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[spootime]

So riddle me this, why do you think people in Hollywood should be treated any different than someone in their backyard when it comes to laws enforced by universal firearm safety rules?

If someone fucked up in the same scenario, not filming a movie, do you feel they are more legally accountable than an actor?

They have to be. Hollywood is the one exception to a lot of safety rules and that's why its so heavily regulated. Yeah Alex Baldwin maybe should have shot the ground 6 times before he did anything and I'm sure that will haunt him for the rest of his life, but his real fuckup was being a producer and a-list actor on a small screenplay and not fighting to hire and advocate for union professionals.

edit:

Also in your scenario, yes if someone fucks up not filming a move they are absolutely more legally accountable than the actor.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Because it is a business that agrees to abide by certain regulations, files permits, is subject to inspection etc. The guy at the end of the line in a business is the one usually least responsible. You drop a 2 ton weight on someone at work because your manager told you the cable was good up to 4 tons, and the engineering guys didn't do the required maintenance and they never trained you in proper procedure then it's the business and it's poor management that are responsible. You drop a 2 ton weight on your friend in your back yard then you are responsible.

Excellent example.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

I'm coming to the conclusion that everybody will pass the buck, nobody will be held accountable, and 3 weeks from now nobody will give a shit.

New Mexico is a state full of cowards too scared of alienating Pedowood. Baldwin won't be held accountable in the same way you don't hold a 5 year old accountable in similar situations. The incompetent armorer won't be held accountable, because girl power. The family of the victim will get paid a few million to shut the fuck up.

I look forward to Baldwin telling me how much of a danger I am to society for the guns I own that have never killed anybody. (barring the war-era Mosin I own, it certainly took Nazi lives)

 

[sendit]

Familiarize yourself with the concept of multiple redundancies in safety systems then get back to us.

Human error is the cause of multiple redundancy failures.

1. Is it common practice for a actor/actress to check if a real gun is loaded?
2. Is it common to have live rounds around a movie set?
3. Is the actor/actress even qualified to do a safety check on a gun?

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here? My assumption is that live rounds should have never been on the set. You asked why he cocked the gun? A rehearsal of a scene usually invovles acting it out thoroughly. I'm sure this event will highlight the failures of gun control/safety on a movie set. Just like with all safety precautions and enforcement of more stringent rules, someone was usually hurt/killed in the past.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Because it is a business that agrees to abide by certain regulations, files permits, is subject to inspection etc. The guy at the end of the line in a business is the one usually least responsible. You drop a 2 ton weight on someone at work because your manager told you the cable was good up to 4 tons, and the engineering guys didn't do the required maintenance and they never trained you in proper procedure then it's the business and it's poor management that are responsible. You drop a 2 ton weight on your friend in your back yard then you are responsible.

Exactly, now you’re catching on. You’re almost there.

 

[poppabk]

Exactly, now you’re catching on. You’re almost there.

Where do I need to get to?

 

[Torrent of Pork]

I'mma gonna be perfectly honest, for a lot of people ITT fall back on the firearms education you (hopefully) got when you were 8 years old.

If you see a gun, get an adult.

 

[daveonezero]

I'mma gonna be perfectly honest, for a lot of people ITT fall back on the firearms education you (hopefully) got when you were 8 years old.

If you see a gun, get an adult.

They should then apply that to Alec and say he should have asked an adult to check it for him.

Literally actors have said they either witness the armorer prepare the weapon or check it themselves.

It is the policy. If they want to be treated like children with no responsibilities fine. Then they need to make sure they ask the adults in the room.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

They should then apply that to Alec and say he should have asked an adult to check it for him.

Literally actors have said they either witness the armorer prepare the weapon or check it themselves.

It is the policy. If they want to be treated like children with no responsibilities fine. Then they need to make sure they ask the adults in the room.

When my friends bring their guns out to the range with me we all make sure we visibly clear the chamber of any firearm we're getting ready to hand over to each other.

We don't have rich Pedowood plot armor when our fuckups get people killed.

 

[daveonezero]

When my friends bring their guns out to the range with me we all make sure we visibly clear the chamber of any firearm we're getting ready to hand over to each other.

