust any of my online connected devices. I understand why people don't trust this either. I think MS really needs to control what some of these representatives say. We all remember that Gametrailers interview with Mattrick where he basically disregarded military personnel and said "backward compatibility is backwards." I think from a design standpoint they would not utilize system resources to constantly record video of you and upload it. Especially since games use the Kinect for voice commands or movement, having the Kinect recording and uploading at the same time as this would be a bad idea.

 

[Freki]

Or just use the built in private browsing feature in Firefox.

Doesn't that prevent all cookies? Ghostery is about finding a balance between convenience and privacy, imo.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Doesn't that prevent all cookies? Ghostery is about finding a balance between convenience and privacy, imo.

I believe it does. I haven't used it a while though, so can't be 100% sure if that's still the case.

 

[Tsundere]

Doesn't that prevent all cookies? Ghostery is about finding a balance between convenience and privacy, imo.

It starts a new session without any of your existing cookies and annihilates them once the session is over.

 

[Vanillalite]

 

[killatopak]

What is this... Why am seeing a lot of casualties when I'm only at page 3. What's happening?

 

[Majanew]

Xbox One can essentially work like TV that watches you, bringing marketers a huge new trove of data about what's going on in living rooms, including, as one marketer put it after the speech, unprecedented information about how people engage with TV advertising.

"It could have a big impact on pricing," he said, given Xbox One's capacity for seeing whether people are paying attention or how their bodies respond to the ads, said the marketer, who wasn't authorized by his company to speak for attribution.

Disgusting. Good thing Kinect 2.0 can be unplugged. I'm gonna smash that piece of shit once I get my Xbox One home.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

What is this... Why am seeing a lot of casualties when I'm only at page 3. What's happening?

 

[simplythebest]

What is this... Why am seeing a lot of casualties when I'm only at page 3. What's happening?

 

[andromeduck]

well I, for one, am not playing $500 -> $5/mo for the pleasure of having big brother to watch me 24/7, put ads in my face and sell information about my private life

microsoft can go fuck themselves - the xbox brand is dead to me




I hope sony doesn't get tempted.

 

[eddfromtheriver]

LOL.

PS4, that's the one that lets me freely make copies of my games right?

Online multiplayer is free?

If they push a "security update" that takes away features later on can I decline it and still connect to the network?

No copy protection in it that stops me from playing my own video files, right?

I could go on

No, i won't dignify your post with a response.

 

[QaaQer]

Microsoft aren't alone in this line of thinking. They may be further down the road in implementing it, but it's not like Sony isn't thinking about it as well. In the future you may just have to get used to it, or play on the PC / Nintendo consoles exclusively.

Or steambox, or amazonbox, 'stream'box, or phone/tab-on-tv gaming.

All I know is that MS has some of the greediest and most hubristic executives anywhere. It probably stems from the corporate culture that is cut-throat, paranoiac, and alpha male centric. Further, the fact that they participated with the US govt. and their international spying...well, putting your trust in such a company is just plain stupid and I'm not just referring to gaming.

 

[QaaQer]

why do they keep letting shit like this be discussed so readily in the public? Maybe they don't have control over that or something, I dunno. But seriously, what fucking consumer wants to hear that a system they're thinking about buying is made for advertisers to jizz over? I mean, in what universe is that an attractive thing to hear about a potential purchase?

It's like "hey guys there's this new awesome TV channel with 2x the amount of commercials! Tune in soon!"

I seriously don't understand what is wrong with Microsoft. The Xbox Division seems fundamentally broken in this generation or some shit.

They need to get advertisers excited about this in order to sell their ad platform. You cannot do that in private with NDAs.

Having said that, I'm sure there is lots of juicy info we will never see.

 

[QaaQer]

It always intrigues me how resistant people are to advertising. I use Gmail, I watch television, I buy a lot of things from Amazon, im constantly bombarded by advertisers. I value some of it, like book recommendations, or video recommendations. If the games market explodes with indie titles this gen, I would appreciate Sony or MS recommending titles for me. The ads that bother me are the youtube ads that play videos im forced to watch before the content I selected. If the result of this is a box on my dashboard recommending content, thats great for me, if it becomes forced commercials before loading games or apps, ill squawk.

So you are OK with a a box watching and listening 24/7 while monitoring facial expressions, heart rate, blood flow, arousal level, etc. and feeding all that data to advertisers?

weird.

 

[The Maverick]

I keep saying that Microsoft has a lot riding on the Xbox One, and nobody listens. Microsoft came into the industry because they were afraid Sony would dominate the living room eventually. The Xbox One with Kinect is the tool they plan to use to finally break into owning the living room. They want you to watch TV through it, play games on it, go online on it, all while structuring it so they can tailor advertisements to the user. I'll admit, it's a crafty way to create revenue out of nothing, a la Xbox Live. If this Xbox isn't successful, I can see Microsoft dropping the entire brand and moving on.

They were shooting for the living room when they should have been aiming for domination in the mobile space.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

So you are OK with a a box watching and listening 24/7 while monitoring facial expressions, heart rate, blood flow, arousal level, etc. and feeding all that data to advertisers?

weird.

Wait, it can watch me even if it's not the same room as me?

HOLY SHIT! They've got thermal cameras up in this bitch.