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[harSon]

If you are a bi-racial mix of white and something else, you are still white. Just put that on the form and you're sure to get into a good school.

I'm 50% Black 25% Spanish 25% Japanese. What would I put?

 

[Skiptastic]

that's true, legacy admission is dumb, but luckily, for what I know, it only afflicts the Ivy league colleges, but even now I think those schools are moving away from it

I always kinda wondered if I got into my college because both of my parents went there...then I realized that I got really good grades, kicked ass on the SATs and SAT IIs, and was in the top 10% of my class.

That kinda stopped me from thinking about it.

 

[Star Power]

Yeah, it's not like we weren't killed, subject to electro-shock therapy, beaten, and generally mistreated throughout history. It's not like homosexuality was ever considered grounds for firing anyone, nor was it ever considered a form of mental illness.

Did I say the gay rights movement was without merit/reason? No, I didn't. And I was under the impression that we were talking about this current point in history (because apparently gays are "still oppressed by the government" and other minorities are just lazy).

 

[Tideas]

I always kinda wondered if I got into my college because both of my parents went there...then I realized that I got really good grades, kicked ass on the SATs and SAT IIs, and was in the top 10% of my class.

That kinda stopped me from thinking about it.

you probably got in cuz of your parents hahahah

 

[Count Dookkake]

I'm 50% Black 25% Spanish 25% Japanese. What would I put?

I wasn't being serious. I was mocking the stupid idea that gays can hide themselves to get into a school.

But depending on what you mean by "Spanish" I'd probably go ahead put that down.

 

[way more]

considering gays can still go to the polls, work in the military, get the same type of scholarships as everyone else, and get the same jobs as everyone else

We're talking about the US in this thread. I'm actually not sure what position you are taking. Perhaps a punctuation mark or two would clarify your meaning.

buh? So you're saying that the Afrikaners in South Africa were a majority despite being about 10% of the population? That makes no sense.

You can say that the Afrikaners had a majority of the power, but they were not a majority.

Just to avoid a semantic argument, you are right. Just be aware that when people say white Christian men are the majority in a socio-economic context they mean the ones in power.

 

[harSon]

I wasn't being serious. I was mocking the stupid idea that gays can hide themselves to get into a school.

But depending on what you mean by "Spanish" I'd probably go ahead put that down.

Spain

 

[Count Dookkake]

Spain

That's the right answer. Pick that one.

 

[Skiptastic]

you probably got in cuz of your parents hahahah

;_;

 

[Tideas]

We're talking about the US in this thread. I'm actually not sure what position you are taking. Perhaps a punctuation mark or two would clarify your meaning.

That's a whole other argument that's not meant or has any purpose to do in an AA thread

 

[Dark Octave]

400 years of slavery.

100 years of oppression after that.

40 years of somewhat equality after that.

Sounds like blacks are at the beginning of the healing process if you ask me.

 

[Gaborn]

Did I say the gay rights movement was without merit/reason? No, I didn't. And I was under the impression that we were talking about this current point in history (because apparently gays are "still oppressed by the government" and other minortities are just lazy).

Actually I was directly responding to:

I'm sorry, not being allowed to get married (and get the tax breaks awarded to married couples) doesn't qualify as being "oppressed." It's laughable to compare the gay rights movement to the civil rights movement, the conditions are in no way comparable.

Which, well, is obviously farcical, the gay rights movement is entirely as valid as black civil rights, as you are now saying. I agree with you on affirmative action though, neither group should have a discriminatory advantage because of their skin color or orientation(or both).

 

[Star Power]

For the record, I'm not for quotas and I think that AA needs to be re-tooled (an economic gudeline would be great, and still include lots of minorities as well as lower-classs whites), but to call it a "racist" idea is just wrong.

 

[speculawyer]

What do you think campaigning is about? Obama is successful because his campaign can find and target Obama supporters (or people who can be turned into them) and get them to the polls.

That is what campaigning should be about. Get people interested in your view and excited enough to go out and vote for you.

What it should not be about is creating unecessary hurdles with the goal of excluding certain people from voting and creating fake issues that don't really mean anything with the goal of just getting certain people to vote. It's manipulation of the system. Illegal? Sometimes yes (many laws have been tossed out as unconsitutional), sometimes no. But sleazy? Yes.

 

[WickedAngel]

For the record, I'm not for quotas and I think that AA needs to be re-tooled (an economic gudeline would be great, and still include lots of minorities as well as lower-classs whites), but to call it a "racist" idea is just wrong.

Fortunately, nobody is calling the idea racist. The current implementation is racist.

 

[numble]

that's true, legacy admission is dumb, but luckily, for what I know, it only afflicts the Ivy league colleges, but even now I think those schools are moving away from it

not true.

