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[dejay]

Both courses include the gun. The 2nd course that I have quoted and not linked, I'd have to purchase 250 rounds which would make it cost about $70 for the course +$100 for the rounds equaling like $170 give or take some cash. The linked course says firearm and ammo are included. I'm leaning towards the linked one since it's cheaper and has the ammo and gun included. Do I really need the 7 hour course vs the 3 hour course?

The 3 hour course will get you up and walking. You won't do anything "advanced" but you can work on it in your own time after that.

Think of it like driving a car - you can get a few basic lessons, but really you're not good enough to drive on the road. After a basic course, you should be good enough to take a gun to a range and not shoot something accidentally, but you wouldn't be anywhere good enough to use it in a real world situation or even a practical based competition.

Probably do the 3 hour course, then have some shooting time with various guns at ranges and after you've put a two thousands rounds down range decide where you want to go. If at some point after that you can take more advanced courses which include self defence, etc. Personally I don't think seven hours from a cold start is a good grounding in something like using a gun in the real world.

As for youtube channels, this gentleman has some stuff on safety, but he also shoots a lot of guns and he does so very well without a lot of politics or wanky heavy metal music or explosion sound effects - https://www.youtube.com/user/hickok45 His stance is old-school, but he can shoot.

(edit) I'd add that once you get a gun, your familiarity will increase dramatically. There's nothing like being able to dry-fire something (after meticulously safety checking it), stripping it down, cleaning it, handling, etc, to get you familiar with it.

 

[CreepingFear]

The 3 hour course will get you up and walking. You won't do anything "advanced" but you can work on it in your own time after that.

Think of it like driving a car - you can get a few basic lessons, but really you're not good enough to drive on the road. After a basic course, you should be good enough to take a gun to a range and not shoot something accidentally, but you wouldn't be anywhere good enough to use it in a real world situation or even a practical based competition.

Probably do the 3 hour course, then have some shooting time with various guns at ranges and after you've put a two thousands rounds down range decide where you want to go. If at some point after that you can take more advanced courses which include self defence, etc. Personally I don't think seven hours from a cold start is a good grounding in something like using a gun in the real world.

As for youtube channels, this gentleman has some stuff on safety, but he also shoots a lot of guns and he does so very well without a lot of politics or wanky heavy metal music or explosion sound effects - https://www.youtube.com/user/hickok45 His stance is old-school, but he can shoot.

(edit) I'd add that once you get a gun, your familiarity will increase dramatically. There's nothing like being able to dry-fire something (after meticulously safety checking it), stripping it down, cleaning it, handling, etc, to get you familiar with it.

Thanks. I actually stumbled on to one of his videos before by searching for Mossberg 500. Dude's a badass

 

[esms]

As for youtube channels, this gentleman has some stuff on safety, but he also shoots a lot of guns and he does so very well without a lot of politics or wanky heavy metal music or explosion sound effects - https://www.youtube.com/user/hickok45 His stance is old-school, but he can shoot.

As someone who's relatively unfamiliar with firearms but will be looking to get one in the next year or so, this guy has been extremely helpful.

 

[lostsupper]

Hickok45 is absolutely not anti-political. He's also not really a source of useful information for a beginner. At best his videos provide candid subjective impressions of the firearms he features.

 

[CreepingFear]

Hickok45 is absolutely not anti-political. He's also not really a source of useful information for a beginner. At best his videos provide candid subjective impressions of the firearms he features.

Yeah, I watched his beginner shooting video and at the end of it he suggested joining gun organizations such as the NRA, which I don't want to do. Do you have any channels you can recommend then? Thanks.

 

[lostsupper]

Yeah, I watched his beginner shooting video and at the end of it he suggested joining gun organizations such as the NRA, which I don't want to do. Do you have any channels you can recommend then? Thanks.

Frankly, no. There's a lot of personality and humor on YouTube--but the things you need to know about gun safety and firearm handling need to be taught in person by a professional.

