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[Lonestar]

I don't think it's terribly valuable to talk scheme benefits in relation to college teams because the talent gulf is so enormously wide. Great athletes can make up for a ton. That doesn't generally exist in the NFL. Sure there are marginal differences but look at the talent differences in Alabama and ND. Come on. You can't learn shit about which system works better. It's men against boys.

Mostly mean the ongoing war between LSU's 4-3 and Alabama's 3-4. Watching the differences in between those 2 (and the offensive lines). ND's Defense was horrid, and was made even worse (no, not the GF shit), when 1 DE tears his knee, and then the NT gets a knee sprain.

 

[squicken]

I don't think it's terribly valuable to talk scheme benefits in relation to college teams because the talent gulf is so enormously wide. Great athletes can make up for a ton. That doesn't generally exist in the NFL. Sure there are marginal differences but look at the talent differences in Alabama and ND. Come on. You can't learn shit about which system works better. It's men against boys.

Little bit disagree. I really want to find that Stanford/Oregon game. Even if it is men vs boys, and even if it doesn't work, you can at least see what the guys who go against it all the time think has the best chance of succeeding

 

[LJ11]

Little bit disagree. I really want to find that Stanford/Oregon game. Even if it is men vs boys, and even if it doesn't work, you can at least see what the guys who go against it all the time think has the best chance of succeeding

Wich one?

 

[squicken]

Wich one?

This past year. 2012

edit: first part of my previous post not related to the second. I want to see the whole game and what Stanford did, but also, I think there's value in seeing all the failed attempts at Big 12 defenses in stopping Baylor, for instance

 

[bluemax]

Watt is essentially a 3 tech, like you said, everyone is basically in some sort of nickel package, most teams are out of their base D in a hurry, so I'd put Watt in a similar category as Atkins because he's lining up inside so much.

Also, the line between 3-4 and 4-3 is basically gone. You have odd front teams, Dallas and the Texans for example, playing under defenses which is the bread and butter of most 4-3 teams, they also one gap instead of two. Then you have even front/4-3 teams, mainly the Seahawks, playing odd fronts and even two gapping their 5 tech.

I do remember a few months ago someone talking about playing odd front/3-4 to shore up/help stop the run, but he never really got into the details of it. Forget who it was....



I kind of agree with this. Think what the Seahawks do is the best combo out there.

I know the guys at Fieldgulls had a bunch of write ups on Pete's 4-3 under front and the need for a "Leo" end back when he first came on. Not sure if those are still available but I'll look and see if I can find links.

 

[LJ11]

This past year. 2012

edit: first part of my previous post not related to the second. I want to see the whole game and what Stanford did, but also, I think there's value in seeing all the failed attempts at Big 12 defenses in stopping Baylor, for instance

It's on youtube, but the quality isn't what you would like. Couldn't find it on ESPN3, quick search though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv4yWeOyins

High block shed, Madden style. Watched it live, they got off blocks all day long, just beat the snot out of them up front.

Edit: Here's another one, Oregon O vs Stanford D, every play. They have Stanford O vs Oregon D as well. HD too.

 

[Lonestar]

heh, with those links, I found Alabama's offense vs Michigan and Michigan's Offense against Alabama.

More of these types of video's need to be out there

 

[squicken]

It's on youtube, but the quality isn't what you would like. Couldn't find it on ESPN3, quick search though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv4yWeOyins

High block shed, Madden style. Watched it live, they got off blocks all day long, just beat the snot out of them up front.

Edit: Here's another one, Oregon O vs Stanford D, every play. They have Stanford O vs Oregon D as well. HD too.

Wow, thanks LJ. Already downloading the mp4 versions

 

[etiolate]

I've noticed Kaep give to the RB in the read-option when the QB run appeared to be there. I kept thinking he was just making the wrong choice, but a lot of the stuff I read on why not to Pistol offense or read-option in the NFL is because of the increased hits to the QB. The new batch of QBs may be getting coached to only take the QB option on certain read-option plays to reduce potential hits.

 

[The Frankman]

I've noticed Kaep give to the RB in the read-option when the QB run appeared to be there. I kept thinking he was just making the wrong choice, but a lot of the stuff I read on why not to Pistol offense or read-option in the NFL is because of the increased hits to the QB. The new batch of QBs may be getting coached to only take the QB option on certain read-option plays to reduce potential hits.

