Lactose_Intolerant
Member
A good chunk of people just use Intel for their graphics.
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AMD/NVIDIA market-share graph. Spoiler Alert: it ain't pretty.
- Thread starter Pickles Spill
- Start date
A good chunk of people just use Intel for their graphics.
Prophet Steve
Member
That personal belief doesn't make it suddenly valid to consider the 290X a competing product to the GTX 980 and not the GTX 970 when the GTX 970 is still a great performing product. Price performance ratio often goes down in the higher-end markets and a 290X is looking as a much more viable product then yes. However, in practice, the choice isn't really between a 290X or a 980, but between a 970/290X and then the 980 at the higher price point or maybe a heavily overclocked 290X version. There is very little the 980 was competing with when it launched and as such Nvidia could easily take higher profit margins with it.
And it still means you were being misleading with percentages.
So you buy stuff depending on what people tell you, because you don't inform yourself?
Since this forum is about gaming, no one is going to mention about CUDA.
I have an acquaintance who now works at Google. Prior to joining (during his education years since he is a not a gamer), he praised CUDA and how much better it was than AMD's offering.
From an academic point of view, that factor made Nvidia popular.
I have an acquaintance who now works at Google. Prior to joining (during his education years since he is a not a gamer), he praised CUDA and how much better it was than AMD's offering.
From an academic point of view, that factor made Nvidia popular.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
No it's more like the opposite. AMD are putting out HBM GPUs this year. I think that is pushing tech forward.
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
Objectively Bad Opinion
Member
If AMD lost market share while the R9 290 was the best value, then there is no hope for them.
I can understand after the 970 launched, because that was a really good value proposition. But before that, while the R9 290 sat unchallenged in the 350-400 dollar space? For almost a year? With the only competition within the same price bracket being the fucking 770? If nothing else it's pretty clear that there's nothing AMD can do at this point, the market just doesn't want what they've got.
Rather than release a new product line, they should wrap up loose ends and prepare to salvage what they can before going under.
I can understand after the 970 launched, because that was a really good value proposition. But before that, while the R9 290 sat unchallenged in the 350-400 dollar space? For almost a year? With the only competition within the same price bracket being the fucking 770? If nothing else it's pretty clear that there's nothing AMD can do at this point, the market just doesn't want what they've got.
Rather than release a new product line, they should wrap up loose ends and prepare to salvage what they can before going under.
The real question is how does this trickle down to mass market situations.
Most people are not buying Titans, X90's, X70's but x60's and everything below that.
So while you have the continual obscene hi end back and forth that doesnt account for this graph.
I wonder if those mid-low end cards are just more prominent in prebuilt systems.
Most people are not buying Titans, X90's, X70's but x60's and everything below that.
So while you have the continual obscene hi end back and forth that doesnt account for this graph.
I wonder if those mid-low end cards are just more prominent in prebuilt systems.
Boss Mog
Member
I remember when the 290 and 290X came out they were insane steals at their launch price and a lot of people, myself included, were really excited about getting one, but AMD didn't make that many at launch and they were being bought up by miners and then the prices got inflated by $200 and they were no longer worth it. When prices finally got back to normal nVidia had come out with better cards at that price point.
AMD lost big there I think. Hopefully they don't fuck up the 390 / 390X launch this time.
AMD lost big there I think. Hopefully they don't fuck up the 390 / 390X launch this time.
Kelli Lemondrop
Banned
laws regarding monopolies might actually prevent AMD from going under, up to and including government bailouts specifically to keep them afloat. in any event, AMD going under would be very, very bad news for everyone, including nvidia fans.
funny you should mention the lower midrange segment, where the $240 4gb GTX 960 gets absolutely obliterated by the $250 R9 290. and the $200 2gb 960 loses to it's equivalently priced AMD counterparts as well.
Well, AMD are definitely not anywhere near as bad as Nvidia users keep claiming. It gets even funnier when you consider that most Nvidia users haven't bought an AMD card for years and are happy to tolerate Nvidia's shaddy practices.
IMHO, AMD offer some great products and at very competitive prices. If AMD do go bust, it will be a great shame, and Nvidia supporters will certainly realise the error of their ways when it becomes a single horse race.
IMHO, AMD offer some great products and at very competitive prices. If AMD do go bust, it will be a great shame, and Nvidia supporters will certainly realise the error of their ways when it becomes a single horse race.
Dr Mayonnaise
Member
Saw this graph on the WAN show on Friday and I was shocked that Nvidia had such a high market share (I knew it had majority share but damn 70%). Been on Nvidia gpus since 2013, almost went back to AMD when the 970 debacle happened than I realized that I have never had a stuttering issue on my 970 in any game playing on a 1080/120hz display. I don't see my self going back to AMD for GPU or CPU in the near future but we will see what the 390 series and Zen bring to the table.
veggiesaurus
Member
Boss★Moogle;160738633 said:
At least miners (myself included) won't be a problem this time.
Because physX is proprietary and doesn't work on consoles. They're only going to support it if there are incentives to do so.