Once you've taken a basic safety course and can confidently operate a firearm YouTube is fun for reviews and impressions. Find a range that will let you rent various pistols and familiarize yourself with them. Use the information you gather doing that to decide what to buy.

 

[dejay]

Hickok45 is absolutely not anti-political. He's also not really a source of useful information for a beginner. At best his videos provide candid subjective impressions of the firearms he features.

In terms of the number of hours the guy has online, I'd say most of his content is political free. I didn't say he was totally non-political.

The channel's main benefit for beginners is being able to convey the pleasure of shooting in a positive light that avoids most of the over the top stuff whilst offering a lot of experience. It has a large collection of video impressions which will likely contain something on something a person is likely to have shot and compares that to things someone may not have shot. For me at least it was useful for benchmarking firearms I knew against ones I didn't.

(edit) I'll add that I've found his train of thought rambling commentary as he shoots useful - where he's holding, is he rushing shots, etc. It's different to the highly edited videos from others.

 

[Javaman]

Picking up a Ruger mk3 in a couple of minutes to do some plinking. It's a lot more fun to shoot than my 9mm. I'd like to get the stainless steel hunter, but I don't know if its worth the extra $200.

 

[Flo_Evans]

In terms of the number of hours the guy has online, I'd say most of his content is political free. I didn't say he was totally non-political.

The channel's main benefit for beginners is being able to convey the pleasure of shooting in a positive light that avoids most of the over the top stuff whilst offering a lot of experience. It has a large collection of video impressions which will likely contain something on something a person is likely to have shot and compares that to things someone may not have shot. For me at least it was useful for benchmarking firearms I knew against ones I didn't.

(edit) I'll add that I've found his train of thought rambling commentary as he shoots useful - where he's holding, is he rushing shots, etc. It's different to the highly edited videos from others.

I like that it feels like you are hanging out at the range with him. Really casual but allot of info in his videos.

Also... I'm super excited and don't want to jinx it but I might be doing some work with Sig Sauer. Gimmie some pistols to play with please

 

[Eighty Deuce]

First silencer cleared, got to take it home.

 

[Javaman]

First silencer cleared, got to take it home.

Sweet suppressor! Is it easy to take apart to clean?

Here's the Ruger MK3 I bought the other day, (just a stock photo)

I took the silly "flash suppressor" off and put the thread protector on. It's nice to have the option to get a suppressor someday without having to worry about a gunsmith working the barrel.

I've only shot just over a hundred rounds through the mk3 and it's a lot more accurately than I am haaha. I think the longer sight distance helps a lot in keeping everything lined up with the target. Certainly a lot more accurate then my M&P bodyguard.

Once I ran out of ammo a kind person at the range gave me a couple of handfuls of bulk .22LR that ended up being complete crap. The 3rd round blew some smoke out the ejection port and the casing was stuck in the breech. I took it home and carefully ran a cleaning rod down the barrel to see if the bullet made it out and the case popped free. I'm so glad I was wearing safety glasses. Check this out!

I can't believe that .22LR is still so hard to find. It used to be dirt cheap. Locally the cheapest I've found is CCI 50 rounds for $8. Hell, .380 is almost 2x the price of 9mm around here. Crazy!

 

[m_shortpants]

Sweet suppressor! Is it easy to take apart to clean?

Here's the Ruger MK3 I bought the other day, (just a stock photo)

I took the silly "flash suppressor" off and put the thread protector on. It's nice to have the option to get a suppressor someday without having to worry about a gunsmith working the barrel.

I've only shot just over a hundred rounds through the mk3 and it's a lot more accurately than I am haaha. I think the longer sight distance helps a lot in keeping everything lined up with the target. Certainly a lot more accurate then my M&P bodyguard.

