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Apple TV |OT|

holygeesus

holygeesus

Banned
Quasar said:
So even if it perfectly played my bluray mkvs and id a total passthrough of dtshd ma and truehd audio I still wouldn't use it as my default player I don't think.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering if part of the reason why it is only working properly for some people, is because they have displays that somehow correct the framerate problems. The Apple TV can only operate at 60/50Hz and of course film material is recorded at 23.976 frames per second, which doesn't fit precisely into either of those rates, hence judder. Maybe certain displays perform frame insertion or pull-down in hardware, which fixes the problem.

Either way, Plex seems to get around this issue, so I'm pretty confident the guys will fix it. Though it is worrying to hear that it is a problem that carried over from the beta.
 
I

infiniteloop

Member
Apple will begin trial production of a fifth-generation Apple TV in December 2015, with supplier Quanta Computer ramping up volume production in the first quarter of 2016, according to Taiwanese website DigiTimes.

The report, citing "sources from Taiwan-based supply chain makers," claims the next-generation Apple TV will feature a new CPU that will "dramatically improve the device's hardware performance."

Apple will also reportedly adopt a "heat-dissipation solution" in the streaming box to handle the faster CPU, but it remains unclear how that would differentiate from the large heat sink in the fourth-generation Apple TV. The report adds the next Apple TV will also gain unspecified "new functions."

The report does not provide a release timeframe for the fifth-generation Apple TV, but it is unlikely to be soon given that Apple just released the fourth-generation Apple TV in late October. Apple beginning volume production in early 2016 makes it plausible for a mid- to late-2016 launch.

DigiTimes has a mixed track record at reporting on Apple's upcoming product plans, so this rumor should be treated with caution until or unless other reports substantiate these claims in the weeks and months ahead.
Click to expand...

http://www.macrumors.com/2015/12/04/apple-tv-5-production-early-2016-rumor/
 
I

infiniteloop

Member
Yeah, at most I can see an A9, 4K compatible Apple TV in Sept '16. Neither of those would really appeal to me as someone who has an ATV4 and no 4K TV.

I'm most interested in Apple's TV streaming service, which doesn't look like it'll come before next Fall anyway.
 
Q

Quasar

Member
holygeesus said:
I'm wondering if part of the reason why it is only working properly for some people, is because they have displays that somehow correct the framerate problems. The Apple TV can only operate at 60/50Hz and of course film material is recorded at 23.976 frames per second, which doesn't fit precisely into either of those rates, hence judder. Maybe certain displays perform frame insertion or pull-down in hardware, which fixes the problem.

Either way, Plex seems to get around this issue, so I'm pretty confident the guys will fix it. Though it is worrying to hear that it is a problem that carried over from the beta.
Click to expand...

Part of that seems to be usuing apples default player. Personally my experience with infuse is with it connected to a tv and set at 60hz. I havent extra judder, just that I have seen some occasional freezes and what could be describd as slowdown.

I get the same thing with my nexus player (though its more extreme) on videos that are vc1 when played by kodi. Thats due to lack of hardware acceleration for vc1 on the nexus player and not enough cpu grunt to do in software. Might be the same case here.
 
H

hardcastlemccormick

Banned
I'd imagine they're laying the groundwork for 4K on iTunes in 2016 or 2017, and they want to have an Apple TV ready for that day. Apple might want to standardize around the A9 chip next as well.
 
Q

Quasar

Member
hardcastlemccormick said:
I'd imagine they're laying the groundwork for 4K on iTunes in 2016 or 2017, and they want to have an Apple TV ready for that day. Apple might want to standardize around the A9 chip next as well.
Click to expand...

Certainly supplier sources are already talking about a newer more powerful 2016 model. Which I'm glad about if true. It needs to be on tne same cycle as phones and tablets if its to be more than a streaming box.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
hardcastlemccormick said:
I'd imagine they're laying the groundwork for 4K on iTunes in 2016 or 2017, and they want to have an Apple TV ready for that day. Apple might want to standardize around the A9 chip next as well.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it have made Meroe sense to standardise from the outset? They aren't doing huge volumes of these things, but the baseline for developers is now A8 - A9 would have been great for games etc as a proper baseline.

If they refresh that quickly it'll be annoying and feel like the iPad 3 all over again (that one still annoys me)
 
C

chadskin

Member
I said I'd wait for the Amazon Prime app to arrive first but I took advantage of a good offer here (€130 for the 32GB version instead of Apple's €180 RRP) and dig it so far, not perfect but lots of promise.

