American Football 101 |OT| - Schemes, breakdown and professorial talk

XiaNaphryz said:
LJ, there was talk after the GB game from Greg Roman about how SF was purposely playing more plain/vanilla-type offensive sets in the last 2 games to throw-off their initial playoff opponent. Any credence to that in your study so far, or is it just talk?
Click to expand...

no, they were beat. crabtree was ass, working against lbs and couldn't do shit. kap was ass, plenty of throws to make but couldn't. niners were trying, just couldn't get open enough, when they did kap misfired, and their run game got blown up. look at the hit on VD, they picked off the defender to get him open, and he still got laid out. Seahawks were all over their routes, and runs.

didn't run much option though.

edit: im going to try and watch ravens/niners from last season, strictly for DL fronts.
 
yankeehater said:
What position do you think he should play?
Click to expand...

He isn't an NFL player. But if he wanted to impress people at Senior Week he should have stayed at RB, which is where he played the bulk of the year. At least there someone places the ball into his hands for him and he can do the one thing he is good at, run.
 
yankeehater said:
What position do you think he should play?
Click to expand...

He's got the same problem that 80% of the College Spread guys have when they get to the next level. They can't throw the "NFL Throws." Dennis Dixon, Pat White, Tim Tebow, Gabbert, Tannehill, etc. etc. See also the System guys from Hawaii, Texas Tech, and Houston.

Lucked out to have Cam, Kaep and RG3 work out. At least so far. We'll see how they are still performing in 3-4 years.
 
Lonestar said:
He's got the same problem that 80% of the College Spread guys have when they get to the next level. They can't throw the "NFL Throws." Dennis Dixon, Pat White, Tim Tebow, Gabbert, Tannehill, etc. etc. See also the System guys from Hawaii, Texas Tech, and Houston.

Lucked out to have Cam, Kaep and RG3 work out. At least so far. We'll see how they are still performing in 3-4 years.
Click to expand...

Hey thats my QB!
 
Lonestar said:
He's got the same problem that 80% of the College Spread guys have when they get to the next level. They can't throw the "NFL Throws." Dennis Dixon, Pat White, Tim Tebow, Gabbert, Tannehill, etc. etc. See also the System guys from Hawaii, Texas Tech, and Houston.

Lucked out to have Cam, Kaep and RG3 work out. At least so far. We'll see how they are still performing in 3-4 years.
Click to expand...

Disagree on Gabbert and Tannie. Most of the guys you list don't have NFL arms (Keenum, Harrell) or such flawed deliveries that they can't be salvaged (Tebow, White). Gabbert and Tannie can make any throw. Gabbert is probably a lost cause b/c of between the ears issues, and it's too early for a call on Tannie.

It will be the same with Landry Jones. He can and has made every throw you will ever ask an NFL QB to make. Has some minor mechanics issues, but it's all going to come down to pocket command and reading defenses
 
squicken said:
Disagree on Gabbert and Tannie. Most of the guys you list don't have NFL arms (Keenum, Harrell) or such flawed deliveries that they can't be salvaged (Tebow, White). Gabbert and Tannie can make any throw. Gabbert is probably a lost cause b/c of between the ears issues, and it's too early for a call on Tannie.

It will be the same with Landry Jones. He can and has made every throw you will ever ask an NFL QB to make. Has some minor mechanics issues, but it's all going to come down to pocket command and reading defenses
Click to expand...

Nope, calling it now. Gabb and Tannie: DONE. Future Rex Grossman's.
 
squicken said:
Disagree on Gabbert and Tannie. Most of the guys you list don't have NFL arms (Keenum, Harrell) or such flawed deliveries that they can't be salvaged (Tebow, White). Gabbert and Tannie can make any throw. Gabbert is probably a lost cause b/c of between the ears issues, and it's too early for a call on Tannie.

It will be the same with Landry Jones. He can and has made every throw you will ever ask an NFL QB to make. Has some minor mechanics issues, but it's all going to come down to pocket command and reading defenses
Click to expand...

Caplan was saying that scouts are telling him that Jones could be the next Wilson. It will be really interesting to see where he winds up going in the draft. I think Wilson's success this year will hurt QBs taken in the 2nd and 3rd for the next few years. Everyone is going to expect those guys to step right in and play well. I think media types have already forgotten how slowly cheatin Pete broke Wilson in this year.
 
yankeehater said:
Caplan was saying that scouts are telling him that Jones could be the next Wilson. It will be really interesting to see where he winds up going in the draft. I think Wilson's success this year will hurt QBs taken in the 2nd and 3rd for the next few years. Everyone is going to expect those guys to step right in and play well. I think media types have already forgotten how slowly cheatin Pete broke Wilson in this year.
Click to expand...

