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[viveks86]

Anyone could guess what the majority opinion would be here even before hitting the vote button. To get any real insight on what the gaming community as a whole thinks, the other big forum needs to be polled as well. It appears that we are stuck in 2 different echo chambers, with a sizable minority leaning the other way on any topic remotely controversial.

Even if one thinks TLOU2 was a dumpster fire, that must be one heck of a glorious dumpster fire for people to be discussing it so much. It looks like it will live rent free in our minds forever. If that's not an achievement for any creative, I don't know what is. Sure, there would be a bunch of people wanting to cancel their games going forward because of "wokeness", but as long as they continue making competent games with fun gameplay, they are looking at upwards of 10 million in lifetime sales as realistic targets for anything they make. Don't know how that can be bad for any studio.

Quite the opposite actually, as from what I've seen the most hardcore fans of that game narrative are easily impressed brainwashed teenagers, or broken and downright mentally ill people.

Thank you for the astute and totally data driven psycho-analysis of (likely) millions of people. You must have clearly engaged with them at an intimate and personal level to confidently know their state of mind, IQ and maturity. Ever considered becoming a therapist?

Or may be you just need to cool off and not be so hateful about your fellow gamers? We are all here to enjoy a hobby and have fun discussing it, no?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Clearly, Bruce was the anchor to keep this dude in check.

 

[nial]

Here you have some other related sources of other related statements, even if some not as clear:

None of these are remotely close to what you were initially implying, but glad that we agree regarding TLL.

 

[LordOcidax]

Next poll please. Was ND better before Druckmamn? Yes or No

 

[Sleepwalker]

ND doesn't release a game every 5-7 years. Here is what Naughty Dog has released in the last ~11 years.

• The Last of Us
• The Last of Us Expansion - The Left Behind
• Uncharted 4
• Uncharted Lost Legacy
• The Last of Us 2

In addition, they also released 3 remasters (TLOU, TLOU 2, UC4) and 1 remake (TLOU P1). And they had one game canceled (TLOU Online), which would have been released in 2023/2024 otherwise.

5 AAA games in 11 years is extremely good.

I don't care about them remastering/remaking the same games over and over or whatever projects they had cancelled.

You can make it seems like DLC content and and a smaller expansion are AAA games if you want, but I don't classify them as such.

It really won't change my mind, which is what this thread is about, personal opinions.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I don't care about them remastering/remaking the same games over and over or whatever projects they had cancelled.

You can make it seems like DLC content and and a smaller expansion are AAA games if you want, but I don't classify them as such.

It really won't change my mind, which is what this thread is about, personal opinions.

They did release 5 games though. Not trying to change your mind, but just mentioning factual info.

Personal opinions are absolutely fine. Some things, however, are objectively true or false. Just saying.

 

[yurinka]

Also, I think the fact that TLL is better regarded than U1 and U3

In your fantasies maybe. In the real world it got a 84 MC, while Uncharted 3 got 92 and Uncharted 1 got 88.

it's literally no different from a new Mario game featuring Wario or Yoshi, or Echoes of Wisdom where you only play as Zelda.

Yes, there two big differences, the ones I complain about:
-Nintendo doesn't think that having white, male, heterosexual protagonists is something negative that must be replaced.
-Nintendo continues making the mainline Mario games with Mario as protagonist and mainline Zelda games with Link as protagonist because they know these iconic characters are key for the IP. These Nintendo spinoffs with other characters are extras on top, they don't retire or replace or kill their iconic protagonists in their mainline games to get rid of the iconic protagonist and make room in the story for the other characters.

 

[NickFire]

I think he's done a great job so far and has made his company extremely successful. Whether it continues with the shifting tides will be interesting to watch.

 

[ProtoByte]

intergalactic has been in development for 4 years so long before concord happened. i bet if the game started development today there is no way the main character would look like this.

Concord shouldn't have needed to happen for the games industry to understand that bald women wearing fake Akira jackets on the cover doesn't sell games. It doesn't sell anything.

I know that Druckmann is smart enough to realize it, but it's pretty obvious that he doesn't care. So then, the higher ups at Sony (Jim Ryan, Hermen Hulst) should be fired, because they obviously aren't smart enough to realize when their budget is getting pissed away on nonsense.

