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[rezuth]

http://9to5mac.com/2015/10/19/apple...d-to-mission-motorcycles-bankruptcy-says-ceo/

San Francisco-based Mission Motorcycles, a maker of high-end electric motorcycles, recently filed for bankruptcy amid financial troubles. In the filing, current CEO Mark Seeger said the company is so low on cash that it can’t afford to pay for an attorney for the bankruptcy process, but while recently talking with Reuters, former CEO Derek Kaufman dismissed the company’s lack of money and instead blamed Mission’s demise on Apple’s poaching of top engineers…



San Francisco-based Mission Motorcycles, a maker of high-end electric motorcycles, recently filed for bankruptcy amid financial troubles. In the filing, current CEO Mark Seeger said the company is so low on cash that it can’t afford to pay for an attorney for the bankruptcy process, but while recently talking with Reuters, former CEO Derek Kaufman dismissed the company’s lack of money and instead blamed Mission’s demise on Apple’s poaching of top engineers…

Rumors are all but confirmed that Apple has been developing its own electric vehicle under Project Titan and Kaufman wouldn’t be the first person deploring Apple’s hiring efforts for the project. Battery maker A123 Systems filed a lawsuit against Apple earlier this year for poaching five of its engineers and Tesla CEO Elon Musk has often commented on the Cupertino company trying to hire automotive engineers from Tesla.
In the case of Mission, Kaufman said Apple hired two key engineers from his team as the company was trying to close a round of funding. After the engineers left for Apple, the investors backed out and consequently more employees left.

According to Reuters, Apple hired Nancy Sun, Mission’s vice president of electrical engineering, Mark Sherwood, director of power train systems engineering, and Eyal Cohen, vice president of software and electrical engineering.

Kaufman said:

“Mission had a great group of engineers, specifically electric drive expertise. Apple knew that – they wanted it, and they went and got it.”

Following Mission’s financial troubles, other employees joined Tesla and Harley-Davidson, the company had previously worked with the later on their electric motorcycle project: LiveWire.

Before stopping their operations, Mission was working on two motorcycles: Mission RS, a racing bike. and Mission R, a street bike (see picture above). The company had developed its own system of battery pack and charging algorithms. They were advertising a range of 150 miles on a single charge.

Project Titan keeps driving along, claiming victims in its way.

 

[valkillmore]

I can't wait to see what they end up producing.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

Welcome to capitalism.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Egh, it's good for employees so....oh whelps.

 

[Sylas]

And that's why non-competes are written into employment contracts.

 

[infiniteloop]

Apple just hired all the people mission motorcycles didn't want.

 

[robochimp]

And that's why non-competes are written into employment contracts.

Very few states have laws giving non-competes any teeth.

 

[KHarvey16]

And that's why non-competes are written into employment contracts.

Illegal in California.

Unless there's more to this it sounds like whining to blame the company that lured your engineers away.

 

[ClosingADoor]

It sucks for the company, but if the employees got a better offer somewhere else, that's fair game. Draw up better contracts.

 

[NervousXtian]

Well, your fault for not having no-compete clauses in their contracts. The workers had the right to go where they got the best offer.

The race bike they actually raced once was pretty badass though... but there's more to it than Apple poaching here.. they were managed very poorly.

 

[Cromat]

Seems fair, Apple has a right to make compelling offers to top talent and they have have a right to accept those offers. And it's not like Apple is developing weapons of mass destruction, they're also making electric vehicles.

 

[blackjaw]

Business fails due to poor business model, blames Apple, news at 11

 

[RumblingRosco]

Well, your fault for not having no-compete clauses in their contracts. The workers had the right to go where they got the best offer.

The race bike they actually raced once was pretty badass though... but there's more to it than Apple poaching here.. they were managed very poorly.

California outlawed non-compete clauses. So maybe it's their fault for basing the company in California.

