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[RyanPierre]

You can make the 'behind the scenes' argument for any title ever. Amplitude is using an existing engine:

We’ll also be moving the game into the new proprietary engine Harmonix has developed over the past 10 years.

It's not like you're paying for engine R&D.

My favorite part is that you continue doing the same thing I was talking about and persist in pretending to understand the intricacies of what's involved when you (and all of us) don't have the full picture. I really like how you bolded the fact that they've been building an engine for ten years, but you didn't highlight the first part of the sentence, since you seem to think moving an entire ten-year old game into a new engine is going to be some trivial task. Like they just press a few buttons and the old code magically all works now. Give me a break.

 

[teokrazia]

Loved Frequency, loved but not so much Amplitude.
I hope the project can make it!

 

[Canis lupus]

IIRC, Amp & Freq really reviewed poorly when they were released.

You remember that wrong, both games were critical successes

http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-2/amplitude

http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-2/frequency

 

[Antilurker77]

That's not what I said at all. What I said was that $1.68 million is too much to spend to remake a niche game and that they need to cut costs as best they can.

At the same time, "HD game" doesn't inherently mean it's a far more expensive game. There's a whole lot of factors involved. In the case of Amplitude, there's definitely some art that needs to be built for higher resolutions, but that's not where a significant amount of the costs are going here. If so, I think they've greatly misunderstood why people keep asking them to make another Amplitude game.

If they want to make the game to be the same scope as Frequency/Amplitude, then it's going to be at least as expensive, if not more than the PS2 originals. HD art takes more time than SD art, and thus more cash.

They aren't going all out either. No licensed songs, no avatars, no remix mode. Right now they have the bare minimum as to what fans would expect from an Amplitude sequel.

 

[dani_dc]

Shame that the kickstarter isn't doing better, I was hoping for a Vita version but now I just want it to be made, Amplitude and Sequence were easily two of my favourite PS2 games.

Really curious why they didn't just do a spiritual sequel for more platforms, it would probably be doing better if it was the case.

 

[BuzzJive]

If they want to make the game to be the same scope as Frequency/Amplitude, then it's going to be at least as expensive, if not more than the PS2 originals. HD art takes more time than SD art, and thus more cash.

They aren't going all out either. No licensed songs, no avatars, no remix mode. Right now they have the bare minimum as to what fans would expect from an Amplitude sequel.

Agreed. If it's it the exact same scope, then it's going to be roughly as expensive. I'd argue that there'd be some cost savings, as their engine, tools and experience are far better than they were back then, but let's disregard that for now.

But then you're essentially helping make my point. They aren't going all out, meaning it's a smaller scope game, meaning a smaller budget. So even in your scenario, the game shouldn't cost as much as it did before. The cost of "HD" doesn't dwarf the savings of smaller scope.

I'm arguing that they should have started with a bare bones minimum, and grown it from there via stretch goals. They are asking for too much.

 

[Antilurker77]

Agreed. If it's it the exact same scope, then it's going to be roughly as expensive. I'd argue that there'd be some cost savings, as their engine, tools and experience are far better than they were back then, but let's disregard that for now.

But then you're essentially helping make my point. They aren't going all out, meaning it's a smaller scope game, meaning a smaller budget. So even in your scenario, the game shouldn't cost as much as it did before. The cost of "HD" doesn't dwarf the savings of smaller scope.

I'm arguing that they should have started with a bare bones minimum, and grown it from there via stretch goals. They are asking for too much.

They are starting with the bare minimum. It's impossible to make it cheaper than this. You're vastly underestimating how much more expensive HD art is.

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

Just requoting this because it may alleviate some concerns

John T Drake explains it quite well on the Twitch stream about the 775K/18 days/Sony/why not PC/licensed music/etc from here:

http://www.twitch.tv/harmonixmusic/b/526182100?t=60m47s

to here:

http://www.twitch.tv/harmonixmusic/b/526182100?t=74m24s

Smashing those queries.

I'm arguing that they should have started with a bare bones minimum, and grown it from there via stretch goals. They are asking for too much.

They said $775 is the bare minimum and they are putting $1million of their own money ONLY IF it reaches that bare minimum goal.

Interesting debate of them "asking for too much" here. I imagine the majority of us don't know what it takes to budget a game like this.

 

[BuzzJive]

They are starting with the bare minimum. It's impossible to make it cheaper than this. You're vastly underestimating how much more expensive HD art is.

