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American hunter illegally killed Cecil the Lion

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Not open for further replies.
W

waypoetic

Banned
Got into a vegan-friend's Facebook post about this and "why are some animals more important than others to you meat eaters?" IE that meat eaters who are enraged by the killing of the lion but not about farm animals etc. There's too many emotional arguments so i couldn't be bothered to keep on arguing with those people..
 
P

pgtl_10

Member
Dalek said:
I've been going to my dentist for 12 years-if he was using payment to go kill polar bears, I'd like to know so I can stop funding that.
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Okay but going to Yelp and screaming and giving him one stars hurts people who actually rely on reviews for services. I hate that. Also hoping his business fails makes no sense. After he gets punished for poaching, I want the offender to rehabilitate his life. Punishing someone forever doesn't benefit society.
 
J

Joe

Member
This is a comment in a Reddit thread. Not sure of its validity but it seems to be fairly logical

I have a friend who works in cheetah conservation in Namibia and is understandably really upset about this... but optimistic because she hopes that it'll teach a few people more about how poaching works in Africa.

A few points from her on this:

  • Bow hunting is basically the choice these days by poachers in her neck of the woods in Africa because a gunshot can be heard from much further away, but a bow is silent. So while the American guy's defense will be "I had a permit, I assumed everything was done correctly!", well that makes little sense. He likely knew what was up, but how they had to be quiet about it.
  • Killing lions like this in Africa is doubly bad because while there are always excess males due to pride structure, hunters always want the best specimens. As such, weaker male lions get to mate who otherwise wouldn't (as the best ones/ their offspring are killed), overall diluting the gene pool.
  • The reason it took 40 hours to kill Cecil is because after they shot him it was a bit late, so they went to bed to go track him further in the morning, leaving the animal in pain. Disgusting people.
  • Finally, I feel obliged to mention that there is a lot of good hunting in Africa one can do that really helps the locals and that they love. There are literally millions of antelope in Africa that are not endangered, and you can't carry the meat over borders, so bonus for the local villages where they can't afford meat and it gets donated! So you have to be fairly fucked up to decide you want an endangered species instead.
Click to expand...
 
C

Cheebo

Banned
pgtl_10 said:
Okay but going to Yelp and screaming and giving him one stars hurts people who actually rely on reviews for services. I hate that. Also hoping his business fails makes no sense. After he gets punished for poaching, I want the offender to rehabilitate his life. Punishing someone forever doesn't benefit society.
Click to expand...

I highly doubt there is a single person who would still want to go there and would be looking for legitimate reviews on him at this point. He has made literally ALL of the national news outlets and called out for his actions. He isn't being tared and feathered on just GAF. It is literally the entire media.

It's not like it matters, there is no chance his dentistry survives this. His career is done.

This will be the top google search whenever looking anything up on him likely for the rest of his life.
 
W

witness

Member
Fuck this guy, this makes me so so angry. Leave these fucking creatures alone, and learn a new way to stroke your shitty ego.
 
U

Unbounded

Member
I wonder how all of the posts calling for this person's death, to have them thrown in a cage with a lion, have their life destroyed etc will look back on this event in about a year when the anger has subsided, or if the worst-case scenario actually does happen.
 
N

Nafai1123

Banned
pgtl_10 said:
Okay but going to Yelp and screaming and giving him one stars hurts people who actually rely on reviews for services. I hate that. Also hoping his business fails makes no sense. After he gets punished for poaching, I want the offender to rehabilitate his life. Punishing someone forever doesn't benefit society.
Click to expand...

You think he's going to get punished for poaching? He didn't even get punished for poaching in the US.
 
C

Cheebo

Banned
CLGIcuXWsAU1tPB.jpg
 
Christopher

Christopher

Member
This safari shit for the wealthy is beyond fucking lame.

Why is this allowed? I can't not stand killing animals who aren't provoking you or a risk to your life...

For fucking sport!?! God damn man
 
G

GoldenEye 007

Member
Christopher said:
This safari shit for the wealthy is beyond fucking lame.

Why is this allowed? I can't not stand killing animals who aren't provoking you or a risk to your life...

For fucking sport!?! God damn man
Click to expand...
I think safaris themselves are fine.

The hunting part obviously has issues. But why? I'd think given the fact participants are generally wealthy, it's not hard to imagine there is incentive to cater to them. I'm sure in part, local economies in Africa are happy to get those funds for facilitating hunts like these.
 
F

FStop7

Banned
Christopher said:
This safari shit for the wealthy is beyond fucking lame.

