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Angry Video Game Nerd
- Thread starter demi
- Start date
140.85 said:
is this going to turn into an argument about the word "objectively"
do you honestly read the posts that criticize aspects of the game? that's fine if you love the game, i think it's pretty ok it's just really overrated, but good lord the way avgn disregarded obvious faults, whenever he picks other games to pieces for seemingly minor shit (see cv3), it's kind of funny that he let nostalgia get the best of him that way. :lol
NameGenerated
Who paid you to grab Dr. Pavel?
Castlevania 64 was the first Castlevania game I played. I was pretty young and I remember renting it, then hating it so it turned me off of the entire series until I got SOTN for XBLA. IV looked pretty good in that video though.
flintstryker
Banned
I was totally agreeing with you until this :/ man fuck you!Y2Kev said:
The Hermit
Member
Lindsay said:
Do it. One of the best soundtrack in gamming ever, and I am serious.
A Black Falcon
Member
Now, as I said earlier, I love Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness for N64. It's been at least a year since I played much of this game... so it's great that that video got me to go play it again. Picked up from a file with Cornell late in the Clock Tower, near the end of the game, and I played it to the end. And yes, the game is definitely awesome. Great graphics in high res mode (apart from the close draw distance, the game is very impressive looking!), great controls (just remember to hold down A the whole time while you're jumping, that's the key to making it work), good music, great platforming challenges (as I said, the Clock Tower is an awesome level), awesome boss fights, a reasonably interesting plot that makes you want to keep playing the other modes even after you finish the main one (Cornell's)... there's really not much bad I can say. The final boss fights are awesome, and Dracula actually killed me several times before I figured him out. Unlike most of the bosses in the game you couldn't just go into wolf mode and wipe him out in seconds. The first form is awesome, and there's a definite atmosphere to the fight as Dracula teleports around and attacks you. His second form particularly was even trickier. The wolf power definitely helped once I figured out how to not get hit, and when I finally did manage to get some hits on him in wolf mode he went down fast. Very satisfying.
Oh, as for the camera, it does follow you a bit slowly, but just press R and it immediately centers right behind you. I'd say that the camera is not a problem in this game. If you want to see where you're facing just press R. You can hold the button down to have the camera stick right to your back as you turn, too; normally this isn't good because the camera then turns too fast, but sometimes, like with the fight against Dracula's first form, it can be useful.
I will say that the complaint about targetting not being equal to OoT is accurate, however. As I said in my last post about LoD, it's not. And yes, playing with the guy without a ranged weapon isn't much fun. The game's great anyway, as the other three characters do have ranged weapons. Henry even uses a gun...
So yeah, I'd highly recommend the game to anyone who can still enjoy N64 3d platformers. I think I'm definitely going to be playing it some more soon.
I also played a few levels of Super Castlevania IV just now. And again, yeah... exceptional music, great graphics, great controls (sure, Simon is slow, but he makes up for it other ways), great levels, nice features like the hooks to hang from (this should have stayed in the series too!), etc. Just an amazing, amazing game.
Oh, as for the camera, it does follow you a bit slowly, but just press R and it immediately centers right behind you. I'd say that the camera is not a problem in this game. If you want to see where you're facing just press R. You can hold the button down to have the camera stick right to your back as you turn, too; normally this isn't good because the camera then turns too fast, but sometimes, like with the fight against Dracula's first form, it can be useful.
I will say that the complaint about targetting not being equal to OoT is accurate, however. As I said in my last post about LoD, it's not. And yes, playing with the guy without a ranged weapon isn't much fun. The game's great anyway, as the other three characters do have ranged weapons. Henry even uses a gun...
So yeah, I'd highly recommend the game to anyone who can still enjoy N64 3d platformers. I think I'm definitely going to be playing it some more soon.