We don't have rich Pedowood plot armor when our fuckups get people killed.

and I bet each of you check if after it is handed to you. It is stupid simple. Not something that requires expertise or a professional. There are children better equipped to handle this than an actor apparently,.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

and I bet each of you check if after it is handed to you. It is stupid simple. Not something that requires expertise or a professional. There are children better equipped to handle this than an actor apparently,.

Yes, yes we do. It takes zero effort to pull the action back to verify yourself with the Mark 1 eyeball that there ain't shit in the chamber.

That being said, you still don't point an unloaded gun at people you aren't preparing to shoot. 'The Shot' doesn't absolve you if you break 'The Rules', unless of course you're an actor where you get off Scott-free with a complementary statuatory rape of a pre-teen.

You or I would be in lockup for the shooting, instead of banging the loli.

 

[jason10mm]

Human error is the cause of multiple redundancy failures.

1. Is it common practice for a actor/actress to check if a real gun is loaded?
2. Is it common to have live rounds around a movie set?
3. Is the actor/actress even qualified to do a safety check on a gun?

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here? My assumption is that live rounds should have never been on the set. You asked why he cocked the gun? A rehearsal of a scene usually invovles acting it out thoroughly. I'm sure this event will highlight the failures of gun control/safety on a movie set. Just like with all safety precautions and enforcement of more stringent rules, someone was usually hurt/killed in the past.

Wrong. Human error is Prevented by multiple redundancy. One person will frequently fuck up. Two people less so. Three? Very rarely.

In this case it looks like 1-2 catastrophic fuck ups. Then here comes Alec. 5 seconds examining his REAL GUN or just not pointing it at people when he pulls the trigger or not pulling the trigger when it is pointed at people and a 9year old boy doesn't need a black suit.

Some of you guys just can't understand safety systems because you live in a world with no risk and no responsibility.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Wrong. Human error is Prevented by multiple redundancy. One person will frequently fuck up. Two people less so. Three? Very rarely.

In this case it looks like 1-2 catastrophic fuck ups. Then here comes Alec. 5 seconds examining his REAL GUN or just not pointing it at people when he pulls the trigger or not pulling the trigger when it is pointed at people and a 9year old boy doesn't need a black suit.

Some of you guys just can't understand safety systems because you live in a world with no risk and no responsibility.

We have become a society where it’s always someone else’s job to keep us safe and keep others safe. So some of us are putting ourselves in Alec’s position and saying, “someone else didn’t do their job and keep me from killing that lady.”

 

[DeepEnigma]

We don't have rich Pedowood plot armor when our fuckups get people killed.

Damm, what a phrase!

 

[JCK75]

what up with the hate against Alec Baldwin?

This is a case of Karma, he's always been a horrible dickhead and he's been harassing Liz Cheyney for years about why her dad has not been arrested for his hunting accident....it's a sad situation where I'd be empathetic towards anyone other than him.

 

[Batiman]

what up with the hate against Alec Baldwin?

He used to make fun of some peoples favourite person.

 

[Alebrije]

Feel sorry for all people involved...Alec B has responsability from my point of view but do not know if that level of resposability will led him to jail.

No matter how this ends but think AB is done...we wont hear from him on the media for a lot of time.

You never point a gun to someone ...its a basic rule..even toy guns can hurt the eye of a person. Its common sense...

 

[NickFire]

Where is this nonsense comming from? THERE WAS AN ARMORER ON THE SET WICH PARTICULAR JOB WAS TO CHECK THAT!
And btw you bunch of hobby Armorers - from behind like when you would open a revolver you dont see if the it is life round or not. From behind they look the same.

And even if this nonsense would be true to some extend - then why did no one around the set bothered to interrupt the shot by going:,, Hey Alec you might wanna check that Gun first" - i tell you way because noboday cared because there was a position filled for exactly that.

Basic gun safety procedures are not nonsense. Not now, not ever.

 

[GulfCoastZilla]

Basic gun safety procedures are not nonsense. Not now, not ever.

how many actors do you really think are inspecting guns when there is a whole crew whose sole job is to do that for them?

 

[jason10mm]

Feel sorry for all people involved...Alec B has responsability from my point of view but do not know if that level of resposability will led him to jail.

No matter how this ends but think AB is done...we wont hear from him on the media for a lot of time.

You never point a gun to someone ...its a basic rule..even toy guns can hurt the eye of a person. Its common sense...