"Over double" is still a marginal difference, doesn't make up for how the Sapphire card has objectively superior heat metrics.
Kelli Lemondrop
Banned
indeed, and that sapphire is an 8GB model, that extra vram must surely use some watts? it's only drawing 20 watts more than an overclocked 980 does, even with more ram chips to power. in the real world, the 290 series aren't the heat monsters people claim them to be. Nvidia cards are barely faster than the 290 series (970 vs 290, 980 vs 290x) despite being what? a year+ newer, and despite nvidia having a higher R&D budget than amds entire market cap. Nvidia has gotten lazy, their marketshare is a very bad thing even for their own fanboys.
In this case I think it is somewhat fallacious. The Sapphire produces more heat, it is just that the cooler is a lot more effective at extracting that heat from the gpu. That heat is dumped into the rest of the case. Sometime that won't matter but it is something that has to be considered.
Regardless of the TDP metrics each company uses, the current high end AMD cards do produce more heat even if the difference isn't as great based on manufacturer specs.
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
"Lower is better".
397W > 310W.
Remove the rest of the components and isolate the power comsumption of the cards and the difference is obscene.
This doesn't exist in use. "Take away the cooling system and it's so much worse."
What?
Kelli Lemondrop
Banned
its a 20 watt difference, that isn't THAT much more heat. Also, i have an 8GB 290X in my RVZ01B 4690K @4.5ghz ITX build, and it isn't an issue whatsoever. loaded temps in the mid to upper 70s on the gpu, same for cpu.
for those that don't know the case,
its this adorable little thing here.
EDIT: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/3DWyTW the build. based microcenter btw (grab that hard drive while it's on sale if anyone wants it, 5TB 7200rpm for $140 is ridiculous)
Castef
Banned
So, 4 graphics cards out of 5 would be Nvidia, right?
I was just wondering if that is TRUE 4 out of 5 or maybe it is just 3.5.
NoPiece
Member
I agree AMD going under would be bad. But laws can't stop them from bankruptcy, and I promise the government would never, ever, ever, intervene. Obama isn't sweating the compelling national interest in gaming GPU competition.
AMD does the hardware alright, but it's just the software where Nvidia takes the cake. More and more developers are going to Nvidia and they get day 1 drivers with better support and even hardware specific extra eye candy whether it is GTA or witcher or batman or Ubisoft games etc
Not to say Nvidia cards require significantly less power. And then shadowplay as well.
Nvidia just has the better ecosystem right now.
Not to say Nvidia cards require significantly less power. And then shadowplay as well.
Nvidia just has the better ecosystem right now.
While I agree that this isn't in the same league as the auto industry, there's more at stake with AMD going under than just gaming video cards.
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
What?
That means that you can use a 500W power supply with the GTX, but need a better one for the 290X.
That means you need a better cooling with that model of AMD than with that model of Nvidia.
That means more heat and noise on the whole system. As better as the Vapor X cooling system is, that heat will be spread into the case.
Thats mean a bigger power bill.
All those things cost money and silence.
When you try to measure cost by performance only, you miss a lot of things. I'm a guy who spent 19 bucks on every fan of my case instead of just 6, because I'm a bigger fan of silent PC's over top performance ones. That's why I avoided things like high end Fermi and now AMD's.
You don't just measure value for the money with FPS. At least I don't.
Kelli Lemondrop
Banned
an i5/290X system only draws ~470 watts peak, you can absolutely run a 290X build with an intel cpu on a decent 500w psu, again with the fud dude?
no tears for AMD. They were ok on price point, then let their cards and drivers get shitty, then murked the market with their shady sales practices. "hey brehs, buy these underpowered chipsets on updated architectures, new new new!"
fuck that. you made your bed of shit, now sleep in it.
fuck that. you made your bed of shit, now sleep in it.
exmachina64
Banned
Not really talking about those people. It's hard to run many games on integrated graphics.
Good news! AMD won't exist as an independent entity by the time the next consoles are released. Might not exist at all.
You need to give more margin of error with PSU's like that unless they're absolutely top quality.
And please stop writing 'stop with the fud/nonsense' in every single damn post FFS.
Kelli Lemondrop
Banned
it isn't fud and it isn't nonsense. i have a 290 in a system with a 500w psu and a 3570k, no issue whatsoever. it's a.... seasonic... something or other i forget, but its just a cheap 80+ bronze psu.
Or how about you stop telling me what i can and can't post? are you a mod? no? then shut the fuck up about it. when a mod tells me i cant say specific words, then i wont, otherwise i'll use any language i damn well please. i swear to god you nvidia fanboys are ridiculous.
I was just making fun of your constant 'stop with the fud and nonsense' nonsense.
I cant in good faith recommend somebody have so little margin of error with a PSU, especially with an overclocked k CPU. It's just gambling.