I've put plenty of thoughts out there on cost reduction already. You can argue that the HD art is going to double or triple the costs of this game all you want, but I'm going to strongly disagree with that. Could they spend that much? Of course they could. But again, that's not what I believe they should be going for here.

Just an FYI, I've got nearly 9 years of game industry experience. That certainly doesn't qualify me to allocate all their resources for them, but I'd say it gives me some knowledge for throwing out some estimates and suggestions.

I think their passion for their ideal version of the project along with the budgets of their recent games has clouded their vision. I want them to succeed, and I don't believe they've given themselves the best chance to do so.

 

[FyreWulff]

Has anyone complaining about the price divided the amount by what they expect the yearly wage of each person working on this to be?

Because that money starts running out REAL fast when you do it. Games are expensive. Amazing how people want developers to have better wages and conditions but don't want to pay for them.

 

[RyanPierre]

I've put plenty of thoughts out there on cost reduction already. You can argue that the HD art is going to double or triple the costs of this game all you want, but I'm going to strongly disagree with that. Could they spend that much? Of course they could. But again, that's not what I believe they should be going for here.

Just an FYI, I've got nearly 9 years of game industry experience. That certainly doesn't qualify me to allocate all their resources for them, but I'd say it gives me some knowledge for throwing out some estimates and suggestions.

I think their passion for their ideal version of the project along with the budgets of their recent games has clouded their vision. I want them to succeed, and I don't believe they've given themselves the best chance to do so.

I don't think they're interested in releasing a bare bones version of the game that doesn't match their vision. I certainly wouldn't be interested in buying such a thing. Either make the complete game or don't, but I don't want to see them half-ass a product when they have a track record for making excellent games.

 

[hawk2025]

I've put plenty of thoughts out there on cost reduction already. You can argue that the HD art is going to double or triple the costs of this game all you want, but I'm going to strongly disagree with that. Could they spend that much? Of course they could. But again, that's not what I believe they should be going for here.

Just an FYI, I've got nearly 9 years of game industry experience. That certainly doesn't qualify me to allocate all their resources for them, but I'd say it gives me some knowledge for throwing out some estimates and suggestions.

I think their passion for their ideal version of the project along with the budgets of their recent games has clouded their vision. I want them to succeed, and I don't believe they've given themselves the best chance to do so.

Harmonix has at least nearly double of what you have in game industry experience. I don't see why you would think your knowledge of someone else's budgeting and financing would be better, without even knowing the actual details of it.

I don't have game industry experience, but have plenty of experience with failed business projects -- and your recommendations are a surefire way to result in exactly that. You propose lower wages and a lower quality product that cuts from the original intentions of the team -- in what was actually born out of a passion project. The probability of disaster increases rapidly by following your suggestions.

 

[Neuromancer]

Has anyone complaining about the price divided the amount by what they expect the yearly wage of each person working on this to be?

Because that money starts running out REAL fast when you do it. Games are expensive. Amazing how people want developers to have better wages and conditions but don't want to pay for them.

That's a really good point.

 

[Antilurker77]

I've put plenty of thoughts out there on cost reduction already. You can argue that the HD art is going to double or triple the costs of this game all you want, but I'm going to strongly disagree with that. Could they spend that much? Of course they could. But again, that's not what I believe they should be going for here.

Just an FYI, I've got nearly 9 years of game industry experience. That certainly doesn't qualify me to allocate all their resources for them, but I'd say it gives me some knowledge for throwing out some estimates and suggestions.

I think their passion for their ideal version of the project along with the budgets of their recent games has clouded their vision. I want them to succeed, and I don't believe they've given themselves the best chance to do so.

The only thing left they could cut would be the multiplayer, but at that point the game would be so bare bones why would anyone bother?

 

[Dead Prince]

they should post updates if they want people to donate. and by post updates i mean through their KS so it doesn't look like it's abandoned.

 

[RyanPierre]

they should post updates if they want people to donate. and by post updates i mean through their KS so it doesn't look like it's abandoned.

I believe they mentioned doing daily updates. I guess there's nothing today, but I do hope they do it as frequently as possible. They must know fast these 18 days are going to go.

I don't know exactly how much (if any) work they've put into the project so far beyond the concept art, but if they could update the Kickstarter with a quick video demo of an early prototype, that might go a long way toward showing good faith for some hesitant, but interested backers.

 

[boingball]

they should post updates if they want people to donate. and by post updates i mean through their KS so it doesn't look like it's abandoned.