I also played a few levels of Super Castlevania IV just now. And again, yeah... exceptional music, great graphics, great controls (sure, Simon is slow, but he makes up for it other ways), great levels, nice features like the hooks to hang from (this should have stayed in the series too!), etc. Just an amazing, amazing game.
Conrad Link
Member
Its nice how the N64 CVs get some love around here, I really liked them.
Azure Dream
Member
El_Victor said:
It's like the problem with Zero Punctuation sometimes, it's not nearly as funny when it's simply wrong. Most gamers would try things like hitting all the buttons, dying to reset, etc. And despite what that says, he's not showing himself as playing badly most of the time, just that he's having a hard time. We're not supposed to be watching an idiot play the games, just an angry nerd. So that doesn't apply just on the off times he goes out of his way to complain about something simple, and it doesn't otherwise fit with the tone of the videos.
Still, I appreciated the Castlevania nostalgia. IV was a game I only saw in pictures and videos until I bought the VC version, but it's definitely has a rich feel to it.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
What are some of the faults of Castlevania IV?
My only real beef with it is that it's a bit on the easy side compared to the other games in the series(which might be one reason why it's so popular).
Otherwise, I can't find any faults. But I'd love to see what the naysayers think.
My only real beef with it is that it's a bit on the easy side compared to the other games in the series(which might be one reason why it's so popular).
Otherwise, I can't find any faults. But I'd love to see what the naysayers think.
A Black Falcon
Member
Y2Kev said:
I'm a big fan of the N64, I'm used to N64 framerates by now... you're right that the framerate in high res mode is a bit low, but it's still playable, I thought. It's pretty consistent, it's not jumping up and down. Framerates which are fluctuating a lot are worse than ones that are steady but low, really. You just get used to it eventually.
SonicMegaDrive said:
Go read some of the posts on the previous page or see this thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378099
I don't agree with the people who dislike it either, obviously.
A Black Falcon
Member
Zep said:
Yeah, that's the one thing that I'd definitely say Castlevania (N64) has over Legacy of Darkness, the second version's intro just isn't quite as cool and drops the violin part... that is a great intro though, certainly.
Davey Cakes
Member
Naysayers think that the game is completely broken. That's about it.SonicMegaDrive said:
Really, the only sensible complaints about SCVIV are about the game's easiness. I'm not going to say it's broken or anything (with the eight-way whipping and everything), but the game definitely toned down the difficulty overall in comparison to its predecessors. That's why it probably makes a good "first Castlevania" for anyone trying to get into the series.
It also didn't have the split paths that CVIII and Rondo had. That can be seen as a flaw, but when you consider that the game is a re-telling, it's not so bad. Besides, as it is, the game has over twice as many levels as the original.
When it comes to Super Castlevania, the good outweighs the bad. The much-improved controls (whipping, jumping, secondary weapons being relegated to the R-button), the great sense of atmosphere, the soundtrack, etc. It's a very tight and enjoyable package.
xs_mini_neo
Banned
C64 is not as bad as he made it out to be. He really should have played the Legacy of darkness version, since that was the good, full/fixed version. C64 was just a rush job. It was the beginning of the Konami Kojima fellatathon, after all. He also should have played Rondo of Blood and RAGED about how we should have got that version instead of the bad port. AVGN is slipping.
TheCardPlayer
Likes to have "friends" around to "play cards" with
jjasper said:
Bland? It's an epic trek to Dracula's castle! You fight through forests, caverns, stables,
through a room!
A Black Falcon
Member
linkboy said:
I very much wish that they'd have made another 3d platformer Castlevania, for sure... but unfortunately, in Iga's infinite wisdom, all we get out of 3d Castlevania this or last generation are hack-and-slash action-RPGs. Now I don't hate that kind of game or something, but I like 3d platformers more... and N64 Castlevania was good. It'd have been great to see more along those lines.
cartman414 said:
You're putting too much weight onto branching paths and multiple characters, then, I think. That and you have a dislike I'll never understand for 8-direction whipping...
