That's fine. I'd feel sad, too. That's why I would prefer if we attacked the issue from a different angle, like more education, more and better contraconceptive methods. Prevent acts of rape by educating the newer generations better, and try our best to prevent unwanted pregnancies instead of trying to deal with the issue when it already happened.
After threats, wife of anti-abortion GOP lawmaker goes public about own abortion
- Thread starter Dram
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That's fine. I'd feel sad, too. That's why I would prefer if we attacked the issue from a different angle, like more education, more and better contraconceptive methods. Prevent acts of rape by educating the newer generations better, and try our best to prevent unwanted pregnancies instead of trying to deal with the issue when it already happened.
TheRagnCajun
Member
I don't see how exposing a woman's choice many years ago to have an abortion that she now regrets exposes anything hypocritical about her position on abortion, nor her husbands for that matter. It's not that far-fetched to imagine that her passion is born out of her own personal experience where she believes she made the wrong choice. I think its sad that some are trying to use her hidden past as some kind of a scandalous "GOTCHA!" moment, and that it likely has more to do with her husbands political career than it has to do with the abortion debate.
ClosingADoor
Member
Sure, do those things too. But funny thing, Republicans in America are also against that education and more accessible contraception.
And people will always make mistakes or can become a victim of rape. They deserve a choice.
There is no magical way of ending an abortion with rainbows. They are killing a fetus. And as others have said they are doing it in the way that is safest for the mother.Read my previous posts. It's not really the dismemberment, but the act of killing it. To me, it sort of sounds like "Fuck you, we already made it into the world, we are already out here, and we are not allowing you to come."
But again, that's kind of just me.
I know.
It is disturbing to me too, but I also believe in a woman's right to choose. I would rather the woman make that choice for herself instead of the government interfering.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to support or be vocal about pro-choice/life laws, that's not my intention. Whatever women want to do, let them do it. I just don't like it, but I have never attacked (Or will never attack) a woman who decides to get an abortion.
I just don't like the act of killing a fellow human being. That's all. Other than that, people can do what they see fit in their lives.
I agree with that. However as I said, I would like for us as a society to actually be able to prevent unwanted pregnancies instead of taking a life because we don't want it around.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
This has and will always be a poor arguement but anyway. The need for Abortion Clinics is obvious it's an optional procedure even if you were devoutly pro life the goal should bviously be education of whatever arguments you have not complete removal of the choice.
GurgleBot20
Member
But the very suggestion of a line implies that this is sort of a "black and white" situation. Once that line is crossed, does the the woman suddenly not have the right to her own body?
Still, what I was referring to is that it's kind of hypocritical to call your-self pro-choice and then object to the method in which an abortion is performed.
And also seem to have the mentality that the most important period of that human's "life" is when it is inside the womb because they are also for less social services. It's such a wonderful platform! /s
I think everyone can agree on that. But that is a pretty hard place to get to.
Women talking about miscarriages more openly, as emotionally difficult as it is, would help people understand better what goes on during pregnancy and how it can go wrong so easily.Having a second trimester abortion is not something people undertake for trivial reasons, it's due to medical necessity in a vast majority of cases.
Would you really want doctors to have to open women up for a c-section for a dead or improperly developed fetus? That's horribly traumatic and unnecessary on someone who's already grieving the loss of a wanted pregnancy.
Would you really want doctors to have to open women up for a c-section for a dead or improperly developed fetus? That's horribly traumatic and unnecessary on someone who's already grieving the loss of a wanted pregnancy.
This seems like a story better left alone; unless she was running for political office herself.
Otherwise she's just another hypocrite; I don't like the idea of politician husband and wives being under the same microscope their spouses are under. And even if she were a politician her medical past should be private.
Otherwise she's just another hypocrite; I don't like the idea of politician husband and wives being under the same microscope their spouses are under. And even if she were a politician her medical past should be private.