 

[way more]

Actually, I will say that they have a lesser chance but it's not because of anything outside of the culture of their people (A culture that glorifies the drug trade, disrespect of women, and discourages intelligence). If you're a bookworm in Compton, there isn't much that the government can do about keeping your peers from killing you.

So you think the kid has to fight harder to get to an equal position of a rich, white suburban kid?

 

[Slavik81]

If you are a bi-racial mix of white and something else, you are still white. Just put that on the form and you're sure to get into a good school.

What?
No. If you are any sort of minority, list that instead. There are far more scholarships for minority groups and admissions criteria is never weighted in favor of majority groups.

 

[Count Dookkake]

What?
No. If you are any sort of minority, list that instead. There are far more scholarships for minority groups and admissions criteria is never weighted in favor of majority groups.

To quote Foghorn Leghorn, "You're built too low, son."

 

[Tideas]

For the record, I'm not for quotas and I think that AA needs to be re-tooled (an economic gudeline would be great, and still include lots of minorities as well as lower-classs whites), but to call it a "racist" idea is just wrong.

how does one prove one's economic standing. That's the only thing that I think economic guideline won't work.

Unlike race (skin color) you can't hide, but your parents income, can easily be hidden. Unless the school actually asks for a tax return.

But then again, what does one's economic standing have to do with one's chance to go to college.

It doesn't cost money to take a bus to school. It doesn't cost money to eat school food. it doesn't cost money to get school books. It doesn't cost money to study for a class. It doesn't cost money to take the SAT (you can apply to take it for free if your family is low income in CA).

It doesn't even cost money to apply to college (CA has a fee-waiver if your family is low income).

So low-income can only go so far. Food - there's welfare. Housing - There's government paid housing (they pay half of your rent, you pay half).

 

[Slavik81]

Fortunately, nobody is calling the idea racist. The current implementation is racist.

The idea is racially discriminatory, as is the current implementation.
Neither the idea nor the implementation is racist, though.

 

[Dilbert]

Actually, I will say that they have a lesser chance but it's not because of anything outside of the culture of their people (A culture that glorifies the drug trade, disrespect of women, and discourages intelligence). If you're a bookworm in Compton, there isn't much that the government can do about keeping your peers from killing you. Too successful? You're not "keeping it real" or being "black enough".

That's an awfully sweeping statement to make about black culture.

 

[WickedAngel]

So you think the kid has to fight harder to get to an equal position of a rich, white suburban kid?

Perhaps, but that has nothing to do with racism or the white kid and he shouldn't be limited because of his skin color.

Some of you people act as if every fucking white person is rich and given the world on a platter. It's pretty damned offensive, considering the shit I've had to go through to afford college. Every time a white person is mentioned, it's preceded by the word "rich". The only benefit of being white that I'v e had is a better neighborhood and that has more to do with the region I live in than the wealth of my race.

That's an awfully sweeping statement to make about black culture.

That doesn't make what was said any less true. The culture of ignorance isn't limited to black people but it is compounded by the fact that it is more noticeable due to there being a smaller percentage of young blacks than there are whites. Being smart isn't always a Godsend for whites, either; the difference is that that the argument doesn't become about being true to one's race when it comes up against whites.

 

[Skiptastic]

how does one prove one's economic standing. That's the only thing that I think economic guideline won't work.

It doesn't even cost money to apply to college (CA has a fee-waiver if your family is low income).

I figure the same criteria they use to give you the fee waiver could be used to prove one's economic standing.

 

[guess]

Some of you people act as if every fucking white person is rich and given the world on a platter. It's pretty damned offensive, considering the shit I've had to go through to afford college.

Yet you make a huge generalization about black people.

 

[way more]

Perhaps, but that has nothing to do with racism or the white kid and he shouldn't be limited because of his skin color.

Some of you people act as if every fucking white person is rich and given the world on a platter. It's pretty damned offensive, considering the shit I've had to go through to afford college. Every time a white person is mentioned, it's preceded by the word "rich". The only benefit of being white that I'v e had is a better neighborhood and that has more to do with the region I live in than the wealth of my race.

I think you can generalize a bit more than just "perhaps." Clearly to get out of such a situation you have to be pretty damn special. To get out of the suburbs you just have to be C-average student.

 

[harSon]

Agree 100% to that.



No, it isn't. A motivated person can get themselves out a poor situation, even if they were born into it. You make it sound like there has never been a successful African American.

*Edit*

Actually, I will say that they have a lesser chance but it's not because of anything outside of the culture of their people (A culture that glorifies the drug trade, disrespect of women, and discourages intelligence). If you're a bookworm in Compton, there isn't much that the government can do about keeping your peers from killing you. Too successful? You're not "keeping it real" or being "black enough".