True, at least it didn't get rid of EVERYTHING added in SCIV. It's just that they shouldn't have removed what they did at all. But yes, at least it did have that.
I talked about this last time. You're defending bad controls by saying "but I like it harder, it makes it too easy when the controls aren't awful!" And I'm saying that that kind of design decision is terrible design, and games should not be handicapped with bad controls just because the designers can't think of any other way to make it challenging. It just leads to a great deal of frustration and annoyance that should never have had to happen.
But really, better controls are better, period. It sounds kind of lame but it's true. I mean, it's not a complete deal-breaker or something, there are lots of great games with limited controls. But imagine them with better controls and it's hard to imagine them being worse as a result...
Take Resident Evil 2 for example, the N64 version has an N64-exclusive "3d mode" in the movement controls options which gives the game true analog controls, unlike any other version of a classic-style Resident Evil game. Does the option make the game worse? No, not really. I mean, sure, you eventually adjust to usual RE controls. But that option shows what those games would be like with true analog controls... it's still great. Just a little less annoying, and maybe slightly easier.
Well here I agree at least, the fact that no Metroidvania has 8-direction attacking with normal weapons is completely insane. What the heck were they thinking? It should be there as an upgrade you get eventually!
No, that was sarcasm. I thought that you'd come up with some way to justify not disliking Bloodlines as much, and indeed you did... I don't agree though, while Bloodlines is a decent to good game, the graphics, sound, gameplay, controls, and most importantly continue feature are all far worse than CVIV, and most of them are worse than Rondo as well. I haven't played much of SNES Dracula X so I can't compare it to that one, but of the three 16-bit Castlevanias I have played it's well behind in third.
What, about how Gradius III is probably my favorite Gradius game and I don't mind that it's a little longer than some of the other games? True... I did think of that when writing this post, actually.
I don't always like longer games more or something, though, one of my other favorite Gradius games is Gradius: The Interstellar Assault for the Game Boy, which is quite short and somewhat easy. If a game is good and engaging the whole way through it doesn't matter that much how long it is, particularly if it has replay value of some kind if it's short. Given how many times I've played The Interstellar Assault (it's a lot), I'd say that that qualifies there, for me at least.
So sure, longer isn't always better.But still, Castlevania games (other than the NES cart versions of the first one) all have saving of some kind, so I don't think this matters very much. I mean, games now are orders of magnitude longer than SCIV. So it has 12 levels. So? They aren't that long, and every one of them is very well designed and interesting. Bloodlines may only have six, but they're ridiculously long... that game feels too long not because it has too many levels, but because with that stupid credit limit and the very long levels finishing a single level without crippling your whole game with using the credits early is a major accomplishment, really, for me at least. I don't think I've gotten past the third level without using up too many credits to be able to finish or make writing down the password worthwhile...
But anyway, whether you are having fun is more important than how long a game is. Someone may not finish even a very short game if it's no fun. Of course length comes into the picture for issues like whether it drags on, gets repetitive, etc, but SCIV doesn't do those things at all, so that's not an issue. I think here it's just about whether the player likes the game...
True. They obviously just wanted a Genesis Castlevania game, so they made one, whether or not it actually matched up to the others.
And now we're back to where we started, with me just having no idea how you could dislike 8-direction whipping so much.
I mean sure, it's fun to play as Maria. No question. And yeah, Simon in SCIV does control somewhat stiff. But he makes up for it with versatility, with the great 8-direction whip and the occasionally useful 'hold the button down and flail it around' mode. Maria's probably more powerful than Simon, as I said, but it's definitely plenty fun to play as him. I guess this is a matter of opinion, but I just can't quite see why ow 8-direction whipping, a control improvement, could make you dislike it so much...
Yeah.
