Support NeoGAF

[FunkMiller]

Because it is unlikely, doesn't mean it's improbably.

Bending gravity, wormholes, FTL, many more options for an intelligent civilization to visit us.

That Feynman clip doesn't tell me anything Carl Sagan didn't tell me already.

Whats a more possible cause for multiple aviators having visual confirmation + radar detecting things that are impossible for humans to posess or pilot. Please, enlighten me.

Yes it does. It absolutely means it's in improbable.

The issue is that unless scientists and other experts say something is impossible, people latch on to that tiny little opening (that exists in most decent, thoughtful and detailed scientific study)... despite the fact that the chances of the thing they desperately want to be real still being vanishingly small. And then all they need to do is bring their layman's knowledge of a topic to bear, and suddenly things seem so much more likely, despite the fact they really aren't if you actually study the science.

For instance, you bring up FTL, as if this is a thing that just needs a bit more scientific knowledge to accomplish. Nope. Nothing can go faster than the speed of light. Nothing ever will. It's a fundamental law of existence. The only possible way in which something like that could even conceivably be possible is if you create a machine that is able to move a bubble of spacetime itself through the fabric of the rest of spacetime. However, this violates some fundamental rules as laid down by Einstein in his theory of general and special relativity.

So... Impossible? No, because only because science - unlike social media - doesn't ever deal in absolutes. But most scientists worth their salt dismiss the idea because it's as near to impossible as it's possible to get, because of the realities of spacetime that laymen just don't understand.

 

[MMaRsu]

Yes it does. It absolutely means it's in improbable.

The issue is that unless scientists and other experts say something is impossible, people latch on to that tiny little opening (that exists in most decent, thoughtful and detailed scientific study)... despite the fact that the chances of the thing they desperately want to be real still being vanishingly small. And then all they need to do is bring their layman's knowledge of a topic to bear, and suddenly things seem so much more likely, despite the fact they really aren't if you actually study the science.

For instance, you bring up FTL, as if this is a thing that just needs a bit more scientific knowledge to accomplish. Nope. Nothing can go faster than the speed of light. Nothing ever will. It's a fundamental law of existence. The only possible way in which something like that could even conceivably be possible is if you create a machine that is able to move a bubble of spacetime itself through the fabric of the rest of spacetime. However, this violates some fundamental rules as laid down by Einstein in his theory of general and special relativity.

So... Impossible? No, because only because science - unlike social media - doesn't ever deal in absolutes. But most scientists worth their salt dismiss the idea because it's as near to impossible as it's possible to get, because of the realities of spacetime that laymen just don't understand.

Your acting like our understanding of physics, nature, behavioural laws are fundamentals that cannot be broken, bend or is within our grasp of understanding.

Maybe when humanity has another 1000 years of technological development, then its still impossible you say? Improbable?

What rules would a spacetime bubble break?

 

[FunkMiller]

Your acting like our understanding of physics, nature, behavioural laws are fundamentals that cannot be broken, bend or is within our grasp of understanding.

Maybe when humanity has another 1000 years of technological development, then its still impossible you say? Improbable?

What rules would a spacetime bubble break?

The speed of light (in a vacuum, which is what is relevant here) is absolutely fundamental, and cannot be broken. Special relativity proved this a long time ago.

A 'warp drive' type spacetime bubble is not possible because to warp spacetime into a bubble in such a manner would require a huge amount of mass. That's how gravity functions, and how spacetime is warped. The mass of an object is the key. And to successfully warp spacetime on any level requires a huge amount of mass. Unless your space ship is the size of UY Scuti, you ain't going to Vulcan at Warp 8 any time soon.

 

[MMaRsu]

The speed of light (in a vacuum, which is what is relevant here) is absolutely fundamental, and cannot be broken. Special relativity proved this a long time ago.

A 'warp drive' type spacetime bubble is not possible because to warp spacetime into a bubble in such a manner would require a huge amount of mass. That's how gravity functions, and how spacetime is warped. The mass of an object is the key. And to successfully warp spacetime on any level requires a huge amount of mass. Unless your space ship is the size of UY Scuti, you ain't going to Vulcan at Warp 8 any time soon.