 

[Couleurs]

In the filing, current CEO Mark Seeger said the company is so low on cash that it can’t afford to pay for an attorney for the bankruptcy process, but while recently talking with Reuters, former CEO Derek Kaufman dismissed the company’s lack of money and instead blamed Mission’s demise on Apple’s poaching of top engineers

Why would the engineers want to leave a company with no money? It just doesn't make sense, it must be Apple's fault

 

[giga]

Hopefully judge Lucy Koh comes down hard on them for these unfair practices.

 

[dallow_bg]

Why would the engineers want to leave a company with no money? It just doesn't make sense, it must be Apple's fault

Investors left after top employees left.

 

[Krauser Kat]

non competes are illegal? fuck that. Great employees are the backbone of a great place to work. If the biggest wallet in town always has the best employees by scavenging from companies we will end up with less innovation.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

non competes are illegal? fuck that. Great employees are the backbone of a great place to work. If the biggest wallet in town always has the best employees by scavenging from companies we will end up with less innovation.

Start-ups can compete with larger competitors by offering equity. Further restricting employee rights through non-compete clauses is a terrible idea.

 

[Just take it with you.]

In Capitalist America, Apple takes bite out of you!

 

[Sylas]

Very few states have laws giving non-competes any teeth.

Illegal in California.

Unless there's more to this it sounds like whining to blame the company that lured your engineers away.

Oh weird. You learn something new every day. In that case, yeah. It's not your employees fault that they have desirable skills and another company can provide better for them.

 

[entremet]

non competes are illegal? fuck that. Great employees are the backbone of a great place to work. If the biggest wallet in town always has the best employees by scavenging from companies we will end up with less innovation.

Nah. Employers need to bring more to the table. That's all. Employers have enough power as is. At least in America.

 

[Dude Abides]

non competes are illegal? fuck that. Great employees are the backbone of a great place to work. If the biggest wallet in town always has the best employees by scavenging from companies we will end up with less innovation.

Yeah competition is bad.

 

[Hari Seldon]

No sympathy, the employees got more money, which is how it should work!

 

[DOWN]

If they can't even file for bankruptcy, it seems like they have more trouble managing than just in retention.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

Oh weird. You learn something new every day. In that case, yeah. It's not your employees fault that they have desirable skills and another company can provide better for them.

Just to be clear, its standard non-competes that are generally not enforceable. You can write a contract so that they are but the employee / contractor has to be compensated for it. For instance, one of my friends is a contractor in medical device sales. As part of his deal if he went to a competitor he couldn't poach clients for I think two years. But as part of that he also gets a retention bonus for those clients staying and would for those two years.

 

[Renekton]

Can this guy consider a career in talent management / recruitment?

In a startup, being able to recruit staff that Apple poached so hard, has to be something.

 

[Blackhead]

Hopefully judge Lucy Koh comes down hard on them for these unfair practices.

Thatsbait.gif

 

[boiled goose]

Pay them more?

 

[MarkMclovin]

Unless Apple came up with contracts that this company had no way to re-negotiate with their staff with, I see no problem with this.

 

[Krauser Kat]

Yeah competition is bad.

i dont think the richest company in the world buying the entire capital a new company has (employees) during their run up phase. competition.

Great of the employees, terrible for innovation.

 

[John Dunbar]

i thought a motorcycle company was going bankrupt because someone was stealing apples and was very confused.

 

[djplaeskool]

Pay them more?

I'm not sure trying to out-salary Apple is an affordable move.

 

[Netherscourge]

non competes are illegal? fuck that. Great employees are the backbone of a great place to work. If the biggest wallet in town always has the best employees by scavenging from companies we will end up with less innovation.

Salary > Innovation

 

[Hari Seldon]

Can this guy consider a career in talent management / recruitment?

In a startup, being able to recruit staff that Apple poached so hard, has to be something.

Yeah we are only hearing one side of the story. Obviously a startup cannot pay Apple money or benefits, but maybe he should have given up more equity. Also, it is one thing to do a startup with fresh computer science majors, but it is quite another to do it with experts on motors who are probably mid to late career.

 

[NervousXtian]

Didn't know that about California.. then they should have had their most valued employees locked into equity of the company to secure them.