A Black Falcon said:
well, due to the enemy placement, it's the thing that makes the game way too easy. the field depth coupled with the 8 directional whip pretty much made it where you could hit enemies from any point of the screen, rarely resorting to using a subweapon, before even encountering them directly. the improvements to jumping, and being able to jump on stairs are very welcome improvements, however, i think the ability to JUMP OFF STAIRS (like in Drac X, in CV4 you can only drop off of them, there's a huge difference) and being able to pick up your old subweapon are much more important than the eight directional whip.
more controls options doesn't automatically translate to better controls. Drac X has a more limited control-set, but Richter moves just as fluidly and you have control over your jump. the crouch walk and eight directional whip is to super cv4 as the slide and charge shot are to megaman 4.
Gradius III's length doesn't bother me, what bothers me is how fucking boring the game is in comparison to every other Gradius. (except IV, of course) the slow down, the minimal enemies and fire are screen, yawn. Gradius V and Gaiden are about the same length on a one-credit playthrough and are much more engaging, have better level design and pacing.
A Black Falcon
Member
andymcc said:
Which ones let you actually jump off stairs?
As for picking up your old subweapon, yeah, it'd be nice, but that's not a big deal, you can just avoid ones you don't want.
Anyway, yes, it does let you hit many parts of the screen. That is true. We obviously just disagree about whether that's a bad thing or not.
The slide is from Mega Man 3, and every Mega Man game after 3 had the slide and every one after 4 had the charge shot, so I don't think those are perfect comparisons... that and 4 is my favorite one of the NES games, so yeah. I definitely think the Mega Man series was improved by adding the charge shot, something just seems missing in the earlier ones without it...
But yes, having control over your jump is good. A big improvement from SCIV that they kept, certainly. But why not keep the whip improvement as well?
First -- I mean SNES Gradius III, not the incredibly difficult arcade version. I can't get anywhere in that one...
Anyway though, I haven't played much of Gradius II, IV, or Gaiden; haven't played more than a level or two of those three. (III kind of feels like an improved version of II... but I did play III before II.) I have played or do have I (NES mostly), III (SNES), The Interstellar Assault (GB), Galaxies (GBA), and V (PS2). And yes, Gradius V is absolutely amazing, a stunning game by any standards. I think it might throw a bit too much at you too quickly though, did they really need to put a bossrush in the second level? Add a few more levels or something and spread it out a bit more... having a challenging bossrush in just the second level really isn't the kind of thing older Gradius games would do, from my experience. Apart from Interstellar Assault they all have at least eight levels as well. But that's the Treasure influence I guess. I mean Ikaruga ia amazing, one of the best, but it also does things like that.
Anyway, I did love Gradius III on SNES, great graphics and music, good level designs, some challenge but not oppressive difficulty... it's just a fun game. Sure, it might not be the best game in the series, it's hard to say with games I like this much, but it's definitely really, really good. The slowdown I don't mind, it makes things a bit easier. It's a lot easier to dodge the bullets when it's slow. Oh, and I also really love the Formation Option and Shrink shield option. Best customization options ever in the series. I was very happy to finally see a version of the Formation Option return in Gradius V, I use that ship type every time.
Oh, and as far as pacing, etc, I know I keep repeating it, but I think that The Interstellar Assault did some very interesting things that it's too bad the series never came back to. It gets the pacing just about right. It has little cutscenes between the levels showing your ship going from one area to the next, an actual intro and ending (simple and short, but enough to show you what's going on), a little twist at the end of the first level, only one boss in the whole five level game who uses a straight "Shoot the Core" design (sort of two, but not really I'd say...), and none of those segments in space against the little ships between levels, you just go straight to the stage. I think it does have better pacing than Gradius III. It's pretty easy even on Hard, particularly when you've played it many times over as I have, but it's a pretty good game, definitely one of the best shmups on the original GB. Gradius Galaxies impressed me much less, it's a much longer and harder game, but I don't like it nearly as much as The Interstellar Assault. (The music's not that great there either... Interstellar Assualt has some pretty good music for the original GB.) But anyway, Gradius is kind of off topic... though I imagine he might cover it sometime, it was a pretty popular NES game. The first one is still a pretty great game too, I'd say...
