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[Nintendojitsu]

With a lead like this, Nvidia has no reason to ever drop their prices even if AMD were to release a competitively priced card (which they do). Nvidia is the graphic card market because the market made it so and AMD doesn't have a snowfalkes chance in Hell.

 

[Sir Abacus]

unknown, but unlikely. AMD doesn't have access to a fabrication node that would be required to beat intel on the cpu side. they might get close at the midrange, but they won't ever outright win again like in the early athlon 64 days.

They divested themselves from fabrication in 2009. They expected other people would be able to do it cheaper without having to put actual money into a process node and just let it cut into their margins. Intel on the other hand hired some of the brightest people in the industry to stay at the cutting edge of process nodes and it's paying dividends. Nobody buys AMD CPUs for serious builds except for AMD fanboys. Back when I used to work in assembly and service I'd go weeks without seeing an AMD CPU in a build.

Then in 2012 they divested themselves from the outright power race turning towards mobile. They effectively admitted defeat in the enthusiast CPU market. Then last year they basically withdrew entirely from the CPU market turning towards APUs and the value market. But the thing is, people shopping for value don't have any fucking money. Otherwise they'd be buying higher end parts. But even then their value parts struggle.

The APUs have really poor performance compared to discrete parts, Intel has caught up significantly with integrated GPU performance with Iris Pro coming level with A10 in most cases and using far less power when they do it. Look at a 4570R vs a 7850K. They're basically level but the 4570R uses two thirds the power.

 

[Genio88]

Market is weird, AMD cards offer better performance per dollar than Nvidia, for example my almost two years old R9 290 OC has same performance of a newer GTX 970 and 4GB of ram versus 3.5GB at the same price, while the R9 290X is not as fast as a GTX 980, but not for that much considering the price difference, also driver wise i haven't had any problem at all with AMD.
I'm not saying AMD is better than Nvidia, just that they'd deserve a better market share, also because if AMD abandons this market that would mean a Nvidia monopolio, alias hell

 

[Devildoll]

Shappire is OC'd just 30MHz. A measly 3%.

Asus 970 Stryx OC is overclocked 75Mhz, that's over double.

the Strix draws pretty much the same as a stock 970 when it comes to power.

I'd wager that the same goes for the vapor x 290x.

it seems like a 290x on its own draws about a hundred watts more than a 980 on average.

The real question is how does this trickle down to mass market situations.

Most people are not buying Titans, X90's, X70's but x60's and everything below that.

So while you have the continual obscene hi end back and forth that doesnt account for this graph.

I wonder if those mid-low end cards are just more prominent in prebuilt systems.

The graph in the OP encompasses all discrete graphics cards, aka everything that is a physical graphics card, and not just a chip on a motherboard.

The information text with the model names just give you an idea about what exactly launched at a select point in time.

 

[Crisium]

Hey, remember when the Radeon 6000 series used less power and cost less money than the GTX 500 and you more people still bought Nvidia? AMD still has the cost advantage, but now it's easier for Nvidia zealots to convert their friends with the power consumption argument. The argument that they ignore for years, naturally, but now it is important. Consistently, Nvidia zealots pay more money for the same or worse performance, but they say key words like "drivers" "software" and finally in the past year "power consumption" to satisfy their emotional need for their interpretation of a premium brand.

But the smart people went with a Radeon 6950 and unlocked it to a 6970 for 85% the performance of a GTX 580 for hundreds less. Smart people went with the 7950/7970 knowing it would have more longevity and sure enough, the 7950/280 and 7970/280X lords itself over the slower 670 and 680/670 that actually cost more and has less VRAM. Smart people saw the 780 and 780 Ti price tags and walked away, and now we see on average the 290 and 290X beating these cards despite costing less and again having more VRAM.