But seriously, imagine humanity's possible progress in a thousand years. Right now we just came off the agricultural road so to speak. We are a very small technological civilization. We have only just started our technological advancement. We don't even understand all the rules of the universe and creation. How can you say with a straight face it's nigh impossible and improbable, that an advanced civilization visits other planets and researches them.

Just like we do with the animal world, insects etc. We study them but try not to interact with them in our studies.

Why would an advanced intelligent species able to traverse the cosmos not do that? Or how is that improbable in any way shape or form? From the lens of our current understanding of physics, sure. But in thinkin of an advanced civilization, I'm sure they understand and perhaps are able to mess with physics in ways we cannot even understand.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

The fighting of improbable or not.

The reality is RIGHT NOW very credible people are claiming theres people with first hand information on this and that first hand information has gotten to our intelligence committee which then informed the Senate majority Bill that directly mentions the things being suggested by Grusch.

So let's step back and realize there IS a possibility right now despite it seeming improbable. Unless a bunch of people are lying and decided to tell very important people behind closed doors this lie that they saw themselves for some unknown reasons.

 

[FunkMiller]

But seriously, imagine humanity's possible progress in a thousand years. Right now we just came off the agricultural road so to speak. We are a very small technological civilization. We have only just started our technological advancement. We don't even understand all the rules of the universe and creation. How can you say with a straight face it's nigh impossible and improbable, that an advanced civilization visits other planets and researches them.

Just like we do with the animal world, insects etc. We study them but try not to interact with them in our studies.

Why would an advanced intelligent species able to traverse the cosmos not do that? Or how is that improbable in any way shape or form? From the lens of our current understanding of physics, sure. But in thinkin of an advanced civilization, I'm sure they understand and perhaps are able to mess with physics in ways we cannot even understand.

Oh, humanity will progress massively in the next thousand years. But it'll never break the speed of light, because for that humanity to exist for the next thousand years (and the several million years that its already existed, because spacetime), it needs to exist in a universe that has the fundamental rule of e=mc squared - which means the speed of light cannot be broken.

You quote your 'advanced alien civilisation' and you are 100% right to think that other intelligent life exists in the infinite universe, because probability demands it. We are here to make the observation, and therefore others must also exist to make the same observation.

But the distances between us preclude any contact, ever. On any scale of probability. Because, as explained, the speed of light is fundamental to the existence of this universe.

Look, I don't particularly like it anymore than you do, but I can't help how unimaginably vast the universe is. We now believe that as many as a hundred billion earth-like planets could exist in the universe. But even that many would be so spaced out across it, that they will always be too far apart to ever make contact with one another.

Fermi's paradox is solved by distance.

 

[Eiknarf]

Maybe it's all just humans that identify as Aliens?

Like us from the future.

The thing with time travel though, is, as soon as we invent/discover it, we would already have known. Which we don’t know. Which means time travel hasn’t happened yet. Nor will it supposedly

 

[Grildon Tundy]

Did I miss something? When did someone claim the speed of light was broken? What if a drone vehicle created thousands of years ago can go 99% the speed of light? Doesn't that give it enough time to have traveled from other systems to earth?

 

[AcrosstheSea]

Did I miss something? When did someone claim the speed of light was broken? What if a drone vehicle created thousands of years ago can go 99% the speed of light? Doesn't that give it enough time to have traveled from other systems to earth?

I don't like any arrogance that suggests we know what could or couldn't be possible.

Our lives are truly the allegory of the cave. We are locked in this cave seeing shadows and our explanations are based on our theories and our ideas of what we know but there's this whole world outside this cave that we might not have any access to. Our understanding upon accessing it could change our whole belief system. We can't be stubborn to think we have all the answers of what's possible.

 

[FunkMiller]

Did I miss something? When did someone claim the speed of light was broken? What if a drone vehicle created thousands of years ago can go 99% the speed of light? Doesn't that give it enough time to have traveled from other systems to earth?

