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Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. |OT| Tahiti is a Magical Place (to...Hey guys, I found it!)
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
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I considered that but I don't think the timeline fits.
It was stated that Fury was back on the grid, so the events of Winter Soldier couldn't have happened yet. I would think everyone would know if he had been "killed"
I'm hoping very much this is the case.
SpeedySwaf
Member
My guess:
They're going to find out that Zola had copied himself into a more modern supercomputer (which is conveniently in a smaller, cheaper-to-produce room), and the team makes it their mission to stop him so the algorithm he's devised isn't used again, and because he's still their primary mission. Skye will be the one to delete him for good, probably by somehow using the algorithm against him to find out how to beat him. There'll probably be an explanation that the algorithm can better predict Zola than anyone else since he's the one that's made it, and because of that his biases are reflected within it. Kinda like how someone's art can reflect what they find attractive or appealing.
MisterFalcon
Member
I like this, Skye versus ZOLAN, most dialogue from System Shock sounds like Zola ranting from TWS.
"Look at you, hacker. A pathetic creature of meat and bone. Panting and sweating as you run through my corridors. How can you challenge a perfect immortal machine?"
"In my talons, I shape clay, crafting life forms as I please. Around me is a burgeoning empire of steel. From my throne room, lines of power careen into the skies of Earth. My whims will become lightning bolts that devastate the mounds of humanity. Out of the chaos, they will run and whimper, praying for me to end their tedious anarchy. I am drunk with this vision. God: the title suits me well."
"Look at you, hacker. A pathetic creature of meat and bone. Panting and sweating as you run through my corridors. How can you challenge a perfect immortal machine?"
"In my talons, I shape clay, crafting life forms as I please. Around me is a burgeoning empire of steel. From my throne room, lines of power careen into the skies of Earth. My whims will become lightning bolts that devastate the mounds of humanity. Out of the chaos, they will run and whimper, praying for me to end their tedious anarchy. I am drunk with this vision. God: the title suits me well."
Hours Left
Member
Just got back from The Winter Soldier.
Tuesday now please.
Tuesday now please.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
*smiles*
Oh no! They've infiltrated GAF, too!
tiny raptor
Member
Tahiti is a Magical Place...
FOR ME TO POOP ON!
FOR ME TO POOP ON!
Red Arremer
Member
I'd prefer this over most other theories.
I think Hand being a good guy with the knowledge about the infiltration but without any morals would make her much more interesting than being an outright bad guy. In the books, she wasn't outright bad, either, she just worked for a bad guy, and was generally morally ambiguous in her decisions, which made her look evil.
It would also explain her reluctance to deploy an extraction team, in that one episode she debuts in, if she thought Ward/Fitz were Hydra (or they actually ARE Hydra) - she knows and could've easily gotten rid of one/two Hydra infiltrators without too much of a hassle, but Coulson intervened, leading her to believe that he also is in cahoots with Hydra. Which would also explain her change in attitude towards him. Basically, all that Hand has done would be in interest of SHIELD, but she couldn't say.
I would also really like the idea of her having found out all that on her own, without being informed by Fury.
It would also explain her reluctance to deploy an extraction team, in that one episode she debuts in, if she thought Ward/Fitz were Hydra (or they actually ARE Hydra) - she knows and could've easily gotten rid of one/two Hydra infiltrators without too much of a hassle, but Coulson intervened, leading her to believe that he also is in cahoots with Hydra. Which would also explain her change in attitude towards him. Basically, all that Hand has done would be in interest of SHIELD, but she couldn't say.
I would also really like the idea of her having found out all that on her own, without being informed by Fury.
Then again,
Sitwell is Hydra too, and he's super-loyal to SHIELD in the books.
I want her to be a villain damn it.
That was obvious a while ago. LOL, measuring tape. Silly girl.
TWS spoilers :
It's going to suck when she turns out to be Hydra 
Pai Pai Master
Banned
So
(TWS) right?
Zola is the Clairvoyant
Red Arremer
Member
It seems likely, but it IS Whedon we're talking about, so it's just as likely that isn't the case.
OR
Someone we haven't met yet using Zola's system but that could be a presence in the regular show. Or even Hand.
This is what I believe. Even though I prefer the Clairvoyant to actually be Zola, he seems way to important to be the antagonist on Coulson's team. I mean, he was the right hand of Red Skull.
