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[Jedi2016]

Streets of Rage 2 is a much better looking game than Skyrim, for instance.

That's highly subjective, I don't know if you'll get a lot of people to agree with you on that one.

At sub-4K resolutions a GTX680 will lock Battlefield 3 paired with a decent processor.
At 4K resolutions a GTX680 will atleast 30fps it.

Even at 2560 x 1440 which is still quite a rare resolution Battlefield 3 is locked at 60 on a 680, 670 and probably a 660ti and i mean on absolute Ultra even though MSAA is quite a waste in BF3.

At 1080p a GTX680 will triple digit Battlefield 3.

I'm not sure about those numbers. My 680 can push BF3 at only around 70-80fps at 1080p, with a i7-2600K @ 3.4GHz. Which is fine for me, since my monitor only pushes up to 60, but it's not triple-digit.

 

[UrbanRats]

I haven't played the series. Sounds like a gimmick, just like the tech demo that spawned this thread. But perhaps that somehow evolves gameplay for you, it's very subjective.
-
I totally agree! My posts in this thread are recognizing the trend away from triple-A, unsustainable budgets, to the exact models from which your post draws inspiration-- gameplay-focused, not graphics-technology focused.

You'll never be convinced, because you select whichever innovation related to technology and deem it gimmicky (or ignore it to begin with).
And yeah, the fact that developers can still deliver, on powerful HW, little games, means that technology increase is not evil in any particular way.

 

[gutterboy44]

I doubt that-- you'd just scale the concept down to use graphics that are at a sustainable budget level. Which, in turn, would run on older hardware.

And would in turn be a lower quality, less enjoyable game. You seem to be imposing your rose colored nostalgia glasses across the board, that it is a fact that all 16 bit games are more beautiful than Dear Esther or any other vividly rendered 3d environment. Moreover, that somehow graphical fidelity and gameplay are always a trade off and never work in tandem. Your argument is so contingent on your own specific set of biases your responses are very closely toing the line of trolling. You know what games you couldn't do on older hardware? All of the ones with real time physics, which have been revolutionary in terms of gameplay and visual fidelity.

 

[sniperpon]

At this point, your selectiveness is starting to seem like trolling.

It's not deliberate selectiveness if there is any, I just have a two year-old daughter hanging off of my leg as I'm writing, and I'm responding to several people all at once

I'll drop the topic for now, I think you get what I'm trying to say, I'm obviously not persuading you any further-- you have your world view.

However, you can disagree with me all you want- disagreement is a good thing! But we should check back in 5-10 years to see how accurate my predictions are. I think they'll be fairly accurate.

 

[SapientWolf]

That's highly subjective, I don't know if you'll get a lot of people to agree with you on that one.


I'm not sure about those numbers. My 680 can push BF3 at only around 70-80fps at 1080p, with a i7-2600K @ 3.4GHz. Which is fine for me, since my monitor only pushes up to 60, but it's not triple-digit.

BF3's MSAA is awful and craters your FPS for almost no IQ improvement. Turn that off and the game will easily hit the triples. Then you can inject some SMAA.

 

[Zyrusticae]

Looks on the level with something like Max Payne 3 on PC, so I'm not shocked. The main difference of impressiveness is the talent of the artists and animators, then to a lesser extent the lighting.

That's a good point. In retrospect, it's pretty close to MP3 on PC, with most of the differences simply being artistry and lighting.

By the way, another thing that proves that current budgets don't need to increase is the ENB Series mod (well, shader injector) for Skyrim. It alone, with no other mods, just it alone, can produce incredibly realistic images with the game's existing assets.

(Credit to Confidence-Man from the ENB forums)

 

[LeleSocho]

Don't get angry, I'm enjoying the debate!

I'm not a troll, nor am I "too close" to my idea. We're...

1) Having an open, honest intellectual disagreement
2) You're failing to persuade me that I'm wrong
3) You're getting mad about number 2

Just because I have an opinion that you disagree with doesn't make me a troll!

I don't have to persuade you since i'm bringing facts and still you are not accepting them or pretending of not seeing them
It's like debating with a child who state that the color of the sky is purple and when you make he notice that it's actually blue he answer with "Sorry i'm momentarily blind so can't see your blue sky"

 

[Refreshment.01]

So basically, you're going to ignore all the gameplay ideas people just brought up that would be decidedly impossible without the requisite hardware performance and retreat to your same "technology = devil" talking point?

