DeaconKnowledge
Member
Probably harder to transition to the NFL for the trench game.
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American Football 101 |OT| - Schemes, breakdown and professorial talk
- Thread starter Futurevoid
- Start date
Probably harder to transition to the NFL for the trench game.
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/39725/60/draft-2012-mayocks-top-fives?pg=1
Mayock's initial top 5 from last year. What stands out is that he's solid on skill guys, but way off on DL/OL/LB. I wonder if it is harder, even for a trained eye, to see that on tape. They always say "trust the tape", and you know Mayock talks to scouts. So it's obvious even those guys are fluid with interior players
Just don't think he watched enough of some guys. He's doing ND games, Thursday Night games, flying around the country and doing the prep work that comes with being up in the booth. Hard to do everything.
Look at that dude Jeremiah, does dick and he still hasn't watched everyone.
Now for some X's and O's
Some good breakdowns of match zone or pattern reading or whatever the hell they're calling it now. Basically, zone coverage morphing into man coverage.
Start with the 3 Deep/Single High Coverage
TCU Quarters Coverage aka 2 Read, also seen Quarters described as Double Robber.
Saban Quarters Coverage
Cutups are down for the last write up. Sucks because the Ark/Bama footage had a couple of good examples of Petrino breaking down the D with motion.
Think they're good reads.
Some good breakdowns of match zone or pattern reading or whatever the hell they're calling it now. Basically, zone coverage morphing into man coverage.
Start with the 3 Deep/Single High Coverage
TCU Quarters Coverage aka 2 Read, also seen Quarters described as Double Robber.
Saban Quarters Coverage
Cutups are down for the last write up. Sucks because the Ark/Bama footage had a couple of good examples of Petrino breaking down the D with motion.
Think they're good reads.
Futurevoid
Member
Awesome stuff, LJ. Thanks.
If you guys can give me a timestamp/game on a Cover 3 pattern match, I'll make a GIF and then maybe someone can point out what is going on? Maybe this is what the defense does and this is what the offense does to attack it?
Reading LJ's articles, it almost makes Tampa 2 look quaint. But I remember David Carr could absolutely not throw passes between the safeties and LBs. Just physically incapable of arcing it over the LBs. Always something I look for now with college guys. The guys who have rifle arms but either throw it on a rope or throw it on a rainbow, with nothing in between
Reading LJ's articles, it almost makes Tampa 2 look quaint. But I remember David Carr could absolutely not throw passes between the safeties and LBs. Just physically incapable of arcing it over the LBs. Always something I look for now with college guys. The guys who have rifle arms but either throw it on a rope or throw it on a rainbow, with nothing in between
Futurevoid
Member
Figure I'll cross post this:
Kirwan goes over the current ILB prospects for those interested:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/p...many-teams-fishing-for-middle-linebacker-help
Kirwan goes over the current ILB prospects for those interested:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/p...many-teams-fishing-for-middle-linebacker-help
Kevin Minter, LSU: Kevin is physical, can run and easily drop in the Tampa-2 scheme. He has solid tackling skills, can strike a blocker and disengage and plays under control. He fits in any scheme and can be a 3-down linebacker. In the Washington game, he lined up to the third receiver in trips and covered him well in man coverage calls.
Alec Ogletree, Georgia: Alec was suspended four games for a failed drug test, which is a red flag for some teams and a yellow flag for others. He has range and is fluid in his movements. I like him more in a 4-3 front where he has a shaded nose tackle in front of him so he can run and hit. His former safety skills show up in coverage and speed. He has the skills to be a 3-down linebacker.
Nico Johnson, Alabama: I watched Johnson for a week at the Senior Bowl, including the game, and had multiple conversations with him about football. He is a conscientious person with good football instincts. He is a better pass dropper than advertised and went to the Senior Bowl to show he can stay on the field in all situations. He should be considered a 2-down linebacker in any scheme and reminds me a little of Takeo Spikes.
Arthur Brown, Kansas State: Brown may be a little light for some schemes but his instincts and production (192 tackles during the last 2 seasons) make him an excellent MLB candidate for teams that need speed on defense. I watched the Oregon and Texas games and he was in on over 20 tackles combined. He may move to WLB but has the aptitude to handle the middle.