Once I ran out of ammo a kind person at the range gave me a couple of handfuls of bulk .22LR that ended up being complete crap. The 3rd round blew some smoke out the ejection port and the casing was stuck in the breech. I took it home and carefully ran a cleaning rod down the barrel to see if the bullet made it out and the case popped free. I'm so glad I was wearing safety glasses. Check this out!

I can't believe that .22LR is still so hard to find. It used to be dirt cheap. Locally the cheapest I've found is CCI 50 rounds for $8. Hell, .380 is almost 2x the price of 9mm around here. Crazy!

Do you know what brand that bullet was? I have a GSG .22 1911 and it cycles everything except Federal bulk .22. As far as .22 is concerned, I just have a few wikiarm alerts set up. Can usually get rounds for around 8-10 cents per.

Anyway, I got my S&W SD9VE last week and took it to the range. Had absolutely 0 malfunctions with about 250 rounds, all of which were remanufactured. The gun is basically a glock rip off that costs $300-350. The only thing you can fault is the trigger which is a tad bit on the heavy side but it's definitely manageable. Came with 2 mags as well. Not bad at all.

 

[Javaman]

Do you know what brand that bullet was? I have a GSG .22 1911 and it cycles everything except Federal bulk .22. As far as .22 is concerned, I just have a few wikiarm alerts set up. Can usually get rounds for around 8-10 cents per.

Anyway, I got my S&W SD9VE last week and took it to the range. Had absolutely 0 malfunctions with about 250 rounds, all of which were remanufactured. The gun is basically a glock rip off that costs $300-350. The only thing you can fault is the trigger which is a tad bit on the heavy side but it's definitely manageable. Came with 2 mags as well. Not bad at all.

They came out of a bulk pack of winchester 525 IIRC, but he may have been using the box to dump other brands in.

That mk3 is a pain to take apart. I know the sequence to use, but everything is fitted real tight. I've got to use a nylon jewler's hammer to tap it apart (with a pencil to tap down the pin right behind the rear sight. It'll probably get easier after taking it apart a couple of times. I need to try a couple of different brands to find some that work well. Do you go with jacketed/plated .22s?

 

[m_shortpants]

They came out of a bulk pack of winchester 525 IIRC, but he may have been using the box to dump other brands in.

That mk3 is a pain to take apart. I know the sequence to use, but everything is fitted real tight. I've got to use a nylon jewler's hammer to tap it apart (with a pencil to tap down the pin right behind the rear sight. It'll probably get easier after taking it apart a couple of times. I need to try a couple of different brands to find some that work well. Do you go with jacketed/plated .22s?

I usually go for anything I can find, except Federal bulk. Remington Thunderbolts are supposed to be pretty dirty rounds but even they work fine. I've tried most brands and Federals are the only ones that give me issues with my .22 handgun. Particularly the auto match boxes. I usually just shoot those with my 10/22 which will take anything you put in it.

 

[shadyspace]

All I've ever shot is Remington Thunderbolt :lol

 

[Javaman]

I usually go for anything I can find, except Federal bulk. Remington Thunderbolts are supposed to be pretty dirty rounds but even they work fine. I've tried most brands and Federals are the only ones that give me issues with my .22 handgun. Particularly the auto match boxes. I usually just shoot those with my 10/22 which will take anything you put in it.

Yeah, I heard bad things about the thunderbolts too. They'll even get your hands dirty (lead?) just by handling them. Yuck.

 

[fastford58]

All I've ever shot is Remington Thunderbolt :lol

I can't shoot that garbage. Lead build up is insane. Google search it; it is awful stuff.

 

[shadyspace]

I can't shoot that garbage. Lead build up is insane. Google search it; it is awful stuff.

Good to know!

 

[Piggus]

Damn that MK3 is hot. I've fired one once and absolutely loved it, so that's definitely my next handgun purchase.

I have a box of pretty good .22 hollowpoint that my friend gave to me a long time ago. The longer I save it, the longer I feel like I'm hoarding gold or something.