Wii U has been confirmed to not be a technological powerhouse. Therefore, "finally real HD!" is out and it's time for round 2 of the "gameplay > graphics" and "powerful hardware kills developers" rhetoric.

This seems to be the case, he just pretty much ignores all the counter arguments he doesn't have an answer for. Then he opens the umbrella of "nah those are doable on Xbox" and calls it a day.

I wouldn't mind yet another one of these guys around but then he goes on with the tirade on how he so much pursues intellectually honest and reasonable disscussion.

Come on man, is so easy looking through you is not even funny

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

You know what other game you cannot make on for the first Xbox? one that is based on solving puzzles through dynamic lighting, not because the game realizes that you solved it, but because you have to SEE it to get the answer.

 

[i-Lo]

People are so underestimating next gen consoles it's kind of fun. Of course this game will run on PS4/720. The whole tech demo was made with this in mind. It's not like it's a PC only thing.

And it has to be that and some to be a big step compared to current gen.

And you may be overestimating them. It serves to ones advantage to underestimate because then, "disappointment" becomes nearly non-existent.

The Agni demo was made to tell Sony and MS what sort of visuals are expected next gen so that their hardware is up to speed. Secondly, much like FF13, we may see a large drop in things like character detail etc but the overall fidelity may remain close to the demo.

It is best to expect that the first generation PS4 or XB3 games will look like sharper, smoother and higher detailed versions of the best looking games available on, now the twilight, years of current consoles, namely Halo 4 and The Last of Us. This is not only more realistic of an expectation given what we saw at the beginning of last generation but will also pleasantly surprise you if your expectations are indeed exceeded.

 

[CambriaRising]

:lol


add this to the stupid graph pile we keep on GAF

Honestly, what a crock of shit.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I don't think budgets will skyrocket at all.

This generation brought higher quality assets, cinematics, and production values in general.

This next gen will just be refining them and displaying them at better quality and with more on screen. Most assets are already produced at a higher level and then scaled down.

 

[Jedi2016]

BF3's MSAA is awful and craters your FPS for almost no IQ improvement. Turn that off and the game will easily hit the triples. Then you can inject some SMAA.

You're right, I stand corrected. 120+ in the starting level with no AA, dips down into the 90s here and there. 50+ in 3D is pretty cool, too, I wasn't getting more than 30 before. I'm off to find the BF3 performance thread now.. lol.

Thanks.

 

[thuway]

People are so underestimating next gen consoles it's kind of fun. Of course this game will run on PS4/720. The whole tech demo was made with this in mind. It's not like it's a PC only thing.

And it has to be that and some to be a big step compared to current gen.

I'm not buying the whole theory of next gen consoles being gimped compared to PC's. Last time there was this huge discrepancy between PC and console was back in the 16bit era. I don't think this trend is coming back.

You should look at some of the Vita "tech demos". They showed off Lost Planet 2 and Metal Gear Solid 4 and claimed the Vita would be able to run those at its native resolution.

What did we get? We have Uncharted, at 480p, looking like a blurry mess. We have Gravity Rush, once again, 480p, looking like a jaggy mess. We have Wipeout HD, running at 30 fps, at 480p.

In the final years of PS4+720, you will see a facsimile of this tech demo, running at 720p, with no AA. That's probably the best you are getting in game. Keep your expectations in the shitter.

 

[i-Lo]

You should look at some of the Vita "tech demos". They showed off Lost Planet 2 and Metal Gear Solid 4 and claimed the Vita would be able to run those at its native resolution.

What did we get? We have Uncharted, at 480p, looking like a blurry mess. We have Gravity Rush, once again, 480p, looking like a jaggy mess. We have Wipeout HD, running at 30 fps, at 480p.

In the final years of PS4+720, you will see a facsimile of this tech demo, running at 720p, with no AA. That's probably the best you are getting in game. Keep your expectations in the shitter.

Wow, that's 180 degrees change in attitude. What did you do with Thuway?