 

[MacReady13]

Next poll please. Was ND better before Druckmamn? Yes or No

100% yes. I remember when ND made games that were FUN! They didn't take themselves so seriously. Jak. Uncharted (before 4). All were fantastic games! TLOU is, quite possibly the MOST overrated game I've ever played! I enjoy it, but the praise heaped upon it is ridiculous. I couldn't get through part 2 it was an over bloated and unfocused mess. As for Uncharted 4, well lets just say it was even more bloated than the majority of shit released today.

Druckmann has yet to prove anything to me. I like the setting of Intergalactic and what it is trying to go for, so lets see if it sticks the landing. Druckamnn's record so far would say to me this game falls on its face. Sales wise, Playstation fanboys will lap his shit up no matter the slop he produces.

 

[semiconscious]

me? i just hate how humorless naughty dogs games've become. the massive success of last of us, as dead serious a game as has ever been made, apparently convinced druckmann that it should be carried over into all their games, resulting in uncharted 4, & the (for me) incredibly awkward 'maturing' of nathan drake from a goofy semi-cartoon character killing machine into a warmhearted dad?...

& now? i'm just not seeing either the main character, or the concept of bounty hunters, being a subject with a lot of humor potential, either. 'witty rapport"? i'm sure, up the wazoo. but uncharted-level, dumb, charming, willing to poke fun at itself, humor? I'm not sure there's anyone left at naughty dog who could even write it...

 

[Fabieter]

I don't really know him to form an opinion of him as a person. If you want me to form an opinion of the games that he's had some part in

• Jak 3
• Jak X
• Uncharted: Drake's Fortune
• Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
• The Last of Us
• The Last of Us: Left Behind
• Uncharted 4: A Thief's End
• Uncharted: The Lost Legacy
• The Last of Us Part II

then I think they've all been pretty great.

Half of those wasnt even directed by him

 

[Astray]

What exactly did he do to 'save' the storyline? The inclusion of the brother felt completely forced and just an excuse to have Troy Baker in the game.

The best part of U4 is the relationship between Nate and Elena finally reaching a conclusion. And I have serious doubts he is capable of writing something that wholesome.

Simple answer is.. We don't know.

What I do know is UC3 had a much worse story (but better set-pieces).

 

[Kings Field]

I liked first the last of us and the multiplayer but didn't care of anything else really

 

[nial]

In your fantasies maybe. In the real world it got a 84 MC, while Uncharted 3 got 92 and Uncharted 1 got 88.

Yeah, let's compared the MC scores for two full blown-up games and a standalone expansion. U1 is mostly seen as a rough first step while U3 came off as a disappointment after U2; that's generally how ND fans have felt over the years.

Yes, there two big differences, the ones I complain about:
-Nintendo doesn't think that having white, male, heterosexual protagonists is something negative that must be replaced.

ND doesn't either if TLL is your go-to example.

-Nintendo continues making the mainline Mario games with Mario as protagonist and mainline Zelda games with Link as protagonist because they know these iconic characters are key for the IP. These Nintendo spinoffs with other characters are extras on top, they don't retire or replace or kill their iconic protagonists in their mainline games to get rid of the iconic protagonist and make room in the story for the other characters.

Dear lord, that's the entire thing about this; TLL IS AN EXTRA ON TOP, how can you even get to the conclusion that Chloe and Nadine were meant to replace Nathan when we never even got a follow-up to TLL starring both of them again? Uncharted is done and TLL was nothing more than a side story akin to Super Mario Land 3 or Yoshi's Island. Period.

 

[Three]

Half of those wasnt even directed by him

"He's had some part in" =/= directed.

Even just the directed ones they're more highly acclaimed.

 

[Games of Today]

I'm fairly neutral but still negative. He hasn't led the studio poorly but he's not a very good writer and the sole fact that he helped can Amy Hennig's Uncharted 4 is the real reason I don't appreciate him.

 

[Fabieter]

"He's had some part in" =/= directed.

Even just the directed ones they're more highly acclaimed.

Yea because bruce straley had him in check for all games besides part 2 and that was the start of the downfall.

 

[KimDongHwan]

I would like him to just go back to the roots, is never too late to say "ok, it's been too much of this political message, let me make a regular game now" - Make one good regular game and then you can go back to sending "the message"

 

[Brock2621]

I'm sure this has been posted a million times, but hearing him give a speech and saying video games are misogynistic and putting Anita up on a pedestal really connects all the dots for me as to why I don't enjoy his story telling. The gameplay mechanics are the only thing I enjoy.

