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[harSon]

That's about the level of response I expected.

I'm sorry that the prevailing black culture isn't one that is conducive of success but that doesn't make what was said any less true, nor does it place the blame on anyone but black people themselves.

Would it be a fair assessment to say White culture consists of enslaving, bigotry, and pillaging?

 

[WickedAngel]

Maybe if you knew anything about black culture other than what you've seen from Boyz in the Hood.

Yet another vague, childish response that does nothing to dispute the reasoning behind the apparent disadvantage that African Americans are in. Nothing if not consistent.

Would it be a fair assessment to say White culture consists of enslaving, bigotry, and pillaging?

White people are succumbing to these issues on a regular basis?

 

[way more]

And it goes back to parents. Sure, you can spend 23 hours worrying about next month's rent, or how to get food a week from today, but all you need is 1 hour to encourage your kid to work hard, and know in the end it'll be all worth it.

WTF?

Well if you are rich then you can spend 5 hours a day encouraging him and prepping for the SAT's.

You sound like a damn First Lady.

 

[numble]

You're probably talking to the wrong person dude. I took the SAT out of a whim. Didn't study at all for it.

As for AP, I didn't really study that much either except for AP US History and Physics. All my AP tests I just studied from using the books the school gave me.

And if u're living in a wealthy suburbs, chances are, you don't need fee waivers. But go to an inner city schools, and there's a TON of resources to help you, most if not all are free.

As for your comment about working while going to school, I guess most college students should get an A in all their classes then?

It doesn't matter what you personally did--I went to a public high school and didn't take prep courses either.

I wounded up going to a college thats ranked within the top 3 in the US (per US News), and it was amazing to find out that basically 40% of the kids there went to private high schools or boarding schools with tuitions that were $25,000-40,000.

Look up the stats at the top ranked colleges and you'll see that there are similar percentages. Now part of it is legacy, but most of what I saw came about because rich kids can afford to get the resources to help them excel and play the game correctly. Oh, and they weren't working in college (or high school) either.

I will guarantee you that the resources afforded at a $35,000 per year prep school far exceed the "ton of resources" that an inner city kid is able to receive.

 

[Zeed]

Really I think I've established time and time again on this forum that I'm vehemently against racism in all it's forms.

This is one of those forms.

It's not even a matter of "reverse-racism" or whatever you want to call it, because other minorities are being hung out to dry as well, not just whites. I cannot sympathize with an inherently bigoted system, which is what this is.

 

[harSon]

Really I think I've established time and time again on this forum that I'm vehemently against racism in all it's forms. And this is one of those forms. I cannot sympathize with an inherently bigoted system.

It needs reforming, not complete abolishment. Once it's gone I really doubt it's ever reinstated.

 

[Zeed]

It needs reforming, not complete abolishment.

Again, ideally it would be based on economic status, which would make it a good measure and I think a necessary one. However as things stand now it is morally repugnant to me and completely unconscionable.

 

[Skiptastic]

I will guarantee you that the resources afforded at a $35,000 per year prep school far exceed the "ton of resources" that an inner city kid is able to receive.

Agreed, but would that inner city kid not also receive the benefits of affirmative action if it were based on socio-economics? And how many of those kids do not receive the benefit because they are not in the groups that get the current affirmative action benefits?

Look, life is always going to be harder and more challenging for poor kids than it is for rich kids. There will be less opportunity and more temptation to do the wrong things. But it isn't just poor blacks or Latinos that go through this. It's all poor people, regardless of race. That is why I feel affirmative action that takes race into account isn't really worthwhile.

But, as I've said, it's not like the white kid that doesn't get into Harvard knows a black kid with "less aptitude" is getting in. It's just a scapegoat that is foolish and misguided. Take some fucking responsibility.

 

[diffusionx]

That's not really my problem and it shouldn't be something that our country models hiring policies around. The best person for the job should get the job; there isn't anything else that should matter in the job market.

That's not the way it works, though. Ever. The best person for the job doesn't always get the job, in fact if I had to guess I would say the best person does not usually get the job. This is not because of affirmative action.

There's a reason why there are sayings like "it's all about who you know" and "networking is the most important thing". It's because you could be awesome but if nobody knows that it is irrelevant. It's also because if you are buds with someone with some power they could get you into a far better job than you deserve. Black, white, it doesn't matter.