Especially love the NFL app + NFL Gamepass, quality is a noticeable step up over the Chromecast 1 and really, really amazing.

Bit baffled Spotify doesn't have an app yet, neither at least a Spotify Connect app nor a full-blown client. I also miss some other apps and the UI of some apps that are available is rather lackluster but all of which is expected at this point.

Hopefully the ATV does well, both for Apple as well as developers, and we'll see support continue to improve over the course of next few months and beyond.
 
H

hardcastlemccormick

Banned
mrklaw said:
Wouldn't it have made Meroe sense to standardise from the outset? They aren't doing huge volumes of these things, but the baseline for developers is now A8 - A9 would have been great for games etc as a proper baseline.

If they refresh that quickly it'll be annoying and feel like the iPad 3 all over again (that one still annoys me)
Click to expand...

I agree with you from the perspective of someone who bought an ATV4, but I kind of figured something like this would happen. I just can't imagine Apple not having a 4K video player on the market by the end of the same year that 4K Blu-Ray hits the market.
 
E

Emarv

Member
Thinking about buying one of these for Christmas. Does it work with Harmony remotes? I have a Harmony 650 that runs my living room. I know the remote feels good and the voice search is good, but I still want the option to use my Harmony if I need to.

Anybody use a Harmony with the new ATV?
 
E

Enzom21

Member
Emarv said:
Thinking about buying one of these for Christmas. Does it work with Harmony remotes? I have a Harmony 650 that runs my living room. I know the remote feels good and the voice search is good, but I still want the option to use my Harmony if I need to.

Anybody use a Harmony with the new ATV?
Click to expand...

It works fine with my Harmony One.
 
C

chadskin

Member
Emarv said:
Thinking about buying one of these for Christmas. Does it work with Harmony remotes? I have a Harmony 650 that runs my living room. I know the remote feels good and the voice search is good, but I still want the option to use my Harmony if I need to.

Anybody use a Harmony with the new ATV?
Click to expand...

I have the 650 as well and it works great, just add the 4th-gen ATV as a new device in the MyHarmony app and you're good to go.

However, you can't play games with it and you can't access the app switcher. On the ATV remote you access the latter by pressing the Home button twice but if you do that on the Harmony, there's too long of a delay after the first press and it thus doesn't recognize the prompt. I created a sequence and tied it to a button but to no avail either.

Neither of which is a deal breaker, though, and everything else works just as you'd expect.
 
E

Enzom21

Member
Majine said:
Didn't they tease folders a while ago?

Wonder when that's coming...
Click to expand...
No, they were found in the OS
img_0402.png
Click to expand...
http://9to5mac.com/2015/11/04/app-folders-tvos-apple-tv/
 
I

infiniteloop

Member
Alex Weprin ‏@alexweprin 23h23 hours ago
Hmm. CBS CEO Les Moonves said that Apple, after making inroads to streaming video service "has slowed down."

Jay Yarow ‏@jyarow 3m3 minutes ago
Les Moonves talking about Apple TV streaming service. Says they were thinking $35 per month, but seem to have hit pause. #ignition2015



booo
 
dream

dream

Member
As a corollary to my complaint about what an unexpected barren wasteland the tvOS App Store is, TouchArcade is reporting that they're hearing some of the top apps on the store are making $100/day at best.

I think it's probably a little early to pronounce this "the future of TV is apps" directive dead, but Apple really needs to jumpstart this marketplace before it's too late.
 
Q

Quasar

Member
Enzom21 said:
MrMc the Kodi fork is in the AppStore.
$5.99 for now, will be $9.99 later.
Click to expand...

Tried it out. Like infuse It only outputs the dts core from dts ma tracks.

More of an issue is the controls for me. Unlike all other apps where I use the edges of the trackpad as a dpad this doesn't recognise that which I find makes menus a real hassle.
 
I

infiniteloop

Member
dream said:
As a corollary to my complaint about what an unexpected barren wasteland the tvOS App Store is, TouchArcade is reporting that they're hearing some of the top apps on the store are making $100/day at best.

I think it's probably a little early to pronounce this "the future of TV is apps" directive dead, but Apple really needs to jumpstart this marketplace before it's too late.
Click to expand...

They vastly need to improve the discoverability of the tvOS app store.
If they want games to succeed they need to drop the dumb remote requirement.
 