I wish this were true, but I think his ego will have him back to normal in 4-6 months once his lawyers and PR folks can't hold him back anymore. His wife certainly will keep doing her thing.

As an actor this will take a few years to recover from but I don't think he will retire into the sunset. Heck, financially he may be forced into Nic Cage levels of "any role that pays" work. Could be wrong though and he may just fade away.

I'm curious if any of his brothers have said anything, they all have a decent amount of on set firearms experience as well.

 

[NickFire]

how many actors do you really think are inspecting guns when there is a whole crew whose sole job is to do that for them?

Don't know, don't care, and won't make excuses for privileged people who feel they are too important to follow basic gun safety procedures.

Guns are deadly weapons that need to be handled properly at all times. Period.

 

[poppabk]

Feel sorry for all people involved...Alec B has responsability from my point of view but do not know if that level of resposability will led him to jail.

No matter how this ends but think AB is done...we wont hear from him on the media for a lot of time.

You never point a gun to someone ...its a basic rule..even toy guns can hurt the eye of a person. Its common sense...

Again it's not a hard and fast rule on a movie set. The behind the scenes of 3:10 Yuma show people firing live guns directly at a cameraman wearing only a plastic face shield. There is a big difference between real life - where you are pretty much guaranteed that all rounds are real bullets, and a movie set where there should be absolutely zero live rounds other than blanks but where you may have dummy rounds that look almost exactly the same as a real bullet (think all the those scenes in movies where someone dumps all the rounds out of a revolver, or loads or unloads a magazine).

 

[Alebrije]

Again it's not a hard and fast rule on a movie set. The behind the scenes of 3:10 Yuma show people firing live guns directly at a cameraman wearing only a plastic face shield. There is a big difference between real life - where you are pretty much guaranteed that all rounds are real bullets, and a movie set where there should be absolutely zero live rounds other than blanks but where you may have dummy rounds that look almost exactly the same as a real bullet (think all the those scenes in movies where someone dumps all the rounds out of a revolver, or loads or unloads a magazine).

People died before for the same stupid behavior...if I were actor never would point a gun to someone just because it.

But maybe if you are an actor the rules of the world do not apply so you can freely always point guns with no remorse...

 

[sendit]

Wrong. Human error is Prevented by multiple redundancy. One person will frequently fuck up. Two people less so. Three? Very rarely.

In this case it looks like 1-2 catastrophic fuck ups. Then here comes Alec. 5 seconds examining his REAL GUN or just not pointing it at people when he pulls the trigger or not pulling the trigger when it is pointed at people and a 9year old boy doesn't need a black suit.

Some of you guys just can't understand safety systems because you live in a world with no risk and no responsibility.

You’re deliusional if you think human error can be prevented. Until we become fully automated. The biggest risk to error are humans.

Your last statement is pretty fucking stupid as well. Do you even know anyone here personally to make that assumption?

 

[MaulerX]

Alec Baldwin appears to deflect blame by sharing article about ‘Rust’ assistant director

Alec Baldwin retweeted a news article about “Rust” assistant director Dave Halls telling officials he “should have checked” all the rounds during a gun inspection on the mov…

www.nydailynews.com

We already knew he re-tweeted that story but now more and more outlets are starting to raise and eye.

 

[GulfCoastZilla]

Don't know, don't care, and won't make excuses for privileged people who feel they are too important to follow basic gun safety procedures.

Guns are deadly weapons that need to be handled properly at all times. Period.

So basically this has more to do with a certain Hollywood elite to you then “all actors”

 

[jason10mm]

how many actors do you really think are inspecting guns when there is a whole crew whose sole job is to do that for them?

ALL of them if they have the opportunity to do so, ESPECIALLY if they intend to point it at people. Do you really think a responsible actor just accepts what is handed to them, doesn't do even the bare minimum in checking it, and then points the weapon at people and starts jerking the trigger? How many testimonies for ACTUAL ACTORS do we have to post before this sinks in?

All those "shooting at the camera or directly at a person" scenes are carefully choreographed, exhaustively rehearsed, and full of safety redundancies to include multiple checks of weapon function with the actor actively engaged. They are stunts on level with explosions, flipping cars, or jumping off buildings.

 

[jason10mm]

You’re deliusional if you think human error can be prevented. Until we become fully automated. The biggest risk to error are humans.

