Support NeoGAF

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I

Its a hit or miss in this early stage. Having a toggle is a good thing. PSSR is a lot better in AW2 than fsr tho, especially in performance mode

It's definitely sharper in perf mode but FSR looks better in Fidelity mode ...less artifacting and a more natural look ...also, rt reflections are less noisy

Those are my impressions after an hour and a half of testing anyway

 

[Gonzito]

It's a terrible look for the developers. Outing themselves as incompetent. The great patches speak for themselves. But you'll choose to ignore that of course.

 

[MaKTaiL]

That analogy doesn't even make any sense.

 

[Codeblew]

With 120hz and VRR becoming more widely available, I think it makes sense to have toggles with PSSR and RT. Want the best image quality, turn off PSSR and turn on RT. Want the best framerate, turn off RT and turn on PSSR. Want a mix, do that instead. It is still nowhere close to PC where there are 50 things to toggle, many with multiple choices.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

People are looking at the option to turn off PSSR as a bad thing, when it’s really not. The PS5 Pro is supposed to be a, “pro” device, per the name, and marketed towards the more hardcore enthusiast crowd. Having more options to tweak the graphical settings in a game, and tailor the experience to how you want is ultimately a net positive, and is part of the reason why so many love to game on PC.

If you market your piece of tech as, “pro”, then absolutely give me the ability to tweak things a bit. “It’s still a console!” Yeah, but said console is also $700+, and is meant to be an entry into “higher quality gaming”, no? It doesn’t matter if the option to turn off PSSR is ironic, if doing so helps improve the experience for a specific game, then hell yeah it should be in the settings.

Spoken Truth.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

The one thing this update seriously lacks is the ability to turn RT off in Fidelity mode (like GT7)...that way, the number one issue, image quality/aliasing, would FINALLY be resolved (mostly). A higher internal resolution would work wonders and frankly, it's bizarre that Remedy keeps taking half steps to fix it.

You were so close yet so far away Remedy.

 

[MaKTaiL]

The one thing this update seriously lacks is the ability to turn RT off in Fidelity mode (like GT7)...that way, the number one issue, image quality/aliasing, would FINALLY be resolved (mostly). A higher internal resolution would work wonders and frankly, it's bizarre that Remedy keeps taking half steps to fix it.

You were so close yet so far away Remedy.

Yeah, RT OFF + Higher base resolution + PSSR would do wonders.

 

[Ogbert]

‘Targets’ 40 fps.

 

[Elios83]

I've tried balanced mode a bit and for me PSSR and FSR are pretty much the same in this game.
They're really close.
PSSR has slightly sharper details like vegetation and hair.

PSSR

FSR2

FSR2

PSSR

Also PSSR has less shimmer on reflective objects like glasses:


instead FSR2:



But overall they're really close, the Pro benefit here is 40fps with ray traced reflections.

 

[proandrad]

The one thing this update seriously lacks is the ability to turn RT off in Fidelity mode (like GT7)...that way, the number one issue, image quality/aliasing, would FINALLY be resolved (mostly). A higher internal resolution would work wonders and frankly, it's bizarre that Remedy keeps taking half steps to fix it.

You were so close yet so far away Remedy.

At this point it’s just them being stubborn trying to force ray-tracing.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I've tried balanced mode a bit and for me PSSR and FSR are pretty much the same in this game.
They're really close.
PSSR has slightly sharper details like vegetation and hair.

PSSR

FSR2

FSR2

PSSR

Also PSSR has less shimmer on reflective objects like glasses:


instead FSR2:



But overall they're really close, the Pro benefit here is 40fps with ray traced reflections.

PSSR is a hair more crisp going by the vegetation and her hair.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

People are looking at the option to turn off PSSR as a bad thing, when it’s really not.

It's a vote of no confidence on PSSR really.

 

[Skifi28]

I've tried balanced mode a bit and for me PSSR and FSR are pretty much the same in this game.
They're really close.
PSSR has slightly sharper details like vegetation and hair.


Also PSSR has less shimmer on reflective objects like glasses:


instead FSR2:



But overall they're really close, the Pro benefit here is 40fps with ray traced reflections.

I imagine the biggest difference will be in motion where FSR2 has a tendency to turn into soup.

 

[Elios83]

PSSR is a hair more crisp going by the vegetation and her hair.

Yes I noticed it as well but quite frankly we're talking about "it's the same picture" material.
In this game PSSR doesn't make much difference compared to FSR2 whereas in other games it can be transformative (including Black Myth Wukong a few days ago).
A few elements are sharper and less shimmery, that's all.

Still this update is good because it gives us 40fps with ray tracing on the Pro and with the toggle people can immediately see reality by themselves.