 

[m_shortpants]

Here's the Smith and Wesson bootleg Glock. Shot both this and my brothers Glock side by side and the trigger is the only potential downside. Even still, it's something you can absolutely get used to and there are trigger kits you can get to lower the trigger weight. For me personally it's not an issue because I don't mind a heavy trigger, especially for a self defense gun with no safety. I shot about 250 rounds with no malfunctions at all. For $300-350 it's a pretty good deal IMO. Even came with 2 magazines.

 

[fastford58]

Good to know!

Yeah lol. I was blowing some through my M&P 22 and after about 60 rounds the gun started shooting high and key holing like crazy. There was blobs of lead shooting out of the barrel onto the table.

When I got home I ran a rod down it and produced a sleeve of lead from the barrel.

Did some research and apparently that is about the norm for this stuff.

 

[Piggus]

Here's the Smith and Wesson bootleg Glock. Shot both this and my brothers Glock side by side and the trigger is the only potential downside. Even still, it's something you can absolutely get used to and there are trigger kits you can get to lower the trigger weight. For me personally it's not an issue because I don't mind a heavy trigger, especially for a self defense gun with no safety. I shot about 250 rounds with no malfunctions at all. For $300-350 it's a pretty good deal IMO. Even came with 2 magazines.

Sweet. I was considering that but ended up with the Taurus PT-111 G2 9mm. It only holds 12 rounds, but it's comfortable, has a manual safety (along with the trigger and internal safties), and for a double-stack gun it's still pretty thin and small. The trigger is also a bit lighter than the SD9. Came with two mags for $300.

 

[MisterNoisy]

Here's the Smith and Wesson bootleg Glock. Shot both this and my brothers Glock side by side and the trigger is the only potential downside. Even still, it's something you can absolutely get used to and there are trigger kits you can get to lower the trigger weight. For me personally it's not an issue because I don't mind a heavy trigger, especially for a self defense gun with no safety. I shot about 250 rounds with no malfunctions at all. For $300-350 it's a pretty good deal IMO. Even came with 2 magazines.

I've shot a few of these thanks to range neighbors, and I can't hate on them. They've always been solid little handguns and the price is hard to beat.

Sadly, it rained all weekend here, so no range time for me.

I did take the opportunity to run some non-chlorinated brake cleaner followed by a couple of drops of Hoppe's Elite and comprrssed air through my Rhino, tho - some of the cleaning stuff I was using had gotten in the lock works and was crudding it up, but now it cycles like a champ again.

 

[Javaman]

I was reading a book about handguns I picked up today on the cheap and came across this picture. Good god there's so much wrong with it.

Anyone else care to pick them out?

 

[Piggus]

Hope she doesn't need that left index finger for anything. And if that lady standing behind doesn't know how loud a .38 special revolver is, she's about to.

 

[MisterNoisy]

Hope she doesn't need that left index finger for anything. And if that lady standing behind doesn't know how loud a .38 special revolver is, she's about to.

I'll also add finger on the trigger while instruction is still occurring (not ready to fire), leaning back instead of forward, locked elbows and support hand finger on trigger guard - really, that's the worst grip I've seen in a while - that thing is gonna jump clear out of her hands when it goes off. Her body language screams 'I'm not ready for this'.

 

[Javaman]

Also dad with no safety glasses!

 

[MisterNoisy]

I've done a fair bit of impromptu range instruction, mostly when I see either super unsafe or clearly wrong stuff, and that picture makes me wonder how that goober got his certification.

The most common 'dangerous' thing I see is people using the 'weak side thumb over strong side wrist' grip with a semi auto, which is a recipe for the slide chewing you right the fuck up. I'm not sure why people would even do that, but I jump in and tell them why it's a terrible idea every time.

 

[hwalker84]

I was reading a book about handguns I picked up today on the cheap and came across this picture. Good god there's so much wrong with it.