Your last statement is pretty fucking stupid as well. Do you even know anyone here personally to make that assumption?

I know what some folks here write and it would terrify me if they are in a position that requires safety.

 

[zeorhymer]

Alec Baldwin appears to deflect blame by sharing article about ‘Rust’ assistant director

Alec Baldwin retweeted a news article about “Rust” assistant director Dave Halls telling officials he “should have checked” all the rounds during a gun inspection on the mov…

www.nydailynews.com

We already knew he re-tweeted that story but now more and more outlets are starting to raise and eye.

First rule of thumb in an investigation is to shut up. Not sure why his lawyers aren't putting the muzzle on him. He's making himself look bad by throwing other people under the bus.

 

[NickFire]

So basically this has more to do with a certain Hollywood elite to you then “all actors”

Not at all. You were the one who suggested that he is somehow excused from gun safety rules because there are people on set who are also supposed to take responsibility for gun safety. I was simply responding to your suggestion that he is somehow immune from having to follow BASIC gun safety rules just because he is an actor.

Rejecting the "he's too important to follow gun safety rules himself" argument is not the same as saying special rules apply to him. Doesn't matter if its an actor, cop, or regular joe. The principals of gun safety are the same.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Production should have been halted and safety meetings held after the the misfires. Which was not done, and hence the union workers walked off the set over safety concerns.

Quoting for relevance.

Because this IS standard practice. Why didn't the boss of El Dorado Pictures halt production and hold mandatory safety meetings?

 

[MaulerX]

First rule of thumb in an investigation is to shut up. Not sure why his lawyers aren't putting the muzzle on him. He's making himself look bad by throwing other people under the bus.

Exactly. Which is why I hate how in today's world everything is played out on the court of public opinion (social media).

It's obviously clear he's using the platform to sway and deflect things away from him. Just let the investigation run its course.

 

[DeepEnigma]

what up with the hate against Alec Baldwin?

Alec Baldwin appears to deflect blame by sharing article about ‘Rust’ assistant director

Alec Baldwin retweeted a news article about “Rust” assistant director Dave Halls telling officials he “should have checked” all the rounds during a gun inspection on the mov…

www.nydailynews.com

We already knew he re-tweeted that story but now more and more outlets are starting to raise and eye.

 

[jason10mm]

First rule of thumb in an investigation is to shut up. Not sure why his lawyers aren't putting the muzzle on him. He's making himself look bad by throwing other people under the bus.

Because he KNOWS he is off the hook for criminal charges, thinks his insurance will handle any financial issues, and now he is fighting the war of public opinion.

 

[Tams]

Ultimately, this is not for us to decide. It's for the US judicial system to decide if and what he is guilty of.

It does look like he will be charged with involuntary manslaughter, but I doubt he will face prison time. And my opinion is that he shouldn't. I reckon he'll be back to at least minor roles within a year too.

I think he was extremely naive and reckless. But I'm not surprised that a big shot actor would be. And he was the one who pulled the trigger. But it should never have gotten to the point where a loaded firearm made it onto the set. Him being a producer complicates things a bit, but that still doesn't excuse the failure of the armourer. The majority of the blame surely lies on the her?

 

[jason10mm]

But it should never have gotten to the point where a loaded firearm made it onto the set. Him being a producer complicates things a bit, but that still doesn't excuse the failure of the armourer. The majority of the blame surely lies on the her?

Depends. I can see a scenario where she placed the weapons out, intending to clear them for the day, but the AD went behind her back and took one for the shoot before she finished and she was unaware until it was too late. So hopefully she has a procedure and logbook requiring weapons to be signed over to specific people, documenting that she cleared them for "hot"/"cold" , and documenting that a second person verified it. Then she can show proof that she did her part but the AD jumped the system and took the gun prematurely or maybe she documented that he took it, didn't let her clear it, and she voiced this to a producer and was ignored. In this case she probably gets exonerated to some degree (except for the folks who think she only got the job through white trash nepotism).

I can also see a scenario where she released a cleared empty firearm (and documented it as such) but the AD loaded it later on with what he thought was dummy rounds but included a single live round, not informing the armorer of this. Seems odd to me that they had ANYTHING in what was supposed to be a cold gun, but with revolvers there is the need to fill the chambers with something if there is going to be a close view of the front and perhaps the intent was to later on load a single blank for Alec to fire towards a remote camera or something. In this case most of the blame falls on the AD.

