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AP - Europe moves to limit cheese names in America
- Thread starter Ripclawe
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you clearly don't know shit about cheese and food in general
PeskyToaster
Member
Man Euros get so salty over this stuff. Probably because they got schooled in wine making back in the 70s.
I give you the Judgment of Paris. Be sure to check the subsequent tastings as well in the Tasting Replication section. For a real taste of salt also read the Implications section.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_of_Paris_(wine)
I give you the Judgment of Paris. Be sure to check the subsequent tastings as well in the Tasting Replication section. For a real taste of salt also read the Implications section.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_of_Paris_(wine)
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
We already have that. Its the same with Cognac, Armagnac, Scotch, etc.
Euro salt? Seems more like French salt to me.
PeskyToaster
Member
I really have no concept of the difference between those two things.
Why would non-French winemakers give a shit about these results?
not psycho
Member
Nah, everyone knows authentic salt only comes from the Salzach river in Austria.
This thread tastes like European Imitation Salt Product.
CharminUltra
Member
Where can I find legit Parmigiano-Reggiano or (legit european cheeses in general) in the states anyway? (preferably in the West Coast).
PeskyToaster
Member
I don't know. I just thought it was interesting to find that the things we normally think of as the best (French wine, whiskey from Tennessee, parmesan from Parmaseanoland, and others) might not be as good as we think they are when the labels are stripped off. It seems to show that in one case, the location of where something is made doesn't matter and that's it is the work and care put it that truly make the product great. I don't think that the work and care to make great parmesan, cheddar, or champagne is restricted by geographical location. I think it's universal and I think it's unfair to other cheesemakers who may even have a better parmesan than one from a cheesemaker in Parma to handicap them in such a way.
Pretty much all grocery stores, particularly the nicer ones.
European deli/mart type places.
gutter_trash
Banned
1st post Gold Medal
Hydranockz
Member
So you think people using the parmesan name should be just fine naming it something else because it's the quality of the product and not the naming or labels that matter?
No, I know that all of that is part of the ingredients and the process.
All of those pieces can essentially be replicated almost anywhere else, except for climate. And with climate, while it has regional restrictions, you can still replicate it somewhere else in the world.
As someone who regularly buys imported Parmigiano Reggiano and Pecorino Romano, this kind of protectionism is really absurd. If your product is better than the competition, it will be obvious, as it is in the case of the parmesan cheeses vs. the original. No one is buying the stuff in the plastic container with the green lid thinking they are getting the real thing, no matter how many italian flags they stamp on the front of the thing.
It is also laughable that the EU is worried about this petty bullshit when European olive oil producers have been committing blatant fraud for decades..
It is also laughable that the EU is worried about this petty bullshit when European olive oil producers have been committing blatant fraud for decades..
Well no one in the EU expects olive oil to contain olives, so they are not being deceived, unlike Americans who really truly believe Parmesan is from Itality and Cheddar from a specific town in England.
the trick is that while you say "no one is fooled by the packaging" they actually are, they reall are fooled by the packaging. otherwise the frauds with the olive oil couldn't have ever got traction since, hey, how come the "olive garden people" can't tell the difference between EVO and a mixed seed/faked olive oil? people ARE mistaking "canned parmesan" with the real stuff and this is literally bringing down the original stuff's value, because if there's a valid alternative that's so cheap, there's no point in buying actual Parmigiano. I do agree all the protectionism is ludicrous but so is the will to falsify a brand. Parmigiano Reggiano is for all intents and purposes a brand and it's protected by law, and it was protected long before this questionable rule came to be.
also, again, whoever believes that food can be the same everywhere you go and the place where you grow/prepare/cook whatever it is doesn't clearly know anything about food in general ("real" food, not industrial stuff)
This is absolutely true. I think immigrants from italy, as an example, that come to this country and make an "italian" restaurant should be barred by law from doing so. Its not italian. The food is not italian. The recipes are not italian. Italian food can only be produced and prepared in italy. They should be forced to call it "Mediterranean inspired cuisine".
