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April Wrasslin' |OT| 2017 Season Premiere

Syder

Member
Someone on Wreddit made a great comment on Reigns.
Roman is the asshole jock in school that everyone loves and nerds get bitter over so hardcore fans boo him
I mostly agree. Makes sense to me.
This would be correct if it wasn't for the fact that the majority of the viewing audience hates Reigns, you can't generalise the majority of the audience as 'hardcore fans'. I feel like a very solid majority (60% at least) dislike him at this point. Look at that crowd last Monday, that's a microcosm of the hardcore audience and essentially the majority of the consistent viewing audience (people who watch week-to-week).

Anyone thinking Roman Reigns, the character or his booking, is genius is a mark that's getting worked.

Yeah, there are people that hate Reigns just because he typifies the 'jock' guy and because it's become a meme to hate him but generalising a large portion of the audience as basement dwellers that hate a big, muscle man is so reductive. I saw it a few times in the Mania thread but people need to stop building a strawman of the fans who have an issue with RR's booking and stop looking for backdoor ways to explain why Roman is 'actually a great character' when the simple fact is Roman is a guy that was pushed too much, too soon and his character, or lack thereof, has no defining personality or moral code.

and Triple H's kayfabe 2.0 explanation for why Roman is a secret heel is beyond stupid

Maybe Roman would've worked 10 years ago when there were more casual viewers who'd just cheer him because he looks cool but the demographics of the viewing audience in 2017 skews towards hardcore fans; a demographic that WWE has show time and again it likes to antagonise. People will tell you 'they're just marks that will still watch and buy merch' but Raw viewing figures are just fading away.

Also, on the John Cena comparison, once upon a time Cena was over with everyone, Roman has still yet to be massively over as a singles competitor. The 'You Suck' Angle chants were actually encouraged by WWE as were the 'Cena Sucks' chants to the point WWE benefitted from merch sales selling anti-Cena shirts, let me know when they start making Roman sucks shirts. People appreciate Cena's talent despite the sustained monster push to the forefront of the company for 10 years and staleness of his character. Cena actually has a character and code that he lives by, it may be corny but kids love it and he sells tons of merch. Furthermore, John Cena has had a 5* match and many more great matches and feuds.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
I agree with Dato -- or maybe not, I don't remember exactly what he was saying, but I was thinking -- that wrassle is good-est when there are like ten dudes to care about and a bunch of nobodies playing support. I want laser-focus instead of scattershot. Or maybe I'm just tired and don't know what I'm saying.

It's more like four or five. Think early 1997 WWF.
 

cordy

Banned
This would be correct if it wasn't for the fact that the majority of the viewing audience hates Reigns, you can't generalise the majority of the audience as 'hardcore fans'. I feel like a very solid majority (60% at least) dislike him at this point. Look at that crowd last Monday, that's a microcosm of the hardcore audience and essentially the majority of the consistent viewing audience (people who watch week-to-week).

In his comparison he's saying.

Nerds = Fans in general (people who don't know who he really is, hardcore or casual doesn't matter tbh)
Everyone else who loves Reigns = All the other wrestlers, personnel backstage, officials, stage crew, catering, other legends and etc (people who know who he really is)

It goes back to Jericho's comment on the podcast a few days ago where he said "there's Roman (the guy with the push we always see) and then there's Joe (the guy who everyone loves). People hate Roman. People (the people who know Joe) love Joe.

And I'd actually say 90% of the audience hates Reigns. Hardcore, casual, that doesn't matter because at the end of the day a fan is a fan who doesn't see the real Reigns behind the camera most of the time. Most of the audience hates the guy especially after the Taker situation.

Given what a great amount of the heads think about fans, it's no surprise to me that Vince would be ok with it. He is the guy who called fans sheep.
 

Mahonay

Banned
In his comparison he's saying.

