Just a friendly reminder that lions are awesome... and also a threatened species on the decline.
So effing gorgeous.
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American hunter illegally killed Cecil the Lion
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So effing gorgeous.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Are we only allowed to care if we had pre-existing knowledge of the lion?
"For me it is weird. I feel people will go out screaming at other humans who kill animals but don't put the same effort toward war. In fact some people find killing humans as long as it done by humans acceptable.
I find such human beings as hypocrites.
blitzcloud
Banned
That's not the case on all instances though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i0OSGB-baI
Lions do charge at people many times. Anecdotal evidence of lions who might have had their prey shortly before do not constitute fact.
However, that anecdotal evidence is probably being used by hunters to hunt them when they aren't being aggressive.
old manatee
Banned
blitzcloud
Banned
That pretty much sums up what hunting is about. Kill an unsuspecting animal, pose him ferociously.
GoldenEye 007
Member
Nothing to do with being cynical. Just realistic. This will fall out of the headlines soon, the hashtag will lose popularity, and people will forget.
Sure a handful might care enough beyond awareness that poaching is bad, but ultimately it'll be up to the various African governments to step in and continue dealing with it.
Uh, there's a very long history of war protests worldwide.
If anything, there are fewer people and less efforts put into protecting animals or crying foul over poaching, which is why poaching continues to exist and so many species are endangered or extinct.
HawksWinStanley
Member
It's definitely a weird line and I've definitely walked it more than a few times.
Part of it is the sense of wanting to stand up for something that doesn't have a fighting chance or fully understands what's happening. It's the same reason when you see something sad happen to someone like a cancer diagnosis or disability, but when those things happen to a kid it just breaks your fucken heart all the more because of that protective instinct which some people just don't have.
The other part of it is people just genuinely have a soft spot for animals. Especially when it's a known animal to which people have an emotional attachment. In this case it's a lion that the locals and visitors favored and was a star attraction to the tours. Now nobody will ever get to enjoy that again which is enough of a bummer already, but the reason why we won't get to see it again is what angers people.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
I don't like when humans or animals are needlessly killed.
Can we get back to the lion now?
Your argument is basically - Humans get killed all the time so we should not have an emotional attachment or response when it comes to animals. Humans have plenty of support and voice. Animals could seriously do with more strong voices advocating protection. Basically this.
Ever think that people can have empathy for something they're not familiar with? It's not a hard concept to grasp.
And any time there's a thread about something terrible happening to an animal, logic-impaired posters trot out this notion of "Buh buh where's all the outrage when people are killed?" Apparently people can't be outraged at both human and animal suffering at the same time.
victreeb3l
Member
Damn, that was powerful.
Triggerhappytel
Member
"This is just a case of hunting gone wrong". Do you think he wasn't paying attention when they coaxed the lion off the reserve by dragging a carcass behind their car? Maybe he thought this was part of the legal process? Maybe his cruel guides forced him into hunting this lion specifically, and he didn't know that the collar meant it was protected and tracked! Poor guy doesn't deserve any of this.
Sure I just feel there are people out there who don't.
Michael Vick ran a dog fighting ring and got four years. Another football player ran over a man and got three weeks. Three weeks! Are we really that less valuable that a human life is only worth three weeks of jail time.
Also glorifying war is absurd. Why are we celebrating the hunting of humans?
PeskyToaster
Member
I think most people apply a different set of morals in regards to humans vs. animals. It's okay to put down animals who are suffering but most rightfully balk at putting down humans in similar circumstances.
Nice of him to pick up this story. More people need to shame this practice and this dentist.
Sure there are people who don't care about humans who die, there are people who don't care about animals that die, and there are people who don't care about either one. But why does that matter in a thread with people expressing outrage over this latest example of poaching? Posters here don't need to preface their anger with "Disclaimer: I am also opposed to senselessly killing human beings too."
Having lived in a war zone in high school I can understand that sentiment but people still support military actions that kill kids that never had a fighting chance. It's what get me riled up. People look at humans and say "well they made a choice". No they didn't a few people made choices which harm major populations and kids.
I don't kill anything but seeing someone get so passionate about animal deaths while supporting a war is bizarre.
And what does any of that have to do with this thread?
Unless you can prove specific people in here are hypocrites you are going off the rails. Many people in this thread care that an animal was poached, whether or not they also care when a human is killed is off topic.
No I was answering the original question of why are some people are not emotionally attached to animals. I don't hunt or anything. I just find the emotional attachment very weird.
I don't know if this is really Cecil but this video of a lion lying down in his last moments is heartbreaking.
The looks he gave was almost like him being used to the company of human being and is baffled by what they are doing around him after he got shot by something. And then resigning to his fate eventually .
The looks he gave was almost like him being used to the company of human being and is baffled by what they are doing around him after he got shot by something. And then resigning to his fate eventually .
evilromero
Member
You're still putting forward the same tired argument of "well if they do A then why aren't they doing B?" You do see where you're falling short, correct?
I have seen literally no one in here oppose animal death and also support war. I don't really know where you're going with this.
MilkyJoe
Member
I don't know any lions by first name, but I care when they are murdered for sport.
tearsintherain
Member
Umm thats a video a tourist took of Cecil while he was visiting the Hwanga park, it is not a video of his death or anything like that. Its the same lion, but again taken by a tourist a few days before he got killed by the asshole dentist. The red stains around his mouth are presumably from feeding, not being shot.
