• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

American Soccer |OT| Life, liberty and the pursuit of the beautiful game

Status
Not open for further replies.

jtb

Banned
Those are just two metrics to consider, I'm not saying they're the more important or the best. Unfortunately soccer is a bit limited when it comes to this stuff but I'm willing to weigh any others. Those are the ones that happened to be mentioned (possession in the group stage by ESPN, shots by Opta) and are therefore at our disposal.



Actually it doesn't sound like you agree with the basic premise of what I'm saying, at all...

That second part was referring to the small sample size of an international tournament. I mean that from the perspective of—the sample size in baseball matters because of things like Pythagorean expectation, regression to the mean, etc. over multiple 162 game season and with such a heavily individualized, compartmentalized game (ie. one guy, one pitcher—either you hit the ball or you don't), it's a game where it's important not overreact in the moment.

but in a world cup—there IS no mean. you get ONE shot at winning the thing because in four years, the teams are completely different, you may not even be there, etc. so really, the only thing that's going to tell us if the tactics work or not is if we get the results or not. it doesn't matter if we're unlucky, it doesn't matter if we're outplayed. what matters is if we win or not and every decision you make has to be based around winning now.

and that's why Greece 2004 is considered a work of tactical genius while every other team that has parked the bus at international tournaments since then (and failed) has been derided. are the tactics, or even the level of players, any different? no. it just means that Greece had a, say, one in 250 chance of executing that game plan perfectly (their odds of winning the tournament) six games in a row and they did so. and that's how we'll judge them—not by the fact that they were "outplayed" in every single match or had practically no possession, but the fact that they won the damn thing.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Those are just two metrics to consider, I'm not saying they're the more important or the best. Unfortunately soccer is a bit limited when it comes to this stuff but I'm willing to weigh any others. Those are the ones that happened to be mentioned (possession in the group stage by ESPN, shots by Opta) and are therefore at our disposal.



Actually it doesn't sound like you agree with the basic premise of what I'm saying, at all...

We also have goals scored, which would be shots successful. I'd say the percentage of successful shots is perhaps a tiny bit more important than just the sheer number. There's also possession compared to goals scored. If you've got 20 percent possession and 2 goals I'd say you're doing better than a team with 80 percent possession with 1 goal scored as you are doing more with your possession.
 

Alur

Member
xbhaskarx, I agree with what you're saying. We "won" ugly, for the most part we didn't deserve to "win", and that shouldn't be held up as a success for US soccer.

I just don't think what you are calling a success is what I'm calling a success.

A success for you seems to be progressive, balanced football that allows us to hold our own and give it back a little in the course of winning a match (and a group). Group play where we aren't dominated for 2/3's of it and where we don't come down to the last ten minutes on the last day to find out if we advance.

A success for me is realizing that we aren't capable of what you consider a success against this competition (though we could have probably done so against other groups), and gutting out a ride to knockout round despite the steep odds.

You are wholly right. We have to do better. I'm just one of those who is satisfied we made it and who is optimistic about our future ability to get to where you're talking about.

Honestly, if folks wonder if we are better...think about how we did against these teams (in the overall sense) and then put this team back in Group C in 2010. It would've been our finest hour. We would've ran roughshod over those teams, England included.
 

Osorio

Member
Our passing forwards was atrocious as was our shape as was our confidence. We played a park the bus ball for way too long and there's nobody essential to blame. Belgium are a much more dangerous side and we have to acknowledge that. We lost our main holding and physical forward and we were left in a formation that was no advantageous to us. Bless our based keeper and everything but at the end of the day our hardly professionals performed admirably.

Can't wait to see the next batch of internationals with a higher amount of pressure put on them and a higher skill level.
 

xbhaskarx

Member
I mean, the fact that the "assist" is considered an important statistic that can measure a creative player's value in soccer says it all, really. it took baseball like, what, 50 years, to recognize that the RBI was a meaningless stat? just because the stats exist don't mean that they tell us anything about the game or players or performance, etc. our understanding of how the stats relate to the game is really still in its infancy and there's a long way to go yet for Opta and co. with their work on analytics.

