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Aldnoah Zero Season 2 |OT| Inaho or Out, It's All The Slaine

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B

Basileus777

Member
That Saazbaum scene actually worked pretty well for me. His character was one of my larger problems with the writing and this episode did something to salvage it and the mess of writing surrounding the Martians. It needed to happen much sooner, but at least now there's something compelling about Saazbaum.
 
J

Jarmel

Banned
Basileus777 said:
That Saazbaum scene actually worked pretty well for me. His character was one of my larger problems with the writing and this episode did something to salvage it and the mess of writing surrounding the Martians. It needed to happen much sooner, but at least now there's something compelling about Saazbaum.
Click to expand...

The other aspect of Saazbaum's stuff is how much of it fabricated or exaggerated for Slaine's benefit. He's very much a manipulator. I do expect almost all of it is true but he probably left out a few detail.
 
D

duckroll

Member
I think the problem with making all these Martians just so crazy is that it's pretty much impossible to relate to them. The way it's being written doesn't really help because everyone comes off as totally insane, just insane in different ways. Once the setting presumes that characters are so over the top that their logic and rationale are based on things no one can ever relate to or understand, it's pretty hard to develop them as character people actually care about. It's just too contrived to care about imo. Works well when the action starts and they're just crazy dudes with super powered mechs and you laugh at the insanity though. :p
 
D

darkblade77

Member
duckroll said:
Episode 9

That was a pretty dumb character-centric episode. They had a few different things going on in the episode - Rayet's unhappiness, Slaine's "rescue", and the PTSD treatment. The sad thing about the writing on this show is that none of it really exists for actual character development or natural narrative progress. Instead everything feels designs to exist only to feed the audience pieces of information which were deliberately being withheld for dramatic purposes. There were any number of flashbacks they could have used to show what really happened to Humery. Instead they dragged it out and in the end it's nothing shocking or surprising.

The debt Saazbaum feels he owes Slaine's father is another example of how they withheld information to make character decisions look more random or stupid, only to reveal it in the most matter of fact way which makes the characters look even more artificial and stupid. The narrative logic is all over the place and does nothing to build characters effectively. Instead when they need something "dramatic" to happen, they just force it into the script - the final scene in the episode is exactly that. It's forced, and instead of being shocking it comes off as stupid.
Click to expand...

This does sum up some of the discomfort I've had with the writing but couldn't pin down. Sometimes the story is delivered in a way that makes me feel like the show is reacting to itself, or like the author is looking back x 'chapters' and realizes that this or that plot thread needs to start making actual sense right now.
 
Z

Zolf

Member
I don't understand the hate at all; this has been great. If it keeps it up, it'll be the best mech show since Code Geass.
 
J

Jarmel

Banned
duckroll said:
I think the problem with making all these Martians just so crazy is that it's pretty much impossible to relate to them. The way it's being written doesn't really help because everyone comes off as totally insane, just insane in different ways. Once the setting presumes that characters are so over the top that their logic and rationale are based on things no one can ever relate to or understand, it's pretty hard to develop them as character people actually care about. It's just too contrived to care about imo. Works well when the action starts and they're just crazy dudes with super powered mechs and you laugh at the insanity though. :p
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I would say the last two episodes have gone to some lengths to seemingly fix that. The issue is whether the rest of the society is like Saazbaum or Count X who just kills things.

The show has repeatedly stated how screwed up Martian society is and the Counts are a byproduct of that. What the audience needs to see is the smaller level Martians and how they view all of these events.

darkblade77 said:
This does sum up some of the discomfort I've had with the writing but couldn't pin down. Sometimes the story is delivered in a way that makes me feel like the show is reacting to itself, or like the author is looking back x 'chapters' and realizes that this or that plot thread needs to start making actual sense right now.
Click to expand...

I have to see how things progress forward but I feel it's more like the writer is catching up. Like he was thrown this script and he's trying to adjust to all the story elements.
 
D

darkblade77

Member
Of mild note, we're out of Martians of the Week since two episodes ago, and offing Cruhteo last episode leaves us up with a grand total of two enemy Martian faces of note: Saazbaum himself and the King.

They did bring up that not all the Landing Castles had made a descent to Earth yet this episode, so I wonder if there is yet another faction of varying opinion with the Orbital Knights.
 
J

Jarmel

Banned
darkblade77 said:
Of mild note, we're out of Martians of the Week since two episodes ago, and offing Cruhteo last episode leaves us up with a grand total of two enemy Martian faces of note: Saazbaum himself and the King.