Prime crotch
Banned
I too am a cheeselitist
I'm not sure you're exaggerating on purpose or if you really think this. in any case, there's no harm in calling olive garden "italian food" (just as we can eat chinese food around the world, even if it doesn't have anything to do with the things you eat around China) but there are many food products that just can't cross borders, meaning that you can buy them and carry with you, but you can't make them in a different place. Italy is specialized in this kind of production and the typical example is pesto, which is (near) impossible to have prepared correctly out of its native region of Liguria, due to the very specific type of basil employed. crossing the mountains and moving a mere 80km it yelds a completely different result. as a result, canned pesto sold in Italy is mediocre at best and pesto sold around the world is even worse.
there are literally thousands of recognized varieties of products that have an extremely localized origin and cannot really travel due to the nature of the soil and climate. the easiest case where this can be demonstrated is wine: the same grapes ported from Europe to California yeld a completely different wine. California's wine is usually stronger, because grapes catch much more sun. of course this is not recognizable if you only drink boxed wine.
Why the flunk would they stick an Italian flag on it then?
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Stop right there.
Just because the italians commit fraud with the olive oil does not mean everyone else does.
See, that's the problem with this stuff. Someone's selling shit with a brand, then the brand gets tarnished.
JzeroT1437
Member
This is something people should care about.
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
You don't seem to understand the American perception of Europe. Italy is one of the more extreme cases, for sure. We see Europe as an interactive living museum. It's basically Epcot in Disney World. Having an Italian flag on something in no way means it's from Italy. It was just inspired by old world Italy.
Because they're indicating that it should be used with "Italian" food.
This kind of protectionism isn't aimed at companies selling cheap cheese dust in a cardboard tube, if you're buying that there's no chance you're paying 10-15x as much for imported cheese. It's targeting the more upscale American cheesemakers whose customers could afford imported cheese.
this is something people care about whether you like it or not
I understand wanting to protect a brand or something.. even requiring that a product doesn't say "authentic" seems within reason but this seems really petty.
It's not like everyone outside of the Buffalo area has to sell not actual Buffalo Wings or make up some other zany name for them. I think the consumer gets that everyones sauce is going to be a bit of a different mix. You try and buy the one you prefer
It's not like everyone outside of the Buffalo area has to sell not actual Buffalo Wings or make up some other zany name for them. I think the consumer gets that everyones sauce is going to be a bit of a different mix. You try and buy the one you prefer
At least people care about something.
However small part of the whole it is it's something, and this cheese name issue is just a small part of one issue - namely the rules of origin clauses in trade.
At the same time the negotiations cover harmonizing car safety standards, coordinated chemical safety assessment, electric car infrastructure and technology standards, regulatory cooperation, lifting the tariffs, recognizing professional qualifications, liberalization of investment, investment protection...
What's happening at the moment is huge: forming a free trade area between the two biggest economies in the world which cover almost a half of the world's GDP. We're talking about hundreds of billions in trade and few thousand billions in investment alone. When the negotiations end in 2015 the agreement will definately become a blueprint for the standards, rules and regulations in global trade from there on.
At least there's cheese to get people emotionally invested.
I don't know about cheese or whiskey but geographic location (climate, soil, etc) is pretty important in wine making.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
Publix? Kroger? Whole Foods? Fresh Market?
We have these in the South. Whole Foods just opened up in my town. Unimpressed by it save for the cheesemonger. Guy knows his shit and they have some good stink in there.
There is plenty of good USA made cheese. European cheese tastes different. Better? That's for you to decide.
Except for Parmesan. I don't know what those Italians do but real Parmesan just can't be beat.
I understand the EU's position, though, and the USA has the exact same opinion on practically everything else. Some one in France can't make a cell phone and call it an Apple iPhone, even if it looks exactly the same, functions the same, etc. America has the same regulations when it comes to whisky as well.
"Where the history comes from"
It's more like "parmesan" has become the equivalent of "cell phone" in the US at this point, kind of how "cheddar" is considered inside of the EU.