Q

Quasar

Member
dream said:
As a corollary to my complaint about what an unexpected barren wasteland the tvOS App Store is, TouchArcade is reporting that they're hearing some of the top apps on the store are making $100/day at best.

I think it's probably a little early to pronounce this "the future of TV is apps" directive dead, but Apple really needs to jumpstart this marketplace before it's too late.
Click to expand...

Maybe a reflection of atv sales. I'll admit I've not bought anything aside from media player apps in the search for something as good as plex but with dts support. If it wasn't for that I would not have bought any apps.
 
dream

dream

Member
Quasar said:
Maybe a reflection of atv sales. I'll admit I've not bought anything aside from media player apps in the search for something as good as plex but with dts support. If it wasn't for that I would not have bought any apps.
Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat, but that's not for lack of interest; there's just nothing to buy. There are certain genres that would really work well on AppleTV, like adventure games. Yet stuff like Grim Fandango and Broken Age, both of which already run on iOS platforms, aren't there. People just seem thoroughly uninterested in developing for, or even porting code to, this platform, and that baffles me.
 
Q

Quasar

Member
dream said:
I'm in the same boat, but that's not for lack of interest; there's just nothing to buy. There are certain genres that would really work well on AppleTV, like adventure games. Yet stuff like Grim Fandango and Broken Age, both of which already run on iOS platforms, aren't there. People just seem thoroughly uninterested in developing for, or even porting code to, this platform, and that baffles me.
Click to expand...

I'm just not interested in games for it, at least as long as they are ports from other platforms.

I'd be more interested in non-game apps I think.
 
M

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
Quasar said:
I'm just not interested in games for it, at least as long as they are ports from other platforms.
Click to expand...

That's kind of the trouble right now as doing ports makes more sense than specifically and exclusively targeting the platform right now.

Our strategy at PikPok has been to view it as an incremental platform where if the Apple TV version struggles to monetize, it at least might drive more installs back on mobile, especially given iCloud support allows you to move back and forth.

That's what we did for Breakneck, and our next Apple TV game which releases next week will be the same.

Will probably be some time before we would consider supporting Apple TV exclusively, though we'll see how this holiday period pans out and where our revenues and installs end up for it.
 
Q

Quasar

Member
Mario said:
That's kind of the trouble right now as doing ports makes more sense than specifically and exclusively targeting the platform right now.
Click to expand...

Sure. Its understandable, even just from the pov of needing to understand the platform better before making stuff designed for tvos and the remote.

Just that as I own both a ipad and a ps4 and a pc its tough to consider any tvos game. I guess its the same struggle vita has.
 
M

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
Quasar said:
Sure. Its understandable, even just from the pov of needing to understand the platform better before making stuff designed for tvos and the remote.

Just that as I own both a ipad and a ps4 and a pc its tough to consider any tvos game. I guess its the same struggle vita has.
Click to expand...

We do have one interesting idea for one of our games to turn it into a multiplayer party game for Apple TV.

That would have the benefit of being a unique experience crafted specifically for the platform while still driving people to install the mobile version at the same time.

Holding off until after the holidays to decide whether that will be viable.
 
dream

dream

Member
Mario said:
That's kind of the trouble right now as doing ports makes more sense than specifically and exclusively targeting the platform right now.

Our strategy at PikPok has been to view it as an incremental platform where if the Apple TV version struggles to monetize, it at least might drive more installs back on mobile, especially given iCloud support allows you to move back and forth.

That's what we did for Breakneck, and our next Apple TV game which releases next week will be the same.

Will probably be some time before we would consider supporting Apple TV exclusively, though we'll see how this holiday period pans out and where our revenues and installs end up for it.
Click to expand...

It seems weird, though, that we aren't even really seeing ports. How tricky is it to scale an iPad game up to tvOS?
 
Z

Zeyphersan

Banned
Is it just me or is there no way to browse my Apple Music (iCloud Music Library) playlists on the TV? Like everything else I can find (songs, albums, artists). Am I just blind?
 
M

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
dream said:
It seems weird, though, that we aren't even really seeing ports. How tricky is it to scale an iPad game up to tvOS?
Click to expand...