Worst case scenario for the armorer is that SHE knew the gun had stuff in it, failed to inspect each round, handed it to the AD herself, then HE failed to inspect it properly and handed it to Alec, who ALSO failed to inspect it, but was explicitly not required to do so and was then specifically instructed to do what he did, point it at the camera crew and pull the trigger.

We may never know they absolute truth since it seems like this production was rushed, frantic, and likely has a scant paper trail for these weapons and the ammo.

 

[GloveSlap]

This shit barely qualifies as an accident. It would be like walking around the Grand Canyon blindfolded and "accidentally" walking off of a cliff.

Serious mistakes were made in the Brandon Lee incident, but at least you could kinda understand how it happened.

 

[daveonezero]

You’re deliusional if you think human error can be prevented. Until we become fully automated. The biggest risk to error are humans.

Your last statement is pretty fucking stupid as well. Do you even know anyone here personally to make that assumption?

There are 400 million guns and over 100 million owners. negligent discharges are extremely rare because most gun owners understand the consequences of making a mistake and self regulate themselves with new shooters and each other. There is always a redundant safety check when handing off firearms whether live ammo is around or not

Safety is talks are the norm before range time with all the groups I’ve gone with.

Usually negligent discharges are by ignorants not practicing safely.

accidental discharges are even more rare as that would only include mechanical failures something modern firearms don’t have happen unless extremely rare circumstances are created or a manufacturing issue.

 

[daveonezero]

This shit barely qualifies as an accident. It would be like walking around the Grand Canyon blindfolded and "accidentally" walking off of a cliff.

Serious mistakes were made in the Brandon Lee incident, but at least you could kinda understand how it happened.

That is why it was never an accident. It is negligence.

 

[GulfCoastZilla]

ALL of them if they have the opportunity to do so, ESPECIALLY if they intend to point it at people. Do you really think a responsible actor just accepts what is handed to them, doesn't do even the bare minimum in checking it, and then points the weapon at people and starts jerking the trigger? How many testimonies for ACTUAL ACTORS do we have to post before this sinks in?

All those "shooting at the camera or directly at a person" scenes are carefully choreographed, exhaustively rehearsed, and full of safety redundancies to include multiple checks of weapon function with the actor actively engaged. They are stunts on level with explosions, flipping cars, or jumping off buildings.

Can you provide proof of that ?

that all these actors are being handed cold guns and checking themselves?

 

[jason10mm]

Can you provide proof of that ?

that all these actors are being handed cold guns and checking themselves?

You mean other than the articles I've already posted that have interviews from actors saying it and the film folks in this very thread that talk about it?

Can you provide proof of a law or set rule that an actor SHOULDN'T check the gun themselves, or at least see the gun being prepared properly in front of them?

 

[I_D]

Where do I need to get to?

I still argue that I wouldn't even assume it was a functioning gun in the first place. I would have assumed it was just a prop, and not even manipulatable to even check if it can fire. But I'm also not an actor, so maybe real guns are more common than I'm assuming.


But that doesn't really matter, because apparently, in a twist of irony, Baldwin is in charge of production (Or partially? I'm not up to date on it...) of this movie.
As such, he is also in charge of handling all of the vetting for professionals. Or he at least hired the guy who is in charge of vetting professionals.
Baldwin is the guy who paid for the weapon, theoretically. At the very least, Baldwin is the guy who hired the guy who paid for the weapon.


I guess I can see how he would just dump money into a movie, and let everybody else handle the logistics, but that might not be the case. At the very least, that bullet was probably paid for with Baldwin's money.

 

[badblue]

How bad was the armorer? Nic Cage asked for her to be removed from the film he did with her.

Nicolas Cage Demanded Removal Of Inexperienced Rust Armorer From Another Production - SlashFilm

The inexperienced armorer on the set of Rust was responsible for a previous incident involving gun safety on a Nicolas Cage film.

www.slashfilm.com

In another story about this they say that The Old Way was her (Gutierrez-Reed) first movie in charge of weapons.

Cage even walked off set screaming at Gutierrez-Reed after she fired a gun without warning for the second time in three days, the movie’s key grip, Stu Brumbaugh, told the outlet.