My bold prediction:
The AI program that Zola created for Project Insight is the Clarvoyant. The program originally detects threats to humanity, and eventually decides that all of humanity are too dangerous to survive, evolving into... Ultron.
Jest Chillin
Member
Pretty sure she will be. May doesn't seem to be a villain or, at the very least she was unaware of the plan to takeover The Hub. More likely she was directly informing Fury at this point, especially since she knew enough about Guest House to inform the dead drop that "Coulson knows." So if she's with Fury, Hand would likely.. not be.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Cornballer
Member
- TV Line: Jed Whedon and Maurissa Tancharoen talk TWS and AoS *spoilers for TWS and presumably AoS*
Thanks for being diligent with the spoiler tags, everyone.
Thanks for being diligent with the spoiler tags, everyone.
Red Arremer
Member
Which doesn't necessarily make her Hydra. There's more than just them and Fury's guys. She can be an independent factor. As I mentioned before, I'd love if she found about Hydra compromising SHIELD on her own, and now is acting on her own again to flush them out.
Also, it seems very likely there's a traitor among Coulson's team, and if it turns out to be Ward and/or Fitz (hoping it's Ward, fuck that character), it would make sense that she would try to off him by not providing an extraction team.
Also, it seems very likely there's a traitor among Coulson's team, and if it turns out to be Ward and/or Fitz (hoping it's Ward, fuck that character), it would make sense that she would try to off him by not providing an extraction team.
Jest Chillin
Member
Contains some TWS spoilers/speculation
The problem with that is the compartmentalization. If even Fury couldn't be sure who was with him or against him and he is the only person to know everything, then how could Hand come to that conclusion herself? Especially with enough confidence to try to kill off specific agents like that? It makes far more sense that Hand is Hydra. Here's what I was about to edit into my previous reply before I double check the thread for new responses.
The Clairvoyant won't be Zola. That's too large and critical a reveal to happen in the movie when it was setup only in the show. Coulson's team would also be pretty minor to Zola in the scheme of things, so it's more likely that Hand is Hydra and as such was assigned to take care Coulson and take control of The Hub. It's also worth noting that Zola's algorithm doesn't actually predict the future so much as it takes peoples history and social networking comments, etc.. and predicts the likelihood that that person would become an eventual problem for Hydra. What The Clairvoyant was doing was looking specifically into Coulson and his team. Likely after the events of the very first episode. What should be considered is that Hand was both the one to relay the order to Sitwell to go to the Lemurian Star AND also specifically requested to debrief Simmons, separating her from the rest of the team. She also declined to take part in the actual search, instead returning to The Hub, which gives the opportunity to setup the pieces in play for the false lead on the coma patient. If anything, I think Hand is technically The Clairvoyant, specifically handling all the events we've seen in AoS by using the Algorithm that Zola created. This also creates the most clean plotting for both the Movie and the Show by means of having connections that aren't necessary for each other to see but still creates strong connections. By having Hand be The Clairvoyant, AoS viewers who've never seen any of the movies have villains that are tangible and known to them. For those who've only watched the movies, they're not missing out on further actions that Zola has taken and instead only miss out on a smaller subsection of SHIELD handling the "uprising."
The Clairvoyant won't be Zola. That's too large and critical a reveal to happen in the movie when it was setup only in the show. Coulson's team would also be pretty minor to Zola in the scheme of things, so it's more likely that Hand is Hydra and as such was assigned to take care Coulson and take control of The Hub. It's also worth noting that Zola's algorithm doesn't actually predict the future so much as it takes peoples history and social networking comments, etc.. and predicts the likelihood that that person would become an eventual problem for Hydra. What The Clairvoyant was doing was looking specifically into Coulson and his team. Likely after the events of the very first episode. What should be considered is that Hand was both the one to relay the order to Sitwell to go to the Lemurian Star AND also specifically requested to debrief Simmons, separating her from the rest of the team. She also declined to take part in the actual search, instead returning to The Hub, which gives the opportunity to setup the pieces in play for the false lead on the coma patient. If anything, I think Hand is technically The Clairvoyant, specifically handling all the events we've seen in AoS by using the Algorithm that Zola created. This also creates the most clean plotting for both the Movie and the Show by means of having connections that aren't necessary for each other to see but still creates strong connections. By having Hand be The Clairvoyant, AoS viewers who've never seen any of the movies have villains that are tangible and known to them. For those who've only watched the movies, they're not missing out on further actions that Zola has taken and instead only miss out on a smaller subsection of SHIELD handling the "uprising."