I just finished TLOU2 for the first time about a month ago, and I felt the production value was the best I'd ever seen, but the story and writing was so heavy-handed, so dragged out, and some of the character decisions and motivations broke what was already established in the first game leaving a really bad taste in my mouth.

With that said, I'll watch a couple reviews about Intergalactic and just see what these forums are saying about it before I consider jumping in.

 

[Fake]

Neil Druckman is Gafs J.K Rowling

Yeah both are woman.

 

[yurinka]

Dear lord, that's the entire thing about this; TLL IS AN EXTRA ON TOP, how can you even get to the conclusion that Chloe and Nadine were meant to replace Nathan when we never even got a follow-up to TLL starring both of them again?

Because as seen above ND didn't want white, male, heterosexual protagonists and wanted to replace them with tokenized characters instead because of wokism.

Decided to retire Nate in U4 to replace him with Nadine and Chloe in ULL, killed Joel to replace him and Ellie with the more tokenized couple Abby and Lev, and now the protagonist of the new IP is a highly tokenized ugly, manly, uncharismatic, non-white lesbian.

And it isn't something that only happened in ND, Sony also is doing it elsewhere: Peter Parker getting replaced by more tokenized protagonists, same with Jin Sakai in GoT, no DG sequel, sold Death Stranding, even the furry Ratchet got a female coprotagonist. Returnal also got female protagonist, like Horizon whose protagonist is now lesbian. There's only the pussyfied Kratos left, who apparently is being replaced with his uncharismatic son, a character from the mythology a shapeshifter that transform into woman or furry and her Nordic girlfriend is black because of potatoes.

These recent years Sony has been getting rid of their male, white, heterosexual protagonists. I assume Kratos is left because they -still- didn't have the balls to replace him, but may do it in the next game of the GoW series.

 

[BacklashWave534]

Since he has taken over, every game has had forced identity politics. People are just sick of this shit!

 

[DonF]

Can't stand him and his agendas. Bring back video games like Crash Bandicoot.

I really need a AA ND platformer.

 

[HogIsland]

"tokenized" is so fucking ridiculous yurinka

 

[nial]

And it isn't something that only happened in ND, Sony also is doing it elsewhere: Peter Parker getting replaced by more tokenized protagonists

Not the case.

same with Jin Sakai in GoT

An anthology franchise, and Jin wasn't even a white person to begin with.

no DG sequel

So?

sold Death Stranding

Nothing more than business, they're still producing DS2, btw.

even the furry Ratchet got a female coprotagonist.

And the game did not suffer one bit due to it. Also, it's fucking Ratchet, a cartoon animal character.

Returnal also got female protagonist, like Horizon whose protagonist is now lesbian.

Weren't we talking about white straight males getting replaced by female characters in sequels?

There's only the pussyfied Kratos left

okay...

who apparently is being replaced with his uncharismatic son, a character from the mythology a shapeshifter that transform into woman or furry and her Nordic girlfriend is black because of potatoes.

"who apparently", okaaay.

These recent years Sony has been getting rid of their male, white, heterosexual protagonists.

Dear lord.
Also, do they have to be white? Sony is publishing Lost Soul Aside next year.

 

[Pandawan]

Horrible job. Amy Hanning and Bruce Straley were the ones who carried Naughty Dog, and Neil ruined their legacy.

Every Naughty Dog game before TLOU2 was insanely good. TLOU2 was already meh.

And Intergalactic made an impression that it will be a garbage-tier game, that still has insane graphics because Druckmann inherited a great engine and some talented artists.

 

[Arachnid]

Generally positive. IMO he's been a net negative narratively, but I can't deny that TLOU2 has some of the best gameplay I've ever experienced. Same with Uncharted 4 being better than previous games in terms of gameplay (set pieces not included).

Gameplay trumps all for me, so I'd say positive.

 

[Gamer79]

 

[Gamer79]

The guy is a liberal cuck

 

[phant0m]

said it before, I do wonder if dealing with Druckmann is why Straley left.

ND = Naughty Dog, or Neil Druckmann?

 

[ShirAhava]

ND was never that good with or without him.....Uncharted 2 (which I loved) was a fluke

Keef the Thief > The Last of Us

 

[Three]

Yea because bruce straley had him in check for all games besides part 2 and that was the start of the downfall.