I think affirmative action (and I *hate* that phrase, its so politically loaded by now) does help minorities with this, by opening doors for minorities in these good jobs it expands the networks of people. In this sense it is helping minorities do what white people have been doing since the dawn of time, and that is helping their friends get good jobs. Maybe sometimes its better jobs than they deserve, maybe most of the time its a job that should've gone to someone else but, again, its how things are.

I don't think AA is perfect, far from it, but I do think it is necessary in one form or another.

Well, hey now, the minorities didn't do so bad. Asian Americans increased by almost 1.7k, Latinos increased by 200, African Americans dropped off by 200.

Considering the racial makeup of California, I must say that minorities did terrible! Asian Americans and whites are vastly overrepresented in the UC system while blacks are vastly underrepresented. These are all things that have gotten much worse over the past decade.

The split is also among class lines too (I went to a UC so I am familiar with these numbers). Over the past decade the median and average income for UC enrollees has gone way up. It's actually something that has happened in many state schools, which really should be a cause for tremendous concern.

 

[numble]

Agreed, but would that inner city kid not also receive the benefits of affirmative action if it were based on socio-economics? And how many of those kids do not receive the benefit because they are not in the groups that get the current affirmative action benefits?

Look, life is always going to be harder and more challenging for poor kids than it is for rich kids. There will be less opportunity and more temptation to do the wrong things. But it isn't just poor blacks or Latinos that go through this. It's all poor people, regardless of race. That is why I feel affirmative action that takes race into account isn't really worthwhile.

But, as I've said, it's not like the white kid that doesn't get into Harvard knows a black kid with "less aptitude" is getting in. It's just a scapegoat that is foolish and misguided. Take some fucking responsibility.

Hey, no argument there--I haven't really said anything about race in this thread, just sort of arguing on this socio-economic tangent that has developed. I think an AA where socio-economics is the primary base, but where other issues also may be allowed to come into play, might be best, and I'm sure it opens up a whole other can of worms.

 

[Kitschkraft]

I could care less if whites "resent" it...the system is in place to curb TRUE economic and societal inequality, not to help peoples feelings.

 

[Dark Octave]

Yet another vague, childish response that does nothing to dispute the reasoning behind the apparent disadvantage that African Americans are in. Nothing if not consistent.

Maybe it is vague and childish, but it's also true I believe. When your pops tells you to get ready to go hunting this weekend, instead, go out and meet some black people to hang out for a couple of weeks. You need your eyes opened so that when you do the same with your mouth, something that makes sense will actually come out.

 

[Zeed]

I could care less if whites "resent" it...

Again it's not just white people that are victimized here.

I think what you're trying to say is "I don't care about anyone BUT blacks and Hispanics." In which case good sir, please fuck off and go to hell with all the other racists.

the system is in place to curb TRUE economic and societal inequality

Except it does neither, but rather promotes them.

 

[WickedAngel]

That's not the way it works, though. Ever. The best person for the job doesn't always get the job, in fact if I had to guess I would say the best person does not usually get the job. This is not because of affirmative action.

There's a reason why there are sayings like "it's all about who you know" and "networking is the most important thing". It's because you could be awesome but if nobody knows that it is irrelevant. It's also because if you are buds with someone with some power they could get you into a far better job than you deserve. Black, white, it doesn't matter.

I think affirmative action (and I *hate* that phrase, its so politically loaded by now) does help minorities with this, by opening doors for minorities in these good jobs it expands the networks of people. In this sense it is helping minorities do what white people have been doing since the dawn of time, and that is helping their friends get good jobs. Maybe sometimes its better jobs than they deserve, maybe most of the time its a job that should've gone to someone else but, again, its how things are.

I don't think AA is perfect, far from it, but I do think it is necessary in one form or another.

Poor white people (And other poor minorities) don't have any more access to quality networking than poor African Americans so that still doesn't justify the exclusion based on race.

It doesn't matter what you personally did--I went to a public high school and didn't take prep courses either.

I wounded up going to a college thats ranked within the top 3 in the US (per US News), and it was amazing to find out that basically 40% of the kids there went to private high schools or boarding schools with tuitions that were $25,000-40,000.

Look up the stats at the top ranked colleges and you'll see that there are similar percentages. Now part of it is legacy, but most of what I saw came about because rich kids can afford to get the resources to help them excel and play the game correctly. Oh, and they weren't working in college (or high school) either.

I will guarantee you that the resources afforded at a $35,000 per year prep school far exceed the "ton of resources" that an inner city kid is able to receive.