Why is this allowed? I can't not stand killing animals who aren't provoking you or a risk to your life...

For fucking sport!?! God damn man
Click to expand...

If it's done correctly, it actually does help conservation efforts. It's a legitimate aspect of wildlife management. I was very doubtful at first, but the more I read about it I came to understand it a bit better. There are still some aspects I'm skeptical of because I think it takes a very optimistic and sometimes intentionally naive perspective on just how significant the benefits are and that the potential for manipulation or abuse is greater than claimed, but still.

What happened in this case was a complete farce and probably will probably end up damaging legitimate conservation efforts.
 
G

Gr1mLock

Passing metallic gas
Unbounded said:
I wonder how all of the posts calling for this person's death, to have them thrown in a cage with a lion, have their life destroyed etc will look back on this event in about a year when the anger has subsided, or if the worst-case scenario actually does happen.
Click to expand...

While I'm not a fan of the 'this guy's an asshole and therefore hunting and all hunters are assholes' argument, this dude really is a huge asshole. He's literally the stereotype to the letter. Seeing how he shut his practice down I'd say mob justice kind of did its thing. It definitely hurt his livelihood.
 
C

Cheebo

Banned
Gr1mLock said:
While I'm not a fan of the 'this guy's an asshole and therefore hunting and all hunters are assholes' argument, this dude really is a huge asshole. He's literally the stereotype to the letter. Seeing how he shut his practice down I'd say mob justice kind of did its thing. It definitely hurt his livelihood.
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Lets not forget he has a history of sexual harassment as well.
 
D

DiipuSurotu

Banned
dorkkaos said:
I remember there was a video floating around of a guy who bought a mouse from petsmart just to taser it. The mouse was seen dying to repeated (2-3?) taser shots. There was a huge backlash against the guy. So yeah, people do care.
Click to expand...

A mouse, yeah. That post was about a fish though. There are even so-called "vegetarians" who eat fish because somehow they make a difference between fish and other animals, lol.
 
Quote

Quote

Member
pgtl_10 said:
Okay but going to Yelp and screaming and giving him one stars hurts people who actually rely on reviews for services. I hate that. Also hoping his business fails makes no sense. After he gets punished for poaching, I want the offender to rehabilitate his life. Punishing someone forever doesn't benefit society.
Click to expand...
Illegal poacher's livelihood shouldn't be up for debate? Um okay.
 
D

darscot

Member
FStop7 said:
If it's done correctly, it actually does help conservation efforts. It's a legitimate aspect of wildlife management. I was very doubtful at first, but the more I read about it I came to understand it a bit better. There are still some aspects I'm skeptical of because I think it takes a very optimistic and sometimes intentionally naive perspective on just how significant the benefits are and that the potential for manipulation or abuse is greater than claimed, but still.

What happened in this case was a complete farce and probably will probably end up damaging legitimate conservation efforts.
Click to expand...

I don't know how truthful this really is, I just got back from Kenya and all hunting is illegal and the wildlife was incredible, balanced and thriving. Everything I saw there made it very obvious that the best thing for these animals is to just let them balance themselves out. Kenya seems to have figured out that they can pull a a shitload more revenue charging people slightly less to hunt and photograph an animal but doing it 52 times a years instead of once to kill it. We "hunted" a collared Lion and it was an incredible experience and we never even got a look at it. Just tracking it and chasing as it moved through the bush, it crossed a river into another property and we lost it. It was worth every penny. These hunt kill safaris are just about dead and hopefully the massive media attention this gets can be a final nail in the coffin.
 
A

Agent Gibbs

Member
Joe said:
This is a comment in a Reddit thread.

I have a friend who works in cheetah conservation in Namibia and is understandably really upset about this... but optimistic because she hopes that it'll teach a few people more about how poaching works in Africa.

A few points from her on this:

Bow hunting is basically the choice these days by poachers in her neck of the woods in Africa because a gunshot can be heard from much further away, but a bow is silent. So while the American guy's defense will be "I had a permit, I assumed everything was done correctly!", well that makes little sense. He likely knew what was up, but how they had to be quiet about it.
Killing lions like this in Africa is doubly bad because while there are always excess males due to pride structure, hunters always want the best specimens. As such, weaker male lions get to mate who otherwise wouldn't (as the best ones/ their offspring are killed), overall diluting the gene pool.
The reason it took 40 hours to kill Cecil is because after they shot him it was a bit late, so they went to bed to go track him further in the morning, leaving the animal in pain. Disgusting people.
Finally, I feel obliged to mention that there is a lot of good hunting in Africa one can do that really helps the locals and that they love. There are literally millions of antelope in Africa that are not endangered, and you can't carry the meat over borders, so bonus for the local villages where they can't afford meat and it gets donated! So you have to be fairly fucked up to decide you want an endangered species instead.
Click to expand...