I do find it encouraging that local Africans seem to be up in arms about this issue as well, if many see local wildlife as treasures to be saved (for whatever reasons) their governments will be more inclined to go after foreign tourists who try to bribe their way in and out.
squarerootofpie
Neo Member
So everyone here who is upset over the death of an endangered species, because the person killed it for fun and will get away with it... all support war? Come on man. The two are not mutually exclusive, and making the assumption that any of the people upset by this don't give a crap about what their governments do is just such a ridiculous stretch.
It's like all the people who say "oh, so you donate to the red cross and protested against your government going to war? WHY DON'T YOU CARE ABOUT THE ASPINALL FOUNDATION HUH? And what about cancer? Huh? And pandas, and gaza and...". It's complete and utter derailment of an important topic, and ridiculous to expect that everyone has to be a perfect human being to care.
Jesus.
Bwahahahaha.....really? Yes, you are wrong. They knew exactly where they were. The professional hunter, Theo Bronchorst (owner of Bushmen Safaris), has been organizing these hunts for the last 24 years. Don't tell me he got lost, while he was standing in front of the Hwange National Park. The fact they needed to lure the lion out of the park says enough.
The lion population is threatened. As humans continue to dominate the plant, once a big game species becomes extinct, that's it. New life isn't going to emerge to replace it. it's going to be nigh impossible for biodiversity above the rodent level to emerge, as evolutionary timescales are too big for that, and humans will not go unchecked for that long.
Basically, every trophy hunter that does this is turning the earth into a wasteland biodiversically (is that even a word?), actively and directly.
"That's a beautiful arrangement of life you have there, Earth. It would be a shame if something happened to it." -Humanity. Sure, we pollute, destroy habitats, and displace countless species. But these are mostly secondary or tertiary effects. Killing animals just because we want to, now it doesn't get any more blunt than that in showing how depraved and damaging we can be. It's a holocaust of nature, an extermination that is slowly but surely rendering the planet uninhabited by anything but humans, their livestock and pets, and microbials. And that's a damn tragedy.
It happened to the dodo, buffalo, passenger pigeon and countless others. It's happening to many species of whale, wolf, tiger, lion, elephant, rhino, hippo, and countless others right now
evilromero
Member
You'd fit right in behind a Fox News desk.
AstroNut325
Member
I hope the "hunter" gets some well deserved punishment.
But the overall reaction from the Internet is odd. I'm sure most of the people angry at this event have meat in every meal. Yes, the slaughter of animals for sustenance is different than the "hunting" the dentist did. But the end result requires the death of animals in both situations. I already limit myself to 2-3 non-vegetarian meals a week. I hope more follow suit.
But the overall reaction from the Internet is odd. I'm sure most of the people angry at this event have meat in every meal. Yes, the slaughter of animals for sustenance is different than the "hunting" the dentist did. But the end result requires the death of animals in both situations. I already limit myself to 2-3 non-vegetarian meals a week. I hope more follow suit.
Well, did that polar bear have a name? Had you ever heard of this polar bear?
No one said animal lovers support war. Someone ask why some of us don't feel empathy and I answered.
Not supporting war and voting for the green party would make me a bad fit.
Same. I can understand outrage but not internet mobs. Making false reviews on someone's business is wrong.
The distinction is so huge it doesn't even warrant calling out.
Shamrock7r
Member
You acknowledge the difference bewtween hunting for sport and killing for food, but still use the example? That doesn't make sense.
I think another major factor, at least, this is how I have felt over the past few years, is the want to preserve these species, like what is going on with the Rhino. The hunting of these animals with a very limited population is, in my opinion, unacceptable. The animals that are commonly consumed for food in the majority of the world aren't endangered.
I mean, you said it so I don't have to. There's a debate to be had about the ethics of eating meat, as well as the treatment of animals meant to be slaughtered, but they are separate issues from poaching, and not especially relevant to this specific incident. All these attempted derails with "Issue A exists, so why get upset over Issue B" are getting a little silly.
DeathoftheEndless
Crashing this plane... with no survivors!
Its silly to compare killing a human and killing an animal. And if you read my earlier posts in the thread, you'll see that I hope the poacher is given jail time.
Trial begins for the professional hunter and farm owner.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-03/27/c_134100803.htm
Hadn't seen this before.
I don't know how the court system in Zimbabwe courts work or if they have any issues with corruption but 4 months ago this same judge sentenced a poacher to 10 years in jail for possession of raw ivory.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-03/27/c_134100803.htm
I've been going to my dentist for 12 years-if he was using payment to go kill polar bears, I'd like to know so I can stop funding that.
You read it wrong. They said the guide and the hunter used bait to lure the lion out of the protected park to be able to hunt it. They knew the lion was win the protected area so they purposely tried to bait it to leave its protected area in which the lions are there for safety and scientific research so they could kill it.
This is point blank addressed in nearly every article.
It is illegal to bait animals in protected national park to leave the area to be able to hunt it. Which they did.
From the article:
Luring animals out of national parks with bait is ILLEGAL. Sadly I doubt you will reply to this since it destroys your entire argument.
The hunter may have been oblivious the lion was famous but there is no chance in hell he could have been oblivious they were baiting the lion to lure out of the protected zone seeing how he was there and the one doing it with the trackers.
Notice in his letter he denied knowing the lion was famous but didn't say a word about not realizing they were luring it out of a national park.
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