The problem is that some people are implying that all whites have access to the types of things you listed by default. I worked 40 hours per week on third shift and went to school from 8AM~1PM, Monday~Thursday. I don't know many rich people that had to pay for their cars, their auto insurance, their health care, and their health care. I'm not complaining; I've had a good life. But my good life had nothing to do with my race and everything to do with having a decent environment. The fact that a lot of the black people that fail are born into bad conditions isn't my fault, nor should I be limited by that fact. Their failure doesn't make my problems any less troubling, nor does me working my ass off to afford to go to school make me a "rich" kid who has had everything handed to him on a platter.

If you're anything aside from being rich or brilliant, you're going to have to work your ass off to succeed. It doesn't matter what race, color, or gender you are; you can't count on anyone to help you but yourself.

Maybe it is vague and childish, but it's also true I believe. When your pops tells you to get ready to go hunting this weekend, instead, go out and meet some black people to hang out for a couple of weeks. You need your eyes opened so that when you do the same with your mouth, something that makes sense will actually come out.

And more speculation as to the type of friends I have and the type of life I live. It's true, I only have a few black friends. What exactly am I supposed to see from their world that I'm not seeing? We go drinking, play football, or play videogames. I'm not sure what you're wanting me to see; the types of black kids I am hanging out with have already done a lot of what they needed to do to succeed (Did well in highschool, didn't get into trouble, got into college). They're not the kinds of disadvantaged people we're talking about here (Except for being black and, in one case, homosexual).

 

[way more]

Except it does neither, but rather promotes them.

It think lessoning the prevalent racism is more important that worrying about the minor inequalities it promotes. It's the greater evil vs the smaller one.

If you're anything aside from being rich or brilliant, you're going to have to work your ass off to succeed. It doesn't matter what race, color, or gender you are; you can't count on anyone to help you but yourself.

Didn't you say that is was likely that an inner city youth would have to work harder to obtain the same standing as a average child of the suburbs? I think a spectrum is necessary when looking at the challenges people overcome.

 

[laserbeam]

It think lessoning the prevalent racism is more important that worrying about the minor inequalities it promotes. It's the greater evil vs the smaller one.

Your not solving anything if your creating inequalities to try and stop inequalities.

 

[Zeed]

It think lessoning the prevalent racism is more important that worrying about the minor inequalities it promotes. It's the greater evil vs the smaller one.

Creating institutionalized racism does not lessen existing racism, and it's ridiculous to propose so. In fact, if anything it heightens racial tensions and gives racists ammunition in spreading their hatred.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

It think lessoning the prevalent racism is more important that worrying about the minor inequalities it promotes. It's the greater evil vs the smaller one.

Kind of depends on who your asking as to whether or not those inequalities are considered, "minor"...

Now I'm going to pose this question, in reference to, "lessening the prevalent racism": When do we stop? Who decides when the scales are balanced?

 

[WickedAngel]

Didn't you say that is was likely that an inner city youth would have to work harder to obtain the same standing as a average child of the suburbs? I think a spectrum is necessary when looking at the challenges people overcome.

The "average child of the suburbs" isn't the "rich, white suburban kid" that you were arguing for earlier.

 

[Count Dookkake]

I am reminded of the phrase "eternal war for eternal peace."

 

[diffusionx]

Poor white people (And other poor minorities) don't have any more access to quality networking than poor African Americans so that still doesn't justify the exclusion based on race.

You're right, but that doesn't mean we should do nothing because the policy fails to cover 100% of the people who need it. And I believe AA does apply to minorities besides blacks in most instances, at least federally.

 

[The Faceless Master]

maybe it's because i'm black and fro the caribbean, and not afro-american, but really, AA needs to go.

it's a bad solution for a bad problem.

 

[way more]

Your not solving anything if your creating inequalities to try and stop inequalities.

Then you are talking an absolute position. Is rampart unregulated racism better than the lessor enforced racism? Is the two children who die from viral vaccinations better than the thousands that would untreated? I say yes but you might say that any death created by inoculations mean that it should be scrapped.

Now I'm going to pose this question, in reference to, "lessening the prevalent racism": When do we stop? Who decides when the scales are balanced?

I don't know. Hopefully the American people could decide but looking at the past the dominant power never notices an injustice they cause.

 

[Zeed]

Then you are talking an absolute position.

Which is appropriate, because this is an absolute moral issue.

It's racist. Hence, it's wrong. Period.

 

[WickedAngel]

You're right, but that doesn't mean we should do nothing because the policy fails to cover 100% of the people it could help. And I believe AA does apply to minorities besides blacks in most instances, at least federally.