Perfect is the enemy of good
Assists are not a meaningless stat. The fact that Donovan had roughly one per three games with the national team tells us something about what he did in those games. If the stat doesn't adequately take into account the contribution of say a Xavi, that doesn't make it "meaningless." It's still better to have that information than to not have it, especially if you can recognize its limitations. If I'm a baseball fan trying to evaluate the performance of hitters prior the 1980s, I'll take RBIs and the rest of those newspaper stats as imperfect but not meaningless measurements. You think those stats were bad, you should check out the track record of human eyes, perception, memory, interpretations, etc. (since I already mentioned Moneyball I'll link Michael Lewis' article on Thinking Fast and Slow). And as Opta-types develop better metrics, chances created or through balls or whatever they may be, we can develop an even better understanding. For example today's fivethirtyeight article on Messi.


but in a world cup—there IS no mean. you get ONE shot at winning the thing because in four years, the teams are completely different, you may not even be there, etc. so really, the only thing that's going to tell us if the tactics work or not is if we get the results or not. it doesn't matter if we're unlucky, it doesn't matter if we're outplayed. what matters is if we win or not and every decision you make has to be based around winning now.

I agree that it doesn't matter. For the 2014 World Cup, it doesn't matter. We beat Ghana, tied Portugal, lost to Germany, got out of the group, lost to Belgium. That's all that matters. To quote the article I posted before the Belgium game:

In the long run it doesn't matter that Landon Donovan stayed home or Jozy Altidore and Vincent Kompany got hurt. The history above is scorelines. There's no asterisks or footnotes talking about Torsten Frings, Koman Coulibaly, or Daniele De Rossi. There are only scorelines and totals.

I'm talking about what we can take out of this for the future. For that, more than wins and losses matter. In fact, wins and losses don't matter at all for that. If we had beaten Belgium on a late Wondo goal, for the future they'd probably remain pretty confident that they would have a good chance of beating us next time.
 

NoRéN

Member
I'm sorry but wondo completely choked. If you disagree that's fine. Julian green nails an absolutely beautiful one timer on his first touch in a while cup game as an 18 year old. Wondo was brought on the team over Donovan for this fucking moment by our coach and he choked. That's on the coach.

Agreed. Sorry, Wondo. That's how it works. You get a chance and put it away and you become a legend. You missed and now your career will be defined by it.

Klinnsman, you decided to be a petty bitch and it's come back to bite you in the ass.

Also, thank you Bradley for running so much?
 

xbhaskarx

Member
I also regret everything I said in reverence of Wondo

So I shouldn't bother continuing our conversation from earlier?

I dunno about anyone else but I'd like to see Wondo get the start tomorrow.

As a Quakes fan I have to ask, why?

Cuz he has solid movement and I'm tired of seeing Dempsey isolated up front by himself. Regardless of his perceived quality, his movement can be a nightmare for centerbacks.

There's also the advantage of being acclimated to playing in that temperature and humidity.

The temperature and humidity! Wondo's nothing, Brad Davis plays in freaking HOUSTON, who cares if he's mediocre, surely he will dominate down in Brazil!
 

jtb

Banned
xbhaskarx: the only reason I say it is a meaningless statistic is because it does not measure what THAT player did, it measures what another player does. so if player X assists a player Y, what it really means is that player Y scored a goal. so, really, the assist is a measurement of player Y. it's like the RBI in that it measures something, but it doesn't tell us anything about the quality of the "assisting" player because it's dependent on another player. it's the same reason I hate with a burning passion the recent proliferation of Opta's "chance created" stat—because their definition of a "chance" is any pass that is directly followed up with a shot. (and I assume "clear cut chance" is shot on goal) so if you pick out a brilliant pass to a player who can't and won't shoot, then that's not a "chance" or if you pass to a player 30 yards from goal and they try a shitty, wild speculative shot, that's a "chance."

for me, it's not a "good" (vs. a perfect) stat, it's just one that literally does not function as a measurement of the player in question. a stat like "distance covered;" that's a "good" stat that tells us something, something that might not correlate directly with winning or losing, but at least you know it actually measures the player in question.