Not sure of its validity but it seems to be fairly logical
Click to expand...

MJPIA said:
Trial begins for the professional hunter and farm owner.

Hadn't seen this before.

I don't know how the court system in Zimbabwe courts work or if they have any issues with corruption but 4 months ago this same judge sentenced a poacher to 10 years in jail for possession of raw ivory.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-03/27/c_134100803.htm
http://www.zimeye.com/mugabe-farmer-...ecil-the-lion/

Sources told ZimEye.com the Bronkhurst intended to do a “quota transfer” where Cecil would have been recorded as shot in another area which had a quota and permit. But Cecil’s satellite detectable collar exposed him ( although Bronkhurst apparently tried to destroy the collar and all evidence of the dead Cecil).

“Had Cecil not been collared, Bronkhurst probably would have got away with this crime, and I very much doubt this is the first dodgy episode in his hunting career.

“Lets hope that corruption does not prevail and the full force of the law falls on both these characters.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...



Wait so new info is that, it took 40 hours because they went to bloody bed because it was LATE?
they had no permits but planned to do a quota transfer by claiming the animal was killed in another area (EXACTLY like the bear kill in 2008) but when they finally got round to finishing Cecil off (who i'm guessing could have survived if found before the lazy poachers) and found the GPS their plan unraveled

Well i'm utterly convinced he knew exactly what was going on now, so it seems like my conjecture a few posts back that they always planned to illegally bait and kill any lion was correct, but he fled after the GPS was found and it was realised they couldn't scam the system

Utter pond life, hope he is extradited for legal punnishment
 
A

AMUSIX

Member
FStop7 said:
If it's done correctly, it actually does help conservation efforts. It's a legitimate aspect of wildlife management. I was very doubtful at first, but the more I read about it I came to understand it a bit better. There are still some aspects I'm skeptical of because I think it takes a very optimistic and sometimes intentionally naive perspective on just how significant the benefits are and that the potential for manipulation or abuse is greater than claimed, but still.

What happened in this case was a complete farce and probably will probably end up damaging legitimate conservation efforts.
Click to expand...

This is complete, 100% bullshit.

Rarely (VERY rarely) there are instances when a single animal needs to be culled, or when the choice is either to cull part of a herd getting to big for the preservation park or to let them out where poachers will just kill the entire herd. But these instances are not common enough to support any sort of hunting tourism. This is something that every conservation group agrees is best handled by park management or wildlife preservation organizations.

The most common argument is that the money paid to hunt these animals goes, in some part, towards conservation. First, that percentage is unknown, because, for all their talk of being in support of conservation, non of these hunting organizations will say how much of each $50k kill goes back into preserving the animals. But the biggest thing is that hunting tourism only brings in a few million each year, total, while non-lethal tourism (photo-safaris and the like) bring in billions. So, really, hunting does fuck-all for wildlife preservation.
 
Lamel

Lamel

Banned
Like, it's not even a hunt. You simply lured an animal with the help of other people and shot it. If you want to hunt then go out on foot and try to kill it, see what happens. I really don't understand how this man found joy in any of this. God damn.
 
T

Tigress

Member
Unbounded said:
I wonder how all of the posts calling for this person's death, to have them thrown in a cage with a lion, have their life destroyed etc will look back on this event in about a year when the anger has subsided, or if the worst-case scenario actually does happen.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I won't care. Killing an endangered species is one of the worst things you can do imho. Extinction is forever and all that. I can understand the hunts where the animal is actually causing harm and it raises money, this wasn't that (and honestly I'm still iffy on if that really is the case but you can't even claim that was what happened here). This was a selfish asshole who just wanted a trophy (he took only the head) who didn't care he was helping contribute to an animal going extinct. I don't buy that he didn't know what he was doing, he has been caught illegally hunting before.

He couldn't even truly hunt the lion, he pretty much had a "canned hunt" there, he just wanted the trophy.