In that ATL game I think I heard the announcers say the ATL ends crashed outside almost every time, maybe he just read it and decided to go RB. It sure looked that way in the TD runs to James and Gore.

 

[cdyhybrid]

I've noticed Kaep give to the RB in the read-option when the QB run appeared to be there. I kept thinking he was just making the wrong choice, but a lot of the stuff I read on why not to Pistol offense or read-option in the NFL is because of the increased hits to the QB. The new batch of QBs may be getting coached to only take the QB option on certain read-option plays to reduce potential hits.

The read-option is pointless if you're determining where to go with it before the snap. At that point, it's a poor man's play-action fake. The reason you pull the ball out of the RB's hands is because (based on your read of the DE) if you give it to him he's probably going to be tackled for little to no gain, or for a loss.

It could very well be a bad read. Even Chip Kelly's QBs who had been in the system for 3 years (Darron Thomas) made bad reads and kept it when they shouldn't have, or vice versa. You're making a split second decision and everything is moving very quickly, the possibility of making a mistake will always be there.

 

[etiolate]

In that ATL game I think I heard the announcers say the ATL ends crashed outside almost every time, maybe he just read it and decided to go RB. It sure looked that way in the TD runs to James and Gore.

They were, but guys like Cam, Kaep and RG3 can probably still beat the DE if the end bites in just a little bit. I do recall one, but only one, play where Kaep handed off and faked the run outside and the DE ignored him. It could be a situation where the DE is showing he's taking the QB away more than he's actively doing so. That gives the DE more a chance to quickly switch chase the RB from behind, but it sure feels like a well executed fake could burn that sort of play.

 

[mr2xxx]

It always seems to me that it's easier to find giant strong dudes for the 3-4 DE, than find those pass rushing, fast, giant strong dudes for the 4-3.

Thats the thing though these things always adjust them selves over time. For example when a new type of defense or offense crops up that requires certain players with different skill sets they tend to have success relatively early. When only a few teams are drafting 3-4 players or ZBS blockers/running backs then it is easy to hit on these players because no one is valuing their skill set as much as a small group of teams. But as time goes on the other teams see the success and hire their coordinators and copy the schemes. It eventually gets to a point where there is competition among plenty of teams for these players and less demand for the conventional 4-3 players or power blockers or what have you. Thats the great thing about the NFL, while the 4-3 might be inferior but as more teams move to 3-4 then all that does it put better players into those 4-3 schemes to overcome any deficiencies to balance things out.

Now read option QBs are the a hot commodity but the issue is that teams have had a difficult time just getting a pocket passer, now they want that with a great runner. RG3, Russell and Kaep are probably once in a decade talents than something you will not see every other draft. The problem with them is that it takes a great individual who is athletically superior to nearly every defender on the field to not use their talent and focus on being great passers.

Vick and Young are classic examples of guys who have the dedication of a normal person. These guys were lights out in HS and college, they relied primarily on their athleticism ,so what reason did they have to put in the extra work necessary to be elite? Its like a student gets an average of 90%, how many of them would say that is good enough and have fun on their time off and enjoy college life? Not many, thats why Kaep, Wilson and Rg3 are special. Their dedication is off the charts along with their physical skill sets which is very rare which is why so many teams will fail trying to draft the next one.

 

[bluemax]

I don't think these are the articles I was thinking of but here's a couple of write ups on the Seahawks 4-3 under:

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2011/5/31...roll-4-3-under-defense-part-i-an-introduction

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2011/6/2/2194859/the-4-3-under-defense-part-ii-the-seahawks-hybrid

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2011/6/6/2199261/the-4-3-under-defense-coverage-schemes

http://trojanfootballanalysis.com/?p=308

The last link actually contains a transcript from a Nike coaching clinic where Pete explained a lot of his defensive philosophies.

 

[Dutch Gronk]

Does anyone have one of those PFF premium stats accounts? I liked the site before they started to change you for the deeper stuff, not sure if it's worth the money.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

I'm subscribing with this post friend.

 

[andycapps]

Awesome thread, looking forward to reading everything posted here.