I'm sorry, but that is one of the most ignorant statements I've personally witnessed.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Yet you make a huge generalization about black people.

Regardless whether or not you agree with either generalization, there is a difference.

One is of culture, one is of individuals.

 

[Tideas]

I figure the same criteria they use to give you the fee waiver could be used to prove one's economic standing.

Well, the criteria for that was I didn't have to pay for my lunch food.

And the criteria for not paying for my lunch food was a little form. I only wonder if the crossmatch the parents name with IRS income reports.

watever, you still got into your college cuz of your parents :lol

 

[numble]

how does one prove one's economic standing. That's the only thing that I think economic guideline won't work.

Unlike race (skin color) you can't hide, but your parents income, can easily be hidden. Unless the school actually asks for a tax return.

But then again, what does one's economic standing have to do with one's chance to go to college.

It doesn't cost money to take a bus to school. It doesn't cost money to eat school food. it doesn't cost money to get school books. It doesn't cost money to study for a class. It doesn't cost money to take the SAT (you can apply to take it for free if your family is low income in CA).

It doesn't even cost money to apply to college (CA has a fee-waiver if your family is low income).

So low-income can only go so far. Food - there's welfare. Housing - There's government paid housing (they pay half of your rent, you pay half).

Go to any wealthy suburb in CA, drive around the high school and count the number of SAT and AP prep after-school and tutoring programs. Then ask them if they offer fee waivers.

Ask amazon.com if they offer fee waivers on SAT and AP prep books.

Oh, and for the kids that have to work jobs to help their parents out, ask their schools to offer them a "studying" waiver because they were working when other kids had free time.

 

[Skiptastic]

Well, the criteria for that was I didn't have to pay for my lunch food.

And the criteria for not paying for my lunch food was a little form. I only wonder if the crossmatch the parents name with IRS income reports.

watever, you still got into your college cuz of your parents :lol

Nah, I didn't get in because of them. I got out of it without student loans because of them and my grandparents though.

 

[Dark Octave]

Actually, I will say that they have a lesser chance but it's not because of anything outside of the culture of their people (A culture that glorifies the drug trade, disrespect of women, and discourages intelligence). If you're a bookworm in Compton, there isn't much that the government can do about keeping your peers from killing you. Too successful? You're not "keeping it real" or being "black enough".

Wow. The same for all of your other comments in this thread. Have you ever been to Compton? Do you have any close black friends?

So let's see, you're from the south, you are a gun owner/collector who is all for kids carrying guns in school, and you seem to have some kind of animosity when it comes to black people (from what I can see so far), and a complete missunderstanding of black culture. Everything you're saying sounds like something from a movie, comedy skit, or San Andreas, very generic and stereotypical, which tells me you don't have too many black friends.

I don't wanna wrongfully accuse anybody of anything, I'm just saying...damn. It's all right there.

 

[Star Power]

The "black enough" thing doesn't have to do with being successful or smart, no one says that Cornel West or Michael Eric Dyson or any other number of successful black academics and businessmen are not "black enough", it has more to with with being white-washed.

But honestly, you have no idea what you're talking about and should just stop/

 

[Zeed]

Until Affirmative Action is based on economic status and not race or gender, I will oppose it.

If the measure we use to try to offset the effects of discrimination is inherently discriminatory, have we really made any progress?

 

[Andokuky]

Good, AA is stupid anyway.

 

[Tideas]

Go to any wealthy suburb in CA, drive around the high school and count the number of SAT and AP prep after-school and tutoring programs. Then ask them if they offer fee waivers.

Ask amazon.com if they offer fee waivers on SAT and AP prep books.

Oh, and for the kids that have to work jobs to help their parents out, ask their schools to offer them a "studying" waiver because they were working when other kids had free time.

You're probably talking to the wrong person dude. I took the SAT out of a whim. Didn't study at all for it.

As for AP, I didn't really study that much either except for AP US History and Physics. All my AP tests I just studied from using the books the school gave me.

And if u're living in a wealthy suburbs, chances are, you don't need fee waivers. But go to an inner city schools, and there's a TON of resources to help you, most if not all are free.

As for your comment about working while going to school, I guess most college students should get an A in all their classes then?

 

[WickedAngel]

I'm sorry, but that is one of the most ignorant statements I've personally witnessed.

You know, I see you and others making vague complaints about the statement but none of you are making any attempt to truly contest it in any factual way. Perhaps you would like to explain "black culture" and give examples of how it's something other than what I said, despite the fact that fewer blacks graduate, more blacks commit crime, and many black communities are overwhelmed by drugs and criminality. If there is some uplifting message to work hard, go to school, and stay away from drugs that is being sent to young black people by their peers, how are many black people stuck in these awful situations?

