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[TheExplodingHead]

This is too much lol. Literally, you are all voicing the same admirably foolish optimism people felt before the Wii released. Continue to bicker amongst yourselves about how ignorant and uninformed I am, while I invest in the new Sony or Microsoft console and never end up feeling stuck in the past when they finally port Crysis 2 to the Wii U in 2016.

That's your consumer right, have fun with that.

But still, when pressed on the central rationale for why you crave a X? more powerful box, you choose not to answer. If it's for prettier graphics than just say so, nothing wrong with that. But don't trot out this foolishness about more power guaranteeing or laying the bedrock for amazing gameplay. Because we can use this gen's HD consoles as a pretty decent gauge for that, where gameplay-wise (raw mechanics and overall design philosophy) hasn't changed since the PS2/GCN/Xbox era.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

lol at you guys posting numbers when NUMBERS are what demonstrates that the Wii U isn't up to par.

"HD" aren't numbers.

What numbers do we know???

 

[lenovox1]

This is too much lol. Literally, you are all voicing the same admirably foolish optimism people felt before the Wii released. Continue to bicker amongst yourselves about how ignorant and uninformed I am, while I invest in the new Sony or Microsoft console and never end up feeling stuck in the past when they finally port Crysis 2 to the Wii U in 2016.

So your opinion on the matter is, "I don't like Nintendo or the games they make." How does that relate to the original "doomed" assertion you made.

 

[marc^o^]

Depends how you classify the games industry. Nintendo have lost touch with certain parts of it compared to Sony and Microsoft and will be heavily threatened in others by Apple.

I know 3 things: more kids than ever love Nintendo, kids grow up, and there are new kids every year. That's a sane foundation to build a future.

What Nintendo is extremely good at these days is to build core games like Kid Icarus or Mario Land, that can be as appreciated by gamers as by 6 years old children. Nobody in the industry does this as good as Nintendo, and as long as they keep perfecting this approach, they will be untouchable. Time will play for them.

 

[AceBandage]

On the other side, I'd note that claiming Wii's success in comparison to the GameCube doesn't make a lot of sense past the superficial total sales/market share on which most of you are focusing. Those number break down pretty quickly -- I'm guessing -- once you look at market segments.

Clearly they were successful with their DS and Wii approach, but I'd conduct some serious market research before stating that either was necessarily more successful than the GameCube in specific target market segments to which most of you belong.

The DS clearly was, considering it got mainline versions of games and a host of new great selling IPs. And the 3DS seems to be following that trend.

The Wii is debatable in that area. It was certainly successful for Nintendo and for some third parties, but it was also kind of left to die early on.

 

[Medalion]

People who resort to "lol" in their defense, is a nervous laugh because they know they don't have a good enough defense, so they just act like y'all is crazy cuz you don't think like I do, I won't bother to explain myself proper.

 

[madmackem]

activison not on wii u lol, when was the last time they werent on a console?, as if they would pass up the money.

 

[lenovox1]

On the other side, I'd note that claiming Wii's success in comparison to the GameCube doesn't make a lot of sense past the superficial total sales/market share on which most of you are focusing. Those number break down pretty quickly -- I'm guessing -- once you look at market segments.

Clearly they were successful with their DS and Wii approach, but I'd conduct some serious market research before stating that either was necessarily more successful than the GameCube in specific target market segments to which most of you belong.

That wouldn't need that kind of research. You'd just need to look at software sales numbers.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

This is too much lol. Literally, you are all voicing the same admirably foolish optimism people felt before the Wii released. Continue to bicker amongst yourselves about how ignorant and uninformed I am, while I invest in the new Sony or Microsoft console and never end up feeling stuck in the past when they finally port Crysis 2 to the Wii U in 2016.

I'll be damned if I ever play a Crytek game in a console. Nintendo hardware is for those who want to experience the best level design in the industry, if want graphics I look at Nvidia or AMD.

 

[ProXimity]

The industry of video games, is the only way you can classify it...
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you implying that Nintendo is losing its foothold because the Wii and DS sold to a wide variety of people?





Man, you should have quit when you were ahead. About 10 posts ago.

p.s. also "lol"

So your opinion on the matter is, "I don't like Nintendo or the games they make." How does that relate to the original "doomed" assertion you made.