I'm not suggesting doing nothing, though. I'm supporting what was suggested earlier in that the system should transition from race-based exclusions to socioeconomic exclusions.

 

[Kitschkraft]

Again it's not just white people that are victimized here.

Whites, blacks, asians, whoever....."feelings" have very little to do with the quantitative and symbolic aspect, that is affirmative action.

The justification for AA is completely quantitative, you CAN'T break people down into subgroups (Black, rich, poor, white, etc), quantitize their situation, and then try and deconstruct that very quantitive evidence of inequality.

Also, most people don't even understand AA, it's an AFFIRMATION, it's in the fucking title, and most just completely ignore it. It's an affirmation from the government to the people that all

I think what you're trying to say is "I don't care about anyone BUT blacks and Hispanics." In which case good sir, please fuck off and go to hell with all the other racists.

Go to hell you piece of shit, I said nothing of the sort.

Except it does neither, but rather promotes them.

????


Yes, there is quantitative evidence showing that the tides have turned, whites are now the most systematized oppressed group in america....:lol, AA has completely shifted the economic, political, and cultural foundations of this country.

 

[way more]

Which is appropriate, because this is an absolute moral issue.

It's racist. Hence, it's wrong. Period.

You don't see more racism as worse then less racism? You're saying that racism is bad but that nothing should be done to combat it.

I'm not suggesting doing nothing, though. I'm supporting what was suggested earlier in that the system should transition from race-based exclusions to socioeconomic exclusions.

Ok. But what if we do that and the boundaries of who qualifies remain virtually unchanged?

 

[Zeed]

Is the two children who die from viral vaccinations better than the thousands that would untreated? I say yes but you might say that any death created by inoculations mean that it should be scrapped.

Aside from that being a really poor analogy, what you're trying to do right now is rationalize racism by saying it's acceptable because it's for the greater good. I don't buy that. I believe in a few absolute moral evils, and discrimination based on race is one of them. It is unacceptable in every form, including this one.

You don't see more racism as worse then less racism? You're saying that racism is bad but that nothing should be done to combat it.

If in order to combat an evil, you yourself establish an evil system, can you really claim to be any better? Unlike you I'm not trying to rationalize racism. It's inappropriate to utilize, no matter what your goal is.

 

[way more]

Aside from that being a really poor analogy, what you're trying to do right now is rationalize racism by saying it's acceptable because it's for the greater good. I don't buy that. I believe in a few absolute moral evils, and discrimination based on race is one of them. It is unacceptable in every form, including this one.

If that were true you would consider AA one of the most effective ways to combat it.


I still stand by that analogy. We inoculate a 1000 children and two will die. But hundreds will never take ill and die themselves. We've chosen the lessor of two evils.

 

[Zeed]

If that were true you would consider AA one of the most effective ways to combat it.

Have you been listening?

AA in its current form is racist. Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, it's off the fucking table.

 

[Kitschkraft]

If in order to combat an evil, you yourself establish an evil system, can you really claim to be any better? Unlike you I'm not trying to rationalize racism. It's inappropriate to utilize, no matter what your goal is.

The semantics of the argument mean very little, once again, inequality is a quantitative issue.

AA, at worst, can be described as a crube, simple way to deal with inequality.

"Rationalize racism".....their is very clear economic and social indicators behind the defense of AA, unless you can prove that equality has been gained in the country, I really don't see where you're coming off calling shit "evil".

I wonder if your hatred of many of the CAUSES behind the NEED for AA is also as fervent.

 

[Zeed]

AA, at worst, can be described as a crube, simple way to deal with inequality.

No, at worst it can accurately be described as racist, discriminatory, bigoted, and therefore evil.

"Rationalize racism".....their is very clear economic and social indicators behind the defense of AA

Most of which are valid, if only applied in a socioeconomic fashion rather than a racial one.

unless you can prove that equality has been gained in the country

This is a total red herring, like me claiming "unless you can climb Mount Everest, you are wrong".

I wonder if your hatred of many of the CAUSES behind the NEED for AA is also as fervent.

Are you serious? Do you not usually pay attention when I speak on topics of race? Check my post history buddy. I think deep down you harbor the idea that anyone who disagrees with AA must be in some way be a racist. It's astounding to me that your head is so far up your ass that you can't comprehend the idea that AA is in itself racist, and therefore morally repugnant to any objective observer.

 

[WickedAngel]

The semantics of the argument mean very little, once again, inequality is a quantitative issue.

AA, at worst, can be described as a crube, simple way to deal with inequality.