Anyone else care to pick them out?

Jesus

 

[BattleMonkey]

Picked up a Scorpion Evo S1, the local shop got a shipment in and within hours they were gone, I got the last one apparently. Took it out for a quick range trial, pretty sweet little thing, light enough to one hand even. Gonna SBR it as soon as the folding stock is available.

Only negative is the ambidextrous safety switch. Since its on both sides, when firing right handed, the right switch kinda digs into my hand.... kinda odd placement.

 

[MisterNoisy]

Picked up a Scorpion Evo S1, the local shop got a shipment in and within hours they were gone, I got the last one apparently. Took it out for a quick range trial, pretty sweet little thing, light enough to one hand even. Gonna SBR it as soon as the folding stock is available.

Only negative is the ambidextrous safety switch. Since its on both sides, when firing right handed, the right switch kinda digs into my hand.... kinda odd placement.

Rad! I want one so badly, but nobody has 'em.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Rad! I want one so badly, but nobody has 'em.

Buy it online and find a local dealer to handle the transfer? Or does your state not allow it.

 

[MisterNoisy]

Buy it online and find a local dealer to handle the transfer? Or does your state not allow it.

Been looking around, but I'm as leery of Gunbroker as I am of eBay. Its not an immediate need or anything, so I can wait around for one of my go-to sellers to get them in stock.

 

[hwalker84]

Trying to figure out what I want next. I have a hole in my collection for another .40.

HK USP .40
Or
HK P30L .40

What do you guys think?

 

[Durask]

New lower with an existing upper.
I don't really NEED it - in my state we have the old garden variety AWB where you can have one evil feature on a semi-auto rifle, but I thought it is actually pretty neat.

 

[iamblades]

New lower with an existing upper.
I don't really NEED it - in my state we have the old garden variety AWB where you can have one evil feature on a semi-auto rifle, but I thought it is actually pretty neat.

The forward assist looks really funny on a rifle with a traditional stock..

Trying to figure out what I want next. I have a hole in my collection for another .40.

HK USP .40
Or
HK P30L .40

What do you guys think?

Well more and more I'm of the opinion that all handgun calibers outside of 9mm and .45 are doomed to the range toy status in the long run, I'd go with the USP as at least it was designed from the ground up around the round, and I couldn't justify like $900 for a polymer gun when you can get an SP2022(or M&P or Glock or P250/320) for ~$400. They may be nice guns, but are they over twice as nice?

 

[iamblades]

I've done a fair bit of impromptu range instruction, mostly when I see either super unsafe or clearly wrong stuff, and that picture makes me wonder how that goober got his certification.

The most common 'dangerous' thing I see is people using the 'weak side thumb over strong side wrist' grip with a semi auto, which is a recipe for the slide chewing you right the fuck up. I'm not sure why people would even do that, but I jump in and tell them why it's a terrible idea every time.

Well the reflex behind that grip is if you have trouble limp wristing, using your offhand to control your main hand wrist can help alot. If you are trying to control your wrist from breaking up, you are going to be tempted to put your thumb over top to keep your wrist down without even thinking about it, which is why it is so dangerous.

It probably isn't a good habit to get into because of the obvious, but you could probably get away with that grip on Sigs or HKs(or probably most hammer fired semi autos that aren't Berettas), if you were super careful. I imagine that is mostly people coming from revolverland that haven't fired a Glock or similar gun yet though.

 

[hwalker84]

The forward assist looks really funny on a rifle with a traditional stock..



Well more and more I'm of the opinion that all handgun calibers outside of 9mm and .45 are doomed to the range toy status in the long run, I'd go with the USP as at least it was designed from the ground up around the round, and I couldn't justify like $900 for a polymer gun when you can get an SP2022(or M&P or Glock or P250/320) for ~$400. They may be nice guns, but are they over twice as nice?