Consoles I owned in order (with PC throughout):
NES
N64
GCN
Xbox
Xbox 360
PS3

I may have grown up loving Nintendo products, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be a blind consumer and just purchase their newest console cause their name's on it (hence why I made the switch).

 

[legend166]

This is too much lol. Literally, you are all voicing the same admirably foolish optimism people felt before the Wii released. Continue to bicker amongst yourselves about how ignorant and uninformed I am, while I invest in the new Sony or Microsoft console and never end up feeling stuck in the past when they finally port Crysis 2 to the Wii U in 2016.

I feel like you've been living in some alternate universe whereby the Wii didn't sell 95 million consoles and become Nintendo's most successful platform of all time.

I don't understand what is going on.

 

[AceBandage]

Ok, how would you classify the video game industry?
I'm dying to know this answer.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

If that's true about Activision that's pretty bad news indeed.

pretty big understatement, had it been true. glad they are.

 

[PantherLotus]

The DS clearly was, considering it got mainline versions of games and a host of new great selling IPs. And the 3DS seems to be following that trend.

The Wii is debatable in that area. It was certainly successful for Nintendo and for some third parties, but it was also kind of left to die early on.

Yeah, I don't have the research to back me up, but there's little doubt about popular perception: the cost of going blue ocean (which wasn't really blue ocean but w/e) for them was that it cannibalized their existing red ocean markets.

I don't think the damage was permanent, since Nintendo looks like it's following the Disney model (recruit 'em young), but I don't think anyone can ignore the line in the sand Nintendo drew somewhere around the GC era that said something like "we are not aiming exclusively at teenage boys anymore."

 

[IrishNinja]

I want to slam my face into an active chainsaw right now.

it would've been a more decisive action than the slow mental death your subsequent posts call for

 

[AceBandage]

Yeah, I don't have the research to back me up, but there's little doubt about popular perception: the cost of going blue ocean (which wasn't really blue ocean but w/e) for them was that it cannibalized their existing red ocean markets.

I don't think the damage was permanent, since Nintendo looks like it's following the Disney model (recruit 'em young), but I don't think anyone can ignore the line in the sand Nintendo drew somewhere around the GC era that said something like "we are not aiming exclusively at teenage boys anymore."

Were they ever?
The NES was marketed as a "Family Machine"
I mean, the closest they came to that was the "Now you're playing with super power" crap on the SNES.

 

[toddhunter]

The industry of video games, is the only way you can classify it...
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you implying that Nintendo is losing its foothold because the Wii and DS sold to a wide variety of people?

Yes. A foothold is just that, the base to which Nintendo has been used to over the years. The reality now is you have what you might term the 'hard core', 'populaist gamers', the 'casual' and the 'mobile' segments. I don't think it is as simple to call them all the 'video game industry' with one set of strategies and comparative measures of success. It is all just too diverse now.

What they have now is something quite different with the Wii. Based on profits and sales, this is a pretty smart move, but the wii didn't really compete with Apple, and the Wii U will. I wouldn't necessarily back against Nintendo, they have seen such problems before, but it certainly will not be an easy ride. From what I have seen of the Wii U so far (which is very little!) there may well be a problem with Nintendo losing focus and trying to recapture too much, and in doing so, lose their current competitive advantage and weaken their position overall.

 

[qq more]

When you're a company and you're consistently losing your foothold on the industry with each passing generation of consoles, um... yeah, you're doomed.

Seriously question:

What on Earth made you believe that? I mean, I'm unsure of how the Wii U will do but have you like... ever looked at the Wii/DS sales and the recent 3DS sales? It completely contradicts with what you've just said.

 

[MontTrain]

I feel like you've been living in some alternate universe whereby the Wii didn't sell 95 million consoles and become Nintendo's most successful platform of all time.

I don't understand what is going on.

But will lightening strike twice? Will the majority that bought a Wii pick up the successor. The compelling reason of why people bought the Wii was a different or more friendly gaming experience to the HD twins and it became its expanded market. Have they all moved on is the question.

 

[AceBandage]

Yes. A foothold is just that, the base to which Nintendo has been used to over the years. The reality now is you have what you might term the 'hard core', 'populaist gamers', the 'casual' and the 'mobile' segments. I don't think it is as simple to call them all the 'video game industry' with one set of strategies and comparative measures of success. It is all just too diverse now.