 

[sniperpon]

add this to the stupid graph pile we keep on GAF

Some aspects of forums like this one kind of creep me out. What's with this "shaming someone into submission" deal? I just had an abstract thought model in my head, heaven forbid I try to represent it visually so I can share it with like-minded hobbyists.

Shaming is one of the cornerstones of groupthink-- human beings have been using "wall of shame" mechanisms for hundreds of years. Things haven't changed.

Come on man, is so easy looking through you is not even funny

You have me totally wrong. I'm constantly incorporating all sorts of disparate opinions into my mental constructs. I've come totally 180 degrees on a plethora of things in my life. Heck, my mental constructs are formed by opinions I read, most of which I initially don't agree with (otherwise they wouldn't have required an adjustment in my thinking).

I'm also the furthest thing from a technology luddite you could find-- I've been building PCs since about 1990, and am a software developer by trade. I play modern games in tandem with "classic" titles, in equal measure (working my way through Dark Souls, Xcom: Enemy Unknown, and Star Control II at the moment, as examples).

I just think people are too quick to judge intellectual models that are contrary to their own. They resort to name calling and shaming groupthink tactics as the first mode of behavior.

Incidentally, I just came back from eating some lunch and saw the post about Kinect-- that's a great counterexample to my argument. It advances gameplay, and couldn't have (easily at least) been done on earlier hardware.

I suppose the thing that frustrates me is the fawning over tech demos, then hearing those same people complain about the Call of Duty/lack of creativity in the industry, as if those two things aren't inter-dependent. I try to change peoples' values to represent gameplay-over-graphics-technology, but as this thread has proven, it's not easy.

 

[Durante]

Incidentally, I just came back from eating some lunch and saw the post about Kinect-- that's a great counterexample to my argument. It advances gameplay, and couldn't have (easily at least) been done on earlier hardware.

So why is Kinect a permissible example of gameplay that requires high-end processing in your "mental constructs", while all the examples brought up on the previous page are not?

 

[inky]

I just think people are too quick to judge intellectual models that are contrary to their own. They resort to name calling and shaming groupthink tactics as the first mode of behavior.

No, people are questioning your use of a bar graph (which is mostly used to represent hard data) to represent things such as "level needed to provide sublimely rich experiences" which are as abstract as they come. Then use those same abstract ideas (like 16 bit games looking "better" than fully modeled open world 3D experiences) to argue against very quantifiable progress in the graphic assets rendering space.

That's why they feel you are being not only intellectually dishonest, but actually trolling. It's not a thing of people not understanding your position or thought processes, is them being rather poor tools to make whatever point you have.

 

[Lime]

While the sniperpon's point against technical progress limiting creative expression in the video game industry is misguided, the aspect of developers focusing too much on technical effects rather than aesthetics and/or creative innovation is sound.

Many developers seem to focus too much on pushing the technical boundaries as much as possible and lose focus on actually producing something new and creative. Because of this mindset, we usually just end up with corridor-filled shootbang fest # 1874 with more AA or better resolution.

I.e. it isn't the hardware that is the problem, but how developers use it. Too many focus on technical aspects rather than artistic ones. Limiting the hardware might force developers to focus on the latter, but it should be the developers who willingly do this themselves, and not by arbitrary restrictions like old/restricted hardware.

 

[sniperpon]

while all the examples brought up on the previous page are not?

Which examples? The only one I think I haven't mentioned is "real-time bullet physics". Sure, I'll grant that one too if it'll make you happy.

To refocus on my thesis though, as opposed to being obsessed with one component of it, I do believe that creativity in our industry has struggled, and I think the fanboyish obsession with graphics technology has pushed us in that direction.

Have you read Jaron Lanier's "You Are Not a Gadget"? He makes some points that are philosophically similar to mine in some ways. I enjoyed that book a lot. I wrote a two-part blog post that played off of some of his ideas as well.

I think we need more voices-- and indeed we have many, such as in the several links I included in my previous posts, which is a good thing-- that try to steer the industry back towards the evolution of gameplay, much/most of which is not dependent on having new hardware and bigger-is-better budgets.

 

[Lime]

I think we need more voices-- and indeed we have many, such as in the several links I included in my previous posts, which is a good thing-- that try to steer the industry back towards the evolution of gameplay, much/most of which is not dependent on having new hardware and bigger-is-better budgets.