Since the LOL Handegg posts were already done, some slight clarification for our soccer brethren might be nice. American football is also called gridiron football. Their brand of "football" is nicknamed soccer by us as theirs is referred to as association football (soccer being a nickname or bastardization of that name). When soccer fans mistakenly equate their brand of "football" as being correct because they kick it with their feet, they're missing the original intent of the word, which was to imply that the game was played on foot and not on horseback. Both are played on foot and are as much football as the other.

 

[ActStriker]

Thanks for the thread, and for the link to that ultimate guide to defense.

 

[bachikarn]

The read-option is pointless if you're determining where to go with it before the snap. At that point, it's a poor man's play-action fake. The reason you pull the ball out of the RB's hands is because (based on your read of the DE) if you give it to him he's probably going to be tackled for little to no gain, or for

Isnt handing off the ball always in a zone read the same as a normal run play? Am I missing something?

 

[eznark]

The read-option is pointless if you're determining where to go with it before the snap. At that point, it's a poor man's play-action fake. The reason you pull the ball out of the RB's hands is because (based on your read of the DE) if you give it to him he's probably going to be tackled for little to no gain, or for a loss.

It could very well be a bad read. Even Chip Kelly's QBs who had been in the system for 3 years (Darron Thomas) made bad reads and kept it when they shouldn't have, or vice versa. You're making a split second decision and everything is moving very quickly, the possibility of making a mistake will always be there.

Not really. The read-option give freezes a defender, be it a linebacker or an end so even if you give it 90% of the time the defender has to respect the QB and thus is frozen for a beat. It's effective. Also as you mentioned it allows for a really nice play action. Not sure why you'd consider it a "poor mans" play action.

Your own guy has the give predetermined roughly 50% of the time according to an interview he gave on Sirius a few weeks ago. According to Wilson he essentially looks for an excuse to give and keeps to keep the defense honest. If you watch the Atlanta game, Wilson was great with this. Instead of keeping and running he always handed off, which drew the linebackers in to the line on the play, which opened up the TE and crossing routs at mid-level.

 

[Dutch Gronk]

Can somebody who watches a lot of USC educate me about T. J. McDonald, the USC safety? Will this be Taylor Mays all over again or does this guy have the skills to actually play whilst being a physical freak? I see he's projected to be a 3rd to 4th round guy.

Also, I saw Kenny Tate projected 2nd/3rd round in the draft like last year ago when he was still a safety if I'm not mistaken, what happened to him? Did the injuries really hurt him that much, or is he also just a physical freak, that isn't all that good? See him projected in the 7th round now with questions if he will be drafted at all.

 

[chuckddd]

So who has all-22 access and wants to help break down the Super Bowl participants? I'm not saying we have to get majorly in depth or anything. Just watch for tendencies/favorite plays/obvious strong and weak spots. Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

 

[squicken]

So who has all-22 access and wants to help break down the Super Bowl participants? I'm not saying we have to get majorly in depth or anything. Just watch for tendencies/favorite plays/obvious strong and weak spots. Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

I'll help. Not sure how helpful I can be, but I'll try.

 

[yankeehater]

Tony Pauline from SI posted his Senior Bowl day 1 report:

The 64th edition of the Senior Bowl got underway this morning as over 100 future NFL players individually stepped onto a stage in Mobile, Alabama to be measured and weighed in front off all 32 franchises. Later in the afternoon it was time for practice as college prospects were run through NFL formations on the field and asked to display their skills. Here's a breakdown of who did well on the first day for the South team, as well as the players who disappointed.

Winners

Leon McFadden/CB/San Diego State: McFadden was strong the entire day and by far the best cornerback on the South squad. He was technically sound, displaying both quickness and athleticism in his game. McFadden showed good footwork, moving in reverse with the ability to quickly flip his hips then run downfield with opponents. His ball skills were outstanding as McFadden picked off one pass and almost came away with a second interception. It's quite possible that McFadden was the biggest winner of practice on Monday.

Larry Warford/G/Kentucky: Warford was a blocker who was not to be beat on Monday. He was dominant all day and controlled opponents in drills as well as scrimmage. Once Warford got his hands on a defender it was game over. He's a big, strong lineman with a wide body and the type of prospect who will be sought out by a power running offense.

Johnathan Jenkins/DT/Georgia: Jenkins tipped the scales at 359 pounds this morning but looked more like a 250-pound linebacker moving around the field. He was cat-quick off the snap and quickly penetrated the open gaps of the offensive line or bull rushed blockers into the backfield. Most impressive was Jenkins' ability to immediately change direction and pursue the action outside the numbers to the sidelines. He offers rare athleticism for a big man, though scouts question Jenkins' desire to play with that athleticism every time the ball is snapped.