It boggles the mind that so many Americans in this thread are opposed (not just ambivalent) to more accurate labelling on foods. You realize that you'd get better products in the long run right? It's the equivalent of forcing companies to differentiate between "wings" and "wyngz". Food differentiation is good for consumers. Without it companies can simply hock low quality good without repercussion - this helps no one except large corporations.
it boggles my mind that foreigners think we just bumble around bumping into walls, ignoring all sensible foreign advice about how to do anything because we're too stupid to listen.
People know what they're buying. They know when they are purchasing Kraft or good parmesan. If you go up to that scary lady in a mumu at wal-mart and ask her if she realizes she's picking up wings or wyngz, she knows exactly what she's doing and doesn't care.
What you perceive as some huge deception, we have worked out in our heads already. So, ironically, this thread about american ignorance is actually exposing a lot of stupid preconceptions about life in the USA from people who either haven't been here or are too arrogant to try to understand anything. Sorry we don't label your cheese correctly, but nobody cares.
A cows diet does make a difference in taste and nutrient profile of milk. So does raw vs pasteurized.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
We already have access to those better products, actually.
It's just when you go to the store and see PARMESAN CHEESE!!!!
madeinwisconsin
madeinitaly
Though I do think that most cheese here that is labeled Parmigiano-Reggiano is actually Italian made Parm.
Americans already call cheese sawdust parmesan. They don't believe it has the same quality as actual parmesan, they just call it that because that's what they called it since childhood.
You're basically asking to make things more confusing, not less.
Well, I'm an American, and I care, so the logic in your argument is flawed.
I also think you're flatly wrong in your implication that Americans are aware of what's in their food, but don't care. In my experience, Americans don't seem to know what's in their foods. I do agree they are don't care about it though.
What I don't get it is: how would accurate descriptions harm you as a consumer? I can't think of any. Maybe you could argue that it would make food more expensive, but I think that's a tenuous argument without much support. For consumers, I don't see any real detriment to forcing Subway to label their "footlongs" as being what they actually are (11inches). So again, I only see benefits for consumers, and I think it's myopic that the American's in this thread don't see this too.
edit:
In case it's not clear, this issue is about so much more than simple geographical indicators of cheese types.
I don't have a problem with this. Either eliminate all instances of this sort of thing or allow it for foods that are region specific and extremely old.
Each country should have D.O.C. type labeling for specific foods from specific regions that meet specific standards.
Each country should have D.O.C. type labeling for specific foods from specific regions that meet specific standards.
And had naming conventions been different, you're arguing that these people/restaurants suddenly would not have done the heavy lifting? I don't understand.
Most of the people opposed in this thread are opposed because it would result in less accurate labeling. If you can't call your parmesan parmesan and your brie brie, then the labeling will be less accurate.
This is essentially the same situation as brand names that have been genericized. If whatever company originally made the escalator started going around trying to take the name back, nobody would take them seriously. And it would just make things more confusing!
The difference between this and, say, Florida orange juice is that Florida orange juice is just orange juice that happens to have been made in Florida. There's no concrete difference--they're the same type of thing, just made in a particular place. Whereas parmesan is a specific type of cheese, different in identifiable ways from other types of cheeses. The differentiating factor that people will expect when looking for a parmesan is not where it was made but what it tastes like, the texture, etc. If you doubt this, imagine someone from Parma making a cheddar and then selling it to you as a parmesan. Would you feel that this person was correct in calling it that?
Haha, someone in parma making a cheddar is impossible, because cheddar can only be made in England
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
... those are banned in the US?
Our little bastards just shove shit into their mouths without ever attempting to chew anything and thus may choke to death on the contents.
charlequin
Banned
I would assert that for regional brands that the EU is trying to claw back after decades of generic use, they may be more historical but they are not more accurate. Suddenly restricting "feta" to a cheese of Greek origin, after it's been used as a category for so long in so many places, is an effort to change
This is quite different in my mind from things like Champagne, Taleggio, Stilton, etc. that have been consistently protected and therefore should continue to have a protective right over their product.
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