As I stated above, hardware shouldn't be the arbitrary restriction that forces developers to meet your criteria of success - rather, the developers should themselves be up to the task of creating something innovative and meaningful.

It's not the hardware that determines the lack of creativity in the video game industry, but the developers. Thus, it is only a question of how developers use hardware, and not vice versa.

 

[sniperpon]

It's not a thing of people not understanding your position or thought processes, is them being rather poor tools to make whatever point you have.

Thanks for the explanation! In all of my years this is my first time trying to use a forum as a medium for expressing my ideas. It's well-suited in some respects, and ill-suited in others.

My use of a bar graph was an attempt to explain a highly abstract concept in a way that "ordinary" people (Myers-Briggs "S" types, as I mentioned in an earlier post) could understand. It's ironic that the choice was my argument's undoing I don't mind people disagreeing with it-- in fact, I welcome it-- but the commentary is too mockery-focused/vitriolic for my liking.

As for the Streets of Rage 2/Skyrim comparison, some people I think disagree so strongly in part because they perceive graphics technology and artistic merit as somehow inter-related, whereas I view them as completely independent. Many NES games have better artwork than many contemporary games, at least in my opinion.

 

[benny_a]

Which examples? The only one I think I haven't mentioned is "real-time bullet physics". Sure, I'll grant that one too if it'll make you happy.

So basically this discussion is over. Gameplay that couldn't be done previously is possible with better hardware. Blog post invalidated.

Now trying to turn this thread into "I think creativity and the obsession with graphics is not good for the industry" just makes you look even more of a troll, as you're trying to derail what this thread is about.

Start a new thread about that topic or bump any of the hundred that we had on GAF about that argument.
Edit: I just saw you're a Junior Member. If you want that topic to be created write an OP and PM a Moderator. They can act as proxies in creation of threads.

 

[sniperpon]

Thus, it is only a question of how developers use hardware, and not vice versa.

I totally agree in theory. The problem is that when you introduce new hardware with more powerful graphics co-processors, developers feel compelled to use that power, budgets-be-damned. I don't know why video game makers are basically incapable of running sound businesses, but there it is.

Of course, I'm not saying we shouldn't ever make new game hardware. I'm simply trying to be one voice that slows, however minimally, the destructive cycle.

 

[Dali]

Which examples? The only one I think I haven't mentioned is "real-time bullet physics". Sure, I'll grant that one too if it'll make you happy.

To refocus on my thesis though, as opposed to being obsessed with one component of it, I do believe that creativity in our industry has struggled, and I think the fanboyish obsession with graphics technology has pushed us in that direction.

Have you read Jaron Lanier's "You Are Not a Gadget"? He makes some points that are philosophically similar to mine in some ways. I enjoyed that book a lot. I wrote a two-part blog post that played off of some of his ideas as well.

I think we need more voices-- and indeed we have many, such as in the several links I included in my previous posts, which is a good thing-- that try to steer the industry back towards the evolution of gameplay, much/most of which is not dependent on having new hardware and bigger-is-better budgets.

You've plugged your blog twice in the last two pages. I think I'm beginning to see why you're having so much fun with this discussion, lol. There's actually a thread for that in the OT if you're interested.

 

[sniperpon]

you're trying to derail what this thread is about.

Yikes, who makes you sole arbiter of the thread? There's that vitriol and name-calling I mentioned earlier.

I'd also argue that my blog post isn't invalidated, the issue is just more nuanced. I think I'll go work on a new model and merge in what I learned here.

 

[benny_a]

Yikes, who makes you sole arbiter of the thread? There's that vitriol and name-calling I mentioned earlier.

Nothing formally. I'd say the best argument for that title would be my ability to read the OP of this thread and seeing the question being asked in it.

I'm still going to stop backseat moderating now.

 

[inky]

As for the Streets of Rage 2/Skyrim comparison, some people I think disagree so strongly in part because they perceive graphics technology and artistic merit as somehow inter-related, whereas I view them as completely independent. Many NES games have better artwork than many contemporary games, at least in my opinion.

Be that as it may, that doesn't negate the actual progress achieved by game consoles and technology improvement to represent things on the screen. In that case, your opinion shouldn't invalidate what other people are arguing, which is technological progress should be needed and welcome, and not become stagnant just because you think we have enough tools to represent things in videogames in a way that pleases you.