Nope Bruce wasn't there for Lost legacy after Uncharted 4.

 

[Fabieter]

Nope Bruce wasn't there for Lost legacy after Uncharted 4.

Yes and he also didnt write or direct lost legacy.

 

[Three]

Yes and he also didnt write or direct lost legacy.

He was head of narrative development on lost legacy. Not sure what your aim is with all this discrediting. Next you'll say he had no involvement in Left Behind either.

 

[HogIsland]

How is this not badass and awesome?

 

[viveks86]

"tokenized" is so fucking ridiculous yurinka

Hey be respectful. Yurinka might be a robot.

"Parsing error! Cannot compute decline in charismatic straight white male representation"

 

[Generic]

Great, Last of Us 2 is one of the best TPS games of all time and one of a few games ever made with good storytelling.

 

[NastyPasty]

I'd say promoted to his level of incompetence. As a dev then writer then director, I with those who think his record's fantastic. Thing is, since 2018 he's been more senior than that, and has to take a share of responsibility for the output and and direction of the Studio. And it isn't good. Yes, the TLOU multiplayer was canned. Yes, COVID affected the whole industry. Games growing in scale and complexity too, but of all Studios ND should be fairly immune to that, they were there already. It looks like they will go 6 years with nothing substantial and new, and that's not good.

 

[Fabieter]

He was head of narrative development on lost legacy. Not sure what your aim is with all this discrediting. Next you'll say he had no involvement in Left Behind either.

He had an oversight role. It was alot better than uc4 which was directed by druckmann.

 

[CLW]

I think he made/led one great game TLOU and that success his ego exploded and for some reason no one at Sony is able/willing to rein him in

TLOU 2 story was an abject dumpster fire and it’s been remakes remasters ever since

 

[The Fartist]

I've heard he's a god or something.

 

[RaySoft]

How on earth can someone judge his CEO duties in this short timespan?? It's just stupid and if anything, only oozes insecurity.

 

[TGO]

I'm a big fan of Uncharted and it oozes with ND humour, I even enjoyed Uncharted 3 but TLOU was different, more serious ND game but you could see the ND DNA in there.
Uncharted 4 is were I started seeing a tone that wasn't recognizable and some things rubbed me the wrong way.
Lost Legacy again felt off, and it still don't make sense why Nadine who was last seen leaving Nate for dead was budding up with Chloe, who Druckmann recently posted a image with the heading "Friendship" for Lost Legacy.
Like... really?
And then we had TLOU2, this game I pushed myself through a lot of this while playing

Reading people saying how great it is ( many those are same repeating it in this thread) I continued to force myself forward until I got to the point of having enough, so I switched it off for that night and I haven't returned to it since.
I didn't recognise the original characters and didn't like the new characters.
It look like TLOU, it played like the TLOU.
But every none gameplay segment felt like I took a bite into something that had gone off.
But there's still it's story telling, and all I saw was contrivance throughout, which happens when a writer takes over from someone else's work and wants to bend it to their own because what story they want to tell doesn't make sense in the context of what came before.
I hadn't seen so much shit story and character assassination since The Last Jedi.
And it got to the point of me not even caring for Ellie, Joel, Tommy because they wasn't the characters I knew.
And I think that was the point subconsciously I decided not to return to the game.

The newest Trailer for Intergalactic looks like TLOU2 in GOTG clothing
And I don't want that shit
Although Uncharted in GOTG clothing with the ND charm does seem more fitting and I'd buy it day one even if Druckmann is Directing
"But that's what it is!" I can already hear people saying, but it's not.
It's TLOU2 in space, and the ND charm left home years ago.
Do I personally blame Druckmann? Nah
But I don't think he deserves the praise he gets.

 

[March Climber]

1. Gameplay-wise he has improved greatly.
2. Writing-wise he has been up and down in quality.
3. Direction-wise he has created some amazing moments.

Kojima outperforms him on points 1 and 3, but Druckmann sometimes hits a very close peak.

 

[Arsic]

I’m neutral.

I love his games despite my criticism. My issue is that his portfolio as head is 50% remasters.

Bingo.

Last of us 1 is great.
Last of us 2 first half is great.

Everything else is a nothing burger. Basically sitting at a C average. His new game will make or break him.

Problem is the internet has already made its decision on his next game. Like Veilguard and concord it’s a RIP.