anyways, I agree the analytics will improve but it's still a sport heavily dependent on subjective analysis, moreso than most. like I said earlier, this rant is less directed at you and more just general frustration with the limitations of analytics currently and the punditry's rush to use these stats without really understanding what they represent or their context.

finally, I think you're being a little pessimistic (the team got the results we wanted I think); the next world cup is four years away and a lot will change, primarily within the talent base, between now and then. but if we play this cautiously and this, let's face it, poorly, then yeah, it'll be an uphill battle to make a serious dent in the tournament. but even the rare dark horse like Uruguay in 2010 has to get a very favorable draw in order to get as far as they did—a lot has to break one way or another, so I'm hesitant to read too much into future performances either way when so many circumstances are in flux.
 

xbhaskarx

Member
Baseball stats are far more advanced at this point because there are unique events and isolated players, but that doesn't mean you can't develop useful stats in sports where players are dependent on each other. Again just because assists and chances created depend on other players doesn't mean they're not still useful despite the limitations that you mention, we'll have to disagree on where they fall in the good vs perfect spectrum because to me that's the definition of good. There will be better stats eventually as technology improves, there's just too much money involved for that not to be the case... basketball is a somewhat similar sport and it's starting to happen there already (another Michael Lewis article).


The next World Cup is 4 years away but the next important tournament is one year away. If we win the next Gold Cup we automatically qualify for the 2017 Confederations Cup. And then two years from now there's a Copa America that will be both a great chance to play against top teams and have increased visibility as it's the biggest tournament here since 1994. And the Olympics that same year, if we actually qualify this time.

I'm not pessimistic, I just hope our style of play is more like it was throughout 2013 than how it was during Klinsmann's first year and a half in charge, or during the last few months...
 
I still don't understand why they didn't bring Donovan. I'm not even saying they had to play him, but there were other players who didn't play. Donovan can bring veteran leadership off the field, and not to mention he COULD come in as a late sub. For instance, instead of Wondo.

Landon makes that goal 100% of the time.

The thing that bugs me most is Klinnsman seemed to regress or not trust his team in this WC. The team didn't play anything like last year. Instead of being more aggressive we were on our heels the entire tournament, except for those last 15 minutes against Belgium when we almost scored two goals.

Hopefully the youth on the team can make some good progress, there are going to be some big shoes to fill.
 

Talon

Member
The thing that bugs me most is Klinnsman seemed to regress or not trust his team in this WC. The team didn't play anything like last year. Instead of being more aggressive we were on our heels the entire tournament, except for those last 15 minutes against Belgium when we almost scored two goals.
A. The team was too fucking busy turning the ball over in midfield to maintain possession.

B. That's what happens when you play Belgium or Germany, not Panama or Jamaica.
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
A. The team was too fucking busy turning the ball over in midfield to maintain possession.

B. That's what happens when you play Belgium or Germany, not Panama or Jamaica.

I would also add that Altidore missing virtually the entire WC threw a wrench into strategy (no more hold up play- Dempsey now alone).

It is what it is. USMNT needs better midfield play.
 
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...port-dca-tim-howard-national-airport/jrYbykxD

yes pls

---

http://www.espnfc.com/team/united-states/660/blog/post/1928688/tim-howard-usa-world-cup-2014

BriAUXXCIAArqz2.jpg
 
- Grantland: World Cup Pass & Move: The Boys of Summer
For the last two weeks, the United States men’s national team has had your neighbor talking about 4-3-3 formations, the lady on the bus wearing a Clint Dempsey–riding-Falkor T-shirt, and has probably been the reason dozens of babies will be named John Anthony in nine months. The American players helped inspire a palpable passion around the game in this country, unlike anything we’ve felt before. And they helped make this truly extraordinary World Cup one that none of us will ever forget. With the United States’s exit from the tournament at the hands of Belgium, a few Grantland writers — Brian Phillips, Chris Ryan, Mike L. Goodman, Noah Davis, Ryan O’Hanlon, and Bill Barnwell — wanted to take the opportunity to pay tribute to the players that gave us so much this summer.
 

methodman

Banned
If I had the ability, I'd ask klinsmann:

"you brought wondo over Landon. Wondo missed a game winning shot. Landon has made those types of goals. This mistake cost you a trip to the quarterfinals and it's 100% on you. You cost us a trip to play Argentina who I believe we could have beat as well.