They did bring up that not all the Landing Castles had made a descent to Earth yet this episode, so I wonder if there is yet another faction of varying opinion with the Orbital Knights.
Click to expand...

One thing this show has been awful about is worldbuilding. We know literally four Martians that are still alive at this point: Hime(maybe haha), her assistant, Saazbaum, and the King. Everybody else is dead or absent.
 
F

Frog-fu

Banned
I fear the possibility that Saazbaum is somehow going to get Slaine on his side and turn him into an antagonist in the second season, assuming there is one. It could happen for a number of reasons; if Asseylum is dead, he'll be baying for blood, and if Asseylum and Inaho become a thing, I could see that being his
dumb
justification. He could also just try to do right by Asseylum even if she won't approve.

Inaho VS Slaine seems to be set in stone, one way or another.
 
F

fertygo

Member
duckroll said:
I think the problem with making all these Martians just so crazy is that it's pretty much impossible to relate to them. The way it's being written doesn't really help because everyone comes off as totally insane, just insane in different ways. Once the setting presumes that characters are so over the top that their logic and rationale are based on things no one can ever relate to or understand, it's pretty hard to develop them as character people actually care about. It's just too contrived to care about imo. Works well when the action starts and they're just crazy dudes with super powered mechs and you laugh at the insanity though. :p
Click to expand...

I'll argue the Saazbaum stuff on this episode is at least different and opposite of Rayet and PTSD thing.

Its pretty easy to digest despite being extremist, like something that came out from Richard Dawkins lol
You get the point while you want argue the shit of it from the obvious subjective value.

For other thing I can understand where you come from, but I never the type that feeling the emotional attachment to being "relate-able" is really necessary for me to enjoy fiction story.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Yes I think the Saazbaum stuff is the best material in the episode. No doubt about that. It actually adds something to his character. But considering how silly the other stuff is, it's a really low bar. I think the fundamental problem is that instead of being "omg he's so stupid!" with regards to Saazbaum, it's "explained" that the situation is actually "omg they're all so crazy!" instead. Which, well, doesn't really make him -that- much more interesting really. It explains his motivations, but the logic behind the motivations are still very much over the top and kinda insane.

I don't think relatable has to mean that we "like" a character. There are lots of shows where I hate the guts of almost all the characters and still enjoy it. Here it's more about how implausible the nature of these characters are. They try so hard to make them seem uniquely different from how normal humans think, but it just makes the setting seem more stupid, not really more unique.
 
Z

Zolf

Member
The Return of said:
This means very little when you take into account there hasn't been any great mech shows in a very long time
Click to expand...

That's true; I can only think of two mecha anime within the last several years that were, in my opinion, not completely terrible: GBF and Gargantia, and Gargantia isn't really a traditional mecha anime.
 
Sakura

Sakura

Member
Just finished watching it. What a bad episode. The plot is just so bad in this show, though it is not surprising when it is an Urobuchi work. I just don't know how I am supposed to take this Martians vs Earth people shit seriously when pretty much every Martian was either born on Earth or has parents that were.
If the Mars Princess truly is dead I am dropping this show.
 
B

Bombless

Member
The OT title should be edited to indicate there's unmarked spoilers all over the last few pages. And no small spoilers either.

This episode was incredible. It does fit the overall pace but damn, that was something.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
Bombless said:
The OT title should be edited to indicate there's unmarked spoilers all over the last few pages. And no small spoilers either.

This episode was incredible. It does fit the overall pace but damn, that was something.
Click to expand...

It's standard for TV threads to only tag spoilers until the episode airs.
 
V

victreeb3l

Member
BassForever said:
She was part of a group that was attempting to start a war by assassinating the princess of an entire planet, no she is not a victim she is an equal part of the conspiracy.
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Well I'm sure this plan has been in works for a long time, and at the end of the day shes still a kid thats been indoctrinated. Doesnt absolve her of her crimes, but I'm a teeny bit more sympathetic. She will probably get caught and be interrogated by Marsbarragggeeee
 
kiunchbb

kiunchbb

www.dictionary.com
If the
princess really died/brain dead, without pulling another Gundam 00 or Yamato
then I say Rayet saved the show. To be honest the whole show had been pretty mediocre with some awesome robot actions.

Let's hope that
they will use the princess brain dead body to run the ship. The drama will be delicious!
 