Unfortunately, even getting close to the speed of light presents a whole slew of problems that very probably dictate it isn't possible. For instance, at speeds close to the speed of light, a single grain of interstellar dust striking the spaceship would do incalculable damage to it. And there's a lot of dust out there. The only way to prevent such a thing happening would be that warp bubble again, which the ship could never possibly have the mass to create.

Also, navigation is nigh-on impossible, due to the warping of spacetime around you, as you speed up. Everything in front of you bends towards the center, and becomes impossibly bright, while everything behind you simply disappears from view because the light can't catch you anymore. Celestial objects stretch out as the light from them hits you at different times, due to relativity, meaning you can't see something properly before you've slammed into it.

Breaking light speed is impossible, but even getting close to it is virtually the same.

Again, I don't like it, but it's the reality of the universe.

 

[MMaRsu]

but it's the reality of the universe.

Well as far as we know anyway

 

[FunkMiller]

Our lives are truly the allegory of the cave. We are locked in this cave seeing shadows and our explanations are based on our theories and our ideas of what we know but there's this whole world outside this cave that we might not have any access to. Our understanding upon accessing it could change our whole belief system.

This is an incorrect reading of our current knowledge about the universe. You posit that we still know very little, like we're caveman sat in a cave looking up at the stars.

However, we are building an extremely good understanding even now of the nature of the observable universe and the laws that govern it. We have the technology to accurately assess the size and make-up of celestial objects hundreds of light years away. We understand the process that creates stars. We understand how spacetime builds and defines the nature of the universe. Observation through all spectrums of light from infra-red to ultra violet allows us to see the universe in increasing levels of detail. Triangulation and parallax means we can accurately assess distance, at least in our local group.

We are not cavemen who know nothing. Far from it. Much more needs to be discovered, but to make the claim that everything we understand now will not apply in a thousand years in comprehensively incorrect.

 

[EddieVanHelgen]

Yes it does. It absolutely means it's in improbable.

The issue is that unless scientists and other experts say something is impossible, people latch on to that tiny little opening (that exists in most decent, thoughtful and detailed scientific study)... despite the fact that the chances of the thing they desperately want to be real still being vanishingly small. And then all they need to do is bring their layman's knowledge of a topic to bear, and suddenly things seem so much more likely, despite the fact they really aren't if you actually study the science.

For instance, you bring up FTL, as if this is a thing that just needs a bit more scientific knowledge to accomplish. Nope. Nothing can go faster than the speed of light. Nothing ever will. It's a fundamental law of existence. The only possible way in which something like that could even conceivably be possible is if you create a machine that is able to move a bubble of spacetime itself through the fabric of the rest of spacetime. However, this violates some fundamental rules as laid down by Einstein in his theory of general and special relativity.

So... Impossible? No, because only because science - unlike social media - doesn't ever deal in absolutes. But most scientists worth their salt dismiss the idea because it's as near to impossible as it's possible to get, because of the realities of spacetime that laymen just don't understand.

Why are we as a species so arrogant to believe that 'rules' devised decades ago by a human being apply on a universal scale? We don't have a clue what's out there or what's possible really.

 

[midnightAI]

Did I miss something? When did someone claim the speed of light was broken? What if a drone vehicle created thousands of years ago can go 99% the speed of light? Doesn't that give it enough time to have traveled from other systems to earth?

Because:
1, alien life would most likely only know of our existence by signals sent from earth, so in that respect, we only sent out detectable signals from earth around 130 years ago (radio waves)
2, even if the above is correct they would have to be looking in the right place and space is incomprehensibly vast.

Edit:
3, with 1 being true, even at the speed of light to get to us they would have to have known about us 130 years ago and still get here so they would actually have to be within 65 light years if they left the moment they detected us to get here now never mind the 60's

 

[FunkMiller]

Why are we as a species so arrogant to believe that 'rules' devised decades ago by a human being apply on a universal scale? We don't have a clue what's out there or what's possible really.

Well, we're not. But what we are is able to study the universe, and see time and time and time and time and spacetime again that those rules are followed.