I'll say this about Jones: he was not well coached in college. Not sure what exactly the issue is, but Oklahoma's version of the spread doesn't yield big plays. It really hasn't in nearly a decade outside of Adrian Peterson. It's all 10 play drive dink and dunk. But he has big arm and is more mobile than he ever got to show in college

So I'd never draft Jones in round 1, and he has 0% chance of doing what Wilson did year 1. But a team that can develop QBs could turn him into a good player. Maybe. It's the hardest position to evaluate. He struggled his whole career with pressure. I don't think he's going to be good, but worth a flier in the 3rd round
 
Tannehill's not a bum, far from it, on a different level than Gabbert.

Gabbert had no pocket presence, and still doesn't. Unless he has the perfect pocket, he's not getting shit done. Drops his eyes at the first sign of trouble.
 
LJ11 said:
Tannehill's not a bum, far from it, on a different level than Gabbert.

Gabbert had no pocket presence, and still doesn't. Unless he has the perfect pocket, he's not getting shit done. Drops his eyes at the first sign of trouble.
Click to expand...

Yeah I don't get Tannie comparison either. They will be trying to upgrade 7 or 8 of their offensive positions. One of the most talent poor offenses in the league. Hardly stepped into a situation like the other rookie QBs, or Kaep
 
:jnc

Just kidding! Ramses Barden? What do Giants fans think of him? It might just be chatter, but I've seen a couple of things saying Denver could target him. I know he's a big guy 6'6", but haven't seen much else besides that. I think it would be an interesting pick up to have DT as the one, Ramses as the two, and Decker in the slot. Maybe I'm jumping the gun and he sucks?
 
Tannehill was supposed to be a major project and came out and played better than anyone expected on a team majorly lacking in offensive talent.

I don't get how he's a bum or "done."
 
I never thought of Tannehill as a strong QB candidate when he was at A&M. They had such a strong running game that I'm surprised Tannehill has made any waves at all as a QB.

I am surprised that Weeden has been so awful. Is it the Browns, Weeden, or both that is to blame? I know Justin Blackmon made him look good in college but everything about Weeden screamed quality QB to me except for the age factor.
 
Godslay said:
:jnc

Just kidding! Ramses Barden? What do Giants fans think of him? It might just be chatter, but I've seen a couple of things saying Denver could target him. I know he's a big guy 6'6", but haven't seen much else besides that. I think it would be an interesting pick up to have DT as the one, Ramses as the two, and Decker in the slot. Maybe I'm jumping the gun and he sucks?
Click to expand...

He's an interesting prospect at 6'6 for sure but most of the giant faithful know him as a prospect that hasn't lived up to the billing. He's has had little impact in the 3(?) years that he has been with the giants with the exception of the Carolina game this year. He just doesn't seem to have the skills to get separation from corners nor the burst off the line that you need from an nfl wide out.
 
Talon said:
Dennard Robinson is the worst passer to come out of college football since Kurt Kittner.
Click to expand...
Hey, don't hate on my boy Kittner! He could make the reads! He just had an arm that made Chad Pennington look like Brett Favre.

I have no idea why the Falcons kept him on the roster. I cringed watching him try to throw the ball downfield.
 
Talon said:
I'm pretty confident that you and I can throw the ball harder than KK4.
Click to expand...
I want to disagree with this, except I think you're right. Dude was fun to watch in college (best QB we've had at Illinois since I've been alive! Suck it Jeff George!), though part of that is that he had like 4 NFL caliber receivers to throw to.

Kind of an interesting case study wrt to quarterbacking in the college game VS the pro game.
 
Elfforkusu said:
I want to disagree with this, except I think you're right. Dude was fun to watch in college (best QB we've had at Illinois since I've been alive! Suck it Jeff George!), though part of that is that he had like 4 NFL caliber receivers to throw to.
Click to expand...
Kurt%20Kittner.jpg


Thank God the quality of QB play has risen dramatically.
 
yankeehater said:
Caplan was saying that scouts are telling him that Jones could be the next Wilson. It will be really interesting to see where he winds up going in the draft. I think Wilson's success this year will hurt QBs taken in the 2nd and 3rd for the next few years. Everyone is going to expect those guys to step right in and play well. I think media types have already forgotten how slowly cheatin Pete broke Wilson in this year.
Click to expand...