What they have now is something quite different with the Wii. Based on profits and sales, this is a pretty smart move, but the wii didn't really compete with Apple, and the Wii U will. I wouldn't necessarily back against Nintendo, they have seen such problems before, but it certainly will not be an easy ride.

Now more than they already are, though.
They aren't competing with Apple like they are with MS and Sony. They aren't going to entice people to buy a Wii U over an iPad. It's not designed like one and will not function like one. It is a video game machine first and foremost.

As for the "segments' of the industry, I think it's a load of bunk, since then you're just talking opinions and semantics.

But will lightening strike twice? Will the majority that bought a Wii pick up the successor. The compelling reason of why people bought the Wii was a different or more friendly gaming experience to the HD twins and it became its expanded market. Have they all moved on is the question.

Here's the thing, they don't need (and likely won't) get the same numbers they saw with the Wii. But in all reality, neither will the PS4 and Durango.
It's very unlikely we'll see any home console approach 100 million this generation, as the userbase will likely be more evenly distributed.

 

[GCX]

But will lightening strike twice? Will the majority that bought a Wii pick up the successor. The compelling reason of why people bought the Wii was a different gaming experience to the HD twins and the expanded market. Have they all moved on is the question.

It's pretty hard to say since we still don't really know any goddamn thing about WiiU besides the controller.

 

[PantherLotus]

That wouldn't need that kind of research. You'd just need to look at software sales numbers.

Knowing your target audience includes past sales performance, certainly, but there's a bit more to it than looking at software sales.

Were they ever?
The NES was marketed as a "Family Machine"
I mean, the closest they came to that was the "Now you're playing with super power" crap on the SNES.

Fantastic point, and I agree. Though the N64 campaign, from what I remember, was clearly targeting the boys that grew up with the NES and now (then) fully expected some super-ULTRA pre-rendered stuff. So while the NES was the family-computer, and the SNES was more of that, the N64 seemed like it was a console trying to grow up with its customers and a direct shot at the SEGA ads (at teenage boys) running the previous generation.

It's pretty clear that Nintendo never tried that again.

 

[freddy]

Man, you should have quit when you were ahead. About 10 posts ago.

He was never ahead.

 

[marc^o^]

But will lightening strike twice? Will the majority that bought a Wii pick up the successor. The compelling reason of why people bought the Wii was a different gaming experience to the HD twins and the expanded market. Have they all moved on is the question.

People will go crazy when they discover they can put their balance board from under the couch to the bathroom, and use the tablet to get their weight statistics.

You know some of them will!

 

[legend166]

I think not having Activision support would be a huge loss not because of the games Activision make, but because it would show the attitude that third parties are taking towards the system.

Activision's actually output these days is really quite small. Their 2012 output consists of Call of Duty, Skylanders, Prototype 2, and a bunch of licenced games. According to this Wikipedia page they will be releasing nine titles in 2012. It's not much.

Obviously not having Call of Duty would be a big blow for Nintendo's attempt to go back after the 16-35 male demograhic, but the Wii got by without any real versions of those games so it's not a death knell.

But If Activision were not supporting it, you can bet several other publishers would be leaning that way as well. Because if there's one thing the video game industry is good at, it's incredibly stupid group-think.

Anyway, I don't think it's true anyway because it makes no sense.

 

[AceBandage]

He was never ahead.

Right, and he only has 6 posts in this thread.
;P

 

[ProXimity]

Yeah, I don't have the research to back me up, but there's little doubt about popular perception: the cost of going blue ocean (which wasn't really blue ocean but w/e) for them was that it cannibalized their existing red ocean markets.

I don't think the damage was permanent, since Nintendo looks like it's following the Disney model (recruit 'em young), but I don't think anyone can ignore the line in the sand Nintendo drew somewhere around the GC era that said something like "we are not aiming exclusively at teenage boys anymore."

Or at all. And which individual demographic contributes the most to the consumption of popular media (games, music, movies)? Teenage boys.

95 million units... again, where's the consistent software performance in the market? It's simply not there on the level that the 360 and PS3 move titles. A development team's debate about what console to make a game for shouldn't generally exclude the Wii, which it does today (note the very high volume of multiplat titles that remain unreleased on the Wii).

edit: ^btw that's indicant of declining influence no matter how you look at it.

 

[marc^o^]

Or at all. And which individual demographic contributes the most to the consumption of popular media (games, music, movies)? Teenage boys.