Sad to see, but they fucked up bad with the launch of the 200 series. I was more than happy to buy a pair of R9 290Xs once they released some with aftermarket coolers (i had GTX 480s in SLi and didn't want another pair of loud blower cards), but by the time they came around, prices were being horribly gouged, so I decided if I was going to be forced to pay a premium I was going to stick with Nvidia. Not planning on another upgrade until at least 2017 and by then, the market for discrete graphics cards might be all but dead anyway. I hope they can turn things around with the 300 series, but I'm not currently in the market for new graphics cards for the near future.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
That graph kinda says the opposite, their best times as a whole is when they were releasing guff GPU's, either in the form of the fx series, cards that died by the hundreds of thousands because of shit manufacturing, re-badged product and hot 'n loud GPU's (ironically something ATi get's hammered for)
What it says to me is that nvidia's marketing has been absolutely on the ball when ATi has a competitive product.
Kelli Lemondrop
Banned
perhaps so, but the majority of users don't overclock. i would reccomend a 600 watt psu for users that wan't to overclock their cpus, 500w is fine for stock gpu/cpu clocks though, as long as its an 80+ certified psu.
See my above build in the RVZ01B (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/3DWyTW), 600w. temps are just fine btw, even in this ridiculously small, and amazing case.
I don't proprietary libraries are good news at all. Regardless, I suspect they would rather use something like compute based middleware, especially since vulkan and dx12 will require developers to control the gpu more directly. I don't know how a proprietary library (CUDA based?) fits into that scheme of things.
Yes but most games don't run on Intel at all, losing PhysX doesn't really make a difference then.
Yeah. As somebody said before, even when AMD/ATI put out the better product they were still on the bottom.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
I'm just pointing out why games don't have it. Most games do run on them.
When more than half your user base can't use a feature, you probably aren't going to use it unless you are getting paid to use it.
jfoul
Member
AMD really needs to nail it's upcoming launches. The Radeon 3XX series, and eventual Zen CPU are huge for the company. As consumers, we also need these launches to be successful.
Since 1998, I've used AMD(ATI) and Nvidia GPUs. I've never really had many problems driver wise with either. I currently have a pretty big sample size, with 374 games in my Steam library across three desktops (R7950, HD4600, GTX970). I've also built two desktops for my brother over the past year that have a decent amount of games being ran. One uses a Radeon 7970, and the other uses a GTX 780.
Since 1998, I've used AMD(ATI) and Nvidia GPUs. I've never really had many problems driver wise with either. I currently have a pretty big sample size, with 374 games in my Steam library across three desktops (R7950, HD4600, GTX970). I've also built two desktops for my brother over the past year that have a decent amount of games being ran. One uses a Radeon 7970, and the other uses a GTX 780.
Yea, 600w would be about right. I'm in an awkward middle ground with 550w bronze CPU, with an overclocked i5 and I'm hesitant to get any card that can hit the peaks of the 290X/OG Titan or whatever.
But I wouldn't recommend somebody do a 290X with a 500W PSU. Just a bit too close for comfort.
I'm pretty sure a good percentage of K CPU owners overclock, by the way. I don't know if it's a majority or not, but it's enough to make me not recommend pushing it on the PSU. And it would also limit your options if you ultimately wanted to overclock it later.
Kelli Lemondrop
Banned
you should be fine with a 550w bronze, full system load draw is in the mid to upper 400s on most of these setups you see tested. i would'nt even use a psu that isnt brozne or better, let alone run a gaming rig on one though. i tend to stick with gold psu's when i can budget it. what are you thoughts on my ITX build btw? And sorry for blowing up at you, i'm having a bad morning.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
Is their Zen CPU supposed to compete this time or is it going to get destroyed by Intel again? I'm curious because from what I understood there's literally no point to getting an AMD CPU right now.
Kelli Lemondrop
Banned
unknown, but unlikely. AMD doesn't have access to a fabrication node that would be required to beat intel on the cpu side. they might get close at the midrange, but they won't ever outright win again like in the early athlon 64 days.
If intel ever decided to seriously get into discreet gpus, their fabrication technology and facilities would make them a very, very dangerous new entrant btw. to say nothing of their insane cash reserves.
privitsan02
Member
PS3 was out in Japan exclusively for 6 days... Sure EU and AUS got the console in March of 2007, but it was simply too expensive to ever be in contention to do better than it did.
Despite that, it is true that the Xbox 360's release was spread out by several years, but its main territory were always the UK and NA, where the console launched in 2005, one month apart.
PS4 is thrashing the PS3's numbers, its not even a question. Xbox 360's WW release taking a while isn't the Xbox One's fault as Microsoft did better with their XB1 WW launch.
Best wishes.
Beerman462
Member
This is just plain false. I have a 7870XT and have had zero driver issues. Which I realize is just as anecdotal as your horror story bit. If you pop into the PC performance threads here on GAF you will see issues on both sides. In fact with the GTA5 release both NVidia and AMD released drivers to support it. I was running GTAV with the same drivers I've had for over a month and while the updated drivers are better, the game was perfectly playable without them.
My only fault with AMD atm is the lack of down sampling on older cards.