Again, it's their own fault.

 

[poppabk]

No sympathy, the employees got more money, which is how it should work!

I think this is only great for employees in the short term. If small companies get gutted before they have the chance to get big there will be less competition and opportunity in the future.

 

[KHarvey16]

Startups are always risky, and most people who like that environment aren't prioritizing long term stability or huge salaries. The idea that a big company can always pay more and kill startups that may prove to be competition one day is not very consistent with reality. If these people left it's unfair to assume it was only due to pay.

 

[joedan]

Sounds like a great time to get into STEM fields as there should be a great demand for quality engineers.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

I think this is only great for employees in the short term. If small companies get gutted before they have the chance to get big there will be less competition and opportunity in the future.

As opposed to allowing companies to prevent employee's from getting better jobs through non-competes?

 

[Hari Seldon]

I think this is only great for employees in the short term. If small companies get gutted before they have the chance to get big there will be less competition and opportunity in the future.

If small companies want to attract top talent and cannot afford to pay then they need to give up that equity. This owner was probably greedy.

 

[Thebeardofknowledge]

In Capitalist America, Apple takes bite out of you!

😂😂😂😂😂😂

 

[entremet]

Startups are always risky, and most people who like that environment aren't prioritizing long term stability or huge salaries. The idea that a big company can always pay more and kill startups that may prove to be competition one day is not very consistent with reality. If these people left it's unfair to assume it was only due to pay.

Not just that but poorer work life balance, so you really need to work on better compensation packages.

If I'm working on weekends and making less money and no equity, why should I stay if I get better money and hours?

 

[fixedpoint]

non competes are illegal? fuck that. Great employees are the backbone of a great place to work. If the biggest wallet in town always has the best employees by scavenging from companies we will end up with less innovation.

Yeah, signing non-compete contracts is so fun! Corporations are people too, right?

 

[Dougald]

Company was apparently founded in 2007 but I've never once seen a story on them in the motorcyle press, despite there being fairly regular stories on other electric bikes from Zero, Harley Davidson, etc.

Sounds like they're just another startup who didn't get anywhere with their product, and their talent left for greener pastures

 

[sixteen-bit]

i thought a motorcycle company was going bankrupt because someone was stealing apples and was very confused.

Same

Apostrophes are important

 

[KHarvey16]

Not just that but poorer work life balance, so you really need to work on better compensation packages.

If I'm working on weekends and making less money and no equity, why should I stay if I get better money and hours?

That's definitely part of it, and equity could be a huge factor. In the end I think startups attract people willing to do those things, with less pay and job security, to be part of implementing an idea they support or getting in on the ground floor(and taking advantage of that equity). It may be simply that bigger salaries/benefits lured these people away from that but I think it needs to be considered that the other possibilities are that they had sufficient equity yet saw little or no future there or no longer bought into the vision, etc. If they had too little equity that would also be a problem. Of course management isn't going to concede any of that and so far that's who we've heard from. I'd love to hear what the engineers have to say!

 

[30yearsofhurt]

 

[jstripes]

Company was apparently founded in 2007 but I've never once seen a story on them in the motorcyle press, despite there being fairly regular stories on other electric bikes from Zero, Harley Davidson, etc.

Sounds like they're just another startup who didn't get anywhere with their product, and their talent left for greener pastures

This is it.

Another, stable company wants to pay you more and will likely release the product you're working on?

Few things shatter your pride like working hard on something that, beyond your control, never goes anywhere. (I've been there.)

 

[TomJoadsGhost]

Read 'apple poaching', expected scrumping. Eventually there will be an expose of the human cost of that seasonal crime.

 

[poppabk]

Company was apparently founded in 2007 but I've never once seen a story on them in the motorcyle press, despite there being fairly regular stories on other electric bikes from Zero, Harley Davidson, etc.

Sounds like they're just another startup who didn't get anywhere with their product, and their talent left for greener pastures

Then why would Apple hire a bunch of failed engineers. If the story is true, and Apple head hunted them then they had to be doing something right.