How's your day going?"
 

Esch

Banned
If I had the ability, I'd ask klinsmann:

"you brought wondo over Landon. Wondo missed a game winning shot. Landon has made those types of goals. This mistake cost you a trip to the quarterfinals and it's 100% on you. You cost us a trip to play Argentina who I believe we could have beat as well.

How's your day going?"

I'm pretty sure Klinsmann is confident about the choices he made, and I see no reason why he shouldn't. I think he should have brought Donovan along for a sub, but people really do have goofy magic intangible talk coming out the ass sometimes. How on earth can you make a definitive statement about what Donovan might or might not have done? Plus, if he really wanted to go to this WC as a starter, he should have kept up a higher level of play.

It is what it is.
 
- Deadline: Belgium v USA Gives ESPN Highest Ever Overnight Rating For A World Cup Match
ESPN has come in with its numbers for last night’s Belgium v USA knockout match, and they are predictably high. The Red Devils’ 2-1 victory over Team USA averaged a network record 9.6 overnight rating, making it the highest overnight rating for a World Cup match ever on ESPN or ESPN2. Televised coverage peaked from 5:45–6 PM ET with a 14.1 rating while WatchESPN peaked at 1.5M concurrent viewers. ESPN’s coverage posted a 5% hike over the 2010 Saturday afternoon airing of the U.S.’ loss to Ghana in South Africa. When including ABC, the valiant effort against Belgium ranks behind the 1994 final, and USA v Brazil round of 16 matches for largest metered market rating.

The top-10 metered markets are New York (15.0), Hartford/New Haven (13.2), Washington, D.C., (12.8), Richmond (12.3), Boston (12.2), West Palm Beach (12.0), Baltimore (11.4), Cincinnati (11.4), San Diego (11.0), Columbus (10.8), Norfolk (10.8) and Orlando (10.8). Fast national ratings and viewership numbers are expected later today.
- Jimmy Kimmel: Lie Witness News - World Cup Edition
We went out onto Hollywood Blvd and found people who claimed to be big fans of the US soccer team and asked them how they think Landon Donovan has been playing so far. If you follow soccer, you know that Landon Donovan was cut from the team in May before the World Cup even started. However that didn't stop them from weighing in on his performance in this special World Cup edition of #LieWitnessNews
 

gutshot

Member
I should never have gone to a bar to watch this game. In the past 2 World Cups, the US is 0-3 every time I watch the game at a bar. They are 2-0-3 in all their other games. Sorry guys!

Seriously though, I'm surprisingly not that upset over this result. Yes, it sucks that we came close to winning (why Wondo, why?), but the truth is we weren't the better team. And it didn't have anything to do with Klinsmann's tactical decisions or his lineup or even his 23 man roster, it has to do with a lack of world-class talent. We were basically playing a Premier League all-star team with a team of half MLS stars and half decent players at middling European clubs. The talent gap was just too wide.

I believe Klinsmann realized this in the run-up to Brazil and that is why he chose to switch to a more defensive approach. Yeah sure, we could have played attacking and attractive soccer... and we likely would have lost all 3 group games in the process (see: Australia). What would that have gotten us? What would the conversation be like if that had happened? Doing what we had to do to get out of the group and put up a fight against Belgium is ultimately better for soccer in this country.

Look at how interest has grown this World Cup. How many soccer fans were born over these past couple weeks? How many kids in the US are now dreaming of playing in a World Cup 10,12,14 years from now? Those kids who may have chosen football or basketball, may now choose soccer instead. That is ultimately how we are going to get better.

Talent is what wins at World Cups. Tactics, luck and hard work all play a part, but can only take you so far. Look at the 8 teams that are left, with the exception of Costa Rica (who are having a dream run and got lucky to be matched up with Greece in the R16) all of them are in the top 13 in player market value. USA is 26, hanging with the likes of Ecuador, South Korea and Algeria. Frankly, with a talent disparity that great, it's a minor miracle that we got out of our group.