And, as I've already said, we do indeed 'have a clue' what's out there, and everything discovered since Einstein came up with his theories have only backed them up, over and over again. His genius was beyond anything I think most people really understand.

 

[EddieVanHelgen]

Well, we're not. But what we are is able to study the universe, and see time and time and time and time and spacetime again that those rules are followed.

And, as I've already said, we do indeed 'have a clue' what's out there, and everything discovered since Einstein came up with his theories have only backed them up, over and over again. His genius was beyond anything I think most people really understand.

How do we explain the tic tac in terms of Einstein then?

 

[sw0mp_d0nk3y]

I wonder if Ed ever elaborated on his God comment at the end. I'd be interested to hear his take.

This account about Carter could be 100% true, but the conclusion would require trusting the honesty of beings that don't appear to have our best interests as a priority.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

This account about Carter could be 100% true, but the conclusion would require trusting the honesty of beings that don't appear to have our best interests as a priority.

That's the problem with all of this. Someone is lying to us.

 

[FunkMiller]

How do we explain the tic tac in terms of Einstein then?

There's nothing conclusive or concrete in any of that stuff that proves anything involved is of extra terrestrial origin. And the pilot in question was even quick to say she didn't think it was alien in origin, and much more likely a result of natural phenomenon.

The point being that UAPs are very definitely a thing, but that they are also almost certainly a result of earthbound phenomenon, or human error, or technological malfunction.

Consider for instance, that the areas in which these phenomena have been observed are in sensitive airspace, which would be subject to far more surveillance than other airspaces - and therefore more likely to catch malfunctions, human errors, and natural phenomenon.

Logically and scientifically, it's a very poor leap to make when you go from 'something is unexplained' to 'probably aliens'. The more accurate intuitive leap to make would be 'something in unexplained' but that 'scientific reality dictates that it is most likely a phenomenon originating here on earth'. Occam's razor is a useful tool in such circumstances.

 

[sono]

Varginha UFO Crash: Alien Contact, Government Denial and Coverup

 

[Bartski]

 

[MMaRsu]

The speed of light (in a vacuum, which is what is relevant here) is absolutely fundamental, and cannot be broken. Special relativity proved this a long time ago.

A 'warp drive' type spacetime bubble is not possible because to warp spacetime into a bubble in such a manner would require a huge amount of mass. That's how gravity functions, and how spacetime is warped. The mass of an object is the key. And to successfully warp spacetime on any level requires a huge amount of mass. Unless your space ship is the size of UY Scuti, you ain't going to Vulcan at Warp 8 any time soon.

I mean pure scifi here, but what if you have a gravity drive to create artificial gravity?

 

[MMaRsu]

And the pilot in question was even quick to say she didn't think it was alien in origin, and much more likely a result of natural phenomenon.

Please provide a source for this, because I have seen many interviews with Fravor and Dietrich and have not heard them say anything on that.



Interview with Dietrich.

A flying object making manouvres that are impossible for humans, is probably not a 'natural' phenomenom. Let's be honest here.

 

[FunkMiller]

I mean pure scifi here, but what if you have a gravity drive to create artificial gravity?

Gravity is a very weak force. For it to have any effect it must come from an object with enough mass. Technically every single object with mass in the universe exerts a degree of gravity, but it's obviously so infinitely small that is has no effect. Artificial gravity is sadly a sci-fi thing, because gravity requires mass. The enterprise would have to be the size of earth to create earth like gravity in reality.

Or, gravity can be sustained through centrifugal force, like in 2001. But even that is extremely problematic to get right. And it's not really gravity of course,. In fact, it's the exact opposite mechanism.

 

[FunkMiller]

Please provide a source for this, because I have seen many interviews with Fravor and Dietrich and have not heard them say anything on that.



Interview with Dietrich.

A flying object making manouvres that are impossible for humans, is probably not a 'natural' phenomenom. Let's be honest here.

I'll quote myself like an an asshole:

The point being that UAPs are very definitely a thing, but that they are also almost certainly a result of earthbound phenomenon, or human error, or technological malfunction.