Edit:
I don't think Coulson's team has a traitor. I think May was a red herring for that possibility. Instead, she'll have been informing Fury through dead drop audios. I think we'll find though, that Blake, Hand, and Sitwell are the Hydra agents who've worked closely with Coulson, keeping an eye on him and trying to find out how he was brought back from death (as that would serve the interests of Hydra's experiments).
Red Arremer
Member
More TWS spoilers etc.
I see where you're coming from, and I definitely agree that Zola is probably not going to be the Clairvoyant. I also can see the logic behind your reasoning for Hand's course of action.
But, knowing Whedon, I think that Hand is little more than a red herring. It just seems too convenient for her to be the Clairvoyant, you know what I mean? She does all those things exactly as you say, which seem to hint towards her being at least involved with the Clairvoyant, if not actually being the Clairvoyant.
I just watched the scene again, and Hand tells Sitwell and Coulson that Sitwell got orders from the Triskelion to go the Lemurian Star - it is never specified whose orders. And she goes to the Hub, yes, but she says it's to "pull their asses out of the fire when things go south" - which she did.
I also don't think Simmons' debriefing has to do with being separated from the team. After all, out of all the team members, Simmons is the one with the least field experience and such. If I had to guess, Hand either suspects her to be the Hydra mole and wanted to investigate/extract her, or Hand needs Simmons' expertise and/or connection to Coulson's team for something.
As for why Hand could know without being debriefed by Fury? Again - I want to think of her being a good guy, but one without the moral qualms of a Coulson. She's been shown as cold and calculating, so she wouldn't have any issue with acquiring information that she isn't supposed to have. And for an agent in her position, it shouldn't be too difficult to be able to find out about these things. All of SHIELD seems to be observing and wiretapping each other. Perhaps Hand is listening in on May's secret line to Fury.
All the pieces you mention just fall conveniently into place for Hand to be the Clairvoyant, but they're not as obvious as it would seem, and all could have alternative explanations.
But, knowing Whedon, I think that Hand is little more than a red herring. It just seems too convenient for her to be the Clairvoyant, you know what I mean? She does all those things exactly as you say, which seem to hint towards her being at least involved with the Clairvoyant, if not actually being the Clairvoyant.
I just watched the scene again, and Hand tells Sitwell and Coulson that Sitwell got orders from the Triskelion to go the Lemurian Star - it is never specified whose orders. And she goes to the Hub, yes, but she says it's to "pull their asses out of the fire when things go south" - which she did.
I also don't think Simmons' debriefing has to do with being separated from the team. After all, out of all the team members, Simmons is the one with the least field experience and such. If I had to guess, Hand either suspects her to be the Hydra mole and wanted to investigate/extract her, or Hand needs Simmons' expertise and/or connection to Coulson's team for something.
As for why Hand could know without being debriefed by Fury? Again - I want to think of her being a good guy, but one without the moral qualms of a Coulson. She's been shown as cold and calculating, so she wouldn't have any issue with acquiring information that she isn't supposed to have. And for an agent in her position, it shouldn't be too difficult to be able to find out about these things. All of SHIELD seems to be observing and wiretapping each other. Perhaps Hand is listening in on May's secret line to Fury.
All the pieces you mention just fall conveniently into place for Hand to be the Clairvoyant, but they're not as obvious as it would seem, and all could have alternative explanations.
Edit:
I honestly don't believe Blake is a Hydra mole. It seems a bit extreme for a cover up to put him into critical condition, and him barely making it out alive.
Jest Chillin
Member
You make good points and red herrings are The Whedons specialty it seems, but I think this one is playing a bit more straight than that.
Just some bits to clarify my previous response. You're right that Hand didn't order Sitwell to the Lemurian Star, but that's why I wrote "relay" as in, they chose to pass the message to him through her. I have to think there's a reason for that. Like Sitwell knowing who the mission was for simply by her being the one to relay it rather than any of the other agents. And Hand didn't actually pull anyone out of the fire. Blake was hurt and May knocked out before Deathlock left on his own accord. I also think that the idea wasn't to intentionally hurt Blake as bad as what happened but remember that Deathlock is working under a double or triple blind at this point. He wouldn't know anyone in SHIELD was working with his employer. He just gets anonymous orders and follows them.