Nerds = Fans in general (people who don't know who he really is, hardcore or casual doesn't matter tbh)
Everyone else who loves Reigns = All the other wrestlers, personnel backstage, officials, stage crew, catering, other legends and etc (people who know who he really is)

And I'd actually say 90% of the audience hates Reigns. Hardcore, casual, that doesn't matter because at the end of the day a fan is a fan who doesn't see the real Reigns behind the camera most of the time. Most of the audience hates the guy especially after the Taker situation.

Given what a great amount of the heads think about fans, it's no surprise to me that Vince would be ok with it. He is the guy who called fans sheep.
Yerp. It all makes sense when you just remember WWE despises it's fans.
 

cordy

Banned
It goes back to Jericho's comment on the podcast a few days ago where he said "there's Roman (the guy with the push we always see) and then there's Joe (the guy who everyone loves)." People hate Roman. People (the people who know Joe) love Joe. Joe, the guy backstage people rave about, needs to be seen. Reigns on the other hand, he's damaged due to bad booking and issues. A great amount of fans think Joe is Reigns because they have some somewhat of similar traits when really they're not if that makes any sense.

Reigns is a guy who believes he can do everything alone and it's yard. On that same token, Joe was on the podcast saying that it's all about teamwork, he's grateful to everyone who helps him and even lays down for him and if he wanted to he'd make sure everyone was WWE Champion but he can't since that's not what the WWE does.
 
If NXT is any example, just have Roman lose a "Loser Leaves WWE" match and then have him show up next week wearing a cheap lucha mask. El Romano Reinado.
 
It goes back to Jericho's comment on the podcast a few days ago where he said "there's Roman (the guy with the push we always see) and then there's Joe (the guy who everyone loves)." People hate Roman. People (the people who know Joe) love Joe. Joe, the guy backstage people rave about, needs to be seen. Reigns on the other hand, he's damaged due to bad booking and issues. A great amount of fans think Joe is Reigns because they have some somewhat of similar traits when really they're not if that makes any sense.

Reigns is a guy who believes he can do everything alone and it's yard. On that same token, Joe was on the podcast saying that it's all about teamwork, he's grateful to everyone who helps him and even lays down for him and if he wanted to he'd make sure everyone was WWE Champion but he can't since that's not what the WWE does.

Reigns on UpUpDownDown seems like a real chill person.
 

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
#BROKEN Matt Hardy‏ Verified Account @MATTHARDYBRAND Apr 6th
What a TANTALIZING entrance.

lol, please be broken Matt :(

edit: oops, it doesnt link but he was linking to Nakamura's SD entrance in that tweet
 

cordy

Banned
They really need to send guys to NXT for a bit to help them out for a few months. Worked with Kidd. Send Crews, Dallas, hell Ziggler.
 

Rimfya

Banned
Reigns on UpUpDownDown seems like a real chill person.

The glimpses we get of Reigns being himself are great. His character would be 100x better if he stopped trying to act tough and instead was completely chill about constantly winning everything without trying.
 

Cagey

Banned
f you were anything like me in school in terms of nerdom, and let's face it most wrestling fans fall into this category, we hated the fact that people who acted like this were revered and treated as a heroes anywhere they went, despite being the complete opposite in reality. It made us bitter and angry. This is the character I believe that Roman Reigns is. Casual fans love him because he's the kayfabe super talented good looking guy about the place. Us hardcore fans hate him because he represents everything that a good guy or face shouldn't, he's arrogant, he picks on our favourites, he wins all the time, and we're jealous that everyone loves this asshole for some reason. Why doesn't the school, i.e Vince, love Sami Zayn, the ultimate good guy who's nice to everybody and gets amazing grades ahead of this jerk?

"Why do women always date assholes instead of good guys like me 😥"

Man, speak for yourself, random Reddit nerd.
 
