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American Football 101 |OT| - Schemes, breakdown and professorial talk
- Thread starter Futurevoid
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Futurevoid
Member
Damn near same route by Boldin. Works...
Futurevoid
Member
Boldin is just wow.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Guess it was too much to ask.
Did it to RG too, may have factored into some bad decisions (keep/give), but I doubt it, the Ravens gave Skins the dive.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
In the playoffs, yeah. Refs will be playing it close in the regular season. Noway that hit on Kap goes unpunished in week 10.
That was what I thought as well. The situation had the possibilities of a block (easy TD) and having Ginn return it for a TD (he's dangerous, and I thought of that Philly/NYG game from a couple years ago)
This. In a game where a defensive back is throwing bombs at a dude's junk, right in front of an official, and it's an offsetting penalty, I'm not sure what to take from this game vis a vis stopping the 49ers. The Ravens mauled the WRs all game and committed men to the box. That won't work in the regular season.
Really, that game was soccer bad. Officiating is such a disaster in this sport. I won't bother reading the megathread, but it has to suck for 49ers fans to lose like that
I didn't even realize you guys were posting in here. My bad.
They knew it was coming. The 9er's ran some variations on what they were doing. First, they stopped trying to block the outside backer and sent the lead blocker at the inside backer. They also ran it switch, where the rb went outside and Kaep inside. Finally, they let Kaep keep it and follow Gore as he lead the play. The question is, do teams want to run the option badly enough to install all of the possible plays?
They knew it was coming. The 9er's ran some variations on what they were doing. First, they stopped trying to block the outside backer and sent the lead blocker at the inside backer. They also ran it switch, where the rb went outside and Kaep inside. Finally, they let Kaep keep it and follow Gore as he lead the play. The question is, do teams want to run the option badly enough to install all of the possible plays?
More than that I think it impacts the play calling.
RG got decked in similar fashion during the Ravens/Skins game, didn't call a thing. Shit will change when a QB gets hurt, like always.
I thought it was officiated like an NHL playoff game, everything goes except blatant fuck ups. I've seen others mention that they want this in playoff football, officials swallowing their whistles, but this is the end game. Didn't think that last play was that bad to be honest. Culliver was holding all game too.
I thought it was a shit game to be honest.
I agree with this, you can't have your QB getting blown up.
Yeah it was bad a game. I know we are a touch off track here but I'm not doing the main thread. I really think the Ravens entire defensive strategy was to take advantage of "playoff football". They are so slow. How many times did they just slap a guy in the head as hard as possible at the end of a play? And SF definitely grabbed all game too, just Boldin is too strong. I can't get over how bad that crew was. So many punches thrown and offsetting penalties
I hate the idea that there are two different seasons. People watch hockey for the great athletes and skaters, not for maulers with forearms and stick grabbing.
A foul is a foul. I really hated watching that game. The Ravens remind me of the Knicks from the 90s. Just foul and do whatever it takes and hope it isn't called. Ain't cheating ain't trying I guess.
edit:
And that is why Fangio got fired in HOU. He has no ideas. Just relied on his great athletes and ran simple stuff on D. Once Justin Smith got hurt he was clueless to scheme up pressure
Goro Majima
Kitty Genovese Member
I was wondering about this as Kaep was at least shoved on every option play even if he wasn't anywhere near the action.
I don't see how you change the rules. If he's going to run from that look, how can you expect defense to not tackle him? I'd equate it to tackling the dive man in the wishbone
You can't, that's why they are going to keep lighting these guys up. That's going to be the solution. Teams won't have a spy, they'll have a designated hitter.
The heavy option PA wasn't equipped to deal with the edge blitzing tonight. Yeah it allows the QB to see the play develop but it's also a slow "animation" and it puts the ball fakee in a shitty position to get outside and help on pickup. Niners never had tailback hots which I thought was weird, I expected a lot of throws underneath Lewis to the diving back but it never came.
Elfforkusu
Member
Right. Spying is for scrambling. If it's read option, just hit the QB.
Players are always grabbing and holding though, regular season or playoffs. It's just that the line for throwing the flag is more stringent in the regular season. Guys are still going to do everything they can, and only stop when their hand gets caught in the cookie jar.
I know what you're saying, but I prefer the playoff ruleset. I just wish they'd formalize it and let them play that way all season. Some of the ticky tack stuff they call in the regular season is infuriating, even though it benefits my team (Packers) these days. At least in the playoffs if they call PI, you know it was definitely PI.
