ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
I quickly saw a picture of him like that somewhere else and thought, "a black dentist kills endangered lions?"
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
American hunter illegally killed Cecil the Lion
- Thread starter Jag
- Start date
- Status
I quickly saw a picture of him like that somewhere else and thought, "a black dentist kills endangered lions?"
SmackAttack
Member
Guess I missed that part. Ugh, that's heartbreaking
diffusionx
Gold Member
I don't believe this for a second. I think this guy knew exactly what he was doing. When you bait a lion out of a protected reserve to a place where you can shoot it, that is acting in bad faith no matter who you paid or hired. You might as well blame the lion for not realizing where the reserve ended.
It's also Zimbabwe, which is a failed state. The fact that Mugabe's government is tasked with protecting these animals from poachers and rich Westerners is very sad.
I feel fine. I ain't the one that's mad in here.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
So you truly believe he had no idea anything was amiss?
NoblesseOblige
Banned
It shouldn't be vilified by default. There have been legitimate reasons for the granting of a hunter's license for an endangered species. Last year someone paid over $350,000 to hunt a black rhino. But it was under the pretense that he could only hunt one very specific rhino. An old rhino that could no longer reproduce, and was overly aggressive to others. Also all that money went back into conservation efforts and they'd have had to put the rhino down regardless of whether it were a hunter or conservation agent.
I don't actually know for sure. But neither do you. What we do know, is that all of these things that were done illegally or did not happen were the responsibility of the business conducting the hunt, not the clients of that business.
It started on our good friend Honest Trymore Ndlovu's land! What more due diligence do you need?
Guess I missed that part. Ugh, that's heartbreaking
I don't know shit about preservation and crap
can we not swoop in and save those cubs from getting killed by other lions? will it take a lot of money to shoot anything that moves with a tranquilizer and get them safely?
I'm not mad, I just find it sad and pathetic that anyone could post something so ignorant and unintelligent.
It cant have been legal because he killed a lion that was not legal to kill.
At least my posts make sense. Not ragelording and calling for people to get killed or imprisoned for life for shooting an animal.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Its the natural order of things, another male will take over his pride kill the young and have his own children. Nothing can be done about this.
There's lots that can be done. The question is, will anyone?
It's a protected species, you'd think they'd try to at least move them to a new home.
I have no reason to believe that he did anything wrong, nor the other hunters who were with them. They were on a guided hunt. Unless there was a big sign that says NOW ENTERING _______ STATE PARK DO NOT HUNT UNDER PENALTY etc. I have no reason to suspect that they knew something was amiss.
I'm guessing he never entered the preserve
Having met and talked with people who go on these African hunts, I believe that he had no idea something was amiss.
These guys aren't hunters, they are trigger men. They sit in a blind, or on a bluff, or in a tree and wait for the animal to be lured/chased/coralled into a kill box then they pull a trigger.
He paid $55k for a lion to a licensed professional hunting agency with international credentials and let them do all the work.
He's a rich privileged white guy, why do we all of a sudden expect he did his own due diligence?
Having met and talked with people who go on these African hunts, I believe that he had no idea something was amiss.
These guys aren't hunters, they are trigger men. They sit in a blind, or on a bluff, or in a tree and wait for the animal to be lured/chased/coralled into a kill box then they pull a trigger.
He paid $55k for a lion to a licensed professional hunting agency with international credentials and let them do all the work.
He's a rich privileged white guy, why do we all of a sudden expect he did his own due diligence?
Well, in a country known for its rampant illegal poaching, I guess it sounds legit and I sure won't question a thing after paying $55,000 in cash. I'm gonna go take a nap in the car while you guys do your thing.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
You truly don't think he knew where he was?
SmackAttack
Member
I don't know much about it myself, honestly, but I'm told there's nothing that can be done more often than not.
Why do you think he was on the protected land? I haven't read anyone else claim that.
Apparently you'd be surprised.
I think your leading the charge on stupidity here, people get emotional and say dumb shit, what is your excuse? Life in prison sounds about right, to see something as beautiful as a lion in the wild and want to kill it and watch it suffer is about on the same level of seeing a child and wanting to molest it. I'm not even saying its his fault but when your this bent inside we really don't need you walking around free.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
It's in the second paragraph of the article posted in the OP.