If a guy who only 10% of the audience likes is #2 in merch sales, what does it say for the rest of the roster who the audience supposedly loves?
 

cordy

Banned
Reigns on UpUpDownDown seems like a real chill person.
Yeah he was great there. I liked him on Jericho's podcast a few days ago too. I actually feel bad for the guy these days now because even he hates how he booked. I remember when they had that Sheamus feud and Reigns was on a ladder. Reigns actually looked depressed that he was saying shit he didn't wanna say.

I can't even imagine the look on dude's face when Vince told him that he's opening Raw after retiring Taker. He knew what it was.
 

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
Stone Cold loves the Broken gimmick...

I did not see that coming :eek:
 

Syder

Member
In his comparison he's saying.

Nerds = Fans in general (people who don't know who he really is, hardcore or casual doesn't matter tbh)
Everyone else who loves Reigns = All the other wrestlers, personnel backstage, officials, stage crew, catering, other legends and etc (people who know who he really is)

It goes back to Jericho's comment on the podcast a few days ago where he said "there's Roman (the guy with the push we always see) and then there's Joe (the guy who everyone loves). People hate Roman. People (the people who know Joe) love Joe.

And I'd actually say 90% of the audience hates Reigns. Hardcore, casual, that doesn't matter because at the end of the day a fan is a fan who doesn't see the real Reigns behind the camera most of the time. Most of the audience hates the guy especially after the Taker situation.

Given what a great amount of the heads think about fans, it's no surprise to me that Vince would be ok with it. He is the guy who called fans sheep.
What difference does it make if Roman is an asshole or a great guy though? I've constantly said, I'd have a beer with Roman Reigns, he seems like a cool dude, but that doesn't really have any bearing on whether or not I like a wrestler, if anything, finding out a wrestler I already like is a nice guy is just a bonus. When Stone Cold is raising the WWE Championship above his head are people asking 'I wonder if that guy is nice to his colleagues'?


Reigns is usually cheered by over half the audience. More casual fans do actually like the guy.
Over half doesn't seem right but I've never been at a show... and the casual fan is disappearing anyway.

"Why do women always date assholes instead of good guys like me ��"

Man, speak for yourself, random Reddit nerd.
Exactly. People need to stop building this strawman that people who don't like Roman are salty nerds.


If a guy who only 10% of the audience likes is #2 in merch sales, what does it say for the rest of the roster who the audience supposedly loves?
No one actually knows the merch stats other than what guys like Meltzer say and the stats aren't as important as they used to be, and that's disregarding the fact that the apparent 'Top 2' (Cena and Roman) have a significant amount more merchandise available than other superstars.
 

Rimfya

Banned
If a guy who only 10% of the audience likes is #2 in merch sales, what does it say for the rest of the roster who the audience supposedly loves?

How many times must this be posted?

The bigger failure is someone with as big a push as Reigns not being #1.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
If a guy who only 10% of the audience likes is #2 in merch sales, what does it say for the rest of the roster who the audience supposedly loves?

At most shows you clearly hear at least half the people cheering for Reigns. He also does great at house shows. It's only when fighting someone more popular than him or in a really smarky crowd that the boos completely drown out the cheers.

It's the same thing that happened to Cena a decade ago, only Cena could just talk his way out of it (usually, there was a period where even HHH was cheered over Cena) and Roman cannot do this to save his life.
 

Heroman

Banned
At most shows you clearly hear at least half the people cheering for Reigns. He also does great at house shows. It's only when fighting someone more popular than him or in a really smarky crowd that the boos completely drown out the cheers.

It's the same thing that happened to Cena a decade ago, only Cena could just talk his way out of it (usually, there was a period where even HHH was cheered over Cena) and Roman cannot do this to save his life.
Great? Roman doesn't draw at house show and Cena was way more over then Roman ever will be.
 
If a guy who only 10% of the audience likes is #2 in merch sales, what does it say for the rest of the roster who the audience supposedly loves?

It probably says something about fans willingness to buy absolute dogshit designed shirts vs kids who, based on my experience in Orlando, are absolutely in love with Reigns and his apparel.
 

