Support NeoGAF

[DarkstarRising13]

What’s the point of consoles at this point with so many, some even granular settings. Just optimise for hardware. Having these many settings is leaving the responsibility and false choice to gamers.

Maybe it’s not too much choice yet but doesn’t bode well

Quit acting like an unoptimized game like Alan Wake 2 running on a crap engine is somehow the face of PSSR. "

The pros outweigh the cons. Many games run beautifully on the PS5 Pro, like Horizon Forbidden West/Zero Dawn Remastered, Stellar Blade, Final Fantasy VII Rebirth, and so many others. It is worth the $700 price tag, and many more games coming next year, like Crimson Desert, will take advantage of running on a better framerate/resolution than the base PS5.

Unreal Engine 5 is beating up the base PS5 pretty badly. I can't imagine how bad Kingdom Hearts IV will run on base PS5.

 

[DanielG165]

People are looking at the option to turn off PSSR as a bad thing, when it’s really not. The PS5 Pro is supposed to be a, “pro” device, per the name, and marketed towards the more hardcore enthusiast crowd. Having more options to tweak the graphical settings in a game, and tailor the experience to how you want is ultimately a net positive, and is part of the reason why so many love to game on PC.

If you market your piece of tech as, “pro”, then absolutely give me the ability to tweak things a bit. “It’s still a console!” Yeah, but said console is also $700+, and is meant to be an entry into “higher quality gaming”, no? It doesn’t matter if the option to turn off PSSR is ironic, if doing so helps improve the experience for a specific game, then hell yeah it should be in the settings.

 

[DanielG165]

Yea and it was a mistake a decade ago.

Oh well. Consoles very likely won’t be going backwards in this regard.

 

[diffusionx]

People are looking at the option to turn off PSSR as a bad thing, when it’s really not. The PS5 Pro is supposed to be a, “pro” device, per the name, and marketed towards the more hardcore enthusiast crowd. Having more options to tweak the graphical settings in a game, and tailor the experience to how you want is ultimately a net positive, and is part of the reason why so many love to game on PC.

If you market your piece of tech as, “pro”, then absolutely give me the ability to tweak things a bit. “It’s still a console!” Yeah, but said console is also $700+, and is meant to be an entry into “higher quality gaming”, no? It doesn’t matter if the option to turn off PSSR is ironic, if doing so helps improve the experience for a specific game, then hell yeah it should be in the settings.

"Here is a toggle to change from an uglier looking game to a better looking one for no reason" - this makes no sense whatsoever, when you can just keep the toggle set to the better looking one. Again, this is fixed hardware. This is the point. On PC it makes sense to trade off looks for performance, but the entire point of these upscaling techniques is to get both performance and fidelity. Cerny explained it in his video that introduced the Pro.

So, no, the PS5 Pro does not exist to give people options. It exists to take away options, actually, namely 30fps quality modes. Again, watch Cerny's video, it's only 8 minutes. What these devs are doing is just adding a toggle because they don't know what to do with PSSR and don't actually want to try to fix the problem.

 

[crunchyBiscuits]

So the real question is.. do i keep waiting until a new version of PSSR hits and it's playable at 60fps with quality-like settings or try the new 40fps mode. Been waiting since launch to play this but I've been putting it off since I didn't wanna do 30fps on OLED

 

[gothmog]

Can't wait to try this out, especially seeing the difference in PSSR on/off. Having more options is a good thing IMO, but some people just like complaining I guess.

 

[HogIsland]

Probably not a priority since most console owners don’t own a 120Hz capable TV. However, it seems simple enough to implement for those that do.

If you bought a PS5 Pro before a 120hz (OLED) display, you messed up

 

[Skifi28]

I'm mostly here for the shiitakes. Happy with the improvements and new options.

 

[Moses85]

I am currently playing this Game. It is so fucking crazy. It is a pain in the ass to finish it.

I had already forgotten how much I hated the first Game.

Waste of time and money.

 

[Senua]

Yeah, maybe I should try that on Bloodborne.