 

[sniperpon]

There's actually a thread for that in the OT if you're interested.

Is "OT" "off topic", or something else? I'll check it out in any case!

And I'm not trying to "advertise" my blog or anything like that-- I don't have any ads on it or anything, it's a money-losing/expense foray for me. It's just that I do a lot of writing there, and I like to tie in my writing when having conversations.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

Yikes, who makes you sole arbiter of the thread? There's that vitriol and name-calling I mentioned earlier.

I'd also argue that my blog post isn't invalidated, the issue is just more nuanced. I think I'll go work on a new model and merge in what I learned here.

I think your model kind of works but its limited to console AAA games. Which honestly haven't change that much since 2004. But yeah, one does have the risk of making generalizations when trying to fit any wide variety of anything under a single hypothesis.

 

[sniperpon]

not become stagnant just because you think we have enough tools to represent things in videogames in a way that pleases you.

Very valid point! Although it's not the "pleasing me" aspect that I primarily care about-- it's more that I see technology pushing us towards less and less creativity, which is a detriment to the hobby as a whole.

 

[Dali]

Is "OT" "off topic", or something else? I'll check it out in any case!

And I'm not trying to "advertise" my blog or anything like that-- I don't have any ads on it or anything, it's a money-losing/expense foray for me. It's just that I do a lot of writing there, and I like to tie in my writing when having conversations.

Yes, off topic.

The "pimp your blog" thread: http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186900

 

[Zyrusticae]

Very valid point! Although it's not the "pleasing me" aspect that I primarily care about-- it's more that I see technology pushing us towards less and less creativity, which is a detriment to the hobby as a whole.

Well, the way I see it, if what you're saying is true then the big companies will implode on themselves of their own accord.

Actually, it should have happened already.

I remain highly skeptical, however, as I do not believe budgets will be escalating any further.

 

[Vesper73]

I'm just drooling at the thought of how a next-gen Red Dead game will look.
RDR still looks great to this day barring some performance and image quality concerns.

Where's my PC version? ...Pretty please!

 

[Vesper73]

That's a good point. In retrospect, it's pretty close to MP3 on PC, with most of the differences simply being artistry and lighting.

By the way, another thing that proves that current budgets don't need to increase is the ENB Series mod (well, shader injector) for Skyrim. It alone, with no other mods, just it alone, can produce incredibly realistic images with the game's existing assets.

I came here to post about this. I thought we were quite a ways off from having Agni graphics, but over the last few days I've been running Skyrim with amazing ENB presets, and upgraded models. My jaw has been on the floor! I just keep saying, "We've arrived!"

I don't think anyone is really aware of the visual bump we are getting from the ENB Series.

The future is bright!

 

[thuway]

Wow, that's 180 degrees change in attitude. What did you do with Thuway?

I am sure this could be done on next gen hardware

Spoiler

.... if developers target sub HD resolution, inferior forms of AA, and an absolute zero emphasis on real world lighting.

I love you i-Lo, but not even I'm delusional enough to believe Square Enix can produce a game with this sort of graphical quality at 60 FPS. Star Wars 1313, Watch_Dogs, and a neutered version of Samaritan is what I expect out of next generation out of third parties.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I am sure this could be done on next gen hardware

Spoiler

.... if developers target sub HD resolution, inferior forms of AA, and an absolute zero emphasis on real world lighting.

I love you i-Lo, but not even I'm delusional enough to believe Square Enix can produce a game with this sort of graphical quality at 60 FPS. Star Wars 1313, Watch_Dogs, and a neutered version of Samaritan is what I expect out of next generation out of third parties.

Come on now thuway i expect we going to get something close to this @30fps , dynamic resolution and way less AA.
If you read about the demo there was a fair amount of optimization they could have done plus the lighting is not real time .
Like i -Lo say you doing a 180 all of a sudden

 

[sniperpon]

The "pimp your blog" thread

Just posted over there, thanks for the link!

Well, the way I see it, if what you're saying is true then the big companies will implode on themselves of their own accord. Actually, it should have happened already.

Yes, although I don't know about "should have happened already", as in, past-tense-- it is happening, and will continue happening over the next several years. But in principle, we agree.