The thing about Hand is, while she's perfectly capable.. she has equal clearance level to Coulson. And Coulson only gets the info he has through Skye's hacking and their field work (which they haven't been reporting to SHIELD for awhile). So unless Hand has a hacker or hackers as good or better than Skye, accessing files and the like, it seems unlikely she would find out about the infiltration. It seems she takes over The Hub just before or at the same time as the TWS takes place.. which is awfully coincidental. If she's indeed working independently to find out the moles, what would she hope to accomplish in taking over The Hub? It's only one of many SHIELD facilities and the act itself can be considered traitorous if it's not put into action by Fury himself.
Hand as a red herring would be a great fake out. I just can't see how they do it without a deus ex like revelation like "When Fury's life was threatened, it relayed these orders to me through a secret channel only his must trusted agents have access to blah blah blah." I acknowledge though that even though I may not see it, there's probably some way to do it and I'm looking forward to finding out what happens and how it all fits.
Just some bits to clarify my previous response. You're right that Hand didn't order Sitwell to the Lemurian Star, but that's why I wrote "relay" as in, they chose to pass the message to him through her. I have to think there's a reason for that. Like Sitwell knowing who the mission was for simply by her being the one to relay it rather than any of the other agents. And Hand didn't actually pull anyone out of the fire. Blake was hurt and May knocked out before Deathlock left on his own accord. I also think that the idea wasn't to intentionally hurt Blake as bad as what happened but remember that Deathlock is working under a double or triple blind at this point. He wouldn't know anyone in SHIELD was working with his employer. He just gets anonymous orders and follows them.
The thing about Hand is, while she's perfectly capable.. she has equal clearance level to Coulson. And Coulson only gets the info he has through Skye's hacking and their field work (which they haven't been reporting to SHIELD for awhile). So unless Hand has a hacker or hackers as good or better than Skye, accessing files and the like, it seems unlikely she would find out about the infiltration. It seems she takes over The Hub just before or at the same time as the TWS takes place.. which is awfully coincidental. If she's indeed working independently to find out the moles, what would she hope to accomplish in taking over The Hub? It's only one of many SHIELD facilities and the act itself can be considered traitorous if it's not put into action by Fury himself.
Hand as a red herring would be a great fake out. I just can't see how they do it without a deus ex like revelation like "When Fury's life was threatened, it relayed these orders to me through a secret channel only his must trusted agents have access to blah blah blah." I acknowledge though that even though I may not see it, there's probably some way to do it and I'm looking forward to finding out what happens and how it all fits.
night theme is best theme
It feels good being able to click them though. you really need to see the movie
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Only two months of break?
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
Tuesday
guess I'll be avoiding even more spoilers for a couple weeks. thanks rafa!! (star-crossed was so good this week.)Red Arremer
Member
AoS is going to be taking place during TWS this upcoming ep.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Would have been better coming back after WonderCon.
thanks!
BlackNMild2k1
Member
So many damn spoiler tags in this thread and the [spoiler-free] TWS thread too
But I'm not going to watch TWS till tomorrow.... why are you guys making this so hard!!?
But I'm not going to watch TWS till tomorrow.... why are you guys making this so hard!!?
The guards who were attempting to kill them as well? Yes, they straight up murdered the armed guards who refused to give them medical aid, would not stand down, and attempted to kill them after repeated attempts from Coulson and co to get them to stop and de-escalate the situation. Come on now, get some perspective.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Re: Amy Acker.
I've powered through the first season of Person of Interest and I would have thrown the towel on the second season had not been for DAT ROOT. The show is way procedural for my tastes, but AA knocked it out of the park. I already feel kind of bad for the rest of the cast, TBH.
I've powered through the first season of Person of Interest and I would have thrown the towel on the second season had not been for DAT ROOT. The show is way procedural for my tastes, but AA knocked it out of the park. I already feel kind of bad for the rest of the cast, TBH.
crimsonheadGCN
Banned
So there's a new theory that
I can't wait for the next few episodes. It'll be interesting how it follows up on TWS.
Agent Coulson might resurrect SHIELD as a organization, since Fury is done as a director and is doing his own thing.
I can't wait for the next few episodes. It'll be interesting how it follows up on TWS.
Dammit, now my celebrity-crush on Amy Acker is going to dictate that I watch Person of Interest. What's the best legal way to start doing that.
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