"Rationalize racism".....their is very clear economic and social indicators behind the defense of AA, unless you can prove that equality has been gained in the country, I really don't see where you're coming off calling shit "evil".

I wonder if your hatred of many of the CAUSES behind the NEED for AA is also as fervent.

There is no possible way to defend the current implementation of AA that excludes other disadvantaged people as anything other than being racist.

If you guys keep this up, someone is going to be tempted to do the quintessential dictionary.com citation of racism.

 

[Kitschkraft]

No, at worst it can accurately be described as racist, discriminatory, bigoted, and henceforth evil.

I honestly do not want to get into the semantic arguments surrounding the issue.

I would argue that racism is only a system of racial subjugation, and nothing more. However, judging by your stance on this, I highly doubt you would ever look seriously into race theory, and the like.

I really don't care what people describe it as, for the last time, we are dealing with pure facts here.

Most of which are valid, if only applied in a socioeconomic fashion rather than a racial one.

The correlation between race and inequality is stronger the the correlation between people in general and inequality.

And as I was trying to get at before, AA is based on groups, not individuals, as it should be. Your perspective seems to imply that we are somehow going to lift every single people out of poverty in this country. My perspective implies that we will rid this country of racial inequalities existing between whites and blacks (And no, I'm not leaving out other groups, just don't feel like typing out some intricate list), and that every group of people in this country will finally have it's fair share of the pie.

This is a total red herring, not like me claiming "unless you can climb Mount Everest, you are wrong".

Sure, if you take it out of the context in which it was posted....:lol

I hate fallacies, and care not about them. However, you seem to be calling something "evil" because of it's implementation, while I'm saying that it's not evil because of it's end goals....it's fucking stupid semantics, and the topic is too important to focus attention on crap like this.

Are you serious? Do you not usually pay attention when I speak on matters of race? Check my post history buddy.

I like eating pie, but when it comes down to it, I would not give flour to a bakery.

 

[Zeed]

Your perspective seems to imply that we are somehow going to lift every single people out of poverty in this country. My perspective implies that we will rid this country of racial inequalities existing between whites and blacks

No, your perspective implies that the advancement of a select few groups at the expense of all others somehow equates with equality.

you seem to be calling something "evil" because of it's implementation, while I'm saying that it's not evil because of it's end goals...

So the ends justify the means? Okay.

I like eating pie, but when it comes down to it, I would give flour to a bakery.

Alright, here's where I stop reading your posts.

If you're going to call me, of all people, a racist because I don't share your narrow and frankly bigoted view of this issue, then please have the balls to say it outright. Don't try to be all subliminal about this shit.

 

[darscot]

AA is such a damn joke. I'm your average white guy but if this was the other way around I would be fucking insulted. It's straight calling other races lesser. If some one said to me oh your white we don't expect you to have the same grades as a black guy I'ld be pissed. How anyone every thought this was a good thing I will never understand.

 

[Kitschkraft]

There is no possible way to defend the current implementation of AA that excludes other disadvantaged people as anything other than being racist.

The economic disparity between races is more refined (Once again, the correlation is important) and culturally important (People who want to pretend that slavery, jim crow, the assassination of black leaders, the reagan years, etc etc etc don't matter can go fuck themselves, this shit is beyond policy. It SUCKS that there is poor whites and poor asians, I feel for them, honestly, I don't wish bad things on anyone and I want to see everyone uplifted, however, I feel that the country is OBLIGATED to itself to see this racial shit through, it's just how it should be) then the economic disparity between individuals.

Blacks are 15 percent of the country? They should own 15 percent of the GDP, be 15 percent of the elected leaders, have 15 percent of the fucking businesses, etc etc etc. Thats what AA is about.

If you guys keep this up, someone is going to be tempted to do the quintessential dictionary.com citation of racism.

Racism obviously has many aspects to it.

I could call you a racial slur when your walking down the street, and that would be racist.

I could also call you an inferior being, less intelligent or less strong, and that would also be racist.

And of course, I could systematically make sure that you and people like you never reach your full potential, never get on the same level of "my people", never grant money to districts of my city to area's where your people reside...and that would also be racist.

Some of these things affect feelings and are out in the open, others go under the radar and are laughed at when brought up and chastised as being "baiting" or "whining".

 

[way more]

Are you serious? Do you not usually pay attention when I speak on matters of race? Check my post history buddy.

I like eating pie, but when it comes down to it, I would give flour to a bakery.

If you're going to call me, of all people, a racist because I don't share your narrow and frankly bigoted view of this issue,

What the hell does that mean??? Was he calling you a racist with that pie remark? I'm so confused.