Players are always grabbing and holding though, regular season or playoffs. It's just that the line for throwing the flag is more stringent in the regular season. Guys are still going to do everything they can, and only stop when their hand gets caught in the cookie jar.
I'd rather they let some clutching and grabbing go on, than call soft stuff all game long. Fine line though, you can turn it into an ugly game if you let it go on for too long. I'm surprised they didn't call Walker for a hold on the Gore run, he didn't hold, Pollard tried to go around him, but I thought Pollard was going to sell it.
Not sure the Ravens actually stopped the Niners on D, they got lucky. They wanted to blow up the dive so they were mindlessly run blitzing Ellerbe, and Suggs was just blasting the QB. That was there gameplan, blast the center and the QB. Burned them in the third quarter though, and it looked like the Niners came up with a counter because Gore started to gash them.
Ravens are so slow up front, Kruger was MIA, Suggs was running around, Upshaw couldn't shed a block. I mean they had Upshaw and Lewis in space against Crabtree and Davis, and the Niners didn't take advantage of it enough.
Awful safety play again tonight, but it's part of the Niners style, they dare you to go deep. Normally you won't have enough time.
Aldon Smith was a miserable player after the Smith injury, how the fuck do you let Brian McKinnie kick the shit out of you?
So obvious tonight. He had three huge missed tackles. The just bounced everything outside right at him when opportunities presented themselves and he would always whiff. Guy is a liability against a team that has any desire to ever run.
I felt happy for him when Boger assigned him the penalty on the double offsides. That way people will know he was there. The thing that bugged me was Torrey Smith ran a route designed to draw a flag. Reached back and hooked Culliver to get the call. It's just so inconsistent and awful. It's a dead horse, but the game needs to be referred from the booth. You just can't see from field
But SF's goal line play calling was terrible. All rollouts on short yardage should die. Especially with Ngata out. Run right at them
@ez That's really what it comes down to. Like chuck said, I'm sure there are counters to it, but how much does SF want to be an option team? Simms made at least one good point on Kap. Still a see it throw it guy. And Davis cannot catch with his hands. Total body catcher
Definitely. For the life of me I didn't understand why they ran to the right at all, it should have been at Aldon all game long. I guess they feared Justin, but at one point Francois was in there with Aldon, and they go right at Brooks who's pretty stout and they get the run blown up.
I wonder if he's hurt or if this is who he is. He made a living off that stunt his first two years, but he threatened the corner often, could also change direction quick enough and dart inside, blew up several runs that way. You saw none of that the last month and a half.
Ghost.
They were pretty conservative for most of the game. I honestly don't recall them running a trap, maybe they did and it didn't work. With that run blitzing it may have been too risky to let someone go unblocked for a bit. Or maybe they did and it wasn't going anywhere.
Strange game, definitely the strangest SB. I ate too much junk and feel like shit.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
I think Harbaugh was afraid of Kap's fastball. Didn't want a bullet hitting a RB in the head, bouncing up and into Lewis' arms. Pretty sure that happened once this postseason already. Kaepernick has a hard time keeping the ball down low.
I assume they just didn't think they could wham Ngata.
True, he had a pretty good half of football.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Ngata didn't return in the 4th though. Rollouts weren't going to work with how physical the Ravens' receivers were. every cornerback had two hand clutches on them in the endzone. Niners o-line are studs - pull and trap them, walk Gore in.
Niners spent far too little time on that drive anyway.
They seemed to kind of have no idea what they wanted to do on offense. It was very bizarre. The way it stuck in my head was pretty much that their first half drives were wildly different but I'll have to go back and watch it. That's the feeling I got though. They kind of got their groove by sticking in that heavy pistol after the blackout. Then went spread at the goal line.
Almost seemed like Jim was too clever by half because he thought he needed to outwit his brother while John just did the same ol' same ol'.
Guy can't move laterally. I don't think it's a lack of effort, he just cannot move side to side or change directions. He's old as fuck, dude!
I'll have to re-watch that INT, but it looked like he made zero effort to break it up
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Self preservation. He wants to run sideline routes exclusively. On the int he knew the hit was coming, wanted nothing to do with it.
It may have been too high. Will have to catch it on Rewind. But Suggs, Reed, Lewis and Ngata were willing to inject God knows what to get themselves able to play. Randy will always be the Jeff George of WRs to me. Had a HoF career but left a lot on the table
I feel about Flacco like I feel about Matt Ryan. Give a QB that much time and good WRs, and the average ones will look like they are worth $20m/yr. I watch in jealousy as he just throws up passes and his WRs are behind the secondary or catch contested pass after contested pass
DeaconKnowledge
Member
It was too high, but Moss wasn't even tracking the ball. He wanted no part of that play even before it was botched.