 

[i-Lo]

Here are my two cents:

• Video gaming: As the name implies is first and foremost a visual medium. Therefore graphics have as large of a part to play as the gameplay.
• Technological progress: For a technological species, the only true constant is change. And this change permeates into into everything that pertains to technology and evolves it. Why would video gaming technology remain stagnant?
• Video game as a mainstream entertainment medium: Today video games have earned recognition and has gone beyond, "it's a toy for kids". If we had stagnated the technology for video games to the days of Sega Saturn or 3DO unlike other mediums like music, tv shows, movies etc, would it have gained this mainstream acceptance?
• Jobs: The ever shifting technology has brought with it people such as programmers and artists who have been able to leverage their crafts to a new level which although even restricted today, would have been technologically infeasible if we were still stuck in 16 bit era. And let us not forget that it is because of technological we have been able to bring in greater immersion thanks to things like voice acting, mocap animation, inclusion of orchestral themes etc. And let us remember the jobs that been created on the receiving end of gaming, i.e. games journalism. The job field has been greatly aided and diversified because of technological leaps in gaming.
• Free market cycle: Obviously, big budget inevitably brings with it, high risk. We have seen studios closed down. However people sometimes forget that mismanagement has been a culprit as well this gen. Developers and producers should realize that technology will only move forward and so it comes down to prioritizing. There are mobile platforms, open platforms (PC) and home consoles to move to for controlling costs. Look at the video industry today. There are big budget movies, independent movies and then came Youtube, the era where personal videos reaches billions of people worldwide. In a similar fashion, for better of worse the industry will figure out either via a lot of small steps or a few large shifts how it needs to proceed to not crash. And it may as well be technology that saves the industry. The next gen middlewares are trying to be a first step in cost control atm. Who knows what other methods in future may be brought forth for the same purpose.

 

[sniperpon]

Great post i-Lo! But oh oh, I hope you don't get shouted down for "hijacking" the thread, I guess we're not supposed to use a social medium for socializing

Therefore graphics have as large of a part to play as the gameplay.

What's your opinion on art versus graphics (as in, graphics technology)?

I think art plays a huge role in video games. Someone mentioned "why don't you just propose we stick with board games", but that's missing this point.

However, I think you can have good art regardless of the level of technology-- technology is irrelevant. Like I mentioned earlier, there are lots of beautiful NES games that are better looking than modern games.

Now, I'm not saying the converse is true-- that somehow technology makes games ugly. I think a lot of modern games are beautiful as well. I just don't necessarily equate technology with beauty, and I like to try to persuade others to adopt this view as well to broaden their horizons.

Why would video gaming technology remain stagnant?

This is difficult for me to articulate, in that it's highly abstract, but I'll try: the profit motive is going to continue to drive entrpreneurs to make "better" game hardware and software. That's a great thing! What I try to do with my single, meager voice, is try to influence peoples' gaming values so that the evoution happens in a direction that will bring about revolutions in gameplay. I'm not sure our industry is moving in the direction needed for that to occur.

would it have gained this mainstream acceptance?

Fifteen or twenty years ago I used to think that the end-game was for video gaming to get mainstream acceptance. Now that it's happened, I kind of wish it hadn't. There is only so much capital-- both money and intellectual-- to go around, and lots of it gets put into the kinds of games that I personally don't see as progressing the medium. This goes for the "look at how realistic that grass is!" crowd, and the Facebook "superficially rehash and monetize tired genres" group as well.

I joke with friends that we need more "pasty British white guys with beards" making games like we had in the 80s and early 90s, versus the 20 and 30-something hipsters with thick-rimmed glasses that we have today. Yeah, generalizations and stereotypes and all that... but I do think the focus has shifted, and I'm not certain it's for the better if our goal is to produce better art (as in, revolutionary new genres). In my opinion (seems like I need to explicitly suffix absolutely every statement with that qualifier, lest people call me a troll).

Jobs

Yes, the industry has created some jobs. I'm not sure those jobs have done much to restore the devestated manufacturing industry in the West (places like the US and Great Britain)-- iPads are made in China, where the costs of doing business are much lower-- or to greatly add to the kind of sustainable capital wealth needed to bring the West forward in the future (infrastructure, factories, etc.). The video game industry is not going to reverse the USA's trade deficit, but it hasn't been a bad thing either.

