Napoleonthechimp
Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_places_in_the_United_States_named_after_places_in_England
The number of English place names in the USA is substantial.
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AP - Europe moves to limit cheese names in America
- Thread starter Ripclawe
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_places_in_the_United_States_named_after_places_in_England
The number of English place names in the USA is substantial.
And just like the use of the word soccer it's because that's what the English decided to name them!
perfectchaos007
Member
I work about 10 miles away from Liverpool, Texas. It's a small community of about 300 people. Probably more cows than people occupy the land.
And surprise surprise that the states in "New England" have so many towns/cities named after cities in England. Massachusetts is one of the smallest states in the Union and they have over 100 towns named after English towns. Texas, on the other hand, the 2nd largest state by population only has a handful
It's almost like saying, well fuck the old England, this England is better, and we're naming it NEW England....oh.. and forget those guys in Mexico....we have a NEW Mexico.....
Machine
Member
Quite a conundrum for the cheese maker in Parma who wants to make cheddar or blue cheese. If he/she calls it Parmesan cheese because it was made in Parma, what will people say?
perfectchaos007
Member
Thats the American Revolution in a nutshell.
Physical location makes a huge difference. Temperature, the animal's grass diet, humidity in the aging process, etc. It's the same as curing meats. Great Jamon Serrano tastes the way it partially because of where it's from.
Most of these cheeses are named after their damn region of origin. Cheddar comes from Cheddar, Somerswet.
Anyways, we always buy different sets of Parm - the shitty $7.99/lb. for just grating on the weekly pasta meal and the good stuff to enjoy separately.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Ah, the enlightened and rational citizens of neogaf turn into a rabid pack when it comes to american nationalism.
Sickboy007
Member
US would have it patented to shit and be making a nice commission off each use.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
This made me wonder, do we even sell "American cheese" in other countries?
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
I don't trust Italian products. Their olive oil is fake, their cheese and wines are probably as well. I trust US products more.
Kraft Singles?
If it was really about quality they wouldn't be suggesting this place-of-origin nonsense. Quality of cheese is about ingredients and the process. Its not like there's something in the air at Parma, Italy that can't be replicated elsewhere.
PDOs have been around for ever, how is this new?
There's a lot of chauvinism about this and it's wine equivalent (AOC), particularly from the French. But it's hard to deny that foreign producers are banking on the reputation of the original product.
Making the same style of cheese is fine, but make it clear that it is an American cheese made to that style.
There's a lot of chauvinism about this and it's wine equivalent (AOC), particularly from the French. But it's hard to deny that foreign producers are banking on the reputation of the original product.
Making the same style of cheese is fine, but make it clear that it is an American cheese made to that style.
The point is that our product is getting faked to hell and back, and then it get associated to low quality and you find people saying the cheese is nothign special and can be found anywhere. This is a) false marketing that ruin our main product exportation, worsening our economical conditions and b) decrease the appeal of producing high-quality food since you won't sell cause you got a bad image from false advertising, meaning more processed shit for everyone
I DID NOT KNOW THAT. I HOPE NOBODY MISTAKES WHAT I SAID FOR SARCASM
Ditto.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
I enjoyed this description very much.
Being able to taste raw hops is badbad.
are the microbrews in America all IPAs or is it heavily over represented there? Because it seems like in europe all the 'good american beer' that makes it over here is almost certainly IPA. Understandable because euro doesn't really do IPA, so they're certainly pretty unique.
IPA's are very popular, but tons of different varieties of stouts, porters, brown ales, lagers, etc. Basically, if you can think of the type of beer you want, we have it and probably have if not the best version of it available, an excellent one.
I'm not a huge fan of IPA's, pretty much limited to the Bell's Two Hearted Ale, because I'm not a huge fan of hops and I think the industry is going too far in that direction at the moment. Doesn't matter to me too much because most breweries still make other excellent beers.
Of course, PDOs don't stop inferior products being sold. Take another Emilia Romagnan speciality: balsamic vinegar. It's protected here in the UK, yet most of the stuff sold in the supermarket is a poor relative to the real thing. But because it was made in a factory in Modena, it's AOK.
But to be fair, soil and climate do have an effect.
I think they should call the American stuff Grana Americano
I like to think that Pale Ales were the initial battle ground and then everyone just piled into the hop wars with IPAs. Porters and Stouts are obviously very popular, but they may not make their way into Europe for obvious reasons. Every brewer has their spin of the hefeweizer and witbiers. As much as I love Gumballhead, I think Weihenstephaner is still the GOAT in that family of beers.
Nobody seems to give a damn about lagers, though.
Nobody seems to give a damn about lagers, though.
The US should capitulate and acknowledge American Cheddar has been hit or miss lately. I would love having no more reason to tell people why the Cheddar they buy isn't being made correctly.
Prinz Eugn
Member
I like lagers.
This whole cheese thing seems like a absurd cultural misunderstanding. As an American, our understanding of these names has so little association with these physical regions that changing them seems completely arbitrary at this point. It would make more sense to crack down on the use of "authentic," "real," etc in association with the name here than the name itself. And then the actual Parma Cheese makers will have to pay to get their own brand awareness, like everyone else. Seriously, the EU system almost seems like government subsidized marketing to me.
That's the root of "Parmesan." A lot of the Parmesan we eat - not the Kraft dust - actually comes from Argentina, since there's a big Italian population there. You can't refer to your cheese as Parmiggiano-Reggiano unless it's, you know, actually P-R.
Machine
Member
I don't buy the climate argument. Climate may have made a difference a hundred years ago but in the modern age cured meats and cheeses are generally made in buildings where temperature and humidity are regulated by machinery as opposed to relying on the whims of local atmospheric conditions.