Consider for instance, that the areas in which these phenomena have been observed are in sensitive airspace, which would be subject to far more surveillance than other airspaces - and therefore more likely to catch malfunctions, human errors, and natural phenomenon.

Logically and scientifically, it's a very poor leap to make when you go from 'something is unexplained' to 'probably aliens'. The more accurate intuitive leap to make would be 'something in unexplained' but that 'scientific reality dictates that it is most likely a phenomenon originating here on earth'. Occam's razor is a useful tool in such circumstances.

 

[MMaRsu]

Ok, but what if it IS aliens tho

 

[AcrosstheSea]

Literally none of that matters. Referring to the comments about it's less likely it's aliens.

 

[DosGamer]

What if... and I am just thinking out loud... there was/ were planet(s) that were close enough to black holes to attempt to put a craft thru it like in Interstellar and that is how they are able to travel to us.

In other words, what if the black hole/ worm hole theory is correct how would that change things and what we think?

 

[AcrosstheSea]

What if they were here before us or what if they are interdimensional and are coexisting here? What if they've been hidden under our oceans? I mean there's so many possibilities.

 

[DosGamer]

What if they were here before us or what if they are interdimensional and are coexisting here? What if they've been hidden under our oceans? I mean there's so many possibilities.

Well, if that is the case and they are under the ocean, then even they would have been subject to extinction in the past correct? I mean our oceans have had continents moving and jockeying around for billions of years..... Surely they would have had to deal with the same thing anybody else on earth would have had to deal with.

The other thing about living in the ocean is the pressure that would exists on the craft... going from space to air to water.. the tech for that alone would be worth its weight in gold.
I agree our comprehension of our oceans is ridiculously small.

 

[noonjam]

Church Committee - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

One of the biggest reveleations from the Church committe at the time was the admission that the MKULTRA program was real.

 

[FunkMiller]

What if... and I am just thinking out loud... there was/ were planet(s) that were close enough to black holes to attempt to put a craft thru it like in Interstellar and that is how they are able to travel to us.

In other words, what if the black hole/ worm hole theory is correct how would that change things and what we think?

The Einstein Rosen bridge is a fascinating thing to think about, and the concept of wormholes doesn't break special or general relativity the same way faster than light travel does. Unfortunately, this all only applies on a microscopic level. Once you move out into larger masses, that annoying problem with gravity and its effect on spacetime rears its ugly head again, and the whole thing falls apart. Quite literally, as any possible bridge would be subject to enormous forces of pressure that would likely tear it apart almost instantly. Spaghettification is also unfortunately a thing. The poor old green eyed little friends of ours would find themselves stretched out and torn to itty bitty pieces.

Also, if a theoretical white hole could even form that was large enough to allow matter (like a space craft) to pass through it, it would be spewing material out into the universe at such an enormous rate that any white hole close enough for the aliens to come out of and visit us from would probably be brighter than any star in our skies.

 

[Bartski]

AARO director accuses Grusch of lying under oath

 

[MMaRsu]

AARO director accuses Grusch of lying under oath

I insult this guy of lying.

 

[Bartski]

The Einstein Rosen bridge is a fascinating thing to think about, and the concept of wormholes doesn't break special or general relativity the same way faster than light travel does. Unfortunately, this all only applies on a microscopic level. Once you move out into larger masses, that annoying problem with gravity and its effect on spacetime rears its ugly head again, and the whole thing falls apart. Quite literally, as any possible bridge would be subject to enormous forces of pressure that would likely tear it apart almost instantly.

Also, if a theoretical white hole could even form that was large enough to allow matter (like a space craft) to pass through it, it would be spewing material out into the universe at such an enormous rate that any white hole close enough for the aliens to come out of and visit us from would probably be brighter than any star in our skies.

also a theoretical einstein rosen bridge is impossible to cross upon entering as it would in theory expand to infinity for any object reaching its outlet, so this tech is something else entirely

 

[EddieVanHelgen]

There's nothing conclusive or concrete in any of that stuff that proves anything involved is of extra terrestrial origin. And the pilot in question was even quick to say she didn't think it was alien in origin, and much more likely a result of natural phenomenon.