Syder

Member
At most shows you clearly hear at least half the people cheering for Reigns. He also does great at house shows. It's only when fighting someone more popular than him or in a really smarky crowd that the boos completely drown out the cheers.

It's the same thing that happened to Cena a decade ago, only Cena could just talk his way out of it (usually, there was a period where even HHH was cheered over Cena) and Roman cannot do this to save his life.
If we're citing Meltzer for merch sales, I'm pretty sure Meltzer has said Roman has been an underwhelming draw at some house shows.
 
I knew it, puss, trying to get me from behind. Can't ever get me in a fair shoot!
Blue,
zxv1EHZ.gif



😆

You're aight in my book
 

Oersted

Member
If a guy who only 10% of the audience likes is #2 in merch sales, what does it say for the rest of the roster who the audience supposedly loves?

Godemperor Reigns is beating New Day? I can't really imagine that, these guys put Booty Os over. Or is it because they are a group and therefore not counted?
 

Heroman

Banned
The only reason why Roman is still the dawg is because of the death of the ppv market and the idea that ratings don't matter. If they still used PPV Roman wouldn't be champ.
 

Rimfya

Banned
Do WWE have a plan to get new viewers?

Keep pushing a champ your most vocal fans can't stand in Roman. And one they no longer care about in Orton.
 
Do WWE have a plan to get new viewers?

Keep pushing a champ your most vocal fans can't stand in Roman. And one they no longer care about in Orton.
I sound like a broken record but bring back 24/7 championship on one of the belts and have breaking news on either USA or WWE Network showing a match of it
 

cordy

Banned
What difference does it make if Roman is an asshole or a great guy though? I've constantly said, I'd have a beer with Roman Reigns, he seems like a cool dude, but that doesn't really have any bearing on whether or not I like a wrestler, if anything, finding out a wrestler I already like is a nice guy is just a bonus. When Stone Cold is raising the WWE Championship above his head are people asking 'I wonder if that guy is nice to his colleagues'?
Do you know how many people are soured on wrestlers due to how they see them as a person? For most of us it's no problem because we can separate the person from the character but that's not all of us. I'm sure you've seen people say "well they're awesome but I hate their attitude irl so I don't want them to get that push" or something similar in the past. It's the same people who think because certain wrestlers have friends on the program and they are faces talking to everyone it's ok to bother them in real life. People just have a problem separating the wrestler from the real person. But it's not just in wrestling, goes for other mediums as well such as tv shows, movies, music (well depends on the artist). It goes across the board.

It's like Stephanie having to identify that she plays a character on tv on her twtter. We know why she does it. It's so people won't confuse who she is on tv with who she is in other places.
If we're citing Meltzer for merch sales, I'm pretty sure Meltzer has said Roman has been an underwhelming draw at some house shows.
Ambrose was outselling Reigns in house shows early-mid last year when Reigns was the A show and Ambrose was the B show. Since then Ambrose's stock has gotten higher in the company so who knows how it is now. With that said who knows how it is with Reigns either these days.

I do know with Cena on SD they were beating Raw in house shows lately. There was a report about that a few days ago. That's Cena though.
 

Oersted

Member
Do WWE have a plan to get new viewers?

Keep pushing a champ your most vocal fans can't stand in Roman. And one they no longer care about in Orton.

When everything is said and done, Bray Wyatt will go down as the most squandered opportunity in WWE's history.

First and only time Reigns had something you could call a character was in a feud with Wyatt.

First time in years Orton entertained and didn't sleepwalk was in a Wyatt feud.

Than there was the Cena feud etc.

But everytime, Wyatt's momentum came to a screeching hold.
 

Pikma

Banned
I wonder what will Vince do if/when ITV and hopefully New Japan approach Ranallo, considering they signed JR just to keep him away from WoS

I bet he'll get mad as fuck
 
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