 

[Dilbert]

That doesn't make what was said any less true.

Well, the problem with what you said is that it implies that "black culture" is some monolithic thing...which can't possibly be true since not everyone who identifies as "black" even comes from the same cultural or geographic background.

 

[Star Power]

Until Affirmative Action is based on economic status and not race or gender, I will oppose it.

You don't see how white men may, possibly, have an advantage? The term "glass ceiling" doesn't exist for nothing you know. AA is flawed but it is in many ways necessary...

 

[Slavik81]

But then again, what does one's economic standing have to do with one's chance to go to college.

It's a lot harder to do well in highschool when you have to work to support your family, or if you have to take a bus to the library to type up your essays... among other things.

Economic standing is quite important. As is the family attitude about school. If your parents are more concerned about other things and don't care about your schooling, you're not going to do well. It really takes active parental involvement for schooling to work, and if the parents are worried about other things (including how to afford the rent next month, or trying to afford a house in a neighborhood without shootings), the marks suffer, and chances of going on to University drop.

 

[harSon]

You know, I see you and others making vague complaints about the statement but none of you are making any attempt to truly contest it in any factual way. Perhaps you would like to explain "black culture" and give examples of how it's something other than what I said, despite the fact that fewer blacks graduate, more blacks commit crime, and many black communities are overwhelmed by drugs and criminality.

I'm not going to bother educating someone with such horrifying ignorance.

 

[Dilbert]

Also, the meat of this was nailed early on: This is a thinly-veiled attempt to influence turnout in the November elections by putting a wedge issue on the ballot.

 

[way more]

Until Affirmative Action is based on economic status and not race or gender, I will oppose it.

If the measure we use to try to offset the effects of discrimination is inherently discriminatory, have we really made any progress?

You don't see the inherent disparity of pay and promotions between genders?

 

[WickedAngel]

I'm not going to bother educating someone with such horrifying ignorance.

That's about the level of response I expected.

I'm sorry that the prevailing black culture isn't one that is conducive of success but that doesn't make what was said any less true, nor does it place the blame on anyone but black people themselves.

 

[Gaborn]

You don't see the inherent disparity of pay and promotions between genders?

How much of that is inherent discrimination, and how much of it is women leaving the workforce in, say, their mid 20s and early 30s on maternity leave while male colleagues are getting promotions?

 

[Skiptastic]

You don't see the inherent disparity of pay and promotions between genders?

Oh no. What have you done?

bailout.jpg!

 

[Count Dookkake]

You don't see the inherent disparity of pay and promotions between genders?

Pay disparity numbers are iffy.

Not sure about promotions.

 

[Tideas]

It's a lot harder to do well in highschool when you have to work to support your family, or if you have to take a bus to the library to type up your essays... among other things.

Economic standing is quite important. As is the family attitude about school. If your parents are more concerned about other things and don't care about your schooling, you're not going to do well. It really takes active parental involvement for schooling to work, and if the parents are worried about other things (including how to afford the rent next month), the marks suffer, and chances of going on to University drop.

But just because you're working doesn't mean it's an excuse to get a hand-out. I know plenty of people who worked while in HS and still made it out fine. Hell, it just made them a tougher person.

And, as for the parents involvement, the government does so much to help low-income family make ends meat it's not even funny.

And it goes back to parents. Sure, you can spend 23 hours worrying about next month's rent, or how to get food a week from today, but all you need is 1 hour to encourage your kid to work hard, and know in the end it'll be all worth it.

Hell, my parents didn't even spend an hour, haha. More like 10 minutes

 

[Zeed]

You don't see how white men may, possibly, have an advantage? The term "glass ceiling" doesn't exist for nothing you know. AA is flawed but it is in many ways necessary...

There are wealthy black families who have every opportunity that their white equivalents do, yet under the current system their children are offered advantages over poor and disadvantaged kids who happened to be born the wrong minority.

It's a good idea with good intentions but a fucking retarded execution. It needs to be based on economic status, not skin color. You're right in that many, if not most black families are disadvantaged in this country. This way, they would still reap the benifits of AA.

You don't see the inherent disparity of pay and promotions between genders?

Intrinsic in our institutions and supported by the government? No, not at all. Are there unscrupulous employers who treat women unfairly? Of course. Is the answer to create an institutionalized system that discriminates against all individuals born with a Y chromosome? Fuck no.

 

[Dark Octave]

That's about the level of response I expected.

I'm sorry that the prevailing black culture isn't one that is conducive of success but that doesn't make what was said any less true.

Maybe if you knew anything about black culture other than what you've seen from Boyz in the Hood.