They could take them to a zoo, but that is no solution. Just a very slim chance these cubs will ever grow up to be normal lions. More human interference will not help.
That the lion was lured out the preserve doesn't necessarily mean whoever did the luring was in the preserve.
I'd be surprised by the complete ignorance of the entitled? Nope, not really. I know not all of them are complete, abject sociopaths. Some of them are just plain ignorant.
Which is why I hope they still nail this guy to the wall, even if it proves he's merely incompetent and too trusting. Ignorance should no longer be an excuse when it comes to cases like this. You have the power, you have the money, and you will also share in the blame if the guys you paid off happened to be pieces of shit.
So maybe, just maybe, do your homework and be more active in these "hunts". With great reward comes great risk.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
I think I'll just agree to disagree at this point.
LiquidSword
Member
Is it ethical though to interfere with animals like that? I don't think so. Prime directive and so on. Same with nature documentarians, even if it is a little baby you don't interfere with the natural order of things.
eudaemonic
Member
I think this starts falling under debates about the ethics of eating animals and that's not something I feel like going into in this thread (or generally online).
nailbombxx
Member
Yes, there are exceptions, like when putting your dog to sleep is the right thing to do. But in the case of Cecil the Lion I doubt that he thought he was contributing to some cause, even if he allegedly didn't know he would be poaching the lion.
mhayes86
Member
Geez. Looks like all of the reviews were deleted, but everyone's coming back for more.
The dentist didn't pay anyone off. They hired a professional hunting & safari operation that had been in operation since 1992 and was licensed by the countries gaming authority.
Zimbabwe is charging that this outfit conspired with the landowner to poach a lion. At this time Zimbabwe is not claiming the hunter did anything wrong.
He followed appropriate protocol and depended on licensed professionals to do their job professionally and legally. It appears they did not and as such they have been arrested.
I personally would rather see them in a zoo where they have a chance at half a life rather than be killed off by a jealous male and be destroyed completely. I can't imagine they're better off dead than alive?
We do it all the time - I don't see how ethics comes in when we're talking about saving an already endangered animal from extinction, even if they themselves may not ever breed.
I think it's ballpark, maybe a little on the high end but not egregiously so. A lot depends on the season, cost of permitting, etc. First google hit shows $20-40k for some African Lodge Hunt outfit.
Robot Pants
Member
Didn't it say the lion was lured out of the park? Lol
And had a gps collar?
Lol
I get the feeling he knew what he was doing
Not that he's ever done anything like that before!
The thing you have to realize is everyone involved knows this is completely wrong. He is exactly paying people off. He is paying the officials of Zimbabwe to make it legal so he can come do this. Every person that does this is part of it, that is why they pay 55K plus another huge chunk of change while they are in the country. They just keep pumping money in to people that are desperate and they get what they want.
When he took it upon himself to finance a hunting expedition and personally pull the trigger?
His money, his operation, his kill, his actions, his responsibility.
It varies between article to article but I read at least one say that only 6 of those cubs are his and will get killed by the other male.Guess I missed that part. Ugh, that's heartbreaking
While still awful and saddening 6 is better than 24.
This article outright names Palmer as helping tie the dead animal to the back of their vehicle which would seem to imply he knew they were luring a lion out of the park.
http://www.lionconservation.org/lion-collars.html
I was curious and looking up the tracking collars they use and they would probably resemble one of these.
Cecil probably would've had a vhf collar which you need a fieldworker to track down to record data whereas a gps collar just sends data to a server and would've automatically send a email when the lion stops moving.
Its not jealousy its survival, in order for the species to survive cubs need protection. Lions are not people they don't adopt. Its harsh but the sooner these cubs are dead they sooner the females will be ready to mate and create cubs with a protector that have the best chance to survive. They might get lucky the females will care for them as long as they can, I think its two years before males are pushed out of a pride.
Jag
Member
Life in prison and death are certainly extreme. But already rehabilitated? GAF needs a :rolleyes icon.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked