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After this, I don't understand how anyone can possibly defend Nader

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Alcibiades

Member
xsarien said:
You're kidding yourself if you actually think we can force feed democracy to a country that, up until last year, lived under a strict dictator. Democracy needs to come about by itself, "installing" it is a very dangerous proposition that can backfire big time.

I wasn't in favor of the war in Iraq if that is what you are implying, and I agree democracy is better off as a grass-roots installation...

so basically, I agree with everything you say, but I also don't expect Middle-Eastern governments and people to show any favor to America until the environment changes (the hardcore mullahs, the teaching that Jews are pigs & evil when kids are little, our dependence on oil, etc...)...
 

Alcibiades

Member
Mad Hatter said:
man... their views seem so diametrically opposed... Why vote for Nader?

their views only seem that way if you see a 2-party/2-view/liberal-conservative/left-right view to everything, but I just look for what I like, and I don't like Kerry, and to be honest, I don't even know where he stands because of all the flip-flopping

I like Nader because:

-against corporate welfare (like bailing out the airlines)
-against the government regulating people's behavior
-against tax shelters for corporations
-stong support for the environment (animals and rainforests) and supports Kyoto
-supports better vehicle and fuel regulation (pollution and safety-related)
-supports affirmative action
-would genuinely support renewable energy

I like Bush because:

-I'm against abortion
-I support the war on terror
-I support flat-tax system (not that he does, but he is a tax-cutter)
-I support the State of Israel's right to exist
-sympathetic to the toils of Mexican immigrants (having lived on the border while he was governor of Texas)
-doesn't render to much control of US policy/affairs to the UN

I DON'T like Kerry because:

-the way he would steal Dean's speeches and methods outright without any guilt
-his flip-flopping makes me wary of anything he says, especially if it's a totally different position than he had before
-could't stop mentioning Vietnam during the primaries...
-I don't support partial-birth abortions


so basically, this is just a small example, my views on different issues lie all over the map (for example, I don't like Ralph Nader's support of a woman's right to choose), but basically I average everything out and basically, Kerry was a douchebag during the primaries, I doubt that has changed now that he isn't going up against Dean... I'm sure I agree with something genuinely with Kerry, but I don't know if he is something I particulary like leading our country...

My support for Ralph Nader is more of an admitted protest vote because I think the environment should be a major issue (as can be seen in The Day After Tomorrow) and I'm a fan of his consumer-advocate ways. Actually, if Kerry were to make a big deal out of the environment, commit to Kyoto 100%, and say that he can guarantee using Alaska's oil as we work to cut our dependence on foreign oil by 10-15% under him, maybe by giving MAJOR incentives to hybrid manufacturers or something, I'd vote for him in a heart-beat, but basically I see him as the same as Bush on this issue, any difference is negligable that I don't notice it...

It's not a black and white world, and it's not a Kerry/Bush world, or a Democrat/Republican world, I think Bill Clinton did a good job as President (with the exception of the terror issue), I'm usually a big supporter of Democrats (in fact my whole town is basically a Democratic strong-hold), I always vote in the Democratic primary (so I guess I'm technically a registered Democrat), but I just call it as I see it...



edit: BTW, I'm not a Mexican immigrant (my parents are, though) or have it hard compared to others or anything like that, but considering they are the people in the community I live in and certainly to be considered "brothers" in a sense, I supportive of Bush initiatives for a guest worker program...
 

fart

Savant
efralope said:
I like Nader because:

-against the government regulating people's behavior

I like Bush because:

-I'm against abortion

I think the environment should be a major issue (as can be seen in The Day After Tomorrow)
oh god, KKKOMEDY INCOMING

i don't even know where to start on that post. oh wait, i just did! i also like the save the environment/drill in alaska stuff, that was gold.

CONTRADICTIONS LET ME TOUCH YOU
 

Alcibiades

Member
fart said:
oh god, KKKOMEDY INCOMING

i don't even know where to start on that post. oh wait, i just did! i also like the save the environment/drill in alaska stuff, that was gold.

CONTRADICTIONS LET ME TOUCH YOU

Well, I don't want them drilling in Alaska, but

US Oil > Saudi Oil any day...

of course, this is just a start, we should go renewable, solar, etc... little by little...

I don't want our economy rocked either, but I'm sure there are clever and innovative solutions out there that wouldn't happen if the corporate oil interests didn't hold so much power in US politics...


edit: of course, by people's behavior, I mean private/consenting, as in "in the bedroom"...

I consider a fetus to be a life, in which case that changes everything...

I do want the government regulating people's lives when it comes abusive parents, neglecting kids, people outright harassing others, etc...

I don't want them regulating the private decisions of two (or more) adults (and no, an unborn fetus doesn't count as an "adult")...
 

firex

Member
well, it's good to know that Nader has the "GA posters that wish they were a Jedi" voter demographic locked up.
 
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