 

[Elios83]

I imagine the biggest difference will be in motion where FSR2 has a tendency to turn into soup.

You can see in the videos I posted that it softens shimmering elements a bit, it's noticeable around the edges of doors, glasses and the likes.
Still the difference is minimal and PSSR is ineffective at being transformative in this game compared to FSR2. I don't know the technical reasons, probably it's a combination of low res, noisy ray traced elements and heavy post processing.
But certainly it's not worsening.

 

[Luipadre]

I tried every mode. Performance mode still has drops, not stable at all, 30 fps... yeah no thanks. Balanced mode seems locked 40 from what i played with better lighting, shadows than performance mode and RT reflections. Also i vastly prefer PSSR. It has a cleaner and crisper image, lot more detail and no shitty FSR artifacts.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Yeah, RT OFF + Higher base resolution + PSSR would do wonders.

Yes! Now watch Remedy stop working on the Pro ...

 

[Fake]

That analogy doesn't even make any sense.

Don't mind him. He is a little upset.

I would too.

 

[Elios83]

In performance mode PSSR is much better than FSR2 in motion.

Just look at this soup of shiny dots with FSR2:


PSSR isn't able to get completely rid of it but it's much much better:



Still balanced is the best way to play this game, it offers ray tracing and it's clearly a step up compared to what base PS5 can offer.
But this game in general is just not a killer app for the Pro capabilities.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

That 40fps mode with PSSR actually looks pretty nice. I might pick this up on sale down the road now.

 

[Elios83]

An other example, here PSSR completely removes the shimmering artifacts of FSR2 on the guitar and curtain, performance mode.

FSR2


PSSR

 

[Doctor Hades]

It's a little funny to me that people are adding options to turn off PSSR. It's literally one of the major selling points of the Pro hardware.

I guess people have more work to do to harness the true potential of it.

Yes, this is not a great look for the PS5 Pro when one of its three key selling features is being patched to be optional because the image quality is inferior to the base PS5 when it is used in some Pro enhanced games. And even those good PSSR games have issues versus the base system such as increased aliasing and issues with resolving fine mesh fences in F1 24 for example. Even Gran Turismo 7 looks arguably worse with PSSR than it does without.

I get that this technology will improve over time, much like DLSS did, but if PSSR wasn't quite ready for showtime then why didn't Sony just hold the feature back until it *was* ready? The Pro still has enough of a GPU boost, plus a small CPU bump, to offer better visuals in Pro enhanced games by upping the resolution and locking better to 30/60 fps framerate targets. It's quite telling that the games with the best image quality by far are the two Horizon games and they do not use PSSR. If they had used it then I'm sure this would have been another game upscaled from a lower resolution with flickering, aliasing and other visual artefacts.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Yes, this is not a great look for the PS5 Pro when one of its three key selling features is being patched to be optional because the image quality is inferior to the base PS5 when it is used in some Pro enhanced games. And even those good PSSR games have issues versus the base system such as increased aliasing and issues with resolving fine mesh fences in F1 24 for example. Even Gran Turismo 7 looks arguably worse with PSSR than it does without.

I get that this technology will improve over time, much like DLSS did, but if PSSR wasn't quite ready for showtime then why didn't Sony just hold the feature back until it *was* ready?

Because there are enough examples of it working properly and improving images drastically enough to prove its point. That some developers struggled with it (and thus, put out updates knowing that they weren't ready for prime time) is not on PSSR. The option to disable it should have been given from the beginning, as it's an enthusiast's machine. That's one of the reasons why PC succeeds.

 

[Skifi28]

In performance mode PSSR is much better than FSR2 in motion.

Just look at this soup of shiny dots with FSR2:


PSSR isn't able to get completely rid of it but it's much much better:



Still balanced is the best way to play this game, it offers ray tracing and it's clearly a step up compared to what base PS5 can offer.
But this game in general is just not a killer app for the Pro capabilities.

This is what I had in mind. Using stills to compare upscalers is not a very good practice considering it's in motion that FSR falls apart.

 

[Luipadre]

An other example, here PSSR completely removes the shimmering artifacts of FSR2 on the guitar and curtain, performance mode.

FSR2


PSSR

As i said, PSSR is so much better in AW2. I take it anyday over FSR

 

[Bojji]

Yes, this is not a great look for the PS5 Pro when one of its three key selling features is being patched to be optional because the image quality is inferior to the base PS5 when it is used in some Pro enhanced games. And even those good PSSR games have issues versus the base system such as increased aliasing and issues with resolving fine mesh fences in F1 24 for example. Even Gran Turismo 7 looks arguably worse with PSSR than it does without.