Off topic for a moment.
MM2 is the best MM game. No charge, no slide.
MM9 is the second best MM game. No charge, no slide.
Back on topic.
Super Castlevania IV is an awesome game. No RPG shit, no branching paths, no alternate paths, but sweet graphics, music, and game play mixed with pitch perfect old school castlevania controls.
Dracula X and Bloodlines aren't terrible, but they also don't have that certain something that SC IV has.
Relating to the off topic:
People like the sense of power charging up gives them in MM4, without realizing that by adding in charge the game makes enemies tougher, and you gotta slow down your pace to charge. No longer is it run and gun it's run, avoid, charge, shoot, maybe charge again, shoot, start charging, move on.
It really isn't until the later X and Zero games where charging and run and gun like a madman really became a good fit for the play. X with the relaxed charge times and Zero with the multiple weapons.
CV IV and Dracula X and Bloodlines is kinda like that. The later two have more options, more to do, but miss out on what makes the old school revival game so much fun.
MM2 is the best MM game. No charge, no slide.
MM9 is the second best MM game. No charge, no slide.
Back on topic.
Super Castlevania IV is an awesome game. No RPG shit, no branching paths, no alternate paths, but sweet graphics, music, and game play mixed with pitch perfect old school castlevania controls.
Dracula X and Bloodlines aren't terrible, but they also don't have that certain something that SC IV has.
Relating to the off topic:
People like the sense of power charging up gives them in MM4, without realizing that by adding in charge the game makes enemies tougher, and you gotta slow down your pace to charge. No longer is it run and gun it's run, avoid, charge, shoot, maybe charge again, shoot, start charging, move on.
It really isn't until the later X and Zero games where charging and run and gun like a madman really became a good fit for the play. X with the relaxed charge times and Zero with the multiple weapons.
CV IV and Dracula X and Bloodlines is kinda like that. The later two have more options, more to do, but miss out on what makes the old school revival game so much fun.
A Black Falcon said:Which ones let you actually jump off stairs?
As for picking up your old subweapon, yeah, it'd be nice, but that's not a big deal, you can just avoid ones you don't want.
Anyway, yes, it does let you hit many parts of the screen. That is true. We obviously just disagree about whether that's a bad thing or not.
The slide is from Mega Man 3, and every Mega Man game after 3 had the slide and every one after 4 had the charge shot, so I don't think those are perfect comparisons... that and 4 is my favorite one of the NES games, so yeah. I definitely think the Mega Man series was improved by adding the charge shot, something just seems missing in the earlier ones without it...
But yes, having control over your jump is good. A big improvement from SCIV that they kept, certainly. But why not keep the whip improvement as well?
First -- I mean SNES Gradius III, not the incredibly difficult arcade version. I can't get anywhere in that one...
Anyway though, I haven't played much of Gradius II, IV, or Gaiden; haven't played more than a level or two of those three. (III kind of feels like an improved version of II... but I did play III before II.) I have played or do have I (NES mostly), III (SNES), The Interstellar Assault (GB), Galaxies (GBA), and V (PS2). And yes, Gradius V is absolutely amazing, a stunning game by any standards. I think it might throw a bit too much at you too quickly though, did they really need to put a bossrush in the second level? Add a few more levels or something and spread it out a bit more... having a challenging bossrush in just the second level really isn't the kind of thing older Gradius games would do, from my experience. Apart from Interstellar Assault they all have at least eight levels as well. But that's the Treasure influence I guess. I mean Ikaruga ia amazing, one of the best, but it also does things like that.
