Wow, you'll telling me the cheese at my supermarket isn't made in Italy?
Next you'll tell me the pizza with all the Italian flags on it isn't from Italy.
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AP - Europe moves to limit cheese names in America
- Thread starter Ripclawe
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Next you'll tell me the pizza with all the Italian flags on it isn't from Italy.
Thing is, most people buy cheese because its cheese and they like how it tastes, and dont give a flying fuck if its manufactured in some remote village or in the US. As long as its cheese and its on the plate. Importing and forcing the real name on the genuine cheese will just turn people OFF the more expensive stuff. People will ask for Cheddar and have to buy some expensive import and then say fuck that and buy the cheap stuff anyway and STILL call it cheddar. Thats how ingrained those names are into peoples minds. they will still call cheese dust parmesan and so forth. There are a lot of cheese names still out there that havent lost association with their parent region so protect those, but for common cheese names that ship has sailed.
perfectchaos007
Member
Actually, if the packaging says explicitly "Made in Italy", it has to come from Italy. If it has a seal that says "Italy's favorite" with an accompanying Italian flag, it doesn't have to come from Italy. Thats called puffery in advertising which is completely legal.
Agreed with this. Pay attention to the wording on a label. Its not the manufacturers fault if you dont. Look down where its made and it will be immediately obvious.
not psycho
Member
The main thing I'm taking away from this thread is that Europe is screwing over the village of Cheddar.
"West Country Farmhouse Cheddar" is a protected term in Europe, but "cheddar" is used as a generic term.
That would be like "Authentic Italian Parmesan" being protected, but "parmesan" being used as a generic term.
Shame on you Europe.
"West Country Farmhouse Cheddar" is a protected term in Europe, but "cheddar" is used as a generic term.
That would be like "Authentic Italian Parmesan" being protected, but "parmesan" being used as a generic term.
Shame on you Europe.
Sickboy007
Member
Some of it is, some ain't. Some of it pretends to be italian when it's not, which is quite clear from the examples I posted. The case of Galbani is especially egregious, since people assume it's a "reputable" producer, but in the US they just dump fake Italian cheese imported from elsewhere since there are no regulations for geographical indications.
I'm aware of that, which is why I said it's misleading, not outright false (or illegal).
Another point of the matter is that food produced in the US doesn't have to indicate its origin.
I was joking. I'm sorry if it didn't come off that way.
I didn't even realize there was actual Italian cheese in the supermarket until now. Always assumed it was all made here.
It doesn't have to be.
That's just making some concession for things that are too hard to change. We'll make some concessions here too if the US doesn't dismiss the whole thing out of hand (which they won't). But even if the name Parmesan stays, we'll try to get rid of (some of) the italian imagery, or call it Parmesan-style and so forth. It's really not that terrible.
It's not the manufacturer's fault if you assume that some cheese is imported from Italy when it says IMPORTED in huge capital letters on the packaging?
Deception is deception, corporations don't need your moral support.
not psycho
Member
Exactly. And that's what we've been saying: these terms are way too established as generic in the US to change them now. It's too late.
I agree that there should be a protected term, similar to "West Country Farmhouse Cheddar", for other cheeses, so they can capitalize on authenticity. And I agree that the US should have better laws against misleading advertising (such as the ones which strongly imply it was imported from Italy).
Well, I can understand it to an extent, but some compromises seem to be in order. Namely parmesan, typically over here far as I can tell it's normally called Parmigiano Reggiano if it's imported, why not just ensure that stays the case and the generic knockoff keeps the name parmesan? There probably isn't as clean of a solution to the others, though I guess "gouda style" really isn't that bad.
People generally dont buy cheese because its imported or whatever. they buy it because its a flavor of cheese they like. Only snobs buy things because its imported from one place or another. The ones who do care about such things probably know enough about the genuine product to specifically look for it. I dont even read the packaging on cheese. I buy sargento because its neatly packaged and convenient and tastes good to me. I dont care where its actually from. Theres displays in certain stores with more exotic types of cheeses in it and the way they are packaged and labelled its immediately obvious that its authentic. If Im in the mood for authentic cheese I will just read the labels carefully and make sure I have the real stuff. Otherwise Im going bargain hunting because its freaking cheese.
anyway Ive said what I think about..cheese. Its cheese. I shouldnt be arguing about cheese. HoweveR I am hungry so I shall go eat some.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
My problem with this is that I think there's merit to the argument that its capitalizing off of American efforts to popularize those cheese styles. Protected designation of origin (PDO) products have existed and been protected for decades or even centuries. Frankly, the imaginary statute of limitations kind of ran out on Parmesan cheese.
perfectchaos007
Member
Yep. Not once did I think, when purchasing this cheese, that it came from Mexico. You would be hard pressed to find any American that would buy this cheese with expectations of it being true cheeses from Mexico. We just know it tastes good and associate that flavor as "Mexican blend". Sorry our consumerism is different than yours, EU.
We don't expect Monterey Jack to be from Monterey, Mexico.
Prinz Eugn
Member
My point is 99% of Americans are going to go "So?". There is close to zero importance attributed to place, and sub-zero association with the name to that place. It's not even on the radar.
Coming from that perspective, the name issue almost seems like an imposition of language and culture rather than fairness. It would be more fair to restrict the use of national flags, names, certain misleading words, etc. (Ala what happened in Canada) than try to basically change the common name of a whole class of products as the consumer understands them.
Sickboy007
Member
Well your post shows clearly the damage that american companies have done to the brands of european cheese; through their decades of "popularizing" them by stealing their names and reputation. Clearly all the italian imagery does something for the manufacturers, otherwise why would they plaster it everywhere? Except now you have no culture or concept of what good cheese is and the very idea of eating cheese that is actually edible seems "snobish" to you.