I get that this technology will improve over time, much like DLSS did, but if PSSR wasn't quite ready for showtime then why didn't Sony just hold the feature back until it *was* ready? The Pro still has enough of a GPU boost, plus a small CPU bump, to offer better visuals in Pro enhanced games by upping the resolution and locking better to 30/60 fps framerate targets. It's quite telling that the games with the best image quality by far are the two Horizon games and they do not use PSSR. If they had used it then I'm sure this would have been another game upscaled from a lower resolution with flickering, aliasing and other visual artefacts.

It wasn't ready for third party engines for sure. Even fucking FSR2 can be better in some games (timestamped):



In both Avatar and SW:O FSR2 wins.

 

[Elios83]

It wasn't ready for third party engines for sure. Even fucking FSR2 can be better in some games (timestamped):



In both Avatar and SW:O FSR2 wins.

Or it's a minority of devs that didn't have the time to understand how to implement the technology in their pipeline and how they should tune things in a way that works for their game and they rushed patches?
Black Myth Wukong just ruined the narrative that PSSR doesn't work well with UE5 and Lumen for example.

 

[DanielG165]

It's a vote of no confidence on PSSR really.

It’s ultimately budding tech that will have both teething problems, and larger ones . DLSS wasn’t the strongest nor most effective in its first integration either.

 

[mckmas8808]

The fact that they are updating games to be able to remove PSSR is not a good look for the PS5 Pro

I do t think you understand how upscalers work.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Did they fix the motion blur issues?

 

[TGO]

I've tried balanced mode a bit and for me PSSR and FSR are pretty much the same in this game.
They're really close.
PSSR has slightly sharper details like vegetation and hair.

PSSR

FSR2

FSR2

PSSR

Also PSSR has less shimmer on reflective objects like glasses:


instead FSR2:



But overall they're really close, the Pro benefit here is 40fps with ray traced reflections.

But as I said before, PSSR resolves more details in stills, but the actual unpaused imagine is a artifact mess (you don't see those details because it fuzzing around)
FSR has problems too that PSSR resolves by making them softer.

At this point it’s just them being stubborn trying to force ray-tracing.

It offers nothing outside of Raytraying, removing it would just be the standard PS5 version.

 

[Bojji]

Or it's a minority of devs that didn't have the time to understand how to implement the technology in their pipeline and how they should tune things in a way that works for their game and they rushed patches?
Black Myth Wukong just ruined the narrative that PSSR doesn't work well with UE5 and Lumen for example.

Any good analysis of Wukong?

Even outside game specific problems PSSR has this noise on screen ("film grain") in almost every game.

 

[Elios83]

Any good analysis of Wukong?

Even outside game specific problems PSSR has this noise on screen ("film grain") in almost every game.

I don't know but I actually have the console and the game.
And in Wukong PSSR is a fantastic update, no need for others to tell me what I should think.

 

[Gonzito]

I do t think you understand how upscalers work.

Probably much better than you

 

[TGO]

I don't know but I actually have the console and the game.
And in Wukong PSSR is a fantastic update, no need for others to tell me what I should think.

 

[LordOcidax]

40fps is big.

Didnt test pssr on and off but 40 fps looks great.

Just joking… i love my Switch

 

[Rudius]

Just joking… i love my Switch

40fps would be a good alternative for the Switch 2, when it can handle that.

 

[skit_data]

These PSSR issues are a headscratcher. I get the impression the software side of it came in a little hot and that it works well on some engines but poorly with others.
I guess the upside is that hopefully most if not all of the kinks wil be worked out in time for PS6. I'm leaning more and more towards just staying with the base model til then even if I by some dumb luck got ahold of a "cheap" Pro. My TV is simply too old to benefit
Crazy to think I got my launch digital model day 1 for 4900 SEK. The new digital is over 6000 SEK now, whereas the Pro is currently sitting at 11000 SEK. A fucking steal in retrospect.

 

[Shane89]

The fact that they are updating games to be able to remove PSSR is not a good look for the PS5 Pro

so DLSS is sh!t based on your brain

 

[Ronin_7]

It's a vote of no confidence on PSSR really.

This post will age badly.

 

[bundylove]

Just joking… i love my Switch

And i love my 5k tv that has 120hz vrr and will make use of this feature

 

[proandrad]

It offers nothing outside of Raytraying, removing it would just be the standard PS5 version.

They can offer a higher base resolution without wasting resources on ray tracing for better IQ.

 

[blastprocessor]

An other example, here PSSR completely removes the shimmering artifacts of FSR2 on the guitar and curtain, performance mode.

FSR2


PSSR

You know putting the option to disable PSSR might not have been a bad idea at least people can see how much worse FSR really is instead of people pile driving into PSSR as though it's the culprit all the time.