Anyway, I did love Gradius III on SNES, great graphics and music, good level designs, some challenge but not oppressive difficulty... it's just a fun game. Sure, it might not be the best game in the series, it's hard to say with games I like this much, but it's definitely really, really good. The slowdown I don't mind, it makes things a bit easier. It's a lot easier to dodge the bullets when it's slow. Oh, and I also really love the Formation Option and Shrink shield option. Best customization options ever in the series. I was very happy to finally see a version of the Formation Option return in Gradius V, I use that ship type every time.
Oh, and as far as pacing, etc, I know I keep repeating it, but I think that The Interstellar Assault did some very interesting things that it's too bad the series never came back to. It has little cutscenes between the levels showing your ship going from one area to the next, an actual intro and ending (simple and short, but enough to show you what's going on), a little twist at the end of the first level, only one boss in the whole five level game who uses a straight "Shoot the Core" design (sort of two, but not really I'd say...), and none of those segments in space against the little ships between levels, you just go straight to the stage. I think it does have better pacing than Gradius III. It's pretty easy even on Hard, particularly when you've played it many times over as I have, but it's a pretty good game, definitely one of the best shmups on the original GB. Gradius Galaxies impressed me much less, it's a much longer and harder game, but I don't like it nearly as much as The Interstellar Assault. (The music's not that great there either... Interstellar Assualt has some pretty good music for the original GB.) But anyway, Gradius is kind of off topic... though I imagine he might cover it sometime, it was a pretty popular NES game. The first one is still a pretty great game too, I'd say...
Dracula X lets you actually jump off of stairs, not just simply drop off.
Sorry about the Megaman comparison I actually meant to compare it to MM3 and MM4 both. (other MM games with the slide and charge work better than MM3 and MM4.)
but, i understand what you mean with the multidirectional whip. i really don't have a problem with it in theory, its just not well-implemented to me in CV4. that's great if you enjoy it, it just ruins most stages on CV4 for me. i think that it can be properly implemented in a CV game, all it would take is the shortening of the whip. i'm not arguing for or against a multidirectional whip mechanic, i'm just saying i don't think the eight way whip was well implemented in CV4.
veering a little off-topic with gradius :
i was, of course, referring to the SNES gradius iii. which other version has the mass amounts of slow down? :lol i agree with you about the arcade version, its nearly unplayable. way too many enemies and, of course, being an old school gradius with predetermined checkpoints, when you die once, you're fucked.
slowdown is essential to many shooters, but the problem is, gradius iii is rarely chaotic whenever slowdown occurs and it happens all of the freakin' time! :lol i play a lot of bullet hell shooters and you thank your lucky stars for slow down, but, it really hampers gradius iii for me.
i think the "too much, too quickly" mentality of Gradius V is a direct result of the shooter niche leaning more and more towards the bullet-hell style. granted, gradius v isn't a bullet hell, it has elements that remind you of one. the boss-rush was to be expected of a game designed by treasure, but, even then, the game feels like a treasure game that's, for once, kept within the conventions of the genre, it doesn't try to do too much and feels like all of the fat is trimmed. (radiant silvergun, comparatively, feels bloated and has way too many uninteresting portions.)
all that being said, PLAY GRADIUS GAIDEN MAN. :lol
Himuro said:
at least the music is fuck awesome in it.
AgentOtaku
Member
I can get behind the arguement (for the few who made it) that Rondo of Blood isn't the messiah
I dunno, I played the PSP iteration (both oldschool/new) and just thought "Man, I'm sick of this" ...Hard to go back after CVIV and this retrospected reminded me of that.
I dunno, I played the PSP iteration (both oldschool/new) and just thought "Man, I'm sick of this" ...Hard to go back after CVIV and this retrospected reminded me of that.
I never owned any Nintendo system before the N64 ( after Atari I was exclusive to SEGA till the day I bought PSX -after my Saturn -then got N64 after the PS1 ) so Symphony of the Night was my first Castlevania game and still my favorite one.