I agree to this. Take the fucking flags and "imported from" stuff off there. No one cares anyway.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I don't think that's fair in any case. The entire purpose of PDOs is to prevent Region B from stealing the good will built up for Region A's product. The EU it trying to use this backwards in their own favor based on the technicality that someone named it after a region in the EU 50 years ago.
Question for people in other states: is Monterey Jack still called that if it's made outside California?
Edit:
Ha, didn't even see this post:
But just to note, it originated in Monterey, California, not Monterrey, Mexico.
Edit:
Ha, didn't even see this post:
But just to note, it originated in Monterey, California, not Monterrey, Mexico.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Bourbon doesn't need to be made in Kentucky and regional names are serious business in liquor.
perfectchaos007
Member
Ah okay. Thanks to this thread I am just now realizing cheeses are mostly named after their city of origin.
Its not always the case though I'm learning. Provolone is an Italian cheese that originated in Casilli near Vesuvius, not Provo, UT
And I believe the Kraft Cheese manufacturing plant is in Illinois and they make Monterey Jack cheese so, yes? Or maybe thats a packaging center....who knows. I actually tried to do more research on Kraft last night and didn't find a whole lot of info.
Because the cheap stuff is intended to be bought with pasta, which is also covered in Italian imagery and is treated as a stereotypically Italian food.
Surprisingly enough, it's possible to buy both cheap food and good food depending on the occasion.
Hydranockz
Member
Or paired with wine, where locale is very important to consumers.
Sickboy007
Member
Seems a little reductive to say that the original producers haven't built any good will in the US on their own. The EU exports tons of dairy products in the american market, and you could reverse your argument by saying that the reputation of the original, high quality products have driven the sales of the knock-offs as well.
UltimaPooh
Member
Only one that has an argument is Parmasean.
The rest of them have no affiliation with the country except that their recipe originated there.
The rest of them have no affiliation with the country except that their recipe originated there.
yep there's so much pig-headedness i can almost taste bacon
The same goes for Gouda. Not a protected term. I don't get the logic behind this.
Canada did alright as they agreed that only new cheeses made in Canada could keep the name as the cheeses originally produced in Europe. While new chese producers cannot use the name. I say the US should change nothing, but if they do then do no more than Canada did and it is not a big deal.A big point in the article that was not bolded, but there. European officials were apparently satisfied with this.
Has the Daily Mail opened a US branch? Endless headlines about EU enforcing regulations on food names and faux shock horror nonsense.
For those wondering about cheddar I think the reason it never became protected is partly because there say little demand for it and partly because it considered too generic. Cheddar made in around cheddar has exclusive rights to be called 'West Country Farmhouse Cheddar'. I assume a similar solution may work in the US for parmesan. Funnily enough Stilton is protected but not by the village of Stilton. It's actually made elsewhere.
For those wondering about cheddar I think the reason it never became protected is partly because there say little demand for it and partly because it considered too generic. Cheddar made in around cheddar has exclusive rights to be called 'West Country Farmhouse Cheddar'. I assume a similar solution may work in the US for parmesan. Funnily enough Stilton is protected but not by the village of Stilton. It's actually made elsewhere.
It's not the same though.
PdotMichael
Banned
It's more the other way around. Using the famous names of European foods to sell cheap substitute products.
Wow you must be a hit at parties.
Skellig Gra
Member
It's cheese from 5,000 miles away. Anybody with even a mild interest in eating quality food knows what the real stuff is. It's not really on a lot of peoples lists of important issues. Unless you make a living as cheesemaker in Europe I don't see why you care so much.
If it's not an important issue there shouldn't be a problem with the proposition, right?
Same with the Dutch cheeses. The Dutch cheese lobby did a shitty job so "Gouda" or "Edam" are not protected afaik.
I think this protectionism is kinda silly in the first place, but if we're protecting Italian cheeses and French wines, then everything else should be protected as well imo.
Skellig Gra
Member
I don't really care either way. But it's part of common English language so it's not going away. It's like how peoples grandparents call all video games "Nintendo games" still. It's a losing battle.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Yeah, you CAN reverse the argument but I think that's a significantly less compelling argument because its highly unlikely that Italian-made Parmesan cheese drove the sales of the crap that Kraft produces and marketed (which is what made it popular here).
If they had an issue with this, why didn't they negotiate it in the last 30 years of PDO trade agreements?
Prinz Eugn
Member
Similar-ish language mask real cultural differences, in this case when it comes to food.
Europeans sound ridiculous to me.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I can't wait for the Irish to take back the word "Whiskey" so we can start calling Jack Daniels' "Tennessee Barrel-Aged Grain Liquor."
Right, that's how it happens. When the name Feta got protected here and all the fetaesque cheeses had to change their names it didn't affect the common language at all, just the branding. It's still the same product, people know it and will call it with the name they're used to.
Kobe beef is different because it actually does have a perceived meaning here. No one buys parmesan cheese because they think it's fancy and from Italy, I promise you. It's a completely genericized name whereas kobe beef is not.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Tell you what Euros, I'll trade you the name "Parmesean," for a written admission that U.S. beer is better than European beer.
Let's make a deal. We'll let you use the name Parmesan if you agree to lift your ban on Kinder eggs. How's that?
Or how Adobe doesn't like people using photoshop as a generic verb.
You just want to choke all of our children to death, leading to the demise of America! I'm on to you!
This is one of the best posts I've ever seen here.
Maybe it's you, man.
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