 

[Physiognomonics]

I imagine the biggest difference will be in motion where FSR2 has a tendency to turn into soup.

we can already see plenty of artefacts on the FSR2 image on the vegetation here. I can't imagine how worse it's going to be in motion.

 

[Tqaulity]

You know putting the option to disable PSSR might not have been a bad idea at least people can see how much worse FSR really is instead of people pile driving into PSSR as though it's the culprit all the time.

The thing that bothers me is that most people complaining about PSSR quality looking so bad or worst than FSR either A) Don't have a PS5 PRO and are judging purely from internet screens/videos or B) Never played the game on the base PS5 in person to have an accurate point of comparison.

Look back at my post history, I posted my review of the PS5 PRO where I mentioned that Alan Wake 2 was one of the first games that actually made me feel like the PRO was a meaningful upgrade over the base. Having played the game in full on a base PS5 (in fidelity mode at that), it was immediately obvious that both the PRO's fidelity mode and performance mode looked of higher quality than the base. Performance mode looked much better than the base performance mode and was comparable to the base fidelity mode. But the difference is that the image even in the perf mode was sharper on the PRO than either of the modes on the base....clearly due to PSSR. The advantages of PSSR over FSR in this title was clearly noticeable. Is it perfect? No! Does it still show noise and grain? Yes! But the point is that it was much improved over the base PS5 version since that version also has a ton of artifacts and noise with FSR.

Many of the games people love to complain about really aren't that bad in person and while there are issues, the good outweigh the bad. This includes titles like Black Ops 6, Dragon Age Veilguard, and Star Wars Outlaws. Playing these titles in person on a high quality 4K screen and seeing them in motion (where PSSR shows consistent advantages...don't know why everyone wants to draw conclusions based purely on stills), it's painfully obvious that they still look better than the base PS5 even with whatever issues are present. The only titles where the issues are so egregious that it's notably worse than the base versions are Jedi Survivor, Silent Hill 2, and Avatar's performance modes. Those patches should have never passed QA and the devs need to spend more time optimizing for the PRO and PSSR.

Having sampled roughly 30 games on the PRO myself, PSSR delivers better quality in 95% of the titles I've seen and in many cases, the difference can be stark!

 

[TGO]

They can offer a higher base resolution without wasting resources on ray tracing for better IQ.

Isn't 2176 x 1224 in quality mode, I mean they could and I doubt the Pro is being used efficiently enough for just RT at that resolution given the quality of it.
1440p with the current RT should be possible but what do I know.
But if it is then yes better resolution would be possible, not sure why it has dogshit SSR either, and even the mirrors are a joke in comparison to something like TLOU.
But these games are being made with RT in mind and everything else is an afterthought.
And that's the problem.

Tqaulity
I've posted captures in this thread, it is instantly noticeable that PSSR is an unstable fuzzy mess, don't get me wrong FSR still has problems.
But it resolves a sold image that don't look like YouTube compression.
The parts where "it looks better" due to shimmering is because it's softer in those areas and isn't visible as much..

 

[Fake]

It wasn't ready for third party engines for sure. Even fucking FSR2 can be better in some games (timestamped):



In both Avatar and SW:O FSR2 wins.

Looks like PSSR was a rushed tech. Losing for FSR is embarrassing.

Even the worst PSSR implementation should do better than FSR, third party or not.

 

[awwr999999]

It's a little funny to me that people are adding options to turn off PSSR. It's literally one of the major selling points of the Pro hardware.

As far as acronyms go PSSR is a big fail. Technically speaking 'upscaling' is a big fail that makes no logical sense.
Using valuable system resources to stretch out a SD display to take up more space on a bigger 4k TV.
The only point of a bigger 4k TV is to show added detail which isn't there.
Sony damaged PlayStation and gaming as a whole by taking away SD TVs and they could make the problem go away with the snap of their fingers.
Ultra Fast OLED SD display.

 

[Bernardougf]

I honestly wish I could enjoy 40 fps modes... they feel to my eyes as dogshit as 30 fps ... yes is an improvement but barely...

 

[mrqs]

I honestly wish I could enjoy 40 fps modes... they feel to my eyes as dogshit as 30 fps ... yes is an improvement but barely...

As with anything in life, if you keep at it, your brain gets used to it. We all played 30fps games on several generations. It's fine.

The problem is when you switch between the modes. Of course, everyone would 'prefer' a smoother image. But that doesn't mean that 30fps isn't completely fine to play.

I always prefer higher resolutions and the best visuals, so I always stick to the 30fps mode and, if there's one, 40fps / HFR unlocked fps.

Everyone played all of Destiny 1 at 30 fps and loved it. It had stellar gunplay. It's all about getting used to it, and it doesn't take that long. I'd say 30 minutes to an hour is more than enough for you to not care anymore in most good games.