Manti Te'o, Notre Dame: I was disappointed in his performance against Alabama so I went back and looked at other game tapes. The Stanford game raised as many questions as answers. He is aggressive but he struggles to disengage. It almost seems like he has to come down hill so fast just to beat the blocker to the point of attack or he's tied up. He takes chances trying to make plays and it doesn't always work out. At times he reminded me of when Junior Seau first came in the NFL. At other times he would overplay a run and miss the tackle. There was a lack of awareness in zone coverages at times when he didn't 'feel' the receiver in his zone. I had some concerns about how often he leaves his feet to make a tackle and miss. He needs to be in a 4-3 defense and the middle may be too much traffic for him to sift through to make plays.
Kevin Reddick, North Carolina: At the Senior Bowl he demonstrated he can be a thumper when it comes to stopping the inside run game. He will probably play pro football at close to 250 lbs. He is a good fit in a 3-4 defense as the strong inside backer taking on a guard. Some questioned his motor during the season, but his effort in Mobile was more than satisfactory. If your run defense has problems, especially against power-run teams, Reddick could be your answer. The guy makes plays behind the line of scrimmage. I talked with him and he acknowledged he can be overly aggressive (penalties), but he is a two-year captain and a solid 2-down player.
Jon Bostic, Florida: He dropped out of the Senior Bowl, which was disappointing, but his film study revealed a lot about his NFL potential. He is not the striker Minter, Johnson and Reddick are but he sees things well and wants to play more of a finesse style. In the Ohio State game he didn't convince me he has the physical strike to neutralize blockers but he did show some sideline-to-sideline run skills. Bostic needs to be covered up in a 4-3 front.
Kiko Alonzo, Oregon: Another MLB who doesn't always have the explosiveness at the point of attack. He is not the athlete Minter or Te'o are and appeared a step slow at times. Some would say he does not possess the fast-twitch required to win in the middle. After watching the Kansas State game I felt like he might be more suited to a Sam linebacker spot in a 4-3 defense. Another issue that surfaced was the easy way with which blockers got into his legs.
This is a great article on the evolution of the option. Really, it's about how teams are using the threat of the option to open other areas of opportunity. Grabowski is awesome. The guy writes constantly and is very open with information.
http://smartfootball.com/offense/musical-chairs-packaged-plays-and-the-evolution-of-option-football
It also reminded me that I wanted to pass along this post that further explained a pretty interesting article on "objective" QB evaluation.
http://www.afmservers.com/share/?p=1106
Do any of you guys subscribe to AFM?
http://smartfootball.com/offense/musical-chairs-packaged-plays-and-the-evolution-of-option-football
Offenses are beginning to do more things outside of the stick/draw, stick/screen and zone bubble realm. For example, take a double tight, double flank formation against a 4-3. With 3 linebackers between the tight ends and two-high safeties the flat has a void that can only be filled on the snap of the ball by a rotating safety or a linebacker leaving the tackle box. Baylor had some interesting wrinkles in packaged plays when Robert Griffin III played for them in attacking this type of defense. In an outside zone read play that makes RG III the decision maker, but not the runner, he executes a read on the backside defensive end and linebacker who are the nearest defenders to the tight end into the boundary. In this play the wide receiver takes a forced outside release vertical route to take the corner out of the play.
The tight end works through the outside shoulder of the defensive end and runs a flat route. If the defensive end widens, the quarterback gives the ball to the running back on the zone play. If the defensive end closes on the run RGIII pulls the ball and throws it to the TE open in the flat. The play relies on the defense playing the run and leaving the boundary flat open. Defenses can have an answer to stop this by rolling a safety to the boundary flat, but that leaves them vulnerable in other areas and in effect they are rolling away from where the ball is being run which is less than ideal for them.
It also reminded me that I wanted to pass along this post that further explained a pretty interesting article on "objective" QB evaluation.
http://www.afmservers.com/share/?p=1106
Do any of you guys subscribe to AFM?
This is a great article on the evolution of the option. Really, it's about how teams are using the threat of the option to open other areas of opportunity. Grabowski is awesome. The guy writes constantly and is very open with information.
http://smartfootball.com/offense/musical-chairs-packaged-plays-and-the-evolution-of-option-football
It also reminded me that I wanted to pass along this post that further explained a pretty interesting article on "objective" QB evaluation.
http://www.afmservers.com/share/?p=1106
Do any of you guys subscribe to AFM?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD7KIsg4Kh0&feature=player_detailpage#t=795s
I can't get over how old Weeden is when I try to watch that.
Mature qb's make mature decisions!