 

[Zeed]

I'm your average white guy but if this was the other way around I would be fucking insulted. It's straight calling other races lesser. If some one said to me oh your white we don't expect you to have the same grades as a black guy I'ld be pissed.

The problem with your rationale is that it assumes that grades have a one to one ratio with intelligence or effort. Slavery and years of institutionalized racism left a legacy of poverty that still widely affects black communities today. The fact is that many blacks are disadvantaged, they are given fewer opportunities and resources, and considering that this is largely a direct result of our country's greatest evil I think we do have a responsibility to address it.

However, the answer to racism should never be more racism, and for that reason I will not support systematically disadvantaging whites and other minorities just to correct wrongs done to one minority. AA is an incredibly flawed (read: EVIL) approach to what is a very legitimate problem.

What the hell does that mean??? Was he calling you a racist with that pie remark? I'm so confused.

It's a simple analogy. He was saying that I might have some deeply held racism, but in order to advance it I'm willing to fake indignation over smaller racial matters.

I'm asking him to have the guts to say it in plain english so that I can add him to the ignore list.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Blacks are 15 percent of the country? They should own 15 percent of the GDP, be 15 percent of the elected leaders, have 15 percent of the fucking businesses, etc etc etc.

This isn't really true.

 

[harSon]

This isn't really true.

It should be.

 

[darscot]

Slavery and years of institutionalized racism left a legacy of poverty that still widely affects black communities today. The fact is that many blacks are disadvantaged, they are given fewer opportunities and resources, and considering that this is largely a direct result of our country's greatest evil I think we do have a responsibility to address it.

As long as people (and thats any people) use the past as a reason why they are down, they will stay down. Everyone has to eventually just man up and go after what they want. If you a physically able body human being your capable of success. Your past or current situation or the color of your skin has bugger all to do with it.

 

[harSon]

As long as people (and thats any people) use the past as a reason why they are down, they will stay down. Everyone has to eventually just man up and go after what they want. If you a physically able body human being your capable of success. Your past or current situation or the color of your skin has bugger all to do with it.

Some of you are quite delusional.

 

[Count Dookkake]

It should be.

No. We are not socialists. A population does not get it's share by proportion.

 

[Kitschkraft]

What the hell does that mean??? Was he calling you a racist with that pie remark? I'm so confused.

I edited my remark, it was missing the word "not" earlier.

I'm implying that the man can shout against racism all he pleases, but when it comes to an issue where he and his ilk might actually have to sacrifice a bit...he is under-par.

Whites (And once again, possibly other groups as well, don't want to leave anyone out again...:lol) seem to think that everything is okay as long as they personally don't have to "take a hit"...I'm sorry, but equality in this country is not going to just appear out of thin fucking air, (Especially not in the recession economy of Bush!).....it would have to come at a loss to something, and that will most likely be from the groups of people where the power and money are the most unproporionately concentrated....

I notice that many whites seem to look at this issue as though whites have their bucket, blacks have their bucket, and all we need to do is fill in the black bucket with more water to even things out. No, it's more like, we all share a cooking pan, and the white side of the cooking pan has all the ingrediants on it, we need to spread them ingrediants out more evenly, otherwise, our lazagnas going to come out all lopsided and shit.

 

[harSon]

No. We are not socialists. A population does not get it's share by proportion.

I'm saying African Americans should be in a position to do so. I'm not saying we should redistribute the wealth to make it so.

 

[WickedAngel]

It should be.

...so you're supporting the act of mandating ownership/success and you had the audacity to call me ignorant? Wow.

No. We are not socialists. A population does not get it's share by proportion.

This.

 

[Zeed]

As long as people (and thats any people) use the past as a reason why they are down, they will stay down.

Uh, what? The past is a legitimate reason that they are "down". To claim otherwise flies in the face of both fact and logic.

It should be.

No, see, here's another problem. You all keep thinking in terms of race - In your world, everything needs to be proportional according to race. In mine, everything should be based on merit. Give everyone as equal a footing as possible, and then let shit sort itself out. That's how it should be.

The minute you start saying "so and so is making too much money for an {insert race here}" you have racial oppression all over again.

 

[Absinthe (Permed)]

Instituting a system of guaranteed racism to combat the possibility of racism is a bad idea and should have never been made a policy. Affirmative Action is wrong.

Exactly.

 

[harSon]

...so you're supporting the act of mandating ownership/success and you had the audacity to call me ignorant? Wow.

Read above asshole.