There are multiple barriers that might combine to make an iOS to tvOS conversion tricky and slow including

  • devs have only had hardware and SDKs a couple of months, and this is a hard time to get through submission in a timely manner typically
  • 200mb size limit on Apple TV for larger games, and needing to implement on demand resources
  • Apple TV is actually lower resolution than Retina iPad which may introduce downsizing tasks or clarity issues
  • moving from a touch based menu system to one you have to scroll through intuitively is in a lot of cases non trivial
  • other changes to controls for gameplay
  • lack of advertising and incentivized videos solutions that a monetization model might rely on (some early providers are moving into the space though)
  • no in-app Facebook connectivity which is a significant part of some apps and games

Some games might be hit with most or all of these issues.

Not to mention the opportunity cost of working on an Apple TV port versus continuing to update the iOS version (or work on something else).

Still, I imagine for a lot of people it has been worth it, even in the face of some people reporting (presumably) lower than expected returns. So far, we are happy with our results.
 
holygeesus

holygeesus

Banned
Quasar said:
Tried it out. Like infuse It only outputs the dts core from dts ma tracks.

More of an issue is the controls for me. Unlike all other apps where I use the edges of the trackpad as a dpad this doesn't recognise that which I find makes menus a real hassle.
Click to expand...

Apart from the control issues (which they are aware of and working on apparently) this is a really solid app. Been playing with it all afternoon and it's not skipped a beat for me. It is really quite something for an app like this to be allowed by Apple, as the flexibility it allows for is on another level to any other video player I've seen so far. You can even play with deinterlacing, lip-sync adjustment etc. Many, many options in there.

I'm a newcomer to Kodi, so haven't quite figured out how to get metadata to the same level as Plex manages, but so far it's well worth the cash for me, unlike Infuse.
 
Q

Quasar

Member
holygeesus said:
I'm a newcomer to Kodi, so haven't quite figured out how to get metadata to the same level as Plex manages, but so far it's well worth the cash for me, unlike Infuse.
Click to expand...

Yeah.

One thing...has anyone gotten extensions to install? I tried to access the video extensions but I got a 'cannot find server' error.
 
C

chadskin

Member
^ Extensions don't work except the PVR ones. No support for existing skins, either.

The MrMC people intend to release the source code of their fork and then we'll possibly get an official Kodi version which will hopefully be compatible with extensions. But that's probably half a year or more away.
 
Q

Quasar

Member
chadskin said:
^ Extensions don't work except the PVR ones. No support for existing skins, either.

The MrMC people intend to release the source code of their fork and then we'll possibly get an official Kodi version which will hopefully be compatible with extensions. But that's probably half a year or more away.
Click to expand...

Bummer. All I wanted was one of the metadata extensions. Makes me wonder why they even kept the option in there then.
 
E

Enzom21

Member
chadskin said:
^ Extensions don't work except the PVR ones. No support for existing skins, either.

The MrMC people intend to release the source code of their fork and then we'll possibly get an official Kodi version which will hopefully be compatible with extensions. But that's probably half a year or more away.
Click to expand...
Source code is out.
Quasar said:
Bummer. All I wanted was one of the metadata extensions. Makes me wonder why they even kept the option in there then.
Click to expand...
They plan on having some sort of user addon support as well as themes.
MrMC said:
Memphiz said:
MrMc is not Kodi - it has Python addons Stripped off for example and other stuff which makes it Apple AppStore compliant...
Click to expand...

Memphiz is correct, python has been stripped. Major no-no for App Store. Unfortunately the existing Kodi python/addons structure has become a haven for pirates and parasites looking to make quick profits with little effort so I am glad to see it get nuked. There is a plan for a replacement addons concept that is acceptable in the App Store. While this will not make the first release, it is defiantly on the list to complete. It will knock your socks off and result in many utterances of OMFG and that's all I will say for now.
Click to expand...

MrMC said:
staycrunchy said:
This is awesome. Super excited to get MrMC/Kodi working in my AppleTV. A couple questions I'm wondering:

- Will your fork retain the ability to install skins? If so, how will we get them downloaded?
- I'm assuming all customizations that happens in the advancedsettings camp file will either have to be moved to the GUI or left out right?

Regardless of the above, this is awesome work, huge thanks to you for all your hard work.
Click to expand...

User downloaded skins... not for the first release. In theory, skins are just xml descriptors that do not contain executable code. That would be permitted under App Store rules. But if you dig into most skins, they contain python code and that will not be possible. Also there is a 200MB app limit (enforced) so we do have to watch our installed footprint.

Die advancedsettings.xml, die :) Anything we need from there moves to GUI, such as mysql setup.
Click to expand...

http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=238524
More updates about Kodi will most likely be here.
 
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