All the OL weigh-ins coming out now. Lane Johnson seems light for how tall he is, but I guess so does Joeckel. Warmack is 3.5" shorter than both guys and has longer arms
Josh Norris of NFL.com has an article up on what drills best predict success for various positions. 20 yard shuttle for OL and 3 cone for DEs. Was just 3 years ago that all we got was 40 and maybe their bench reps
edit: Looks like Ertz is an inch shorter than listed at Stanford, and has short arms. Eifert was also 6'5" but arms two inches longer. Two extra inches for QB throwing to back of endzone
Josh Norris of NFL.com has an article up on what drills best predict success for various positions. 20 yard shuttle for OL and 3 cone for DEs. Was just 3 years ago that all we got was 40 and maybe their bench reps
edit: Looks like Ertz is an inch shorter than listed at Stanford, and has short arms. Eifert was also 6'5" but arms two inches longer. Two extra inches for QB throwing to back of endzone
All the OL weigh-ins coming out now. Lane Johnson seems light for how tall he is, but I guess so does Joeckel. Warmack is 3.5" shorter than both guys and has longer arms
Josh Norris of NFL.com has an article up on what drills best predict success for various positions. 20 yard shuttle for OL and 3 cone for DEs. Was just 3 years ago that all we got was 40 and maybe their bench reps
edit: Looks like Ertz is an inch shorter than listed at Stanford, and has short arms. Eifert was also 6'5" but arms two inches longer. Two extra inches for QB throwing to back of endzone
Pretty sure we've been getting those numbers for more than just 3 years, it's just more readily available with everyone and their mother retweeting them. Much easier to keep track of things.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1538076-where-can-the-miami-dolphins-improve-most-for-2013
Look at Colts and Dolphins approach to helping their QB. Just silly to give up on Tannie so early
Look at Colts and Dolphins approach to helping their QB. Just silly to give up on Tannie so early
Though look at how differently the Colts handled things for Luck.
They re-signed Reggie Wayne to a three-year deal to give Luck a much-needed veteran receiver. Miami traded Brandon Marshall to Chicago, where Marshall went on to have a monster season for the Bears. Miami also had to cut Chad Johnson before the season for his off-field drama. Johnson easily would have led the team in receiving had he lasted.
In the draft, the Colts armed Luck with skill players like Coby Fleener, Dwayne Allen, T.Y. Hilton and Vick Ballard. They were major contributors to the Colts 11-5 playoff season.
The Dolphins waited until the third round to take tight end Michael Egnew, who was inactive for every game until the final two of the season, finishing with no catches.
No wide receiver was chosen until B.J. Cunningham in the sixth round (did not make the 53-man roster), and the Dolphins finished with Rishard Matthews in the seventh round. Matthews ended 2012 with 11 catches, or as many as Marshall had after Week 2.
Even Brandon Weeden was given more to work with in Cleveland. Hard to definitively say Tannehill had the toughest situation of all the rookies, given he was not asked to throw a ton, but he was clearly throwing to a lot of scraps.
Great quarterbacks will ultimately get the most out of the receivers they are given, and if Tannehill really is a franchise quarterback, then he will do the same. But you still have to have a bit more than what he was working with in 2012 to have big NFL success. This is a young player converted from playing wide receiver in college. Hes not a natural a la Marino.
I've been able to read up a bit more on Patterson, and watch some of the cut ups. Guy just seems too raw. Also maybe even a little lazy. Gives up real easy. Hopkins is definitely not lazy, nor does he give up. But might be just too slow. Can't even separate in college
It's been so long since I saw Hard Knocks, but they could have started Moore I think. I just remember during the draft how impressed I was with Indy. It was like they had seen all the failures of #1 QBs and actually learned a lesson. Kept Wayne and drafted heavy on offense
You could tell on Hard Knocks that Miami's offense would be a disaster all year
I thought his point was that the Dolphins sent Tannehill out to fail. However, I believe that Miami's plan before the season was to start Gerrard, and let Tannehill learn while they built the team up.
It's been so long since I saw Hard Knocks, but they could have started Moore I think. I just remember during the draft how impressed I was with Indy. It was like they had seen all the failures of #1 QBs and actually learned a lesson. Kept Wayne and drafted heavy on offense
You could tell on Hard Knocks that Miami's offense would be a disaster all year
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Reaching in one draft for bodies at WR isn't going to fix Miami's problem.