95 million units... again, where's the consistent software performance in the market? It's simply not there on the level that the 360 and PS3 move titles. A development team's debate about what console to make a game for shouldn't generally exclude the Wii, which it does today (note the very high volume of multiplat titles that remain unreleased on the Wii).

Wii is pirated to the core.

 

[AceBandage]

Or at all. And which individual demographic contributes the most to the consumption of popular media (games, music, movies)? Teenage boys.

95 million units... again, where's the consistent software performance in the market? It's simply not there on the level that the 360 and PS3 move titles. A development team's debate about what console to make a game for shouldn't generally exclude the Wii, which it does today (note the very high volume of multiplat titles that remain unreleased on the Wii).

Wrong.
The average age of video gamers is 37.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Or at all. And which individual demographic contributes the most to the consumption of popular media (games, music, movies)? Teenage boys.

I think the average videogame player is around 37.

Fuck you, Ace.

 

[KevinCow]

This is too much lol. Literally, you are all voicing the same admirably foolish optimism people felt before the Wii released. Continue to bicker amongst yourselves about how ignorant and uninformed I am, while I invest in the new Sony or Microsoft console and never end up feeling stuck in the past when they finally port Crysis 2 to the Wii U in 2016.

Did they make it illegal to own both a Wii U and the next Xbox and Playstation?

I must've missed that announcement.

That sucks. It was cool when buying a console wasn't a mutually exclusive decision. I liked being able to own all of them so I could experience the best of all worlds.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

Consoles I owned in order (with PC throughout):
NES
N64
GCN
Xbox
Xbox 360
PS3

I may have grown up loving Nintendo products, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be a blind consumer and just purchase their newest console cause their name's on it (hence why I made the switch).

Just a personal question, why is it exactly that you would be a "blind consumer" by purchasing a Wii U?

Is a certain baseline of power mandatory for your money, and if that baseline isn't met it's a deal breaker? Why do you place such precedence on the power of a console. And why draw this line in the sand now and take this position against Nintendo now, especially when you know absolutely nothing about the final specs.

 

[AceBandage]

I think the average videogame player is around 37.

Fuck you, Ace.

Beaten. With a link. BAM!
*victory dance*

 

[Little Green Yoda]

The Wii sold a lot of units because of the Wii-mote, not because of its games.

By most accounts, Move is superior technology to the Wiimote(+). Move must have sold gangbusters, right?

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Beaten. With a link. BAM!
*victory dance*

I never have links, I'm a sloppy/lazy poster.

 

[Hiltz]

I don't know, man. Wii had some big advantages by taking everyone by surprise like it did. Quite frankly, I'd be more happy if Wii U sells less than the Wii, but receives more third-party support and an improved online service. It would do Nintendo some good to improve its reputation with core gamers and improve its relationship with third-parties by doing more to catter to their reasonable demands even if it comes at the cost of selling less hardware.

In any case, Wii U has some big shoes to fill if it attempts to come close to selling as well as the Wii did. After all, not even the 360 and PS3 have been able to it and they've got longer lifecycles. Come to think of it, PS3 hasn't even sold half of what the PS2 has.

 

[AceBandage]

I never have links, I'm a sloppy/lazy poster.

And that is why I am the master, and you are the student.

 

[ProXimity]

Wrong.
The average age of video gamers is 37.

That's because anyone with Fruit Ninja can and does rightfully call themselves a gamer. If you polled the majority of game development companies and asked them what their target demo was, they would not say 37 y/o males.

 

[AceBandage]

That's because anyone with Fruit Ninja can and does rightfully call themselves a gamer. If you polled the majority of game development companies and asked them what their target demo was, they would not say 37 y/o males.

So... game developers are teenage boys themselves?
This is shocking news. Aren't there child labor laws?!

Hint: Most developers make games that they want to play. They don't make games for 13 year old kids.

 

[marc^o^]

That's because anyone with Fruit Ninja can and does rightfully call themselves a gamer. If you polled the majority of game development companies and asked them what their target demo was, they would not say 37 y/o males.

You are spectacular.

 

[Grymm]

Edit - lol nah nm I wouldn't wish that on anyone

 

[toddhunter]

Now more than they already are, though.
They aren't competing with Apple like they are with MS and Sony. They aren't going to entice people to buy a Wii U over an iPad. It's not designed like one and will not function like one. It is a video game machine first and foremost.