Oh wait

Bloodborne is running awesomely on shadps4

 

[TGO]

I

Its a hit or miss in this early stage. Having a toggle is a good thing. PSSR is a lot better in AW2 than fsr tho, especially in performance mode

I just tested this, and maybe for performance mode.
But damn the picture is more stable and clean without it.
This is joke

 

[krumble]

"Here is a toggle to change from an uglier looking game to a better looking one for no reason" - this makes no sense whatsoever, when you can just keep the toggle set to the better looking one. Again, this is fixed hardware. This is the point. On PC it makes sense to trade off looks for performance, but the entire point of these upscaling techniques is to get both performance and fidelity. Cerny explained it in his video that introduced the Pro.

So, no, the PS5 Pro does not exist to give people options. It exists to take away options, actually, namely 30fps quality modes. Again, watch Cerny's video, it's only 8 minutes. What these devs are doing is just adding a toggle because they don't know what to do with PSSR and don't actually want to try to fix the problem.

You do understand that we all don’t have the same tv right?
What looks good at one resolution on a particular tv will more than likely look completely different on another. The pro may be fixed hardware but the output screen isn’t and that’s where options are necessary
Sure I would have preferred the promise of “the quality level graphics with the frame rate of performance” that mark cerny Sold the machine to us on, but given pssr is hit or miss depending on what sdk a game was built/shipped on and how much effort or even how possible it is to bring it up to an sdk version that has the updated pssr algorithms and training in them, you can see how this could vary in the cost of implementation…
I was always surprised that people expected pssr to be good on version 1
DLSS has taken years of training using the best chipsets that nvidia can produce, FSR is a sort of poor man’s copy cat idea implemented years later and lagging behind in every possible way, and now we have a brand new Sony ps5 only upscale algorithms that honestly their own internal teams appear to have implemented their own proprietary upscalers in games that are superior to either FSR or PSSR
Sony just don’t have the development clout that either nvidia or amd have to throw behind their model training and we are seeing that pan out at the moment
It will likely improve, but will always lag behind FSR & DLSS ultimately since the hardware manufacturers will always be able to make progress on their models quicker than Sony.
For those comparing FSR to PSSR on PS5 games right now you have to take into account most of these games aren’t using the latest FSR updates available to amd hardware either

 

[Gaiff]

Yeah, maybe I should try that on Bloodborne.

Oh wait

Lol, that joke is dead. Bloodborne plays better on PC than it ever did on PS.

Some issues to iron out and make it perfect, but it's no longer a valid retort.

 

[TGO]

PSSR disabled

 

[rofif]

Quit acting like an unoptimized game like Alan Wake 2 running on a crap engine is somehow the face of PSSR. "

The pros outweigh the cons. Many games run beautifully on the PS5 Pro, like Horizon Forbidden West/Zero Dawn Remastered, Stellar Blade, Final Fantasy VII Rebirth, and so many others. It is worth the $700 price tag, and many more games coming next year, like Crimson Desert, will take advantage of running on a better framerate/resolution than the base PS5.

Unreal Engine 5 is beating up the base PS5 pretty badly. I cant imagine how bad Kingdom Hearst IV will run on base PS5.

Obviously remedy is at fault. There are better pro games running faster

 

[FireFly]

I am currently playing this Game. It is so fucking crazy. It is a pain in the ass to finish it.

I had already forgotten how much I hated the first Game.

Waste of time and money.

Why not stop playing? If you're annoyed by the gameplay, then the last levels are going to take it up to a whole new level.

 

[TGO]

Performance mode with PSSR disabled

 

[rofif]

Lol, that joke is dead. Bloodborne plays better on PC than it ever did on PS.

Some issues to iron out and make it perfect, but it's no longer a valid retort.

Sure it for higher fps especially in yharnam but there are a ton of missing effects, stuttering and bugs. Don’t downplay those

 

[Gaiff]

Sure it for higher fps especially in yharnam but there are a ton of missing effects, stuttering and bugs. Don’t downplay those

Nope. Most of the effects have been restored. There are even additional effects such as SSR. Stuttering is almost entirely eliminated if you cap it to 60fps. There are so visual bugs, but by and large, it plays A LOT better than on PS4.

 

[hinch7]

A 40FPS mode should be in every console game tbh. Decent update for Pro owners.

 

[rkofan87]

i hope ubi and ea add a toggle for their affected games.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Letting you turn off PISSER is the only logical choice. Imagine if Nvidia forced DLSS in every game from the start. Would’ve been a shitshow.