What was the reason for letting go of Marshall? He was a headcase and or the money? Then they turned around and brought in another headcase in Ocho?
Article makes a solid point but its nothing new or revolutionary. Some teams do well in providing their QB with skill position players to help grow together and others seem to operate without direction.
Article makes a solid point but its nothing new or revolutionary. Some teams do well in providing their QB with skill position players to help grow together and others seem to operate without direction.
Reaching in one draft for bodies at WR isn't going to fix Miami's problem.
We all know Greg Jennings isn't worth $12m, and neither is Welker. But they are so far under the cap, they should probably consider above market deals that are heavily front-loaded for both. Be able to cut them in year 3 with minimal hurt
We all know Greg Jennings isn't worth $12m, and neither is Welker. But they are so far under the cap, they should probably consider above market deals that are heavily front-loaded for both. Be able to cut them in year 3 with minimal hurt
It's public knowledge that Mike Wallace is their #1 priority. Jennings and Welker are short term fixes, and Miami appears to have a long range strategy. Actually, that's kind of the point of the last 20 posts or so. Do you want to look good now or actually be good later? And how does that fit with a young qb? Do you destroy his confidence by having him get the crap kicked out of him or is that valuable experience?
It's public knowledge that Mike Wallace is their #1 priority. Jennings and Welker are short term fixes, and Miami appears to have a long range strategy. Actually, that's kind of the point of the last 20 posts or so. Do you want to look good now or actually be good later? And how does that fit with a young qb? Do you destroy his confidence by having him get the crap kicked out of him or is that valuable experience?
Was Wallace undone this past year by Haley's offense, or was it something more? As far as valuable experience, I don't think it ever helps a QB to have WRs that can't get open. There's nothing to learn from that.
Jennings/Welker just an obvious short-term fix while they develop later round projects. Have to hope that Philbin and staff can coach them better than Sparano did
So squicken hopped on the Eifert wagon I see. Get in line bitch!
haha it's true. w/o pads he is clearly the more explosive/fluid guy. Will need to watch them both again on Youtube. When I casually watch, it's not something I pay attention to as far as lining up on CBs vs LBs. What always struck me was how much more open Ertz seemed to get. Similar to Hopkins and Patterson
haha it's true. w/o pads he is clearly the more explosive/fluid guy. Will need to watch them both again on Youtube. When I casually watch, it's not something I pay attention to as far as lining up on CBs vs LBs. What always struck me was how much more open Ertz seemed to get. Similar to Hopkins and Patterson
Watched a lot of Eifert, and he may not be a speed demon, but his ability to go up and high point the ball is unmatched. It's ridiculous. Plus, ND played him all over the field, on the line, slot, outside, everywhere.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Was Wallace undone this past year by Haley's offense, or was it something more? As far as valuable experience, I don't think it ever helps a QB to have WRs that can't get open. There's nothing to learn from that.
Jennings/Welker just an obvious short-term fix while they develop later round projects. Have to hope that Philbin and staff can coach them better than Sparano did
I don't really think Welker is a "fix" for any team. Certainly not the Dolphins. Really interested in seeing what type of looks he gets in FA.
Dutch Gronk
Banned
If Swope is 4.44 and Stills 4.37, then I'm the King of England. Neither guy plays anything like that
Was there a big gap between the official and the unofficial times yesterday? They seem reeeaal fast today.
It's combine time so it's a good time for a Bob McGinn article.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/draft-outlook-ik8s730-192799541.html
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/draft-outlook-ik8s730-192799541.html
They actually adjusted Swope to an official 4.34. I just can't comprehend that. Stills official is 4.38. I probably watched 80% of their games, and never saw that kind of speed translate
Read that McGinn piece just now. So awesome the dirt he gets. Eifert thing interesting. Never want the "doesn't love the game" label. and lol at Geno=Akili Smith
Read that McGinn piece just now. So awesome the dirt he gets. Eifert thing interesting. Never want the "doesn't love the game" label. and lol at Geno=Akili Smith
I'm just curious to who's going to get drafted higher as Rutgers alum, Khaseen Greene or Logan Ryan. Ryan has a speed issue, while Greene has trouble getting off blocks. Consensus has Ryan to be the higher, but I think Greene's going to be the better pro, he stood out in a very good defense, while Ryan definetely had some bad games.
Austin played at his speed. Thought the guy was a top 20 pick and still do. I've never seen a guy with that kind of stop start and change of direction. He throttles his speed to set up blocks great vision in space. Love that dude, incredible athlete.