As for the "segments' of the industry, I think it's a load of bunk, since then you're just talking opinions and semantics.

No. The difference between selling Angry Birds and Call of Duty is not 'opinions and semantics'. You can call the types of games whatever you like, but the reality is each company will need a different strategy when competing for the people who buy these games.

Clearly Nintendo do not have a foothold in the market of call of duties or Skyrim. Can they reclaim it? Yes but there is a lot of work to do, and MS and Sony will not give it up cheaply.

Nintendo absolutely will be competing with Apple (no matter how much people don't want to admit it), MS and Sony in the next generation. Consider who they are wanting to sell their console too. To me they are trying to position themselves somewhere in between the other players. This is a risky move unless they delivery a quality value proposition. The Wii had a pretty free run and was a glorious success. However Nintendo will not be so lucky this time.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

And that is why I am the master, and you are the student.

 

[AceBandage]

SWEEP THE LEG!

 

[GCX]

That's because anyone with Fruit Ninja can and does rightfully call themselves a gamer. If you polled the majority of game development companies and asked them what their target demo was, they would not say 37 y/o males.

If majority of game devs are already targeting the teenage boy demo according to your factual research, wouldn't it make sense to make games for a demo that has less competition?

 

[Redford]

Big factor will be the pack in software they are necessarily going to include.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

And that is why I am the master, and you are the student.

Much to learn, you still have.

 

[faceless007]

That's because anyone with Fruit Ninja can and does rightfully call themselves a gamer. If you polled the majority of game development companies and asked them what their target demo was, they would not say 37 y/o males.

You're right, they would say 15-50 year olds, especially women.

Oh, are you somehow under the illusion that that there are more AAA hardcore dudebro developers than there are iOS and Facebook game devs?

 

[lenovox1]

Or at all. And which individual demographic contributes the most to the consumption of popular media (games, music, movies)? Teenage boys.

95 million units... again, where's the consistent software performance in the market? It's simply not there on the level that the 360 and PS3 move titles. A development team's debate about what console to make a game for shouldn't generally exclude the Wii, which it does today (note the very high volume of multiplat titles that remain unreleased on the Wii).

edit: ^btw that's indicant of declining influence no matter how you look at it.

It's obvious you don't really pay attention to either the video game market or beyond as both of your statements are false.

You've already been hit over the head with the first one, but as far as we know, out of the three, Wii has pushed the most software overall. Third party performance aside, until recently Nintendo barely pushed a Wii game that didn't shift however many units they could press and ship.

It's like you see the Wii from a completely different lens than everybody else does/did, and you're using those lenses to cloud up your judgment of the Wii U.

 

[legend166]

But will lightening strike twice? Will the majority that bought a Wii pick up the successor. The compelling reason of why people bought the Wii was a different or more friendly gaming experience to the HD twins and it became its expanded market. Have they all moved on is the question.

I don't know. Maybe? Maybe not. It depends on what games get released on the system. And we really have no idea what games are being released on the system, except for the obvious Nintendo releases.

This is why people are completely missing the point about the whole power debate. If the Wii U is so underpowered that it harms support for the system, that's a big problem. If it's underpowered to the point where the multiplatform releases simply don't look as good on the Wii U, that means practically nothing. The vast majority of people do not care about the graphical performance of their consoles. It just doesn't matter. Not even the vast majority of PS3/360 owners. They bought millions upon millions of copies of Call of Duty, and that game runs at 600p. The importance of graphical capabilities being important to the consumer is waaaaaaaaaay overstated on GAF.

As I said, where it does matter is if it effects support. Because that means there are less games. And that's what the consumer sees - this console has this game I want, but this one does not. They don't see 720p VS 1080p, or 60FPS vs 30FPS.

That's why the Wii faltered in the last couple of years. It wasn't because it got dated, or because it was seen as underpowered by consumers. It's because it didn't have many appealing games released for it.

So when it comes to the Wii U and its sales prospects, at the moment I can genuinely throw up my hands and say I don't know how it will perform. I do thing, however, that people are completely underselling the attraction of Nintendo's own software, which is more popular than ever. Mario Kart, 3D Mario, 2D Mario, Donkey Kong, the Wii series, and to a lesser extent Kirby and Zelda just had a very successful generation, and they will be a draw for the Wii U.