 

[rofif]

"Here is a toggle to change from an uglier looking game to a better looking one for no reason" - this makes no sense whatsoever, when you can just keep the toggle set to the better looking one. Again, this is fixed hardware. This is the point. On PC it makes sense to trade off looks for performance, but the entire point of these upscaling techniques is to get both performance and fidelity. Cerny explained it in his video that introduced the Pro.

So, no, the PS5 Pro does not exist to give people options. It exists to take away options, actually, namely 30fps quality modes. Again, watch Cerny's video, it's only 8 minutes. What these devs are doing is just adding a toggle because they don't know what to do with PSSR and don't actually want to try to fix the problem.

Yep. On console it makes nonsense to have these settings.
Devs should make it so the game is minmaxing the hardware to the damn silicon. It’s not just a pc. The architecture is much different despite what many may believe. And those who get into it, have many ways to use ps5 specific features to offload or replace rendering solutions. On a level we don’t even understand as just gamers. And obviously remedy too.

I understand the hardware is limited but that’s the point. Any toggles and switches are just redundancy. Who would like a worse looking game ?!
It’s a console. We don’t have rtss and instant screenshots comparison even to compare the effects. Not even fps counters. We don’t even know what res modes run at. How is anyone to make a choice from worse to only bad without any tools.

2 simple modes and fps unlock are fine but when you get into granular settings like pssr or ratchet… what’s the point anymore.
There is no hardware upgrade. All the choice is fake and choosing between compromises which imo should’ve been tuned by the dev.

Again. I would like just 1 mode. Dynamic res and fps unlock for those who want and future consoles. That’s it.

 

[rofif]

Nope. Most of the effects have been restored. There are even additional effects such as SSR. Stuttering is almost entirely eliminated if you cap it to 60fps. There are so visual bugs, but by and large, it plays A LOT better than on PS4.

Shame on Sony. These idiots should’ve made 4k120 hdr port to ps5. Simple as that. Now it’s too late

 

[TGO]

It does seem PSSR resolved more details in stills.
But a unpaused picture looks like a compressed video.
Even with the lesser details without PSSR is looks sharper and cleaner because it has no noise.

 

[twilo99]

The real question is, why do devs still take months to implement a 40Hz mode? It's often the best one on consoles. 30fps is too slow and laggy. 60fps is too demanding and has bad IQ. 40fps feels smooth enough and the IQ is often far better than 60fps.

What a sad state of affairs console gaming is in when it comes to fidelity…

 

[Esppiral]

PSSR the feature that keeps on delivering.

 

[rofif]

It's a good thing. There is the option to turn upscalers on or off on PC despite everyone overwhelmingly agreeing that DLSS is a boon. There are people who still don't care for upscalers and all of them have some unintended side-effects.

The real question is, why do devs still take months to implement a 40Hz mode? It's often the best one on consoles. 30fps is too slow and laggy. 60fps is too demanding and has bad IQ. 40fps feels smooth enough and the IQ is often far better than 60fps.

40fps is the new 30 because they fuck up controls, deadzones and sticks acceleration... and vsync.
it used to be that 30 was rather responsive and fast to control. Compare 30fps in bloodborne vs demons souls.... I dare to say that maybe 30fps bloodborne is still more responsive than even 60fps demons souls.
So 40fps exists again... as a failure to those who can't do 30fps right and almost nobody can anymore.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

Tried it and : frankly, there's not much difference, all of the modes still have the ghastly shimmering (even quality) but the difference is, now you can play it at 40fps.
Bad image quality is bad and I personally lost all hope that this will be properly fixed, maybe it's their engine - and it still is a heavy game even on PC - but, IMO, this game can only be saved by new and way more powerful console hardware in the future.

Also : the DLC (both of them) are...some of the emptiest and shallow ones I've ever played (liked the main game well enough).
Don't even bother getting it.

 

[LordOcidax]

Next firmware update for the PS5 Pro.

-Can turn off PSSR at system level.

 

[rofif]

Tried it and : frankly, there's not much difference, all of the modes still have the ghastly shimmering (even quality) but the difference is, now you can play it at 40fps.
Bad image quality is bad and I personally lost all hope that this will be properly fixed, maybe it's their engine - and it still is a heavy game even on PC - but, IMO, this game can only be saved by new and way more powerful console hardware in the future.