I know. It will be hard as fuck. It may take centuries. But my utopian side would love to see something like that some day. I definitely cheer for the idea of contraception, more education, a more civilized society. I hope the day comes when men and women can enjoy their sexuality freely and safely without having to go "whoops! Pregnant! Let's just get rid of it" like if it was nothing.
LiquidSword
Member
It's not a gotcha moment. She was lucky enough to have the choice. Now she is actively working against other women having a choice. Regardless of whether or not she thinks it was a wrong choice for her, she had it.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
That's belittling the issue.
No, it's not. I recognize the situation is not ideal today. I said I hope the time comes when there's no need to kill our own kin because "it will ruin our lives".
ClosingADoor
Member
Nobody is thinking like that. These are major life decisions and nobody is making them easily. They impact people for their whole life.
BlackGoku03
Member
Yeah but remember, this is the second trimester. That's about 3 and a half months into the pregnancy. I'm not a big fan of abortions that late but there are always cases where the woman didn't know or other circumstances preventing them from doing it earlier.
Oh well. It's not a pretty procedure no matter how it's performed, but I still believe it's up to the one carrying the baby and the guy who helped make it.
Anyway, the OP is full of hypocrisy. "I did it, but I personally didn't like it. So here are some bullshit words of comfort. And remember, do as I say and not as I do!"
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
No, it's not. I recognize the situation is not ideal today. I said I hope the time comes when there's no need to kill our own kin because "it will ruin our lives".
I quote
that's belittling the issue.
Ehh... I would love to think like you. But I know quite a few people who did just that. "I got pregnant, I don't want it because I want to keep being free and without responsibilities, I'll just get rid of it".
It happens. I know it's not an ideal or perfect world, but it does happen.
I think I would agree with a termination of pregnancy if the mother's life is truly in danger, and she wants to survive. But not because of "I just want to keep having fun".
How so?
TheRagnCajun
Member
And if she didn't choose, she still would have made a choice /Rush
It doesn't make her a hypocrite.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
You don't know shit about this subject.
Enlighten me instead of being a jerk.
cpp_is_king
Member
Call it an "area" instead of a line then. There are already tons of examples in life where people do not have control of their own bodies. Suicide is illegal, drugs are illegal, there are lots of things you cannot do to your own body, particularly when they affect or infringe upon the lives of other people.
So I don't think it's hypocritical at all. The only problem is determining when life begins. If somehow all the pro-choice people spontaneously agreed that life began at conception, then there would be no more debate because you simply don't have the right to choose to murder someone.
So the "line" now is currently drawn somewhere else. Is it hypocritical to call yourself pro choice while saying that abortions should not be allowed while a woman is in labor? What's your position on that? You have your own personal line about when abortions should be performed, and presumably for you it's black and white. For me it's not, I don't think the fetus instantly becomes human one moment, I think it becomes human over a period of time, and I don't see why its rights shouldn't reflect that.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
People have been doing it the whole thread. You still keep calling fetuses and dependent cells in a woman's body "human beings."
ClosingADoor
Member
I'm sorry, but the way you make light of this issue is just disgusting to me.
This stuff has major impact on people and is not taken lightly. Unless you are the one making the decision, it is better not to judge others for it.
Just because you might know a few people who act like it was no big deal (because you can not read their minds and know their true feelings about it) does not make it that everyone does also.
So far I haven't seen a single good argument to not call a fetus a human being.
Okay, I see you are getting upset, and that was not my intention. So I'll just leave the thread.
Link
The Autumn Wind
Yeah, I'm calling bullshit on this. I wish people could just admit they are against something without making up hyperbolic anecdotes.
Poltergust
Member
You make it as if people think that getting an abortion is a trivial thing.
Women go through a lot of emotional trauma getting an abortion. It's not an easy choice under any circumstance.
Dash_Riprock
Member
A conservative being a hypocrite? Shocking.
Also funny to see so many of you falling for Ishida's concern trolling.