Who knows what other methods in future may be brought forth for the same purpose.

That's true. No one really saw the Wii coming, and I liked that technological evolution more than I like the "4 billion shader pipelines!" path.

 

[Wonko_C]

I just want to live long enough to play a game like the one in Sword Art Online, minus the "dying online=dying for real" part.

 

[Backfoggen]

That's a good point. In retrospect, it's pretty close to MP3 on PC, with most of the differences simply being artistry and lighting.

By the way, another thing that proves that current budgets don't need to increase is the ENB Series mod (well, shader injector) for Skyrim. It alone, with no other mods, just it alone, can produce incredibly realistic images with the game's existing assets.

Just adding global illumination should already help with the "next-gen" look. I personally think a lot of the earlier titles will be that way. Just some smaller tweaks to stuff the extra power somewhere.

 

[Black_Stride]

to be fair, this is true 90 percent of the time. Go to one of the bigger maps, stand on a tall surface where you can watch the whole map, and if you're playing 64 players you're likely to get dips into the 50s

hmm granted i havent actually tried that.
But i imagine its true.
My cousins rig which is a 3770K + GTX680 never dips below 60, but i wasnt attempting any stress test i was just playing.

With Vsync off it would in some points "not staring at walls" reach 102fps but yeah id say maybe a good 70 - 80 is where a decent GTX680 should hold Battlefield 3.

According to reviews the average is around 70 fps. Of course, not only is BF3 max'd out but the resolution 1920x1200 with 4AA instead of 1920x1080. So there will be some performance gain.

Hmm curious....well nonetheless, it can definitely hold 60 it isnt struggling.
I dont put too much weight into benchmarks if ive got a machine at home to test with myself.

I'm not sure about those numbers. My 680 can push BF3 at only around 70-80fps at 1080p, with a i7-2600K @ 3.4GHz. Which is fine for me, since my monitor only pushes up to 60, but it's not triple-digit.

Well atleast it isnt struggling to push 60fps.

 

[Josh7289]

It'd be nice if Square-Enix actually released more of their main games on PC. They already have this tech demo running on PC, after all. I guess they're afraid of piracy?

I don't have much confidence that the next round of consoles will beat today's high-end PCs either.

 

[DJIzana]

It'd be nice if Square-Enix actually released more of their main games on PC. They already have this tech demo running on PC, after all. I guess they're afraid of piracy?

I don't have much confidence that the next round of consoles will beat today's high-end PCs either.

I can't find a reason to even turn on my console any more, aside from exclusives. The 3rd party games are almost ALWAYS better on PC now.

I was also thinking that they're afraid of piracy with the lack of PC support with their Japanese games.

 

[Tess3ract]

I can't find a reason to even turn on my console any more, aside from exclusives. The 3rd party games are almost ALWAYS better on PC now.

I was also thinking that they're afraid of piracy with the lack of PC support with their Japanese games.

Japan doesn't really like sitting at home playing video games, and quite a lot sit at their computers all day doing work so there's that.

Also last I checked a few years ago they were mostly using XP still.

Japan loves mobile gaming though

 

[zoukka]

By the way, another thing that proves that current budgets don't need to increase is the ENB Series mod (well, shader injector) for Skyrim. It alone, with no other mods, just it alone, can produce incredibly realistic images with the game's existing assets.

None of those images looked even remotely realistic.

 

[Risk Breaker]

Would love to see every single mechanic in MGS2 running on an MSX. That's not even using MGS3 or MGS4 as the example, or even more complex games.

 

[Strife91]

I can't find a reason to even turn on my console any more, aside from exclusives. The 3rd party games are almost ALWAYS better on PC now.

You're making it sound like exclusives aren't a big deal.

 

[Vesper73]

Just to sort of validate my earlier post, here are some screenshots I've taken using a custom enb on skyrim, (mostly Opethfeldt6), using nothing more than the official hi-res texture pack through steam, and the few mods that came with Opethfeldt6.

I pretty much run at 60hz everywhere, (660ti sli), I still can't pick my jaw up off the floor while I'm playing. I get the feeling like I'm playing in a Pixar movie at times.

I'll upload more pics as I go along if anyone is interested!