F

Finalow

Member
some character development? Did I watch the wrong anime
that Saazbaum scene wasn't actually bad, finally a villain with some characterization and reasons, even if they're not really that surprsing or original.
Marito, again not really surprsing that he had such a trauma after we saw him cry, whine and be useless for 8 episodes or so, really this scene should have been done before instead of being forced into this episode.
the Rayet ending felt just stupid, to be honest. I mean, if you're in that state, you don't go around during all the previous episodes doing nothing and then you snap like that while taking a shower. she saw the purple mech in the simulation! She totally didn't remember his dad being murdered 3 days ago, yeah. I mean, if they wanted to build that scene they had to do so in the previous episodes, that way the ending wouldn't probably have been this dumb and random.

*apparently Inaho's sister can tell if Inaho is happy, thirsty or whatever. fraud confirmed
 
F

Frog-fu

Banned
AdrianWerner said:
Uh..no. His backstory? Yeah. But the current story? Nah
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Uh... yes. He's actually interacting with villains in interesting ways, rather than effortlessly outsmarting and dispatching them with absurd efficiency. His scenes are carrying this show for me.

Inaho on the other hand is bland, boring and generally uninteresting to me. He seems to be the result of the author's narcissistic projections. Much like Kirito in Sword Art Online, though perhaps even worse.
 
R

Raytow

Member
Frog-fu said:
Uh... yes. He's actually interacting with villains in interesting ways, rather than effortlessly outsmarting and dispatching them with absurd efficiency. His scenes are carrying this show for me.

Inaho on the other hand is bland, boring and generally uninteresting to me. He seems to be the result of the author's narcissistic projections. Much like Kirito in Sword Art Online, though perhaps even worse.
Click to expand...
It makes Kira Jesus look like a scrub, so the Gary Stu is godly with this one, lol.
 
Wiktor

Wiktor

Member
Frog-fu said:
Uh... yes. He's actually interacting with villains in interesting way.
Click to expand...

No. he;s not. He's bassicaly living punching bag. You could remove the guy from the story and just place random victims for martians and it would be exactly the same thing. Slaine is so far completely worthless to this story. I hope there's something more for him than being wall for other characters to stuck their notes on.
 
F

Frog-fu

Banned
AdrianWerner said:
No. he;s not. He's bassicaly living punching bag. You could remove the guy from the story and just place random victims for martians and it would be exactly the same thing. Slaine is so far completely worthless to this story. I hope there's something more for him than being wall for other characters to stuck their notes on.
Click to expand...

He's the punching bag that humanises the enemy and pushes elements of the plot through actual, meaningful exposition. We wouldn't know why the plot to assassinate Asseylum unfolded without him.

I'd consider Inaho much more expendable considering all he does is fight the enemy of the week. He could be replaced with any number of characters and the story could have worked just as well without him, perhaps even better, if it were about Slaine trying to reunite with the princess.
 
V

Verelios

Member
Zolf said:
That's true; I can only think of two mecha anime within the last several years that were, in my opinion, not completely terrible: GBF and Gargantia, and Gargantia isn't really a traditional mecha anime.
Click to expand...
Gargantia slowly devolved into pretentious crap, but GBF literally saved mecha and Gundam for me.
Frog-fu said:
He's the punching bag that humanises the enemy and pushes elements of the plot through actual, meaningful exposition. We wouldn't know why the plot to assassinate Asseylum unfolded without him.

I'd consider Inaho much more expendable considering all he does is fight the enemy of the week. He could be replaced with any number of characters and the story could have worked just as well without him, perhaps even better, if it were about Slaine trying to reunite with the princess.
Click to expand...
Inaho would be much more interesting if he was broken down into 3 or 4 characters of differing ability who took down martians. Kind of like team Inaho.
 
M

Maximilian Kolbe

Member
Episode 10 preview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUsqkNXehZA
OsBGeeb.jpg
 
D

darthbob

Member
So, I just finished 9.

Thought Saazbaum was pretty cool while he was explaining shit to Slaine, but then he goes all "BUT MUH WAIFU!" and completely lost interest in him afterwards.

Man, why the hell couldn't Crouton or w/e get in his damn mech and kick this guy's ass?
 
Wiktor

Wiktor

Member
Frog-fu said:
He's the punching bag that humanises the enemy and pushes elements of the plot through actual, meaningful exposition..
Click to expand...

Inactive characters are crap characters, at least when they're supposed to be one of the leads. All of those could be acomplished much better without him.
 
F

Frog-fu

Banned
AdrianWerner said:
Inactive characters are crap characters, at least when they're supposed to be one of the leads. All of those could be acomplished much better without him.
Click to expand...

In what way is Slaine remotely inactive? He's always doing some shit, whether it's tracking down Asseylum, to sneaking behind Crutheo's back to contact the Emperor, to now currently interactive with the villain. You're not making much sense.
 
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