Garrett Gilkey/OL/Chadron State: Most times players from small schools like Chadron State show some trepidation at the Senior Bowl facing off against players who hail from national powerhouses. Not Gilkey. Lining up at both guard and tackle, Gilkey was not intimidated by anyone and attacked his assignments. On one occasion, he knocked big John Jenkins off the line with a violent punch of his hands. Gilkey stayed on his feet and stayed with the action all day.

Stepfan Taylor/RB/Stanford: Taylor was the most effective ball carrier of day one at the Senior Bowl. The compact running back displayed terrific vision, instincts and burst. Taylor showed the ability to explode through the hole and made defenders miss in the open field. He also proved himself to be effective catching the ball out of the backfield. Taylor is a complete back and will rise up draft boards if he continues the momentum of Monday's practice.

Vance McDonald/TE/Rice: McDonald had a strong practice as a blocker and pass catcher. He made several tough receptions down the middle of the field, coming away with errant passes or making the difficult catch in a crowd. As a blocker, McDonald showed a willingness to attack assignments and the strength to finish off opponents. He's an under the radar tight end who displayed a lot of skill today.

Terrance Williams/WR/Baylor: Williams was sensational throughout practice on Monday. He was fast off the line, ran good routes and showed the speed necessary to beat defenders down the field. Williams showed tremendous focus and came away with several acrobatic receptions throughout the day. The receiver class in the 2013 NFL Draft leaves a lot to be desired but Williams made his mark Monday at the Senior Bowl and ranks near the top of the senior class at the position.

Losers

Chase Thomas/LB/Stanford: Thomas has been rated by some as a second round pick. Today, he looked like a last round selection. During coverage drill Thomas was routinely beaten by slow tight ends. He showed minimal quickness and athleticism in his game. Thomas is what teams consider a "tweener"; to small for defensive end and too slow for linebacker.

Bacarri Rambo/S/Georgia: Rambo comes off a sensational senior season but looked indecisive and hesitant in Monday's practice. He was constantly late to the action and made plays after the fact.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Isnt handing off the ball always in a zone read the same as a normal run play? Am I missing something?

Not really. The read-option give freezes a defender, be it a linebacker or an end so even if you give it 90% of the time the defender has to respect the QB and thus is frozen for a beat. It's effective. Also as you mentioned it allows for a really nice play action. Not sure why you'd consider it a "poor mans" play action.

Your own guy has the give predetermined roughly 50% of the time according to an interview he gave on Sirius a few weeks ago. According to Wilson he essentially looks for an excuse to give and keeps to keep the defense honest. If you watch the Atlanta game, Wilson was great with this. Instead of keeping and running he always handed off, which drew the linebackers in to the line on the play, which opened up the TE and crossing routs at mid-level.

Well right, but at that point it's not the read option. It's just a handoff or a play fake.

 

[eznark]

Well right, but at that point it's not the read option. It's just a handoff or a play fake.

I think you are greatly underestimating the impact that specific backfield action has on the way a defense reacts. The defense doesn't know it's just a handoff.

 

[cdyhybrid]

I think you are greatly underestimating the impact that specific backfield action has on the way a defense reacts. The defense doesn't know it's just a handoff.

I think we're just arguing semantics at this point so I'll drop it

 

[Thug Waffle]

Epic OP. Subbed.

 

[ZZMitch]

Great thread! Will be checking this out in future.

 

[Lonestar]

Some Senior Bowl reports from SBNation
http://www.sbnation.com/senior-bowl - Listing of various articles on the Senior Bowl, for even more info



http://www.hogshaven.com/2013/1/22/3902440/senior-bowl-day-1-practice-reports

Defensive Backs:

Sanders Commings, Georgia:

Commings is thought to be more of a corner, but after today's practice he may be viewed more of a free safety prospect. He was not fluid in flipping his hips, and really struggled when asked to run with receivers. He did some nice things when he played off in a zone and the play was in front of him, but other than that it was not a strong day.