And I'm not sure how to label people right now who pay more for the 970 over the 290/290X when it already is slower at times and will age worse. And how do I label people who buy a GTX 980? Their price-to-performance decision was laughable to buy that card compared to the slight advantage it gets over a 290/290X. They say it is worth more money for more frames, they want premium performance. But of course, 290X Crossfire or 295X2 for a little more isn't worth it. With Nvidia users, they will pay more for more performance regardless of value unless the AMD setup is the one that costs more, then naturally the Nvidia card is the standard to buy.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

On a side note I just installed AMD's Catalyst 15.4 Beta Driver today. Should further improve things from the brilliant Omega drivers that came out at the start of the year.

 

[ersocaster]

You want them to bloat up the driver codebase by adding an exception for each new AAA title?

Why not just have a long stable version where game developers can target for their development?

When properly designed, adding new features does not correlate to bloat.

 

[LCGeek]

All this graph shows me is that amd lack of giving a shit about drivers for so long or cooling has come back to bite them in the but.

When that large of the market is ignoring you for easy reasons that should've been fixed at some point in the last decade I can see why this company won't be around soon. You would figure in light of 3dfx amd would make something of themselves but they are content with mediocirty.

With a lead like this, Nvidia has no reason to ever drop their prices even if AMD were to release a competitively priced card (which they do). Nvidia is the graphic card market because the market made it so and AMD doesn't have a snowfalkes chance in Hell.

Nvidia wanted this market. 3dfx and this company didn't The only thing the graph doesn't highlight is when AMD/ATI with radeon 8000-9000 range in the DX8 era had a sizeable audience they gave up. Competition is real especially with consumers who want performance or features (something amd is super shitty on).

 

[tuxfool]

When properly designed, adding new features does not correlate to bloat.

No. Both drivers are utterly bloated with case specific workarounds for more performance. What has happened over the years is that optimizations and correct api usage has been fixed at the driver level.

There was a post from a former Nvidia Intern confirming what has been known for years, that mistakes made by game developers have been fixed with workarounds inside the drivers instead of in the games.

With Dx12 and Vulkan hopefully this sort of thing will be much less prevalent.

 

[Damian.]

If true sounds like AMD/Nvidia need to publicly call out shitty developers and list each and every thing they have had to fix by bloating their own drivers. Developer incompetence is becoming more the norm each and every year.

 

[Devildoll]

If true sounds like AMD/Nvidia need to publicly call out shitty developers and list each and every thing they have had to fix by bloating their own drivers. Developer incompetence is becoming more the norm each and every year.

What might happen as a result of such an outing is that the next time, that graphics card vendor doesnt get an early version of the game.
Their graphics cards run the game horribly, and people get pissed at them, instead of the developer.

 

[Azulsky]

The graph in the OP encompasses all discrete graphics cards, aka everything that is a physical graphics card, and not just a chip on a motherboard.

The information text with the model names just give you an idea about what exactly launched at a select point in time.

Right I follow how the graph works it just doesnt give a good representation of which cards are accounting for the actual volume that gives NVDA its marketshare

 

[Enosh]

If true sounds like AMD/Nvidia need to publicly call out shitty developers and list each and every thing they have had to fix by bloating their own drivers. Developer incompetence is becoming more the norm each and every year.

I remember that thread, didn't people say that the issue is more complicated and some shit is stuff the devs can't even fix even if they wanted to?

here's the thread about it, goes into some more detail that "lolz devs be lazy"

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1007677

also man, call me casual mccasual but I fucking love the whole geforce experience thingy since I got my 960, not having to dick around with settings is awesome (before I had a 4850, which was great, upgraded it some 2 or 3 years latter with a 6870, which was also nice until it fried itself, kinda wanted to check out team green this time around (the amd card dying had some influence on that I'll admit)

going to probably upgrade again in 2 to 3 years and I'll think I'll stick with team green unless the 960 does something stupid or AMD releases something mindblowingly better

 

[tuxfool]

I remember that thread, didn't people say that the issue is more complicated and some shit is stuff the devs can't even fix even if they wanted to?

here's the thread about it, goes into some more detail that "lolz devs be lazy"

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1007677

For sure. Some of it is the fault of the developer, some of the api (OGL,Dx) and some of it is the graphics vendor. However it is known that Nvidia and AMD spend a lot of resources in tracking down and fixing these issues.