Fuck him. If his life is ruined, I'm not going to cry for him. In a way I'm glad he had the misfortune of picking a famous one to kill so that this really bites him in the ass (Cause we know if it wasn't a famous one no one would hear about it). As some one pointed out, he claimed he didn't know the lion was famous, not that it was illegal (He's not sorry he killed the lion, he's sorry he picked one that got more attention). And this isn't the first time he's been caught doing shit like this. And I gotta wonder how much more shit he does like this when he's been caught several times (how many times did he not get caught?).

I'm just sad he didn't get caught by ZImbabwe honestly and he'll probably just get fined over here (slap in the wrist). WHich hopefully won't be a slap in the wrist anymore when his source of income goes away cause people no longer want to use him as a dentist.
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Member
AMUSIX said:
This is complete, 100% bullshit.

Rarely (VERY rarely) there are instances when a single animal needs to be culled, or when the choice is either to cull part of a herd getting to big for the preservation park or to let them out where poachers will just kill the entire herd. But these instances are not common enough to support any sort of hunting tourism. This is something that every conservation group agrees is best handled by park management or wildlife preservation organizations.

The most common argument is that the money paid to hunt these animals goes, in some part, towards conservation. First, that percentage is unknown, because, for all their talk of being in support of conservation, non of these hunting organizations will say how much of each $50k kill goes back into preserving the animals. But the biggest thing is that hunting tourism only brings in a few million each year, total, while non-lethal tourism (photo-safaris and the like) bring in billions. So, really, hunting does fuck-all for wildlife preservation.
Click to expand...

thank you for this post.
 
D

DarthWoo

I'm glad Grandpa porked a Chinese Muslim
I might be ok with this kind of hunting...if they were forced to go in with only as many extra weapons as their prey would otherwise have. Then their estates could be donated to conservation efforts if their hunt goes poorly.
 
O

Ollie Pooch

In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Lamel said:
Like, it's not even a hunt. You simply lured an animal with the help of other people and shot it. If you want to hunt then go out on foot and try to kill it, see what happens. I really don't understand how this man found joy in any of this. God damn.
Click to expand...
He basically paid 55 grand to take a lions head and as a result endanger dozens of young lions in the process. Giving no fucks about the consequences nor any respect to the animal(s) he's killed. Pure ego stroking macho bullshit. There's something seriously wrong with the guy - I'm glad his life and reputation get dragged, people like him need to be exposed.
 
S

Slurmer

Banned
Cheebo said:
You read it wrong. They said the guide and the hunter used bait to lure the lion out of the protected park to be able to hunt it. They knew the lion was win the protected area so they purposely tried to bait it to leave its protected area in which the lions are there for safety and scientific research so they could kill it.

This is point blank addressed in nearly every article.

It is illegal to bait animals in protected national park to leave the area to be able to hunt it. Which they did.


From the article:


Luring animals out of national parks with bait is ILLEGAL. Sadly I doubt you will reply to this since it destroys your entire argument.


The hunter may have been oblivious the lion was famous but there is no chance in hell he could have been oblivious they were baiting the lion to lure out of the protected zone seeing how he was there and the one doing it with the trackers.

Notice in his letter he denied knowing the lion was famous but didn't say a word about not realizing they were luring it out of a national park.
Click to expand...

I'm actually really happy you posted this, because I was not aware of this when only hearing parts of the story while at the office today. I had expressed some sympathy to the guy, thinking he had been shouldered with all of the blame for something that he was an unknowing participant in. My opinion has changed after seeing this.
 
C

Cheebo

Banned
Slurmer said:
I'm actually really happy you posted this, because I was not aware of this when only hearing parts of the story while at the office today. I had expressed some sympathy to the guy, thinking he had been shouldered with all of the blame for something that he was an unknowing participant in. My opinion has changed after seeing this.
Click to expand...
Yeah focusing on the lion being famous is odd. The focus should be they lured a lion out of a national park to hunt it. You can't be oblivious to think everything is perfectly legal if you have to lure prey out of a national park. Even a kid knows you can't fuck around with things and m even a kid knows you can't fuck around with animals in a national park. Tricking the animal to come out of the park does not make it suddenly legal . This is why the guides were arrested.

He was with them when they lured it out of the park. There is no way he couldn't realize why they would have to lure it out of the park.

Even if he didn't know it was famous, he knew they are tricking a animal to leave a national park. And it doesn't take a hunter to know you can't kill animals from a national Park .
 
D

Dalek

Member
Cheebo said:
Yeah focusing on the lion being famous is odd. The focus should be they lured a lion out of a national park to hunt it. You can't be oblivious to think everything is perfectly legal if you have to lure prey out of a national park. You've been a kid knows you can't fuck around with things and m even a kid knows you can't fuck around with animals in a national park. Tricking the animal to come out of the park does not make it suddenly legal . This is why the guides were arrested.