It would be a range toy

I hate Glocks, I'm Sig Soured since the debacle that was my P226 Tacops, and Smith's are ok. Since my Mark 23 I'm turning into a HK fanboy.

 

[iamblades]

It would be a range toy

I hate Glocks, I'm Sig Soured since the debacle that was my P226 Tacops, and Smith's are ok. Since my Mark 23 I'm turning into a HK fanboy.

Understand liking HK over the competition, doesn't mean that the price isn't insanely steep for what you get relatively speaking.

 

[hwalker84]

Understand liking HK over the competition, doesn't mean that the price isn't insanely steep for what you get relatively speaking.

Dat German engineering though

 

[Reven]

HKs > Money

Personally I would get the USP out of those two. I imagine the P30 is pretty similar to my HK45, which is awesome but I still think the USP is the best HK pistol.

 

[hwalker84]

HKs > Money

Personally I would get the USP out of those two. I imagine the P30 is pretty similar to my HK45, which is awesome but I still think the USP is the best HK pistol.

Leaning towards the USP that P30 trigger is so poopy. No deciding if I want the tactical. Probably not as this has a small possibility to be an alternate carry piece.

 

[Reven]

Leaning towards the USP that P30 trigger is so poopy. No deciding if I want the tactical. Probably not as this has a small possibility to be an alternate carry piece.

You could always get a tactical barrel off of HK parts, or a regular if you bought the tactical. Surprised to hear the P30 trigger called poopy. I've never shot one but just assumed it was pretty similar to the 45. That gun has an awesome trigger.

Personally the gun I'm lusting after right now is a FN FNX Tactical in .45. Colion Noir has a video where he talks about it and I'm pretty damn impressed.

 

[hwalker84]

You could always get a tactical barrel off of HK parts, or a regular if you bought the tactical. Surprised to hear the P30 trigger called poopy. I've never shot one but just assumed it was pretty similar to the 45. That gun has an awesome trigger.

Personally the gun I'm lusting after right now is a FN FNX Tactical in .45. Colion Noir has a video where he talks about it and I'm pretty damn impressed.

Like this (Older picture without my RMR)

I keep going back and forth. Now thinking more towards a P30L with the LEM trigger.

 

[Reven]

That FN is lovely. I haven't tried a LEM trigger yet but I am curious to try one myself. Maybe I'll end up converting my 45 some day.

 

[hwalker84]

With a
HK Mark 23
FNH FNX 45 Tactical
Springfield TRP 1911

I'm fine with buying anymore .45's for awhile. I have a hole for another .40.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

With a
HK Mark 23
FNH FNX 45 Tactical
Springfield TRP 1911

I'm fine with buying anymore .45's for awhile. I have a hole for another .40.

I've got a 45 osprey suppressor sitting in my safe unused. I still haven't bought a 45 because I'm saving up for a VCOG or Elcan for my SCAR

 

[hwalker84]

I've got a 45 osprey suppressor sitting in my safe unused. I still haven't bought a 45 because I'm saving up for a VCOG or Elcan for my SCAR

I'll take that off of you! VCOG is really nice. I haven't used an Elcan but I hear they're ridiculous. My Vortex Razor GENII HD I like a little bit better than the VCOG.

 

[hwalker84]

That FN is lovely. I haven't tried a LEM trigger yet but I am curious to try one myself. Maybe I'll end up converting my 45 some day.

Played with the LEM V1 trigger of a P30. Completely makes up for the BS trigger that comes on the V3. 4.5LB trigger pull throughout. They say DAO but it's really a Two Stage trigger like a Gieselle.

 

[Javaman]

Rigged up a cool little target stand for $15 out of PVC since the local range doesn't have any. I'll post pictures later. It's made of 2x 8' by 3/4" PVC pipe and 2 elbows and 2 Ts. I added a wooden dowel to the middle hanger for more support in case I hang something heavier. Super simple and without the hooks and wooden dowel it'll cost less than $8.