 

[gigantor21]

I can almost feel the limits of my 780Ti due to the 3GB framebuffer. It's fine for now and I don't really have any buyer's regret but I really wish they would have made it a 4GB card. I will probably be getting a card from the next Nvidia series 1000 or whatever they go with. I'm willing to bet the top card (1080?) will have a 5 or 6GB framebuffer.

There's really no excuse not to have at least that much at this point. The 980Ti is rumored to have 6GB this year.

 

[tuxfool]

There's really no excuse not to have at least that much at this point. The 980Ti is rumored to have 6GB this year.

It isn't a rumour. It is just a supposition that based on Titan X having excessive amounts of RAM.

6GB is about right, 3GB is too little and again 12GB could be too much.

 

[Devildoll]

Right I follow how the graph works it just doesnt give a good representation of which cards are accounting for the actual volume that gives NVDA its marketshare

Ah, alright.
I believe $150 is considered the sweet spot for graphics cards.

I'd guess that the most accurate representation of active cards, would be steam's data.

 

[Blinck]

Not surprised.

I stopped buying AMD after having a shit ton of troubles with all my AMD cars. Sure, NVIDIA is not problem free, but it's IMO much much better.

I also think that their market image is 10x better than AMD. Starting from the names to just overall design.

 

[ersocaster]

No. Both drivers are utterly bloated with case specific workarounds for more performance. What has happened over the years is that optimizations and correct api usage has been fixed at the driver level.

There was a post from a former Nvidia Intern confirming what has been known for years, that mistakes made by game developers have been fixed with workarounds inside the drivers instead of in the games.

With Dx12 and Vulkan hopefully this sort of thing will be much less prevalent.

An edge case != bloat unless it is improperly handled. Bloat causes performance and maintenance issues, it's not just an edge case.

 

[tuxfool]

An edge case != bloat unless it is improperly handled. Bloat causes performance and maintenance issues, it's not just an edge case.

The bigger your codebase the greater the maintenance burden. The fact that there are a lot of game specific optimizations makes for a lot of edge cases.

 

[LaserHawk]

After from switching from AMD to Nvidia I never looked back, sad to say but true.

Same here. I gave AMD a chance on my last computer build and it surprised me how much worse the general experience was for me. Driver issues took forever to fix, there were constant visual problems in Windows just because I was using two different-sized monitors, and the general interface was less convenient than what I had grown accustomed to with Nvidia. My new computer has an Nvidia card in it and I don't regret it at all.

AMD doesn't just need to beat Nvidia in the specs race, they need to improve the customer experience, too.

 

[Tain]

My last AMD card was a bad experience but it was way back, a 4850, lol.

Heated competition would be nice.

 

[Elfforkusu]

No sympathy for AMD and their cripplingly awful Linux drivers.

Burn it down.

 

[GSG Flash]

At this rate, the only option we'll have for CPUs will be Intel and the only option we'll have for GPUs will be Nvidia.

I would probably be done with PC gaming if that were the case, I have no interest in paying $1000+ for a low-mid range PC, don't even wanna think about how much a high end system would cost without any competition.

 

[flaxknuckles]

No sympathy for AMD and their cripplingly awful Linux drivers.

Burn it down.

ditto. Gonna stay with Team Green. I feel bad for people who are going to buy SteamOS machines with AMD cards in them.

 

[Sinoox]

If AMD could make something that doesn't light my friggen PC on fire then I'll buy it, but I didn't choose them for my last build because their stuff ran waaaay too hot. I wish the best for them though, competition is crucial within this industry.

 

[Tygamr]

I've had issues with AMD cards in the past, so I'm sticking with Nvidia. It just works, and their cards seem more reliable. AMD does offer a good value usually, but you still kind of get what you pay for

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I've had issues with AMD cards in the past, so I'm sticking with Nvidia. It just works, and their cards seem more reliable. AMD does offer a good value usually, but you still kind of get what you pay for

I've had more issues with my nvidia GPU's than AMD, ironically. I am happy with my G1 970's though.