I hated most of other 2D Castlevanias and the N64 games too even the remake on PSP , funny enough I really liked Castlevania Curse of Darkness ( hate me I don't care ) I think Castlevanias fans hated that game just because they wanted to hate it.
anyway after this Video , I want to try Super Castlevania 4 , it's on VC right , should I go for it ?
I hated most of other 2D Castlevanias and the N64 games too even the remake on PSP , funny enough I really liked Castlevania Curse of Darkness ( hate me I don't care ) I think Castlevanias fans hated that game just because they wanted to hate it.
anyway after this Video , I want to try Super Castlevania 4 , it's on VC right , should I go for it ?
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Eight-directional whipping isn't better control, it's just fewer restrictions. Being able to attack in only direction adds an element of strategy to the action as you are forced to plan the direction you attack from as well as needing to think about protecting your uncovered areas. Neither one is bad control. They're just different. In my opinion, the limitations of a character's ability set are what define games. Would it be "better control" if Mario could always fly without restriction in a Mario game? How about if any piece in chess could move in any direction?
I can understand if someone prefers the 8-way whipping, but it's really irritating to try to play it off like only being able to attack in two directions is bad control. It's not.
I can understand if someone prefers the 8-way whipping, but it's really irritating to try to play it off like only being able to attack in two directions is bad control. It's not.
evilromero
Member
You just turned a wrong corner. What if Mario 64 controlled like Tomb Raider? Would it be as enjoyable to explore or navigate the world? "Mario flying without restriction" wouldn't make the controls any easier. In fact it's a little harder to fly than it is run around. Control restriction theory is bullshit. RE5 would be way better without the tank controls. I don't care if you get used them them, they feel antiquated.Segata Sanshiro said:
Segata Sanshiro
Member
There's an obvious difference there. Why not make it so that every time you hit the "B" button every enemy on the screen took damage? So much better control! And Simon should be able to turn into a bat and fly around, that's much better control than simple restricted jumping!evilromero said:
For "Mario flying without restriction", I was talking about 2d Mario, being that this is a 2d Castlevania. Two-directional whipping vs eight-directional whipping is NOT a control restriction, it's an ability restriction, and without those, all you have is God Mode.
D.Lo
Member
The thing about CV4 is that the 'better' control completely changed the gameplay. Ignoring all the game's other issues (mostly just early SNES stuff), it actually made it a more 'fiddly' controlling game, less tight. Taking out enemies is more like crowd control then the precise timing required in classic 'Vania.
Rondo, Drac XX and even Bloodlines have a 'snappier' feel to the controls. Overall I think Rondo/Drac XX were the best of all worlds, as they were tighter then the NES but had just that extra bit of flexibility (like the short jump forward and the backflip). They're just tuned perfectly, while CV4 has more attack and movement options but feels sloppy. Bloodlines is somewhere in between.
I suppose some people play games to play them (ie those that enjoy the actual gameplay), and some play games to see them (those that enjoy the scenery and the experience). This is likely why there's a split of opinion on many series that change from one emphasis to another. Symphony and the IGA games fall down hard to the former, because while the characters in them move fluidly, they completely removed the challenging gameplay of Castlevania as we knew it. But to the latter type of gamer the frustration of the earlier games (ie the actual gameplay) is basically gone, and all you have to do is plow through hallways of enemies admiring the scenery and music.
Rondo, Drac XX and even Bloodlines have a 'snappier' feel to the controls. Overall I think Rondo/Drac XX were the best of all worlds, as they were tighter then the NES but had just that extra bit of flexibility (like the short jump forward and the backflip). They're just tuned perfectly, while CV4 has more attack and movement options but feels sloppy. Bloodlines is somewhere in between.