The point being that UAPs are very definitely a thing, but that they are also almost certainly a result of earthbound phenomenon, or human error, or technological malfunction.

Consider for instance, that the areas in which these phenomena have been observed are in sensitive airspace, which would be subject to far more surveillance than other airspaces - and therefore more likely to catch malfunctions, human errors, and natural phenomenon.

Logically and scientifically, it's a very poor leap to make when you go from 'something is unexplained' to 'probably aliens'. The more accurate intuitive leap to make would be 'something in unexplained' but that 'scientific reality dictates that it is most likely a phenomenon originating here on earth'. Occam's razor is a useful tool in such circumstances.

Have you read anything about the sighting at all? It doesn't have to be aliens, I didn't mention aliens.

Occams razor suggests that if 4 trained top gun pilots have seen something unusual, and it was picked up on radar by two separate carriers, and it was caught on visual recording - that something must have actually been observed; natural, man-made or otherwise. You seem to know little about all this while being very quick to dismiss it. Are you Mick West?

 

[EddieVanHelgen]

I insult this guy of lying.

Which of the witnesses claimed to work for AARO?

 

[Bartski]

Which of the witnesses claimed to work for AARO?

neither, but Grusch testified he briefed Kirkpatrick in detail about his knowledge of the program

 

[noonjam]

neither, but Grusch testified he briefed Kirkpatrick in detail about his knowledge of the program

And that Kirkpatrick never got back to him to follow up on anything.

becoming clear Kirkpatrick is just another pentagon PR person in place to spin the narrative.

 

[SirKicksalot]

>arguing about the vastness of space while ignoring the nomadic aliens theory

They might cruise around the universe at near the speed of light and periodically meet to exchange goods and information. Just like Earth nomads do. The UFOs described by Livy might be Fravor's UFOs, and from their perspective only a couple of weeks have passed. Humanity's just a 6 months experiment for the galactic Harvard lol


My money's still on Vallee's theory though. Remembering the Spielberg connection through Close Encounters - by the time of Crystal Skull, Spielberg's aliens still had the classic look, but their origin was "the space between spaces", not outer space.

 

[EddieVanHelgen]

And that Kirkpatrick never got back to him to follow up on anything.

becoming clear Kirkpatrick is just another pentagon PR person in place to spin the narrative.

Interesting. If it does turn out Grusch lied under oath I hope they make an example of him, but I just can't see someone willingly throwing their life away over this if they didn't genuinely think it was true.

 

[MMaRsu]

Which of the witnesses claimed to work for AARO?

None witnesses

 

[AcrosstheSea]

Interesting. If it does turn out Grusch lied under oath I hope they make an example of him, but I just can't see someone willingly throwing their life away over this if they didn't genuinely think it was true.

Kinda hard to be lying about this if he provided documents and names to the inspector general who then deemed it was credible and urgent.

Kirkpatrick seems to be the one being dishonest.

 

[Romulus]

Again, the majority of the universe and space is just that: space.

The distance between planets is so far that by the time any civilization got here we would be dead. Or they would be dead and AI would be flying the ship- So I’d only believe it’s another civilization’s AI

There’s probably a new civilization starting 1,000,000,000 light years from here right now. And there was probably another civilization dying as we were coming to be. Think of it like trying to see two fireflies light up in the same spot in your yard at the same time. It never happens. You always see a fire fly over there - then way over there another firefly lights up - then way over there another firefly lights up...etc

So it’s TWO things that have to happen simultaneously:
1: two intelligent civilizations come up around the same time
2: one can travel and survive the thousand year journey to the other

I dislike this way of thinking. It takes a snapshot or what is currently possible and completely ignores future technologies in 100, 1000, or a million years from now.

The obstacles you speak of are no different from man saying flight was impossible 130 years ago. Literally the best scientists on the planet were saying that. And I could go on about all the times they were incredibly wrong.

Space is the obstacle. As humans we still have no idea what dark matter is, something that makes up the majority of the universe lol. In terms of tech in space, we just proved that gravity has waves lmao, so we're toddlers speaking as adults.