While I agree with this statement in general, I think it is a little bit early to say the KS looks abandoned. It's not even 36 hours after they started it... (and they actually posted a comment 4hours ago).

I think this KS is currently tracking towards 500k or so, so will miss its goal. Vita stretch goal is completely off the table.

Don't know what they can do. The Amplitude name belongs to Sony, buying it from Sony to allow the game also on other platforms is probably to expensive. Establishing a new brand will attract even less interest.

 

[sense]

775k seems like a large investment and i am not sure if there is that much interest in this game. i kinda don't see this making it but good luck to them.

 

[noobasuar]

These guys just made hundreds of millions due to Viacom. Fuck em for asking for crowd-funding and thankfully this looks like it won't reach its goal.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

Amp and Freq were awesome games, Freq was actually in my top 5 ps2 games. Was a surprise hit for my friends as well, given none of them had previously heard of it till I showed them.

Backed this basically as soon as I found out about it. Really hopeful that it hits it's goal.

 

[hodayathink]

I've put plenty of thoughts out there on cost reduction already. You can argue that the HD art is going to double or triple the costs of this game all you want, but I'm going to strongly disagree with that. Could they spend that much? Of course they could. But again, that's not what I believe they should be going for here.

Just an FYI, I've got nearly 9 years of game industry experience. That certainly doesn't qualify me to allocate all their resources for them, but I'd say it gives me some knowledge for throwing out some estimates and suggestions.

I think their passion for their ideal version of the project along with the budgets of their recent games has clouded their vision. I want them to succeed, and I don't believe they've given themselves the best chance to do so.

I said this before and you kind of ignored it, so I'll say it again: They make the barebones version you're suggesting they make, and they probably don't make their money back anyway because it's too small of a game for anyone but the die-hards to actually purchase. I honestly think the game they are attempting to fund is, generally speaking, the smallest game they can make that would actually have a chance at catching on with a mainstream audience and making back the money they're spending on it (especially if they can get it to a point where they can add DLC on at least a semi-regular basis).

 

[TAJ]

The RB game was. A lot easier, no electronic music, etc. It was at least similar, but not quite the same. Amplitude had some note charts that would make IIDX players cringe.

There's a lot of electronic music if you count official DLC and Rock Band Network.

 

[Bundy]

These guys just made hundreds of millions due to Viacom. Fuck em for asking for crowd-funding and thankfully this looks like it won't reach its goal.

These posts still make me laugh

 

[RyanPierre]

These posts still make me laugh

I don't know if I even feel like replying to them anymore. Five more ill-informed people will simply pop up in their place afterward. It's a constant cycle.

 

[Effigenius]

And you can help us pick which tracks make it into the final shipping tracklist!

I was interested for this until I saw you have to pay $500 for this. Ridiculous.

 

[RyanPierre]

I was interested for this until I saw you have to pay $500 for this. Ridiculous.

I do think the reward tiers could have been done better. Lower it to something like $100 and I think you could very possibly fill all 500 slots by the end, which would be a good $50k. Right now they only have 7 backers at $500, which is $3.5k - not likely to even approach an amount they'd probably be able to rake in by having a more reasonably priced tier for it.

 

[R_thanatos]

These guys just made hundreds of millions due to Viacom. Fuck em for asking for crowd-funding and thankfully this looks like it won't reach its goal.

Perfect exemple of someone missing the point of this kickstarter , it's sad really....

 

[Guess Who]

These posts still make me laugh

My concern is that this mindset might be common enough that it does hurt the Kickstarter.

 

[RyanPierre]

My concern is that this mindset might be common enough that it does hurt the Kickstarter.

It was pretty big news, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is actually hurting the Kickstarter campaign. "F Harmonix, they got hundreds of millions" is a sentiment I'm seeing repeated all over the internet. Not many people seem to understand the difference between Harmonix shareholders and Harmonix the corporation. And I remember a lot of people back then mistakenly thinking that Harmonix the corporation was getting hundreds of millions, which was not the case.

 

[Angouri]

These guys just made hundreds of millions due to Viacom. Fuck em for asking for crowd-funding and thankfully this looks like it won't reach its goal.

You missed the part where that money went to Viacom, not Harmonix. Being part of Viacom comes with perks (see: Beatles game), and not being with Viacom comes with the opposite (see: relying on Disney as a publisher for their big title). The moneytrain ended when Viacom dumped them.

They're basically asking for matching funds from the community to prove that the game should come out; by preordering a copy of the game. It's way better than Double Fine's "I guess we'll make (half) a game??" campaigns and that Shaq Fu nightmare.