Parmesan is the generic name for that style of cheese in the US. If it's labeled as Parmesan it's most likely not from Parma. Parmiggiano-Reggiano is the specific name/brand/label in the US for that style of cheese from Parma, you can't use it unless it's been imported from Parma. Attempts to change this in the minds of the US general public are probably a century to late.
Jamon Iberico for one is usually made by hanging in a basement or cavern open to air.
Allan Benton's bacon is still cured in basically a large cabin that acts as a smokehouse.
See, here's the thing, the type of water and grass the animal eats plays a part in the flavor of the milk made for cheese. That's something that will vary.
Case in point, back to beer for a second, last time I went to Bell's for a tour, they were talking about how they chose their larger distribution factory based on proximity to the same kind of water source they were using for the initial, smaller brewery.
perfectchaos007
Member
I didn't even know Parma was a real city until this thread. I imagine most Americans, a super majority even, would not know Parmesan is named after a city.
"Imported" labels, italian flags up the wazoo, fake stamps etc.
Parmesan. Aged 10 month. lol
Cheddar took me by surprise.
Nobody in America buys green plastic container American Parmesan cheese because of the reputation of Italian Parmesan. We buy that cheese because that's the cheese you put on spaghetti.
Green Wiggly
Member
*patriot fist*
It's really not (only). It's interesting how americans have apparently no concept of a product being tied to a soil, a climate, a type of animal, the kind of diet they eat and so forth.
It reminds me of a thread where there was a french cheese producer complaining about McDonalds making a hamburger with Camembert in it, and saying that the Camembert was so terrible it actually came from Brittany. You had americans in that thread completely confused by what that meant. They thought since Brittany is in France it should be A-ok for french people to eat cheese from there.
For a french person a Camembert made in Brittany is not a true Camembert, even though it's made in France. We ourselves pass laws all the time to prevent french people from other regions to mislabel their cheese, their wine and so forth.
"We had nothing better to do at the time."
- European Union
Seriously...?
Cheese is delicious and all, and I've had my fair share of it. But if you want to limit names for cheese just because it wasn't made in Europe, you shouldn't call Fuji apples grown in California, Fuji apples, since you know they are native to Japan?
:s
- European Union
Seriously...?
Cheese is delicious and all, and I've had my fair share of it. But if you want to limit names for cheese just because it wasn't made in Europe, you shouldn't call Fuji apples grown in California, Fuji apples, since you know they are native to Japan?
:s
USA can make all the Cheddar, Red Leicester, Gloucestershire, Wensleydale and Stilton cheeses you want
we're not as precious as those flaky Italians
Sickboy007
Member
It's the same misunderstanding that pops up when genetically engineered food is discussed. Many americans assume that the majority of europeans are against it because of pseudo-scientific, conspirative reasons, while most europeans are worried about homogenization and the dangers to local variety, historic recipes and traditional processes.
They just don't have the concept of terroir.
beato_angelico
Member
americans in this thread don't realize how ridicolous they sound.
not psycho
Member
Does anyone who agrees with changing the names have an explanation for "cheddar" not being protected in Europe?
It seems like Europeans completely agree with Americans that you shouldn't change the name of a type of cheese that has already been 100% established as generic for a very long time.
The only difference is that in America cheddar, parmesan, and mozzarella are fully generic terms (not even a slight chance of false advertising), while in Europe parmesan and mozzarella still had an association with being from a specific place.
It seems like Europeans completely agree with Americans that you shouldn't change the name of a type of cheese that has already been 100% established as generic for a very long time.
The only difference is that in America cheddar, parmesan, and mozzarella are fully generic terms (not even a slight chance of false advertising), while in Europe parmesan and mozzarella still had an association with being from a specific place.
Pinko Marx
Banned
Very much so.
"Imported" labels, italian flags up the wazoo, fake stamps etc.
Isn't capitalism great?
Due to the way in which brewing licenses were granted post-prohibition, craft brewing didn't really start until the '70s. IPA is a good (easy) recipe for a newly established brewery, it keeps well and the hops help mask flavor irregularities. So it became popularly associated with microbrews. This means that almost all breweries have at least one IPA recipe, even if their focus is elsewhere.
UKIP pressure against those nasty banana-straightening Euros in Brussels
I think a lot of people are "mad" about it - I certainly am, and I'm not atypical of the people I know. It might not bother you that that "Kobe" hamburger you just paid $100 for is angus not wagyu, and came from Texas, but there are a lot of people out there who would feel cheated by that. Furthermore, just because you're used to something doesn't mean you should accept it. Deceptive food labelling is a problem in the US, and companies get away with it because of perceive apathy on the part of the public.
As much as I like Weihenstephaner I'd rather have something by Schneider - specifically an Aventinus.
not psycho
Member
What, are you saying those aren't 100% authentic Italian cheeses imported straight from Italy?
That's a good point. I don't think "Kobe" is anywhere near the point of being considered generic, and people should fight against letting it become so.
The real question is, if something has already been established as generic for an extremely long time, doesn't it eventually become too late? Does it matter how much people were fighting against it?
I honestly don't know how hard people were fighting against these terms becoming generic. It feels like they weren't making as big an issue of it for the whole history of the terms here, and therefore it feels like it is too late now. But maybe that isn't the case.
Sickboy007
Member
Yes, misleading advertising and labelling are amazing.
I can assure you that the inverse is also true! It's pretty standard when you have a particular set of ingrained assumptions that someone with opposite ingrained assumptions sounds weird or crazy.
Just call it Parmericasan. Problem solved.
This already applies (and has been for a long time) within Europe. So it makes sense America shouldn't get a free pass.
This already applies (and has been for a long time) within Europe. So it makes sense America shouldn't get a free pass.
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