Lol landry has no chance of being Wilson. People are already claiming he is undraftable after the Senior Bowl due to his horrible pocket presence. This year just sucks for any teams needing a QB.
 
baconbm said:
He's an interesting prospect at 6'6 for sure but most of the giant faithful know him as a prospect that hasn't lived up to the billing. He's has had little impact in the 3(?) years that he has been with the giants with the exception of the Carolina game this year. He just doesn't seem to have the skills to get separation from corners nor the burst off the line that you need from an nfl wide out.
Click to expand...

Thanks. His size is intriguing, as well as the potential to use him in the red zone.
 
Watched Raven/Skins. Not sure what was bigger waste of time, trying to get my pin number reset on my debit card (don't ask), or watching this game.

Flacco has a lot of dumb fuck in him. Kyle Shanahan is a shitty play caller, RG couldn't read at the mesh, and the Ravens were trying to kill Griffin every chance they got.

So many opportunities by the Skins, but the playcalling made no sense. Backed up deap in their own end they leave the front side DE and OLB unblocked and run the option to their side, Ravens fly in and just blow up the mesh point. Next play the Skins look like they have them out leveraged, they brought in an extra blocker, diamond like formation, again they don't block the DE/OLB but they can pick the free rusher up and option off the other unblocked defender. Nope, PA pass.

Ravens LBs can't cover, that's nothing new. Ellerbe's done a better job in the playoffs. Kruger was a mess at times, and blew up plays on other downs. They left the center uncovered a lot, probably due to the zone blocking scheme, but I'm not sure on why they did what they did. Felt like the Ravens were just lucky at stopping them.

Game made me sleepy.

Edit: Also, the Ravens strength might be the Niners biggest weakness. Niners safety play is straight junk, they're dumb fucks back there, you can take advantage of those idiots, but the Ravens tackles are also kind of shitty making it harder to get downfield and attack those nimrods.
 
I'm hammering the line tomorrow if it gets to -2 SF. Love all these stories that are translating to lower and lower lines.

Baltimore is going to get hammered. Unless the gameplan is to hurt Kaep so that Smith has to play, Balt is in trouble.
 
talisayNon said:
I'm hammering the line tomorrow if it gets to -2 SF. Love all these stories that are translating to lower and lower lines.

Baltimore is going to get hammered. Unless the gameplan is to hurt Kaep so that Smith has to play, Balt is in trouble.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's how I felt before rewatching a couple of games this week, then I second guessed myself because the Ravens are capable on DL, but their LBs are garbage and take forever to make a play/shed a block. Ravens are in all likely hood going to get the snot beat out of them unless that DL goes off and the Niners just disappear.

Ravens miss Webb, a guy who can press all day long, shed and attack in the run game as well. If go back to that Oregon/Stanford game, one thing that stood out besides the DL getting off blocks, is how the secondary got off blocks as well. Knifed through and made timely tackles, that's something the Ravens miss with Webb out. Corners play so off right now, 8-10 yards off, you can set them up beautifully if they stare in the backfield too long.
 
LJ11 said:
Watched Raven/Skins. Not sure what was bigger waste of time, trying to get my pin number reset on my debit card (don't ask), or watching this game.

Flacco has a lot of dumb fuck in him. Kyle Shanahan is a shitty play caller, RG couldn't read at the mesh, and the Ravens were trying to kill Griffin every chance they got.

So many opportunities by the Skins, but the playcalling made no sense. Backed up deap in their own end they leave the front side DE and OLB unblocked and run the option to their side, Ravens fly in and just blow up the mesh point. Next play the Skins look like they have them out leveraged, they brought in an extra blocker, diamond like formation, again they don't block the DE/OLB but they can pick the free rusher up and option off the other unblocked defender. Nope, PA pass.

Ravens LBs can't cover, that's nothing new. Ellerbe's done a better job in the playoffs. Kruger was a mess at times, and blew up plays on other downs. They left the center uncovered a lot, probably due to the zone blocking scheme, but I'm not sure on why they did what they did. Felt like the Ravens were just lucky at stopping them.

Game made me sleepy.

Edit: Also, the Ravens strength might be the Niners biggest weakness. Niners safety play is straight junk, they're dumb fucks back there, you can take advantage of those idiots, but the Ravens tackles are also kind of shitty making it harder to get downfield and attack those nimrods.
Click to expand...

Don't see Niners winning this. As you said, that safety play is killer and will compensate for the Ravens soft middle. What i've seen of the Niners they rely a lot on that high/lo.
 
DeaconKnowledge said:
Don't see Niners winning this. As you said, that safety play is killer and will compensate for the Ravens soft middle. What i've seen of the Niners they rely a lot on that high/lo.
Click to expand...
Well, yeah, you can classify them as a west coast team, they love the triangle reads and high/lows are a part of that.