 

[WetTreeLeaf]

I've had issues with AMD cards in the past, so I'm sticking with Nvidia. It just works, and their cards seem more reliable. AMD does offer a good value usually, but you still kind of get what you pay for

I've used AMD for years without issues so I'm probably going to keep using them; although I might jump ship in the next year or so just for GSYNC.

 

[Etnos]

No sympathy for AMD and their cripplingly awful Linux drivers.

Burn it down.

Windows drivers ain't that great either

I'm all down for supporting AMD in the name of competition, if they ever step up their game... re branding GPUs and CPUs year after year can only take you so long.

 

[hesido]

I wouldn't imagine it would be better, I was surprised about the time AMD actually surpassed Nvidia. Never knew that was ever the case (ironically I had an AMD card around that time.)

 

[Lonely1]

Why does Nvidia even acknowledges AMD anymore? :S

 

[KePoW]

I couldn't care less about AMD so this marketshare graph is pretty cool

I'm not a total hater because I had a couple ATI cards in the past (forget the models but over 10 years ago). They were fine hardware-wise, but I did not like their drivers and UI

NVIDIA products have been very solid for me, and price is not a huge factor

 

[Menome]

I've given ATI/AMD three separate chances with cards over the years, due to the cost/performance ratio. Each time has resulted in a return-to-manufacturer because of problems with the card. Nvidia cards have always just worked for me and I'll pay the extra premium for avoiding the hassle of games glitching out and going without a graphics card for a fortnight waiting for a replacement.

 

[LCGeek]

I couldn't care less about AMD so this marketshare graph is pretty cool

I'm not a total hater because I had a couple ATI cards in the past (forget the models but over 10 years ago). They were fine hardware-wise, but I did not like their drivers and UI

NVIDIA products have been very solid for me, and price is not a huge factor

This goes against a prevailing mindset here, but when your amd card causes your monitor to spaz and fry itself out give me a call. Same for amd card blowing up which nvidia has had quite a few times in comparison.

Been buying both companies cards since DX8 era neither are great if you look at the long of things. One company just conceals and deals with public relations better.

AMD/ATI has sunk itself with it's arrogance I'm sure in time something will make consumers grow up about nvidia but until they get put in to 3dfx shoes I doubt that situation will come about.

 

[Kieli]

Got all excited that I could get Radeon 290x for $335 + 20 mail-in-rebate (so essentially $315).

Then I realized I was on newegg.com and went to check newegg.ca.

Cheapest 290x is $450.

Hrnnnrnnghhghgg.

Kinda bad because Americans and Canadians essentially make same salary. So that $120 stings so much more.

 

[Pickles Spill]

If anyone is interested in how the ATI/AMD acquisition messed things up all around, Ars did a really great two part series on it:
http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/04/the-rise-and-fall-of-amd-how-an-underdog-stuck-it-to-intel/

http://arstechnica.com/business/201...top-of-the-mountain-to-the-deepest-valleys/1/

 

[Zemm]

AMD fanbase have been always the funniest of them all.

Just as bad on both sides in here, if anything this thread is a very good example that graphic card fanboys (ROFL) are just as bad and annoying as the console war fanboys.

 

[Culex]

I feel like ATI/AMD's relevance ceased when they ended their All-in-Wonder line.

I miss my AIW9800...was he last AMD card I have owned.

 

[Sinistral]

I think AMD's endgame is at the 2nd half of 2016 when we see all their plans come full circle.

They're laying out a lot of ground work for 2016. Current APU's are severely bandwidth limited, which will be remedied with HBM. The HSA foundation should have covered some ground. Along with that Zen will finally be unveiled. The long toothed 28nm process node will be a long forgotten. Vulkan/DX12 should be highly utilized, minimizing Driver overhead and increasing multi-core processes. There will be a lot more FreeSync monitors out that have better qualities and refresh ranges.

Lots of IFs but that all we can do is wait and see and keep pushing AMD to improve their software and marketing. Not that I've ever had problems with them. But if I too jump on the bandwagon... I had tons of issues with my GTX480s that ran incredibly hot, loud, SLI rarely worked and drivers kept crashing. So nVidia software must be garbage, nothing can change in 5 years right?