We know next to zero making huge claims about what is possible.

Imagine you and I are hunting in the 1760s. You fire a musket and kill a deer. I look at and you tell you that in 200 years, a man will be able to travel faster than the bullet you just fired. You would tell me to fuck off. Most every scientist on the planet would too.

But in fact, man has traveled much faster than that bullet.

I'm telling you that in x amount of years, those obstacles will be erased. 200 years is absolutely nothing, think in terms of thousands and millions of years.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

I dislike this way of thinking. It takes a snapshot or what is currently possible and completely ignores future technologies in 100, 1000, or a million years from now.

The obstacles you speak of are no different from man saying flight was impossible 130 years ago. Literally the best scientists on the planet were saying that. And I could go on about all the times they were incredibly wrong.

Space is the obstacle. As humans we still have no idea what dark matter is, something that makes up the majority of the universe lol. In terms of tech in space, we just proved that gravity has waves lmao, so we're toddlers speaking as adults.

We know next to zero making huge claims about what is possible.

Imagine you and I are hunting in the 1760s. You fire a musket and kill a deer. I look at and you tell you that in 200 years, a man will be able to travel faster than the bullet you just fired. You would tell me to fuck off. Most every scientist on the planet would too.

But in fact, man has traveled much faster than that bullet.

I'm telling you that in x amount of years, those obstacles will be erased. 200 years is absolutely nothing, think in terms of thousands and millions of years.

I'm glad someone else said it. This is so obviously true. People thinking within our current framework are missing the point. If an alien species exists there's no telling how long they may have existed and how much more to the universe they have figured out. They could be hackers of the universe, able to manipulate things at their will for all we know.

 

[Romulus]

I'm glad someone else said it. This is so obviously true. People thinking within our current framework are missing the point. If an alien species exists there's no telling how long they may have existed and how much more to the universe they have figured out. They could be hackers of the universe, able to manipulate things at their will for all we know.

I think its called apex thinking, estimating your lifetime is the pinnacle of tech etc and pinning all scientific obstacles as indefinite.

I mean technology now would appear godlike to people 200-300 years ago. And 300 years is absolutely nothing in the scale of time.

A civilization a 5000 years ahead us is absolutely feasible. It would be impossible to imagine their capabilities and would melt minds in the spot and appear as "magic."

And a civilization a million years ahead is not out of question by any stretch. A million years is nothing in terms of the age of the planets or the galaxy. It's a small blip.

 

[EddieVanHelgen]

I think its called apex thinking, estimating your lifetime is the pinnacle of tech etc and pinning all scientific obstacles as indefinite.

I mean technology now would appear godlike to people 200-300 years ago. And 300 years is absolutely nothing in the scale of time.

A civilization a 5000 years ahead us is absolutely feasible. It would be impossible to imagine their capabilities and would melt minds in the spot and appear as "magic."

And a civilization a million years ahead is not out of question by any stretch.

All these civilisations had better hope Einstein approved of their technology.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

All these civilisations had better hope Einstein approved of their technology.

That's the one thing I really dislike about some skeptics. They remind me of scientists that used to think the earth was the center of the universe and everything revolved around it.

They believe in established science because anything outside of that to them makes them look crazy. The problem is you need some crazy in science to discover and find out new things. You can't be so closed off that you dismiss the possibilities of the unknown.

 

[Bartski]

 

[Nester99]

It’s seems crazy to me that ppl in this thread have the arrogance to firmly declare what is impossible. Humans went from horses and wagons to human piloted space craft in a mere 80 years. Imagine what will be possible in another 80 years or even 1000 years if we survive?

Also, assuming that since we have not displayed a reverse engineering marvel such as anti grave it does not mean we are not trying. Imagine someone in 1650 trying to reverse engineer an iPhone. No matter how brilliant you are it’s going to be tough to even figure out what it’s purpose is with no internet and no charger ;P

I don’t know what’s real or not, but I think it makes sense to keep an open mind.

I am curious to see what will be released to the public in the next steps after the hearing..