They also rely on the run game and playaction, and if the Skins game is any indication, Ravens LBs are ripe for the picking, they got sucked in repeatedly. Secondary plays so off, and stares on the backfield, Niners love the double move. I'm not totally discounting the Ravens but they need their tackles to hold up, need to attack the middle of the field get their safeties to slip up, much like the Falcons did.
 
LJ11 said:
Well, yeah, you can classify them as a west coast team, they love the triangle reads and high/lows are a part of that.

They also rely on the run game and playaction, and if the Skins game is any indication, Ravens LBs are ripe for the picking, they got sucked in repeatedly. Secondary plays so off, and stares on the backfield, Niners love the double move. I'm not totally discounting the Ravens but they need their tackles to hold up, need to attack the middle of the field get their safeties to slip up, much like the Falcons did.
Click to expand...

Ravens will go hard at the middle with Pitta. Like Chuck said, their 11 personnel is their bread and butter. Caldwell doesn't go to Rice in the passing game as consistently as Cameron did, like to use his horses Smith on the outside to make a play, finally has Boldin using his size too. Should never have gotten past the Broncos like that but the whole game was a farce.

I lose confidence with Kaepernick making throws over the middle. Haven't rewatched either of their games but I don't remember him going there often. I know Jim likes his tight ends though, will need a big game from Walker.
 
DeaconKnowledge said:
Ravens will go hard at the middle with Pitta. Like Chuck said, their 11 personnel is their bread and butter. Caldwell doesn't go to Rice in the passing game as consistently as Cameron did, like to use his horses Smith on the outside to make a play, finally has Boldin using his size too. Should never have gotten past the Broncos like that but the whole game was a farce.

I lose confidence with Kaepernick making throws over the middle. Haven't rewatched either of their games but I don't remember him going there often. I know Jim likes his tight ends though, will need a big game from Walker.
Click to expand...
You're spot on about Pitta, he's the pivot in my mind. If Bowman or Willis neutralize him it'll be a tough road for the Ravens, but if he gets going, and those safeties start trying to give help, look out.

I'm more concerened about the Ravens D. As squicken has brought up, and the Seahawks late in the season clearly demonstrated, you have to play that safety in the box and I'm not sure I trust that secondary to hold up. They miss Webb, press man corner who can man up with little help.

Edit I don't trust Flacco either, he makes some dumb decisions.
 
LJ11 said:
Edit I don't trust Flacco either, he makes some dumb decisions.
Click to expand...

There's a debate about Flacco and his crazy low INT rate, given that he has a poor completion % and throws deep so much. He either is just very lucky, or also benefits from his team always being in games. Rarely has to force throws into coverage as he scrambles to come back. It's crazy he's now a $20m/yr player after nearly losing the season on a 4th and 29 checkdown
 
squicken said:
There's a debate about Flacco and his crazy low INT rate, given that he has a poor completion % and throws deep so much. He either is just very lucky, or also benefits from his team always being in games. Rarely has to force throws into coverage as he scrambles to come back
Click to expand...

Torrey Smith and Ray Rice are the reason he has low ints.

Rice has always been Flacco's go to guy, making hay out of those short 3 yard dumps.

Smith is what's made Flacco dangerous. Flacco will throw it to him whenever they get Smith 1 on 1, and Smith comes down with it every time..
 
DeaconKnowledge said:
Torrey Smith and Ray Rice are the reason he has low ints.

Rice has always been Flacco's go to guy, making hay out of those short 3 yard dumps.

Smith is what's made Flacco dangerous. Flacco will throw it to him whenever they get Smith 1 on 1, and Smith comes down with it every time..
Click to expand...

How many times has Smith played DB on a bad deepball? Can remember a few times where he saved an int.

Don't think Flacco read defenses well, and loves to lock on. Still, he somehow gets the job done. What saves Flacco at times is that he's willing to get popped, doesn't drop his eyes, keeps looking downfield.
 
LJ11 said:
How many times has Smith played DB on a bad deepball? Can remember a few times where he saved an int.

Don't think Flacco read defenses well, and loves to lock on. Still, he somehow gets the job done. What saves Flacco at times is that he's willing to get popped, doesn't drop his eyes, keeps looking downfield.
Click to expand...

At least 4 times that I can remember. Smith is highly underrated. Great speed and hands, with rare physicality for such a lean guy. He's everything I wish Wallace was.

Before Smith, Flacco needed the play drawn up exactly to be successful. His miracle 92 yard drive against Pitt last year was a great piece of playcalling - couple good rubs to open up space underneath, and throws against formation to create mismatches. All of Flacco's almost ints are on plays where he still goes to where it's drawn and it's blown up.

Cameron got a bad rap I think, did a lot of work to give Flacco easy reads all over the field.
 