 

[yurinka]

Not the case.

Of course it's the case, I proven to you that they got rid of all their male characters and are tokenizing

An anthology franchise, and Jin wasn't even a white person to begin with.

Bullshit, just an excuse to tokenize more the protagonist because he was still male and heterosexual.

So?

They got rid of another protagonist that was white, male and heterosexual.

Nothing more than business, they're still producing DS2, btw.

As I remember it's the first time Sony sels a AAA gaming IP. It wasn't a huge seller so I highly doubt a lot of money would be paid for it. Pretty likely Sony wanted to get rid of the IP and Kojima prefered to buy it and demand to make the sequel to continue working with them.

And well, let's see if he continues being the protagonist in the game or if he gets replaced by a female during the game.

And the game did not suffer one bit due to it. Also, it's fucking Ratchet, a cartoon animal character.

Yes, they have the need to tokenize even furries. I agree it's dumb.

Weren't we talking about white straight males getting replaced by female characters in sequels?

We were talking about Sony tokenizing all their protagonists because they want to get rid of white, male, heterosexual (and attractive) characters because they consider that is negative to have them and have the need of replacing them due to wokism. As also happens in many other companies not only from gaming.

Also, do they have to be white? Sony is publishing Lost Soul Aside next year.

They don't need to be white, male or heterosexual: they have to be great iconic characters liked by their fans and custormers instead of being ugly, unlikable and uncharismatic crappy replacements of their iconic protagonists because these woke activists hate people of certain gender, skin color, or sexual preference and don't want to make appealing stuff for these groups, who happen to be by far the largest group of customers. They should be respectful with their IPs, characters, fans and customers.

People like me loved Kat from Gravity Rush, but for the woke she must be too femenine, cute and beautiful. Same goes with Jin Sakai. Same goes with Ellie, she was a lesbian in TLOU1 and everybody loved the game and her, nobody complained about her being a woman or lesbian.

The problem is not their gender, skin color or sexual preferences. The problem is that they are getting rid of the characters we love and are replacing them with characters we dislike because they are focused on making woke activism and propaganda and not in making great games that the customers who paid their games during decades want to play. We want to have fun with games, not to be constantly lectured with bullshit by uncultured dumb idiots.

In fact, go to see who was voted by the PSN players their favorite character of the year (spoiler: it wasn't an ugly androginous manly non-white lesbian Mary Sue from Concord). She's an Asian female (but femenine, likable and attractive, something that pretty likely caused issues to get it greenlighted at Sony and maybe is the reason of why Yoshida is leaving Sony).

Many of us are getting tired of this woke bullshit and are stopping to support these games, as seen in Concord, Forspoken or Destruction AllStars. Let's hope they stop it before it's to late because you know... go woke go broke.

Hey be respectful. Yurinka might be a robot.

"Parsing error! Cannot compute decline in charismatic straight white male representation"

Hey be respectful. You are almost as good with the jokes as your mother in the bed.

 

[SHA]

There is a part of me when I started playing TLOU for the first time says, this is silent hill, in a good way, without looking down at the ip.

 

[viveks86]

Hey be respectful. You are almost as good with the jokes as your mother in the bed.

I'm confused. Does that mean I'm good or not? My mother would like to know as well.

 

[Plague Doctor]

Didn't vote. Last ND game I played was Uncharted 2, I think and it was AAA slop before we had a word for that. It worked, it was polished, and it was dull. Crash was never my shit so can't comment to that in their old school days.

Never touched TLOU cause when it hit I was so burnt out on dramatic zombie apoc and the trauma of survivor shit. It could be as great as everyone said but the premise alone was so played out by that point (and still is) that I could give a fuck. So same shit but the zombies are mushrooms cause it tangentially connects to some shit with what happens in the animal kingdom with ants. Don't care. I can give credit to the other games that atleast attempts to focus on survival even though I don't really like survival craft games. But atleast that is a hook that plays into the core concept of an apocalypse.

I do know that Druckmann is an ass clown for the way he views the medium and the consumer base though through news. So can't see myself ever kneeling at the polished AAA slop trough of ND.

And this isn't a shit on Sony thing. Bloodborne is in my top 10 games of all times and found a lot to like in other exclusives.

But the ND worship was always fucking dumb to me. Either way, no clue if the studio is better or worse with him or when they did mascot games and shit.