Also funny to see so many of you falling for Ishida's concern trolling.
LiquidSword
Member
I read your post like five times and can't understand what you are saying. I don't think you understood my post either.
Disengageing...
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
The morning after pill is just so, an abortion is not pilly pally, snip, snap and the fetus is gone.
CornBurrito
Member
She's hardly a hypocrite. She had an abortion, felt an extreme amount of regret and guilt, and then stuck to being pro-life after that.
How is learning from past mistakes and wanting other people not to repeat them hypocritical?
*I'm pro-choice.
adamsappel
Member
I double-dog dare you to even vaguely suggest to a woman who has had an abortion that she treated that decision like it was nothing. I think you are being naive more than sexist, but you are really approaching that line.
The only moral abortion is my abortion
Edit: didn't see Ziffles' post.
Speaking of a need for more education! Just because you happen to know a couple of people who treat abortion as flippantly you do does not mean most women don't actually treat it as a serious life-changing decision.
FriedConsole
Banned
I don't see why people should pressure a wife of a lawmaker to come out about her rape and abortion. Some things should be left alone. This is very similar to public shamings conservatives want to do to women that have abortions. If you want people to agree with your side, don't look like a monster. This person isn't even the one making the laws and is only married to someone who is. Some people feel if they have a different opinion they deserve to be treated inhumanely.
Simply Sarah
Member
This is pretty much my view as well. It would be hypocritical to have such an abortion now given her current stance on things but the idea that you can't change your mind on something after you've experienced it is bizarre. Double given the fact that she was just a kid at the time and had just been raped.
If she believes that it's the wrong choice (in general, not just for her), it's entirely consistent for her to want that choice denied to people. Like a recovering heroin addict would support keeping heroin illegal.
"I did this, it was a mistake. I don't want others to make that same mistake I did. I don't think it's ever the right choice to make."
Come at it as nanny-stating if you want, maybe contrast it to her opinions on healthcare or something, but on its own it's not a hypocritical stance to take.
LiquidSword
Member
Okay fine, so not a hypocrite. She just has no empathy for a woman who might be in a situation like she was. Glad we got that cleared up.
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
Did you just compare getting an abortion to using heroin?
I've seen some stupid analogies over the years but this one takes the cake.
Simply Sarah
Member
Except that's not the case here. She says it was a mistake and she accepts that it was sinful. She's not excusing herself at all beyond the standard (if at times inconsistently applied) Christian concept of forgiveness through Christ
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
I loathe these people so much. They want to deny other women the freedom of choice that they used, either out of hypocrisy or because they regret their own choices.
Fuck them.
I once had chocolate ice cream and thought it tasted vile, so now I'm campaigning to have it banned.
That doesn't make me a hypocrite, but I'm still an asshole.
Alcoremortis
Member
I view the issue less about whether or not a fetus is a human being and more on whether or not any US citizen should be forced or prohibited from undergoing a medical procedure, even if it's for the good of another.
We live in a society where dead organ donors have more indisputable patient rights than living pregnant women. Which is absurd.
We live in a society where dead organ donors have more indisputable patient rights than living pregnant women. Which is absurd.
That doesn't appear to be true, either. She at least professes empathy, you just disagree with her on how best to channel that empathy into action.
AzureRonin
Member
Why do people care so much about what other people are doing? Everyone has to validate their own decisions by forcing them on to others.
adamsappel
Member
And yet they deny funding for pre-natal care for the precious little fetuses.
She's not a hypocrite only if she allows other women a mulligan like she took.
kame-sennin
Member
"Wait, you mean this brain surgeon wants to cut out a part of my BRAIN?!!".
It's a surgical procedure. Like most surgical procedures, it's pretty gross. It's also the safest (for the mother) and most humane (for the fetus) method performing an abortion. The only reason pro-lifers want it banned is because that's one less means of performing an abortion.
I look forward to next year's ban on "lethal abortions".
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