Finished first half Ravens/Niners. No movement in the run game for the Ravens, got nowhere. Attacked the middle early and often with Bolden, eventually got the safety to cheat up. With Whitner cheating they set him up late in the 2nd half, they ran Bolden over the middle on an intermediate cross, Whitner bit and they had Smith open for 7 but Flacco didn't throw a good ball. Was intercept but Smith drew a PI, shit call, two bad calls against the Niners so far, 10 point swing. Ravens redzone O was trash, not working the ball to Pitta at all.

Niners OL was a mess, better unit this year on the interior. Smith had opportunities, they blitzed him often, he had VD, had him multiple times in the first half but he was dropping his eyes quickly. Niners OL couldn't hold up. Webb's presence is felt, he can press and just play his side one on one.

Edit: Ngata also had a pretty good half, won one on one easily.

Finished the game. Davis and Rachal were awful, no trust/communication between the two, led to too many pressures. Doubt the Ravens blitz Kap as much.

Niners were baiting Flacco often in the third quarter. Ravens discovered they had Pitta on the roster and went to work. Niners disguised their split safety coverage, made it look like it was two man under when it was in fact a cover two type (never truly know what these teams are doing). Flacco thought he had the quick out to Pitta especially with the MLB trailing behind him, and the CB running with the WR, but Culliver pealed off the receiver and came back for the out. Happened twice but Flacco's arm strength and Culliver not getting over in time led to completions. You need to be pin point to get away with those throws and he was.

Ravens countered by running Pitta vertically in a smash/china concept, isolating Whitner once again. Whitner, for whatever reason, flowed to the corner route even though the CB was running underneath it and had angle. By the time he realized he fucked up it was too late, so he basically knocked Pitta to the ground. Saved a TD and wasn't called for interference.

Then the Niners countered by having Whitner rob in a split safety look. Culliver played over the top of Pitta and Whitner would go underneath if he broke inside. Pitta broke inside, Flacco throws, Whitner reacts too late and Pitta gets in for the score. Perfect coverage call, still come empty.

Probably the best exchange between the DC/OC, good stuff. Flacco got away with throws, he really doesn't give a fuck at times. You have to fit the ball in tight windows, so I guess that's a good thing, can't wait for the perfect play, need to take your chances.
 
Talking to myself at this point, but they got em on a similar concept as the Pitta TD I mentioned, this time Whitner had over the top coverage with Bowman underneath. Difference is Bolden just took it over the top instead of running the dig, Whitner never got depth.

Dude is junk.
 
LJ11 said:
Talking to myself at this point, but they got em on a similar concept as the Pitta TD I mentioned, this time Whitner had over the top coverage with Bowman underneath. Difference is Bolden just took it over the top instead of running the dig, Whitner never got depth.

Dude is junk.
Click to expand...

He got abused by Flacco just now. (Don't worry LJ, I still got you).
 
LJ11 said:
Talking to myself at this point, but they got em on a similar concept as the Pitta TD I mentioned, this time Whitner had over the top coverage with Bowman underneath. Difference is Bolden just took it over the top instead of running the dig, Whitner never got depth.

Dude is junk.
Click to expand...

Nope. Reading all of it, LJ. Not talking to yourself at all.

EDIT: Ray Lewis is getting picked on. Can't keep up with Davis.
 
Actually feel bad for Donte, he's just dumb. At least we aren't surprised, we've talked about their safety play, and S play in general during these playoffs.

Still early though, and Flacco is zinging the ball in tight spaces, may cost him at some point. Ravens are allowing themselves to get stretched horizontally. Why is Upshaw flexed wide with the TE, youre asking for trouble. Bad enough you have Lewis out there.
 
This is fucking unbelievable.

Terrible body language by the Ravens, they can't run at all. Kind of obvious but they're in trouble.

DeaconKnowledge said:
Wanna see that touchdown run again. Niners are bulls up front.
Click to expand...

Ellerbe's been selling out on the dive all game, just straight run blitzing, finally caught them in it and they paid for it.
 
Ravens trap blocking the Niners, didn't get in though.

Pierce looked better than Rice, too bad he's out.

Edit: Flacco dumb fucking it, lucky.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Sports betting |OT|
7
11K
Hideous Snake replied
ItalianGAF |OT| - Italia
3
1K
Azzurri replied
Are all American supermarkets like Costco?
13
3K
Afro Republican replied
Food |OT| GAFeteria
2
77
18K
SLoWMoTIoN replied
  • Locked
Football Thread 2017/18 |OT| Relegated to Community
397 398 399 400 401
20K
1M
D4Danger replied
Top Bottom