And yeah, 750k? That's enough for about ~10-15 people (or less depending on going wages + benefits) to work for a year on a project. Video games don't make themselves. They need artists, musicians, designers and QA to make this game a reality.

 

[border]

What was the Shaq Fu nightmare?

 

[RyanPierre]

You missed the part where that money went to Viacom, not Harmonix.

I believe he's referring to the dispute over the 2008 Rock Band 2 bonuses. Viacom was refusing to pay, but eventually the Harmonix shareholders won the legal battle. Still, the money indeed did not actually go to Harmonix itself.

 

[Fady K]

21% of the goal reached already, not bad

 

[bak4fun]

21% of the goal reached already, not bad

It's not good, kickstarter tends to be really front loaded. It is probably still going to slow down, as we are still in the first 48h, but even if they manage the pace of the last 24h (34k/day) they won't make it.

I am not worry yet as they have said that they have more things to show/announce.

 

[Fady K]

It's not good, kickstarter tends to be really front loaded. It is probably still going to slow down, as we are still in the first 48h, but even if they manage the pace of the last 24h (34k/day) they won't make it.

I am not worry yet as they have said that they have more things to show/announce.

Hmm....worst case scenario is it could get a big boost from some Sony vets in its' last few days if it needed it ;D I was under the impression that KS tends to get the biggest boosts on its last few days. Let's see how this goes.

 

[$h@d0w]

I'm thinking maybe they should have scaled back on the project and made it for Vita instead. I mean most of the hardcore Sony fans that remember the game probably have Vitas.

 

[Vilam]

Disappointed to see they're using the track instead of the tunnel... I thought the tunnel (and Frequency in general) was superior. That said, I happily backed this!

 

[Xyber]

Don't own either a PS3 or PS4 (yet) right now, but still want this to succeed so I threw in 20 bucks.

 

[Canis lupus]

I'm thinking maybe they should have scaled back on the project and made it for Vita instead. I mean most of the hardcore Sony fans that remember the game probably have Vitas.

They should announce a Vita stretch goal in a couple days, to get those people on board.

 

[Neuromancer]

*whispers loudly*

PROJECT MORPHEUS SUPPORT

 

[Mister Zimbu]

The RB game was. A lot easier, no electronic music, etc. It was at least similar, but not quite the same. Amplitude had some note charts that would make IIDX players cringe.

Gotta call you out on the IIDX thing. I love Amplitude/Frequency with all my heart but high-level IIDX charts are worlds more difficult than anything Amplitude/Frequency had to offer. The hardest amplitude songs would probably be around level 8 or 9 in IIDX.

 

[KalBalboa]

Man, Colin on Podcast Beyond this week really did his best to put a bullet in this campaign. I'm listening right now to the show and they're talking about the Kickstarter more on the ethical implications versus, well, how cool it'd be to see the game come out.

It's a really good discussion though, overall.

 

[Neuromancer]

Great. Thanks IGN.

 

[KalBalboa]

Great. Thanks IGN.

The other hosts go up to bat for Kickstarting, though, if that helps. A big part of their talk came down to how the "middle class of gaming" needs things like Kickstarter to exist these days and how we have a way to voice our desire for these kind of games now, which was positive enough.

I really hope the Harmonix team can find more means to rally support. Gamers can be a negative bunch and don't like to back a losing team, so they need to keep momentum up.

 

[Four_Chamber]

21% of the goal reached already, not bad

Support for this has kinda flatlined

I vaguely remember this game from PS2 days, don't think there's gonna be enough support for it honestly

 

[keltickennedy]

These guys just made hundreds of millions due to Viacom. Fuck em for asking for crowd-funding and thankfully this looks like it won't reach its goal.

While I sometimes have similar feelings with bigger companies going to Kickstarter looking for money, when it comes down to it, people can do whatever they want with their money. You are taking your stance by simply not funding it.

 

[KalBalboa]

I look at this as an online petition, of sorts, but one where you need to put your money where your mouth is to prove your genuine interest.

Plus, you get a copy of the game on two platforms for $15/$20.

 

[Toma]

STILL no further update on the KS campaign?

... great idea guys.

 

[KalBalboa]

STILL no further update on the KS campaign?

... great idea guys.

Noon today will mark the two day point of the campaign. Maybe they'll have a play or update later today?

 

[SwiftDeath]

I am now quite convinced it won't make it unfortunately

Would really need a lot of word of mouth in podcasts and on gaming sites to cross the gap it has to go