Robert Lester, Alabama:

Lester looked good early on in practice in both individual and 1-on-1 drills, but disappeared or struggled later. He didn't struggle particularly in any one area, but he didn't show dominance either. He was pretty inconsistent in the team drills, with one rep showing nice recognition and back peddle and then the next rep missing his assignment. Overall solid day, but not spectacular.

Bacarri Rambo, Georgia:

Rambo looked flawless in the individual position drills setting the bench mark everyone else was compared to, but he all but disappeared once he started going up against receivers/tight ends. He still made a play or two, but overall he was late recognizing a number of passes, and took bad angles to the ball. Given how he started and his overall hype it was a poor overall showing.

J.J. Wilcox, Georgia Southern:

It quickly became apparent that Wilcox has just one year at safety under his belt. While he flashes big play ability he looked simply lost out there at times. He really struggled in the positional drills, especially with his ability to flip his hips and his back peddle. While there is some legitimate promise there, he's very much a developmental prospect.

Leon McFadden, San Diego State:

McFadden had the best all-around showing today among defensive backs. He was very fluid in the drills, displaying good speed and quickness. He really excelled when faced with receivers. He showed physicality and great reaction time, and was constantly the toughest draw for a particular receiver.

Offensive Line:

Larry Warford, Kentucky:

Warford had the best all-around day by any offensive lineman, he was quick off the ball and showed a good anchor, rarely letting anyone push him back or control the point of attack. He also showed surprising quickness for his size and handled speed well.

Dallas Thomas, Tennessee:

Thomas played both guard and tackle in practice and handled his own at both positions. He didn't have the best anchor and didn't finish guys off, but he showed quick feet and re-routed a number of defenders keeping the pocket generally clean. A couple times he did get beat, but overall it was a pretty solid practice.

Lane Johnson, Oklahoma:

Really thought he had a great all-around practice, he lined up at both tackle spots and really showed quick feet and a nice sound base. He anchored well and didn't allow much penetration. He wasn't as good versus the run, but it was by no means a bad showing.

OT Oday Aboushi, OL Garrrett Gilkey and OL Xavier Nixon all looked solid or better as well.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/1/22/3902594/senior-bowl-2013-practice-nfl-draft-2013

WRs > QBs

While none of the quarterbacks really seemed to separate themselves the same can not be said for the wide receivers. Marquise Goodwin of Texas, Chis Harper of Kansas State and Markus Wheaton of Oregon State had great days for the North squad.

Harper was the first-up to lead the drills and caught everything thrown his way all day long. Goodwin made a fantastic catch across the middle of the field early in the practice on a throw from Zac Dysert. The pass was thrown a touch behind him on a quick slant and Goodwin reached behind him and snagged the pass across the middle and broke into the open field.

More: All Chiefs draft news and rumors | 2013 NFL mock draft

Wheaton made two big-time plays down the field as he caught one slant across the middle in traffic on a pass that was thrown well-above his head. While the second catch was on a 9-route (fade) deep down the field where he had a one-on-one jump-ball situation where he came down with the pass.

The majority of the first part of the practice was the basics. Considering it was the first day it wasn't altogether too surprising that the first drills for the quarterbacks and lineman were basic hand-offs and blocking assignments. These guys are coming from all different programs with all different terminologies. Despite the fact that it was the Oakland Raiders coaching staff leading the practice I'll say they did a good job in getting guys flying around and on the same page.

Can't miss him

One guy that's opened some eyes after just one day of practice is Florida Atlantic strong safety Jonathan Cyprien. He caught the attention of many early Monday morning during the weigh-in as he was the consensus favorite for 'having looked like he didn't miss many workouts'.

On the field Cyprien didn't miss many chances to tell the offensive players how he felt about how they did on that particular play. Having not been close enough to hear exactly what was being said after each play, I'll be sure to get closer during Tuesday's practices to hear this 'friendly banter'.

I talked briefly with Cyprien after practice about the best advice he's received from his coaches at FIU.

"Being a leader," he said. "Pushing players even when I'm tired and always coming with a good attitude even when I'm down. They showed me how to unleash my enthusiasm."

Cyprien credits former FIU coach and current Mississippi State defensive coordinator Geoff Collins and FIU defensive backs' coach Jeff Popovich for helping him become to player he is today.

'That's the only way I know how to play the game'

Despite my homerism towards him, USC safety TJ McDonald has impressed others. He's definitely a guy to keep an eye on later in the week.