“Make an announcement, you just blew my f—ing eardrums out!” Cage yelled before walking off in a rage, Brumbaugh recalled.

Brumbaugh even told the assistant director of the armorer, “She needs to be let go,” he recalled.

According to sources, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed (left) was accused of breaking numerous safety protocols on the set of Nicolas Cages’ film “The Old Way,” causing the actor to leave the set.
“After the second round, I was pissed off. We were moving too fast. She’s a rookie,” he said, saying that it was only after complaining that he found out it was the key crew member’s first movie in charge of weapons.
Brumbaugh detailed a series of complaints that were made about Gutierrez-Reed, including that she walked onto the set with live rounds or blanks without announcing it to the cast and crew.

She also walked around with pistols tucked under her armpits such that they were pointing back at people, and allowed firearms to be aimed at people, Brumbaugh told the Wrap.

[...]
Before the fatal shooting on “Rust,” Gutierrez-Reed — the daughter of Hollywood weapons expert Thell Reed — had admitted not feeling ready for taking on the responsibility when offered “The Old Way” job.

“It was also my first time being head armorer … I was really nervous about it at first, and I almost didn’t take the job because I wasn’t sure if I was ready,” she admitted on a podcast last month.

Hannah Gutierrez-Reed said she felt nervous about being head armorer at first due to her lack of experience.Voices of the West/Facebook
“I think the best part about my job is just showing people who are normally kind of freaked out by guns how safe they can be and how they’re not really problematic unless put in the wrong hands,” Reed said. Brumbaugh blamed movie producers for putting such inexperienced people in key jobs just to save money.

 

[Master Of Illusion]

The is what happens when you have a woman in charge of firearms

 

[jason10mm]

The is what happens when you have a woman in charge of firearms

Oh come on, this comment is just a distraction from the fact that there appears to be little in the way of organized formal training, certification, and regulation of armorers in Hollywood. Her sex is irrelevant so long as she has the requisite experience and training.

 

[Master Of Illusion]

Oh come on, this comment is just a distraction from the fact that there appears to be little in the way of organized formal training, certification, and regulation of armorers in Hollywood. Her sex is irrelevant so long as she has the requisite experience and training.

Extreme sarcasm



















Head

 

[Tams]

Depends. I can see a scenario where she placed the weapons out, intending to clear them for the day, but the AD went behind her back and took one for the shoot before she finished and she was unaware until it was too late. So hopefully she has a procedure and logbook requiring weapons to be signed over to specific people, documenting that she cleared them for "hot"/"cold" , and documenting that a second person verified it. Then she can show proof that she did her part but the AD jumped the system and took the gun prematurely or maybe she documented that he took it, didn't let her clear it, and she voiced this to a producer and was ignored. In this case she probably gets exonerated to some degree (except for the folks who think she only got the job through white trash nepotism).

I can also see a scenario where she released a cleared empty firearm (and documented it as such) but the AD loaded it later on with what he thought was dummy rounds but included a single live round, not informing the armorer of this. Seems odd to me that they had ANYTHING in what was supposed to be a cold gun, but with revolvers there is the need to fill the chambers with something if there is going to be a close view of the front and perhaps the intent was to later on load a single blank for Alec to fire towards a remote camera or something. In this case most of the blame falls on the AD.

Worst case scenario for the armorer is that SHE knew the gun had stuff in it, failed to inspect each round, handed it to the AD herself, then HE failed to inspect it properly and handed it to Alec, who ALSO failed to inspect it, but was explicitly not required to do so and was then specifically instructed to do what he did, point it at the camera crew and pull the trigger.

We may never know they absolute truth since it seems like this production was rushed, frantic, and likely has a scant paper trail for these weapons and the ammo.

That sounds like a lot of cope. You seem to really want her to be innocent in this.

Is it not the job of the armourer to have control over their tools (weapons) as much as possible? Would just leaving weapons, potentially loaded no less, in an accesible location not be a complete dereliction of duty?

Especially when loaded, but also when not, weapons should not leave the person responsible's sight unless they are securely locked away. And even then the person should know where they are.

 

[ntropy]

 

[Virt McPolygon]

Did her famous dad not educate her about firearms when she was 8 years old?

 

[ManaByte]