He was with them when they lured it out of the park. There is no way he couldn't realize why they would have to lure it out of the park.

Even if he didn't know it was famous, he knew they are tricking a animal to leave a national park. And it doesn't take a hunter to know you can't kill animals from a national Park .
Click to expand...

and additionally, to pretend that he wasn't aware that shenanigans were going on is just stupid. There's a reason he paid this crazy price tag and snuck around with these people in the middle of the night.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
pgtl_10 said:
Okay but going to Yelp and screaming and giving him one stars hurts people who actually rely on reviews for services. I hate that. Also hoping his business fails makes no sense. After he gets punished for poaching, I want the offender to rehabilitate his life. Punishing someone forever doesn't benefit society.
Click to expand...
Fuck the dude and his business. Im glad his life is fucked and Im also glad that people now do not go to a business where the owner kills endangered species. Why are you worried about him? He has made a living out of killing majestic animals, beheading them and using their skins as rugs. If you want to rehabilitate the asshole, why don't you send your all your tax dollars to rehabilitate him? Don't drag the rest of us along. I'm not going to send a single penny towards this human filth for his "rehabilitation", which can start by him adopting the lion's cubs.
 
O

onadesertedisland

Member
AMUSIX said:
This is complete, 100% bullshit.

Rarely (VERY rarely) there are instances when a single animal needs to be culled, or when the choice is either to cull part of a herd getting to big for the preservation park or to let them out where poachers will just kill the entire herd. But these instances are not common enough to support any sort of hunting tourism. This is something that every conservation group agrees is best handled by park management or wildlife preservation organizations.

The most common argument is that the money paid to hunt these animals goes, in some part, towards conservation. First, that percentage is unknown, because, for all their talk of being in support of conservation, non of these hunting organizations will say how much of each $50k kill goes back into preserving the animals. But the biggest thing is that hunting tourism only brings in a few million each year, total, while non-lethal tourism (photo-safaris and the like) bring in billions. So, really, hunting does fuck-all for wildlife preservation.
Click to expand...
Thank you. The myth of sport hunting being good for conservation is tossed around when this kind of thing happens just like the NRA throws out the idea that more guns will help every time a shooting happens.
 
D

darscot

Member
Rentahamster said:
Hunting has its place, but this looks to be straight up poaching, which is not good.



Not necessarily. A proper hunting program, when done right, can contribute to conservation efforts, especially when the land is not suitable for eco tourism. Look to Namibia as an example.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=160603954&postcount=457
Click to expand...

Those facts are laughable, I love how they say since the hunting ban in Kenya but in no way mention why the decline and if it has anything to do with hunting. It's such bullshit science, they try and make it sound like because Kenya does not allow animals to be killed for sport, there has been a massive loss in population. What exactly does not suitable for eco tourism mean? It is somehow suitable to hunt with a gun but not a camera?
 
A

AMUSIX

Member
Rentahamster said:
Hunting has its place, but this looks to be straight up poaching, which is not good.



Not necessarily. A proper hunting program, when done right, can contribute to conservation efforts, especially when the land is not suitable for eco tourism. Look to Namibia as an example.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=160603954&postcount=457
Click to expand...

First, we're talking about big-game hunting, not deer or duck or antelope.

Second, the best thing for conservation of any area is to not have ANY hunting, and that is proven time and time again. The reason why hunting helps in certain areas is that the predators have had their numbers brought down too much (by hunters) so that the prey population needs to be kept in check somehow
 
C

Crisco

Banned
Yeah I mean I could give a shit about lions about this guy deserves whatever's coming to him. Dick move warrants a dick response.
 
B

bsp

Member
I have seen some outrage over this from omnivores turn into them considering a vegetarian diet. Some good may come of this yet.

GAF usually doesn't respond too well to animal rights topics, but feeling anger and sadness over this is great. Just please think about how millions of more animal lives are taken every day in much worse ways and conditions than Cecil's in the name of an unnecessary diet many of you probably support.

What I said does not come from a place of hate but from a place of wishing to help make the world better and our morality more consistent. By necessity it may come off confrontational, but contrary to how many people on GAF respond to these messages that is not intended. :)
 
H

HP_Wuvcraft

Banned
One of the people on my FB feed is saying that the hate against this man is hyperbolic and he should sue Jimmy Kimmel for libel.

Defriended.
 
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