I suppose some people play games to play them (ie those that enjoy the actual gameplay), and some play games to see them (those that enjoy the scenery and the experience). This is likely why there's a split of opinion on many series that change from one emphasis to another. Symphony and the IGA games fall down hard to the former, because while the characters in them move fluidly, they completely removed the challenging gameplay of Castlevania as we knew it. But to the latter type of gamer the frustration of the earlier games (ie the actual gameplay) is basically gone, and all you have to do is plow through hallways of enemies admiring the scenery and music.
cartman414
Member
Rash said:
But with the amount of levels involved in every single playthrough, fatigue sets in. (Not to mention of course that DC and Rondo had alternate characters that added interesting playstyles to the mix.)
A Black Falcon said:
And you're putting too much weight on the stuff unique to SCV4. To call those evolutions and then call the branching paths that added extra depth gimmicks is nothing short of hyperbole.
And I just don't care for moves/movesets that allow your character to overpower enemies. (See also: Cape Mario in Super Mario World.)
Removing the 8-way whip restored the missing challenge and once again required the player to use caution and finesse. One important thing that set the old entries apart from the Metroidvanias was the importance of making do with a limited moveset, and the stuff you could do with your whip in SCV4 belonged more in a Metroidvania.
But really, better controls are better, period. It sounds kind of lame but it's true. I mean, it's not a complete deal-breaker or something, there are lots of great games with limited controls. But imagine them with better controls and it's hard to imagine them being worse as a result...
Take Resident Evil 2 for example, the N64 version has an N64-exclusive "3d mode" in the movement controls options which gives the game true analog controls, unlike any other version of a classic-style Resident Evil game. Does the option make the game worse? No, not really. I mean, sure, you eventually adjust to usual RE controls. But that option shows what those games would be like with true analog controls... it's still great. Just a little less annoying, and maybe slightly easier.
[/QUOTE]I'm as much against stiff controls as the next guy (see my complaints regarding Zelda 1's controls), but SCV4's 8-way whip is an example of too much freedom.
What, about how Gradius III is probably my favorite Gradius game and I don't mind that it's a little longer than some of the other games? True... I did think of that when writing this post, actually.
I don't always like longer games more or something, though, one of my other favorite Gradius games is Gradius: The Interstellar Assault for the Game Boy, which is quite short and somewhat easy. If a game is good and engaging the whole way through it doesn't matter that much how long it is, particularly if it has replay value of some kind if it's short. Given how many times I've played The Interstellar Assault (it's a lot), I'd say that that qualifies there, for me at least.
But still, Castlevania games (other than the NES cart versions of the first one) all have saving of some kind, so I don't think this matters very much. I mean, games now are orders of magnitude longer than SCIV. So it has 12 levels. So? They aren't that long, and every one of them is very well designed and interesting. Bloodlines may only have six, but they're ridiculously long... that game feels too long not because it has too many levels, but because with that stupid credit limit and the very long levels finishing a single level without crippling your whole game with using the credits early is a major accomplishment, really, for me at least. I don't think I've gotten past the third level without using up too many credits to be able to finish or make writing down the password worthwhile...
But anyway, whether you are having fun is more important than how long a game is. Someone may not finish even a very short game if it's no fun. Of course length comes into the picture for issues like whether it drags on, gets repetitive, etc, but SCIV doesn't do those things at all, so that's not an issue. I think here it's just about whether the player likes the game...
What you say generally here is true, except that for me SCV4's lack of challenge combined with Simon's slow walking speed (not an issue in other games where you're busy watching out for enemies and whatnot) make things monotonous at times, and that combined with the large stage count makes the entire ordeal feel overly drawn out by the end.
See above.
Two things: 1) playing as Maria is a far better paced experience, and 2) she's an optional character.
Again, too many moves isn't always a good thing. Interesting how you mentioned the charge shot in the MM games, since that became an unwelcome substitute when it came to boss strategies.
cartman414
Member
Oops, double post.
Cow Mengde
Banned
Here's the trailer of a fan game a friend showed me on the AVGN forums.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjXKTqLXvwU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjXKTqLXvwU
Cow Mengde
Banned
Aru said:
As a PC owner starved for brawlers, this looks awesome.