We've reached the pinnacle of what we can achieve given the level of our current player pool. Consistently get out of the group stage and, with some luck, win a knockout game. That's all we can hope for really, until we get some world-class players. Klinsmann knows this, which is why he's doing all he can to overhaul our youth system and working so hard to recruit dual nationals. In 10 to 12 years from now, these efforts will hopefully bear fruit. Until then, we just need to be patient and enjoy watching our boys play their hearts out for the future of US soccer.
 

daoster

Member
3 Years is what Klinsmann had with the national team, with a revolving door of players of various skill level in a multitude of locations, and already we were beginning to see the changes that Klinsmann wanted beginning to take hold, especially since last year.

But that was against CONCACAF opponents, and in games against better talent, games that ultimately didn't matter.

This is the World Cup, the ultimate results business show for soccer, being rigid to a certain style will come back and hurt you. That's what Spain showed.

The Dutch too. Throughout the World Cup qualifying, they were playing 4-3-3, then all of a sudden, they started playing 5-3-2 this World Cup, I mean, what gives, right? I wish they had played the 4-3-3 style that is more suited to their "Total Football" that helped them dominate qualifying!

You can be like Lalas and keep on complaining "where is the pretty (or dominating, or better style, or whatever adjective you think is apt) soccer you promised us Klinsmann?" or you can see that the best laid plans can almost certainly go off the rails pretty, and ours did 21 minutes into the World Cup.

And for the Klinsmann didn't trust his team in the WC comment...really?

Because it seems to me, that Klinsmann gave them a LOT of trust, even when American fans were questioning their skill level, or why they were there, or if they could work in a certain formation with other players (in no particular order, Beckerman, Jones, Bradley in this World Cup, Altidore, Julian Green, DeAndre Yedlin, Omar Gonzales, Bedoya, John Brooks, etc.).

I would say Klinsmann has a complete trust in his team, and has no regrets with his selection.
 
If I had the ability, I'd ask klinsmann:

"you brought wondo over Landon. Wondo missed a game winning shot. Landon has made those types of goals. This mistake cost you a trip to the quarterfinals and it's 100% on you. You cost us a trip to play Argentina who I believe we could have beat as well.

How's your day going?"

Wondo has made those types of goals too, in fact that's his bread and butter, that's why he was brought in because he gets a lot of chances in the box and usually he capitalizes on them, it just didn't work out for him last night. Would I have liked for him to at least hit the net? Sure. But I don't criticize Klinsmann for bringing him on.
 

alstein

Member
How do you improve that talent gap? How do you get more kids to play soccer professionally?

I don't think you can try to find a superstar. I think it's going to take moving the game to poor neighborhoods and telling those kids they can go pro at 18 and earn 50-100k somehow. (better alternative than Minor League baseball or college football)

MLS needs a program that gets kids into developmental teams, and guarantees them a scholly to college if they don't make it. Probably expensive but would bring in the talent.

To get the an American Messi, you might need 1000 (no offense to him intended) Jay Demerits to get that guy.
 

xbhaskarx

Member
Wondo has made those types of goals too, in fact that's his bread and butter, that's why he was brought in because he gets a lot of chances in the box and usually he capitalizes on them

Again, as a Quakes fan (meaning I have the unfortunate pleasure of watching them attempt to play soccer on a regular basis), I have to ask, how often do you watch the guy? Yes Wondo is a prolific goal scorer who always scores those types of goals... in 2012. In 2013 Wondo scored 11 goals in 2610 minutes, or .38 per 90 minutes. For comparison another forward in the pool Juan Agudelo had 9 goals in 1402 minutes that season, or .58 per 90 minutes. And he was 20, and moved between a Chivas team that was crap after he left and a Revs team that was crap before he got there. And of course Mike Magee scored tons of goals in 2013. You could say Magee was "the Wondo of that MLS season"... in 2010 it was Buddle and he made the roster, of course our forward pool was far weaker then (we also took Robbie Findley, hell some people actually wanted Conor Casey), whereas this time we left off promising guys like Agudelo and Boyd. In baseball there is something called an AAAA player, a guy who tears up AAA but doesn't have the necessary skills / talents to do the same at the top level. I think we need a term for guys like that in soccer facing top competition at the national team level. Because the speed of play and speed of thought at level is not something every player can adapt to. Forget guys like Wondo, Magee and Brad Davis, I'm still not sure Zusi even has it...
 