Also : the DLC (both of them) are...some of the emptiest and shallow ones I've ever played (liked the main game well enough).
Don't even bother getting it.

image quality is one thing but I lost all hope for them to fix the controls. deadzones and horrible acceleration ruin it for me

 

[Gaiff]

Shame on Sony. These idiots should’ve made 4k120 hdr port to ps5. Simple as that. Now it’s too late

The Bloodborne situation is just so bizarre to me. People say it hasn't sold. It has sold over 7 million and is a cult classic. The fact that they haven't even acknowledged it after all those years is baffling. I have no idea if the rumor that they're working on a remake is true. We haven't heard squat about it, so I'm going to lean towards no.

 

[yogaflame]

These are the latest update notes for Alan Wake 2

16th December 2024

PlayStation 5 (1.200.007)
Xbox Series (1.2.0.7)
PC (1.2.7)

Improvements and additions

• [PS5 Pro] Added a new “Balanced” graphics mode. This mode requires compatible displays that can achieve a 120Hz refresh rate. The Balanced mode combines PS5 Pro Quality mode settings including raytracing with Performance mode resolution. This mode targets 40fps.
• [PS5 Pro] Slightly adjusted visual settings of the Performance mode to achieve a more consistent framerate.
• [PS5 Pro] Quality and Balanced mode: Adjusted Raytracing settings to achieve a less noisy image.
• [PS5 Pro] Added an option to toggle PSSR (PlayStation Spectral Super Resolution) On/Off.

Fixes

• [The Lake House] Fixed manuscript collectables that showed the wrong page in Saga’s Mind Place.
• [The Lake House] Fixed “Welcome to the Lake House” video collectable missing audio.
• Minor fixes and optimizations.

Looks like developers continue to learn and PSSR ML continues to evolve and adjust.

 

[proandrad]

It's a good thing. There is the option to turn upscalers on or off on PC despite everyone overwhelmingly agreeing that DLSS is a boon. There are people who still don't care for upscalers and all of them have some unintended side-effects.

The real question is, why do devs still take months to implement a 40Hz mode? It's often the best one on consoles. 30fps is too slow and laggy. 60fps is too demanding and has bad IQ. 40fps feels smooth enough and the IQ is often far better than 60fps.

Having VRR support but not 120hz to use LFC from the start is even more puzzling.

 

[LordOcidax]

The Bloodborne situation is just so bizarre to me. People say it hasn't sold. It has sold over 7 million and is a cult classic. The fact that they haven't even acknowledged it after all those years is baffling. I have no idea if the rumor that they're working on a remake is true. We haven't heard squat about it, so I'm going to lean towards no.

It’s going to be a PS6 launch title like the Demons Souls remake and is not a bad idea.

 

[rofif]

Having VRR support but not 120hz to use LFC from the start is even more puzzling.

That';s for whole ps5.
30fps, 60fps.... whatever. Both should be running in global 120hz containter if connected to 120hz tv. Should not even be an option otherwise

 

[Skifi28]

PSSR the feature that keeps on delivering.

This, but unironically. The latest release, Wukong, has a great implementation as the vast majority of games do.

 

[Moses85]

Why not stop playing? If you're annoyed by the gameplay, then the last levels are going to take it up to a whole new level.

I finished every game ive ever played. Giving up is not my style. I also paid money for it

 

[bundylove]

40fps is big.

Didnt test pssr on and off but 40 fps looks great.

 

[Insane Metal]

We need comparisons asap.

 

[TGO]

Tried it and : frankly, there's not much difference, all of the modes still have the ghastly shimmering (even quality) but the difference is, now you can play it at 40fps.
Bad image quality is bad and I personally lost all hope that this will be properly fixed, maybe it's their engine - and it still is a heavy game even on PC - but, IMO, this game can only be saved by new and way more powerful console hardware in the future.

Also : the DLC (both of them) are...some of the emptiest and shallow ones I've ever played (liked the main game well enough).
Don't even bother getting it.

Need to be a little more specific

I know what you mean, but saying it has bad image quality gives a different impression then the one that's actually present.
It's not as good as a high-end PC with high quality Raytraying, but it's not sub 1080p bad like some suggest.
Yes they need to do better, and I'm interested in what DF has to say about this patch and how much is actually being left the table, because I still don't think they using the PS5 Pro how they could.