Oh pre-draft I wanted the Rams to grab him at 22 and let Amendola go. Loved him at WVU. But I didn't think he put up the fastest time in the 40. Figured he would kill it in Short Shuttle and 3 cone
Futurevoid
Member
That's great reading.
The Giants have been linked to Dion Jordan in a few rumors running around. DJ Fluker is another one that's been thrown about as being on the radar of Giant scouts as well.
I know the Giants don't generally spend first round picks on linebacker, but I have a tough time believing they let Ogletree go past them at nineteen even with the DUI. The Pats aren't the only team that's capable of controlling supposed "character issues" guys.
I don't see Jordan getting passed the Jets if he gets to them. He's a perfect fit for that system, and they have nothing at OLB/DE. Wilkerson and Coples play on the interior. Whenever I watched Oregon, I didn't see his pass rush ability, rarely saw it, because as the scout said, he was constantly dropping back into coverage. He's got that part down pretty well for a guy his size.
Darryl Talley put it best with regards to Ogletree, if he ever learns to use his hands and take on blocks look out. Don't think it's a positive to compare him to DJ. He can certainly cover though, it's just his ability to take on blocks and shed. He goes around them and it killed UG in the Championship game. Made a big play, but was also running around blocks leading to big run lanes.
Darryl Talley put it best with regards to Ogletree, if he ever learns to use his hands and take on blocks look out. Don't think it's a positive to compare him to DJ. He can certainly cover though, it's just his ability to take on blocks and shed. He goes around them and it killed UG in the Championship game. Made a big play, but was also running around blocks leading to big run lanes.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
I really wanted Warmack for the Giants, but can't play more than one position on the offensive line seems to be a death sentence for that.
Same for the Steelers. Though I don't understand why they do it to be frank. Some of the best offensive lines in the league have 9 to 5ers who don't play other positions. Your o-line is going to suffer when you move them anyway, why bother?
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/dave-hyde-blog/sfl-draft-winds-20130228,0,1988102,full.story
Re-posting here b/c I've seen him mocked to the Bills, too. Lots to like about Patterson. Got better as year went on. Undeniably explosive. But his concentration/effort issues are maddening. Something I do really like is his hand fighting ability. Really natural way of getting space
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5r4aqLD18tU
Re-posting here b/c I've seen him mocked to the Bills, too. Lots to like about Patterson. Got better as year went on. Undeniably explosive. But his concentration/effort issues are maddening. Something I do really like is his hand fighting ability. Really natural way of getting space
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5r4aqLD18tU
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/dave-hyde-blog/sfl-draft-winds-20130228,0,1988102,full.story
Re-posting here b/c I've seen him mocked to the Bills, too. Lots to like about Patterson. Got better as year went on. Undeniably explosive. But his concentration/effort issues are maddening. Something I do really like is his hand fighting ability. Really natural way of getting space
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5r4aqLD18tU
Great read.
Great read.
What is wishlist for BUF? Seem like a pivot team in the draft. They pass on a QB, then everything slides up
BlackGhost
Banned
For some reason I never noticed this thread before, I welcome this into my life
Edit: also in the main thread you people made it seem like LJ was dead/banned smh
Edit: also in the main thread you people made it seem like LJ was dead/banned smh
What is wishlist for BUF? Seem like a pivot team in the draft. They pass on a QB, then everything slides up
A team that doesn't suck.
Too many holes. Doesn't matter what I want, it's what the teams needs. DE/OLB, LB, WR, CB, G/T because Levitre is gone, S, are all legitimate needs along with the obvious.
Edit: BPA or build around your only star player and shore up the OL.
A team that doesn't suck.
Too many holes. Doesn't matter what I want, it's what the teams needs. DE/OLB, LB, WR, CB, G/T because Levitre is gone, S, are all legitimate needs along with the obvious.
Edit: BPA or build around your only star player and shore up the OL.
Reading that piece on Patterson, it mentioned that Stevie was academically ineligible for D1, and had to go the JUCO route. Did that affect his ability to contribute right away? Has he had trouble learning the offense?
DeaconKnowledge
Member
A team that doesn't suck.
Too many holes. Doesn't matter what I want, it's what the teams needs. DE/OLB, LB, WR, CB, G/T because Levitre is gone, S, are all legitimate needs along with the obvious.
Edit: BPA or build around your only star player and shore up the OL.
What do you think about that d-line?