I had a chance to talk with McDonald on Monday night and asked him about the different ways in which USC moved him around from play to play. Some plays he'd be deep 15 yards off the LOS and the next he'd be blitzing off the edge, then lined up in the box on the following play.

"I like moving around but I feel that I moved around so much that I never got comfortable at one spot....I like the two-deep look where I'm playing down-hill," McDonald said on Monday night. "Maybe 10 yards off the line of scrimmage. I feel like if I get that I'll get a full head of steam and it'll be a headache for somebody."

"Definitely, that's how I was brought up," he said when asked about being intimidating at safety. "That's something that's always been my strength in being a physical guy. That's the only way I know how to play the game."

One player that did struggle off the start was Michigan's Denard Robinson. His first few reps at wide receiver were not pretty. He seemed to struggle with the footwork and balance of coming out of breaks on basic routes. He did make some nice plays towards the end of practice but he's definitely a project that's going to have to show some quick improvement over the next few days. It was interesting that he was wearing a yellow jersey all practice, which are only for the QBs.

Bolded because someone asked about TJ McDonald earlier.

Longer Liveblog of practices

Denard Robinson, not doing too well, but everyone understands, he's a fast mofo.

 

[squicken]

Yeah I've read Denard was bad in punt return duty, but was already getting it done as WR. Terrance Williams seems Josh Gordon 2.0. Still like him. Torrey Smith could supposedly only go deep. Coaches' job to maximize a guy's talents

 

[Lonestar]

Apparently Denard reaggravatted his elbow injury, was in non-contact drills today



SBNation's dedicated draft site

 

[cashman]

I've been hearing Alex Okafor has been tearing it up

Texas defensive end Alex Okafor had a strong first day of practice for the North squad on Monday. Over the past months, many draft pundits haven't gotten on board with Okafor being a first-round pick, but a few scouts in Mobile I spoke to said they feel that Okafor is definitely a top-32 pick. Okafor's pass-rushing ability and versatility to play in a 4-3 or 3-4 defense should prompt him to go on Thursday night. Scouts say there are a variety of teams that have Okafor on their radar so going in the top 20 is possible if he plays well at the Senior Bowl and looks good at the Combine

And also Margus Hunt is getting some mixed reviews. I'm interested to see how he does in the NFL becuase he is one hell of a physical speciment

Don't be surprised if SMU defensive end Margus Hunt has a steady rise up draft boards and cracks the top 20. Some 3-4 teams would like to see Hunt add 20 pounds to be a stouter five-technique defensive end. The former track athlete is expected to be a star at the Combine. He incorporated more track training prior to his senior season and that helped him to be more explosive. Sources have said that teams have also been impressed with Hunt's intelligence and character. They also know that the NFL is a copycat league and the success of five technique ends like the Texans' J.J. Watt and 49ers' Justin Smith will help Hunt. The 6-foot-8, 277-pound Estonian could thrive in that role after some developmental time.

 

[Lonestar]

Going back to LJ's bringing up the vids of "Offenses vs Defense", the uploader JoshMTD has a sick amount of videos uploaded.

2010 Games - 124 uploads

2011 Games - 42 uploads

2012 Games - 58 uploads

2010 Bowl/Post season games, including a bunch of Senior Bowl coverage - 40 uploads

 

[mr2xxx]

Hopefully Rambo steps it up because he is on my radar.

Right now I'm checking Safety Fresno St.'s Phillip Thomas (Boise St, Tulsa and Oregon so far):

• Good at shedding blocks
• Tackling is inconsistent; 1/3 of the time he takes bad angles and has poor technique , especially in the open field and other times makes great tackles.
• Speed seems average
• Seems hesitant out there; possibly lacks instinct/unable to quickly read plays
• Coverage- Not much was shown in those three games but from what was there, there was nothing to suggest he is a ballhawk.

He was rated as the #3 FS at CBS sports and So far I haven't seen it


Eric Reid- LSU FS (Texas A&M, South Carolina, can't find any other ones from this year)

• Avg. speed but big and burly
• Tackling- solid technique, only a few bad angles and misses
• Reacts to the play much faster than Thomas
• Coverage- Seems solid so far, had a freebie INT and some break ups. Not many mistakes.

#2 Rated FS but performed much better than Thomas from what little I have seen



I'll probably Do the top 5 or 6 FS prospects and keep updating as I go on and try to be more in depth as I learn more about the position.