The 300 series of cards will be a stop gap but also a proving ground for HBM, another technology AMD developed that will be used throughout the industry, including nVidia for pascal in 2016.

I say this as a PC gamer still sporting an i7 930@4ghz with a GTX770 that I bought when the 290x with priced sky high during the bitcoin mining phase.

 

[Kieli]

I think AMD's endgame is at the 2nd half of 2016 when we see all their plans come full circle.

They're laying out a lot of ground work for 2016. Current APU's are severely bandwidth limited, which will be remedied with HBM. The HSA foundation should have covered some ground. Along with that Zen will finally be unveiled. The long toothed 28nm process node will be a long forgotten. Vulkan/DX12 should be highly utilized, minimizing Driver overhead and increasing multi-core processes. There will be a lot more FreeSync monitors out that have better qualities and refresh ranges.

Lots of IFs but that all we can do is wait and see and keep pushing AMD to improve their software and marketing. Not that I've ever had problems with them. But if I too jump on the bandwagon... I had tons of issues with my GTX480s that ran incredibly hot, loud, SLI rarely worked and drivers kept crashing. So nVidia software must be garbage, nothing can change in 5 years right?

The 300 series of cards will be a stop gap but also a proving ground for HBM, another technology AMD developed that will be used throughout the industry, including nVidia for pascal in 2016.

GTX 460 came out in the same "gen", and that certainly took less than 5 years.

Turn-around is quite quick. Market perception is slower, I do admit.

 

[WetTreeLeaf]

Just as bad on both sides in here, if anything this thread is a very good example that graphic card fanboys (ROFL) are just as bad and annoying as the console war fanboys.

It's pretty ridiculous, I just buy whatever at the time to me is the best performance for the money; a few months ago it turned out it was a 290.

Omega drivers were pretty amazing, people who keep saying AMD drivers are shit have no idea what they're talking about.

People dont say AMD drivers are shit, they say the wait between them is shit; which I agree with. I hate the 3 to 4 months without new drivers.

 

[CouchMaster]

On a side note I just installed AMD's Catalyst 15.4 Beta Driver today. Should further improve things from the brilliant Omega drivers that came out at the start of the year.

Omega drivers were pretty amazing, people who keep saying AMD drivers are shit have no idea what they're talking about.

 

[LCGeek]

It's pretty ridiculous, I just buy whatever at the time to me is the best performance for the money; a few months ago it turned out it was a 290.

Been saying that for the last 15 years. It's gotten worse since fcat benchmarks have entered the picture yet no one in general test for dpc latency plus fcat borking any results.

 

[KePoW]

Just as bad on both sides in here, if anything this thread is a very good example that graphic card fanboys (ROFL) are just as bad and annoying as the console war fanboys.

I'm a NVIDIA fan enthusiast, but this is definitely true

I rolled my eyes earlier in the thread when someone was claiming that 970s are normally $270

(hey btw! r u the guy in the Hearthstone thread who is so anti Face Hunter??)

 

[tuxfool]

I hate the 3 to 4 months without new drivers.

They release beta drivers every month...

 

[LifeIsLife]

I've used AMD for years without issues so I'm probably going to keep using them; although I might jump ship in the next year or so just for GSYNC.

Everyone is gonna be different, i was on AMD for years and had non stop issues. Switched to a 560 then a 770 and have never had an issue since

 

[WetTreeLeaf]

They release beta drivers every month...

I was checking for beta drivers for a while, and it was more than a month's wait.

 

[tuxfool]

I was checking for beta drivers for a while, and it was more than a month's wait.

They released drivers last month. They have released drivers this month.

 

[gatti-man]

I go back and forth all the time between nvidia and amd . Right now I have a 290x OC and have had t since launch. It's been a great card, runs cool and quiet for me. However once battlefront comes out I will probably need something new to run it at max at 1440p. Once again it's whoever has the best card for the best price that wins for me. The only time I've ever outright preferred nvidia is when i was running two cards but heat chased me away from that a while ago. It's no fun gaming while I'm sweating my balls off.