 

[OGM_Madness]

What I hate about the Pro (and I have one) is that Cerny did a Bait and Switch with the whole “don’t have to choose”

Before we had Performance, Quality and, sometimes, Balanced. Now we have Performance, Performance Pro, Quality, Quality Pro, Balanced, Balanced Pro, Pro mode and Pro Max.

Add to all this PSSR Toggles and HFR toggles, plus sharpness sliders that often improve the “shadows” or remove artifacts from PSSR… are we PC now bois?

If I wanted to tinker with the game, either go all in and let us literally break the machine open, upgrade our hardware and install whatever OS we want, or make it dummy proof (have a director decide the optimal way to present the game, where the only alternatives are having certain features automatically activate if your Display allows it).

 

[DeepEnigma]

The fact that they are updating games to be able to remove PSSR is not a good look for the PS5 Pro

There are more games that look and perform well with it than not. Not a good look for the handful of devs if more are having less of an issue than a handful.

They had issues with DLSS as well when they first launched and needed patching with heavy ghosting. Same with SH2 having issues with DLSS with flickering, etc, and needed patching.

Toggles are always good until things mature.

 

[Kerotan]

I'm about to start the lake house with PSSR on in 40fps mode. Anyone recommend it off?

 

[vkbest]

What I hate about the Pro (and I have one) is that Cerny did a Bait and Switch with the whole “don’t have to choose”

Before we had Performance, Quality and, sometimes, Balanced. Now we have Performance, Performance Pro, Quality, Quality Pro, Balanced, Balanced Pro, Pro mode and Pro Max.

Add to all this PSSR Toggles and HFR toggles, plus sharpness sliders that often improve the “shadows” or remove artifacts from PSSR… are we PC now bois?

If I wanted to tinker with the game, either go all in and let us literally break the machine open, upgrade our hardware and install whatever OS we want, or make it dummy proof (have a director decide the optimal way to present the game, where the only alternatives are having certain features automatically activate if your Display allows it).

First he didn’t say you would see one mode. He said you could play comparable to quality 30fps modes at 60fps. Second they showed several games had several modes, some of them were described the same day in PSN blog. Third, they can’t and shouldn’t force third party to make only one mode.

Last, people want different things. Some want 120fps, other 60fps, other prefer graphics, RT or resolution over framerate. If PSSR is not good enough yet, games should have the option to disable.

If you can’t decide between 2 or 3 modes it’s your problem, not a console problem.

 

[MaKTaiL]

What I hate about the Pro (and I have one) is that Cerny did a Bait and Switch with the whole “don’t have to choose”

Before we had Performance, Quality and, sometimes, Balanced. Now we have Performance, Performance Pro, Quality, Quality Pro, Balanced, Balanced Pro, Pro mode and Pro Max.

Add to all this PSSR Toggles and HFR toggles, plus sharpness sliders that often improve the “shadows” or remove artifacts from PSSR… are we PC now bois?

If I wanted to tinker with the game, either go all in and let us literally break the machine open, upgrade our hardware and install whatever OS we want, or make it dummy proof (have a director decide the optimal way to present the game, where the only alternatives are having certain features automatically activate if your Display allows it).

That's not Cerny's fault. Devs decide what modes they want to include in their games.

 

[TehGoomba7s]

The fact that they are updating games to be able to remove PSSR is not a good look for the PS5 Pro

It's a terrible look for the developers. Outing themselves as incompetent. The great patches speak for themselves. But you'll choose to ignore that of course.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Lol, that joke is dead. Bloodborne plays better on PC than it ever did on PS.

Some issues to iron out and make it perfect, but it's no longer a valid retort.

There is a patch to disable those "http calls".

 

[saintjules]

 

[StreetsofBeige]

It's a little funny to me that people are adding options to turn off PSSR. It's literally one of the major selling points of the Pro hardware.

I guess people have more work to do to harness the true potential of it.

It's one of those things right now that is hit or miss.

On the other hand, when XSX and PS5 were BC auto-boosting old games with better load times, better AF or better/more stable frame rates, it's not like you could turn it off. Those things only made the game better. I dont think there was ever a time from what I remember it made it worse.