No. Flacco had the game of his life. Like I said, Ravens' coaches know his weaknesses and work around them. Really went hard at the safeties this game, specifically Goldson
Kaep missing on that roll out to the right for the easy six in the first quarter is the defining play of the game in my mind. The 49ers had every opportunity to win this game and found ways to blow it. Kaep included. He played real, real poor in the red zone.
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/42452/59/team-needs--and--roster-rankings?pg=1
Breakdown of team rosters and needs. Anyone disagree with the assessment for their team? Does that belong in this thread? I'm not talking about the ranking of the rosters. Just the roster analysis
Breakdown of team rosters and needs. Anyone disagree with the assessment for their team? Does that belong in this thread? I'm not talking about the ranking of the rosters. Just the roster analysis
Dutch Gronk
Banned
I think WR and a fast LB are the Patriots their biggest need. We have been doing what we're doing on O for too long now and it just doesn't work when the playoffs come around. Lloyd is nice, but he's not the answer on the outside. A big/strong guy on the outside would be real nice, hell an Anquain Boldin type guy would be amazing. Brady isn't going to throw it deep, but a WR who can dominate with size/strength could work.
LB is also a big need unless if they force Hightower to drop 30 pounds, this group is just too slow and always a liability in coverage, the endless amounts of drop off passes to RBs out of the backfield and TEs over the middle are always getting 7-15 yards against this team.
CBs will be a question mark until they re-sign Talib and Arrington. Re-sign those guys and with the return of Ras-I Dowling this could be a good mix. Talib and Dennard on the outside with Ras-I as a back-up and Arrington in the slot where he actually plays well.
Need another safety, although I liked the play of Tavon Wilson throughout the year and are curious about how he plays after another year in camp bunched up with McCourty at the back end.
Vollmer was the best RT in the league when healthy, re-siging him will be a priority, focus on some depth on the Oline and they should be good to go with the best Oline coach in the world.
I don't watch enough NE to know if Brady really can't throw deep anymore, but you guys really do need a deep threat for the playoffs. Having to go 9-10 plays for a score just isn't working vs the better defenses. A pass rusher gets loose, a pass it dropped, and false start.
Or it could just be not having Gronk. I mean he's one of the most unique players in the league from a matchup standpoint. Hard to say they should be able to just absorb his loss
Any time someone lists backup QB as a position of need I think they are an asshole, frankly.
Also, I think this belongs in the other thread. Team specific stuff like this should go there.
My mental breakdown is "if it's about players/teams it goes in the main thread, if it's about schemes or specific play breakdowns, it's this thread"
Futurevoid
Member
I agree. Team specific roster discussions should be in the main offseason thread.
I guess we can talk prospects, but not how they would fit on a specific team. You watch a lot of UT. How is Vaccarro? Would you want [your team] to draft him?
Futurevoid
Member
Sure can. I think its inevitable we'll get some "how does this player fit into this scheme" conversation as well and I think that's ok as well as long as there's something more to say than "I like this guy cause he's fast". I mean if you think someone would be a good prospect for the Cowboys and are curious if a certain defensive player fits into a 4-3, then that's a fine question that can be delved into, IMO.
BaltimoreLarry
Member
I agree whole heartedly, which is why I agree with you, Squicken. We're going to overpay Flacco and with losing Ray, Ed, and Birk to retirement, and most likely Kruger, Ellerbe, Cary Williams, Kemoneatu. Not to mention RFAs Dickson, Pitta, and Arthur Jones. These are starters. Plus, I hear we may part with Boldin and Jacoby for the cap space. All to pay Joe. You asked before if I'd rather two 1sts for Joe....absolutely, but it ain't happening. Not because someone won't give it up, we won't make the deal. Our only chance is if Flacco becomes this postseason QB during the regular season, Torrey learns to run a route, and we trade Rice. Pierce is ready, and with that cap space and picks, I do trust Ozzie to put a contender back together. He's a miracle man.
But it's not going to happen. Having said that, we won the Superbowl yesterday, and if you asked me if I'd rather have that win and then be irrelevant for 5 years, or lose and keep being a contender and possibly win, I'd probably take the win.
I think he's about as solid as they come. Good coverage skills, can get pressure on the QB, and is generally a steady tackler, and tons of experience against playing spread offenses. I think he'll be a pretty solid player for whatever team he plays for.