 

[Dutch Gronk]

Bolded because someone asked about TJ McDonald earlier

Thanks! He intrugues me to no end, the big freakish DBs always fascinate me. Could a guy like McDonald help against the Kaepernicks/Wilson in the world if the becomes disciplined? He was the speed to drop in coverage, but also to help support against the run real well. I read LJ his posts talking about safety play against the option, could that be the solution?

 

[bluemax]

Can somebody who watches a lot of USC educate me about T. J. McDonald, the USC safety? Will this be Taylor Mays all over again or does this guy have the skills to actually play whilst being a physical freak? I see he's projected to be a 3rd to 4th round guy.

Also, I saw Kenny Tate projected 2nd/3rd round in the draft like last year ago when he was still a safety if I'm not mistaken, what happened to him? Did the injuries really hurt him that much, or is he also just a physical freak, that isn't all that good? See him projected in the 7th round now with questions if he will be drafted at all.

TJ McDonald isn't as bad as Taylor Mays in coverage but I don't think he's really going to excel there at any point.

 

[mr2xxx]

Thanks! He intrugues me to no end, the big freakish DBs always fascinate me. Could a guy like McDonald help against the Kaepernicks/Wilson in the world if the becomes disciplined? He was the speed to drop in coverage, but also to help support against the run real well. I read LJ his posts talking about safety play against the option, could that be the solution?

The problem is that if you have you free safety in the box then you will expose yourself deep. If you have two safeties that could play in coverage and the run then maybe but most teams don't even have one. The interesting thing is that Seattle, Wash. and SF don't really have a stud receiver that can blow the top off a secondary, so when one of them does get that guy it'll be fun to watch.

 

[chuckddd]

I'll help. Not sure how helpful I can be, but I'll try.

Looks like it's just you and me, buddy.

So, all five playoff games. Paying particular attention to the SF defense against Atl, as they're built similarly to the Ravens. I'm also going to watch Ravens/'Skins game to see what Bal did against the read option. I'll probably watch them twice, once to pick up any tendencies, a second time to zero in on certain positions/plays.

Sound good? Any other games we should watch or not watch?

 

[squicken]

Looks like it's just you and me, buddy.

So, all five playoff games. Paying particular attention to the SF defense against Atl, as they're built similarly to the Ravens. I'm also going to watch Ravens/'Skins game to see what Bal did against the read option. I'll probably watch them twice, once to pick up any tendencies, a second time to zero in on certain positions/plays.

Sound good? Any other games we should watch or not watch?

Yeah that BAL/WAS game would be the one. SF really didn't go as much pistol until the playoffs. I'll go back through the SF/ATL game tonight. See what they did w/ Gonzo and how that can work with Pitta

 

[Futurevoid]

I'd help, chuck as I have All-22 access but I'm still busy trying to get the remaining stuff up in the OP.

 

[chuckddd]

I'd help, chuck as I have All-22 access but I'm still busy trying to get the remaining stuff up in the OP.

It's not like I'll get them all watched tomorrow or anything. I'm hoping you'll get the op done before the game actually gets here...maybe.

Oh, and I'll start whipping up some headers right now.

 

[Dutch Gronk]

I think I still have my Gamepass which includes All-22 as well, but the problem is I'm not as knowledgeable as you lot, my 2 playing years football on idiot level didn't really give me a whole lot of inside.

Still, if I ever find time, I'll watch a game or 2 and compare my 'notes' to yours.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Looks like it's just you and me, buddy.

So, all five playoff games. Paying particular attention to the SF defense against Atl, as they're built similarly to the Ravens. I'm also going to watch Ravens/'Skins game to see what Bal did against the read option. I'll probably watch them twice, once to pick up any tendencies, a second time to zero in on certain positions/plays.

Sound good? Any other games we should watch or not watch?

Redskins/Ravens if you please.

 

[LJ11]

Hopefully Rambo steps it up because he is on my radar.

Right now I'm checking Safety Fresno St.'s Phillip Thomas (Boise St, Tulsa and Oregon so far):

• Good at shedding blocks
• Tackling is inconsistent; 1/3 of the time he takes bad angles and has poor technique , especially in the open field and other times makes great tackles.
• Speed seems average
• Seems hesitant out there; possibly lacks instinct/unable to quickly read plays
• Coverage- Not much was shown in those three games but from what was there, there was nothing to suggest he is a ballhawk.