Meier

Member
The reality of it is that we're just not there yet. Jurgen can't make his players play attractive football if they don't have the ability. They weren't at the level of Belgium and that was obvious. Belgium wasn't at the level of Belgium even 4 years ago. We'll get there, it just takes time.

Gedion Zelalem would be huge. He has the ability to be that playmaker coming through the middle that we need. We have a lot of young guys who hopefully can break through in the next 4 seasons.
 
I would also add that Altidore missing virtually the entire WC threw a wrench into strategy (no more hold up play- Dempsey now alone).

It is what it is. USMNT needs better midfield play.

How is this a defense of the coach?

He had 23 slots, it's completely on him that he didn't bring a backup for the most important position.

Donovan may not be at his old level, and if Altidore was fine, Donovan could have been a great bench warmer.

But they needed someone to sub into that position, which is where Donovan excels. It's all I the German coach for fucking that up.

Also, with the exception of that one magic free kick, the us was terrible at them. Bradley can't kick over the wall for shit.

Guess who can?
 

Dartastic

Member
Dude that is not going to work. I feel your pain though.
It worked. I made it. I didn't get spoiled. Yay me.

...that being said, I don't really have time to read through the thread right now, but the one thing I'm glad that happened was Green showed up and scored. I think it proved all the "WHY IS GREEN ON THE ROSTER" people wrong.
 

NoRéN

Member
I still don't understand why they didn't bring Donovan. I'm not even saying they had to play him, but there were other players who didn't play. Donovan can bring veteran leadership off the field, and not to mention he COULD come in as a late sub. For instance, instead of Wondo.

Landon makes that goal 100% of the time.

The thing that bugs me most is Klinnsman seemed to regress or not trust his team in this WC. The team didn't play anything like last year. Instead of being more aggressive we were on our heels the entire tournament, except for those last 15 minutes against Belgium when we almost scored two goals.

Hopefully the youth on the team can make some good progress, there are going to be some big shoes to fill.
Agreed. Donovan is a leader. That's a dude that goes and argues with refs for his players. That's a dude that doesn't just sit when he get taken down and waits for the call to go his way. The US had a leader in brazil. Unfortunately he was busy stuck in goal keeping the US in the tournament.

4 years and a new coach and all i kept seeing was bunker down soccer.

A. The team was too fucking busy turning the ball over in midfield to maintain possession.

B. That's what happens when you play Belgium or Germany, not Panama or Jamaica.
Those turnover, man. They hurt us bad. I remember someone mentioning during the send off series that sloppy play like that against good opposition would hurt us and others were saying to stop with the doom and gloom. Obvious who was right in that one.
I would also add that Altidore missing virtually the entire WC threw a wrench into strategy (no more hold up play- Dempsey now alone).

It is what it is. USMNT needs better midfield play.
The fact that one striker going down due to injury throwing a wrench in the entire plan highlights a couple of things: klinnsman made a mistake in not taking a player for player sub for altidore (EJ?) and we were too dependent on this one player for goals.

Not only do i hope Johansson and Altidore start being used immediately but I hope we can find another 2 strikers that can be used regularly in place of them so that the same thing doesn't happen in the future.
If I had the ability, I'd ask klinsmann:

"you brought wondo over Landon. Wondo missed a game winning shot. Landon has made those types of goals. This mistake cost you a trip to the quarterfinals and it's 100% on you. You cost us a trip to play Argentina who I believe we could have beat as well.

How's your day going?"
I wish someone would ask him that.
 
The reality of it is that we're just not there yet. Jurgen can't make his players play attractive football if they don't have the ability. They weren't at the level of Belgium and that was obvious. Belgium wasn't at the level of Belgium even 4 years ago. We'll get there, it just takes time.