He was rated as the #3 FS at CBS sports and So far I haven't seen it


Eric Reid- LSU FS (Texas A&M, South Carolina, can't find any other ones from this year)

• Avg. speed but big and burly
• Tackling- solid technique, only a few bad angles and misses
• Reacts to the play much faster than Thomas
• Coverage- Seems solid so far, had a freebie INT and some break ups. Not many mistakes.

#2 Rated FS but performed much better than Thomas from what little I have seen



I'll probably Do the top 5 or 6 FS prospects and keep updating as I go on and try to be more in depth as I learn more about the position.

I think Reid is faster than he plays, straight line speed mostly, ask him to turn and run/cover a slot receiver and it gets messy. Really liked Elam during the season, but I've read that hes not as good as he looks. Lots of flaws that haven't been exposed yet. Vaccaro seems to be the guy, but he's more of a slot corner, not sure how he'll play the deep half, but he can certainly cover which is a rarity in that Longhorns secondary.

One thing Id like to see is all the wheel routes the Niners use out of different formations. Would be nice if you could tag plays and then bring them up, sort of like a playlist. They hit those quick throws, quick outs and they set you up for the wheel, they just run the coverage off and hit the void.

 

[Futurevoid]

One thing Id like to see is all the wheel routes the Niners use out of different formations. Would be nice if you could tag plays and then bring them up, sort of like a playlist. They hit those quick throws, quick outs and they set you up for the wheel, they just run the coverage off and hit the void.

Antrel Rolle was all over that shit in the Giants/Niners game earlier in the season. Recognized it at the line on the Prince pick and was mostly responsible for the play. Rolle had a helluva game in general that day.

It helps that both he and Phillps were both gashed by it in the NFCCG the year prior.

 

[LJ11]

Antrel Rolle was all over that shit in the Giants/Niners game earlier in the season. Recognized it at the line on the Prince pick and was mostly responsible for the play. Rolle had a helluva game in general that day.

It helps that both he and Phillps were both gashed by it in the NFCCG the year prior.

Yup, Giants ate it up.

 

[peteykirch]

Am I the only one who gets depressed seeing former players make it in the NFL only at different positions, making you wonder, damn why did the coaching staff at the school saw what the NFL Coaches saw?

I look at my Alma Mater, Rutgers.

Right now between all the Senior Bowl, East/West Shrine game, and those games like that, it seems every Scarlet Knight in those games is playing out of position and doing well.

Our starting MLB is playing lights out at OLB.

Our former all Big East DT is making waves at DE.

Then I look at the NFL and see all these guys playing new positions. Devin McCourty at S instead of CB, Justin Francis at DE instead of DT, Alex Silvestro at TE instead of DT, I can go on and on, but it just makes you wonder if they weren't needed at where they were originally in College, just how good of a player they could've been.

 

[LJ11]

Am I the only one who gets depressed seeing former players make it in the NFL only at different positions, making you wonder, damn why did the coaching staff at the school saw what the NFL Coaches saw?

I look at my Alma Mater, Rutgers.

Right now between all the Senior Bowl, East/West Shrine game, and those games like that, it seems every Scarlet Knight in those games is playing out of position and doing well.

Our starting MLB is playing lights out at OLB.

Our former all Big East DT is making waves at DE.

Then I look at the NFL and see all these guys playing new positions. Devin McCourty at S instead of CB, Justin Francis at DE instead of DT, Alex Silvestro at TE instead of DT, I can go on and on, but it just makes you wonder if they weren't needed at where they were originally in College, just how good of a player they could've been.

It even happens at the NFL level, mostly with defensive lineman.

 

[FootballFan]

Awesome thread, looking forward to reading everything posted here.

Since the LOL Handegg posts were already done, some slight clarification for our soccer brethren might be nice. American football is also called gridiron football. Their brand of "football" is nicknamed soccer by us as theirs is referred to as association football (soccer being a nickname or bastardization of that name). When soccer fans mistakenly equate their brand of "football" as being correct because they kick it with their feet, they're missing the original intent of the word, which was to imply that the game was played on foot and not on horseback. Both are played on foot and are as much football as the other.

Just to be clear those posts were different before but edited by Bish(I believe) into "LOL HANDEGG"