Gedion Zelalem would be huge. He has the ability to be that playmaker coming through the middle that we need. We have a lot of young guys who hopefully can break through in the next 4 seasons.
I'm really hoping for gedion. He'll be a star here I don't know how hell fit in to Germany with the amount of talent they always have.

But I'm super excited about some of our younger players like yedlin who've grown up in the MLS the league is getting better and were showing some homegrown talent can compete with euros. This will only get better.
 

daoster

Member
How is this a defense of the coach?

He had 23 slots, it's completely on him that he didn't bring a backup for the most important position.

Donovan may not be at his old level, and if Altidore was fine, Donovan could have been a great bench warmer.

But they needed someone to sub into that position, which is where Donovan excels. It's all I the German coach for fucking that up.

Also, with the exception of that one magic free kick, the us was terrible at them. Bradley can't kick over the wall for shit.

Guess who can?

Nope. Donovan was not and is not a replacement for Altidore. Eddie Johnson or Boyd would have been a decent replacement, and there's an argument that Boyd at the very least should have been on the 23 man roster (maybe in place of Wondo, if that makes some of you feel better about his miss).

And seriously, everybody is making it sound like Donovan is the magical potion that would have made everything in this World Cup different, but that really is all conjecture at this point. Donovan not being on the US team wasn't as big a deal as say...Rossi being off the Italian team.

But hey. Keep on creating that alternate reality.
 
Nope. Donovan was not and is not a replacement for Altidore. Eddie Johnson or Boyd would have been a decent replacement, and there's an argument that Boyd at the very least should have been on the 23 man roster (maybe in place of Wondo, if that makes some of you feel better about his miss).

And seriously, everybody is making it sound like Donovan is the magical potion that would have made everything in this World Cup different, but that really is all conjecture at this point. Donovan not being on the US team wasn't as big a deal as say...Rossi being off the Italian team.

But hey. Keep on creating that alternate reality.

No one is saying that Donovan was or sure going to come in and save the day. But he sure as hell would have been a better option than " woops, I didnt plan for an injury in a sport with frequent injuries"

He has 23 slots.

11 star players
6 star subs
6 "break in case of emergency" subs

If you discount the two backup goalies, that gives you 4 slots, guys who never play. Youre telling me Donovan would not have made a better pick than one of those 4 nameless faces on the bench?


Also, the France - Germany game won't be on ABC. It wont be on ESPN.

It will be on ESPN2.

Cant say Im sad that Disney lost the rights.
 
They weirdest thing about Donovan was how ESPN kept shoving him in our faces. I felt bad for him, it was akward
No one is saying that Donovan was or sure going to come in and save the day. But he sure as hell would have been a better option than " woops, I didnt plan for an injury in a sport with frequent injuries"

He has 23 slots.

11 star players
6 star subs
6 "break in case of emergency" subs

If you discount the two backup goalies, that gives you 4 slots, guys who never play. Youre telling me Donovan would not have made a better pick than one of those 4 nameless faces on the bench?


Also, the France - Germany game won't be on ABC. It wont be on ESPN.

It will be on ESPN2.

Cant say Im sad that Disney lost the rights.
isn't ESPN2 on basic cable? Don't see the big deal

What channels are fox gonna use? All they have are FOX, FOX sports 1 and FOX Soccer.
 

Nesotenso

Member
The games should be on ABC.

Dont pretend that being locked away on cable doesnt make a difference, especially on a secondary channel.

I don't think Fox is a better option really. Forget that they have terrible on air personalities covering the game, the reach of Fox Sports 1 isn't going to magically match or eclipse that of ESPN. And you can bet that midweek games in 2018 and 2022 won't be on the main Fox channel.
 
I don't think Fox is a better option really. Forget that they have terrible on air personalities covering the game, the reach of Fox Sports 1 isn't going to magically match or eclipse that of ESPN. And you can bet that midweek games in 2018 and 2022 won't be on the main Fox channel.

I dont think theyll have that baseball guy again....

Midweek games, maybe not. But Sunday afternoon US games? I sure as fuck hope so.

That being said, midweek games will be at like 7am, so theres a chance.

Im not cheering for Fox as much as I am cheering that Disney lost it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom