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[klonere]

Nobody moves the needle, not even Cena. Cena was around doing his thing last year, putting on his ROH lite matches, cutting the same promos, popping in to the main event scene and ratings still tanked. Shane O Mac was a one week big spike. Vince coming back originally for Reigns was a one week spike but is no longer a big factor. Brock appeared quite regularly in 2016, with no big ratings change.

You can pop a one week rating but being on WWE TV for anything more than a week or two decreases your drawing power each time. You can't construct a narrative of 'It's Seth! It's Roman! Put Cena back in the main event! Fire all the indie geeks! Hire all the indie geeks! Strowman! More matches! More promos!" as there are so many external factors at play and the internal machinations of the WWE are so bizarre and labyrinthian that you can't point to one issue or even a clump of issues as the cause or solution of ratings decline.

In the end, as I said in the previous post, VKM still gets paid more and more each year from USA and they don't care about WWE ratings because their original programming is getting hammered. Also shitty, tanked ratings seemed to not harm attendance or dollars spent last weekend.

 

[Fox318]

I wonder, when Brock's contract is up, who they'll feed him to in his sendoff match? Or if he'll even cooperate with that. No idea when that is, but surely he's not under contract forever.

As long as Brock gets paid he will do his job.

 

[Mahonay]

Nobody moves the needle, not even Cena. Cena was around doing his thing last year, putting on his ROH lite matches, cutting the same promos, popping in to the main event scene and ratings still tanked. Shane O Mac was a one week big spike. Vince coming back originally for Reigns was a one week spike but is no longer a big factor. Brock appeared quite regularly in 2016, with no big ratings change.

You can pop a one week rating but being on WWE TV for anything more than a week or two decreases your drawing power each time. You can't construct a narrative of 'It's Seth! It's Roman! Put Cena back in the main event! Fire all the indie geeks! Hire all the indie geeks! Strowman! More matches! More promos!" as there are so many external factors at play and the internal machinations of the WWE are so bizarre and labyrinthian that you can't point to one issue or even a clump of issues as the cause or solution of ratings decline.

In the end, as I said in the previous post, VKM still gets paid more and more each year from USA and they don't care about WWE ratings because their original programming is getting hammered. Also shitty, tanked ratings seemed to not harm attendance or dollars spent last weekend.

Pretty much my exact assessment of current WWE.

 

[Heroman]

I just think alot less people watch live these days.
DVRs are a way of life, there are maybe two shows that I watch live anymore and even those often I start fifteen minutes late and watch at the beginning due to recording.
I will also say that they recap way too much, spening 10% of their shows recapping.
Stop doing long recaps, recap only important details and make people have to watch to see what is happening.

Arent dvr included in Nielsen tv rating?

 

[Sephzilla]

Honestly I don't think there's going to be anything that significantly and permanently moves WWE's ratings up until Vince quits or dies. I think audiences have generally accepted that the product is vastly inferior to what it was 10-20 years ago and isn't going to change so long as the current regime is in place.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

"Narrative" is such a convenient word to dismiss someone's opinion.

FWIW I don't think Reign's reign is the sole problem. Having three hour shows packed with replays and uninteresting midcard feuds is the problem I'd fix first since that's what actually makes up the majority of Raw.

Sure. It's bulletproof as far as arguments go. I love using it because people ain't got shit to say.

But for real, there is no "fix" for dwindling live TV drops. If live events don't draw based on peoples' ways they consume media, then it stands to reason that ratings aren't a good measuring stick of interest anymore.

So we have a deplorable WWE ratings thread, but nobody checking YouTube views or social media shares. Why? Doesn't fit their narrative.

 

[Bluekaveli]

On what kind of potential involvement Bret could have in the feud between Natalya, Charlotte and Charlotte’s WWE Hall of Fame father “The Nature Boy” Ric Flair:

I kinda feel like throwing down right now and calling Flair out. Me and Ric could have a wheel chair match. First one to tip the other one over in a wheelchair. My luck Ric would probably tip mine over.

Bret's hilarious. I need this right now.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Honestly I don't think there's going to be anything that significantly and permanently moves WWE's ratings up until Vince quits or dies. I think audiences have generally accepted that the product is vastly inferior to what it was 10-20 years ago and isn't going to change so long as the current regime is in place.

TV ratings being an indicator of, well, anything significant will die before Vince does.

 

[Heroman]

Sure. It's bulletproof as far as arguments go. I love using it because people ain't got shit to say.

But for real, there is no "fix" for dwindling live TV drops. If live events don't draw based on peoples' ways they consume media, then it stands to reason that ratings aren't a good measuring stick of interest anymore.

So we have a deplorable WWE ratings thread, but nobody checking YouTube views or social media shares. Why? Doesn't fit their narrative.

The reason why no one brings up YouTube or social media is because wwe doesn't make money from them.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Primo and Epico's new thing had me confused as to wtf they will be doing lol.

jobbing.

 

[Marvel]

jobbing.

Ice cold, and most likely true haha

 

[Anth0ny]

Ratings show a drop across the board for all live TV.

pretty sure football ratings are higher than ever


ratings are in the shitter. it would be nice if they used this as an incentive to put out a better product, but they won't. hopefully they get offered significantly less for their tv deal next time around. by then I'm guessing ratings will be in the low 2s/high 1s consistently.

 

[Bluekaveli]

Actually here are full bullets from Bret's show

Disappointed with WrestleMania booking. Says "logic didn't prevail" and the booking "wasn't up to snuff"

Says he was the man who brought ladder matches to the WWE and can't believe what a "piece of shit match" it's turned into

Disappointed in the IC Title ladder match. "A lot of bullshit, a lot of wasted moves, too much laying around". Calls it a prop match. "Stupid spots that make no sense". Still calls the match the best match on the card

Says he'd line all the bookers up against the wall and shoot them

"Real wrestling is almost dead. CM Punk, Daniel Bryan and Bret Hart, that kind of wrestling is almost dead"

Thought AJ was going to win against Jericho. Called AJ one of the better wrestlers in the company right now, but said the match seemed too choreographed

Says he hates the Styles Clash. "Looks like you just gently brush someone's stomach on the ground". However, he calls it the Calf Crusher (got the two moves confused)

Thought New Day's entrance was pretty cool, even though he didn't understand it that much

Thought it was great to get HBK, Mick and Austin on the show, but thought it was insane to have the babyfaces lose and then have the legends beat both the heels and the babyfaces

"Real mistake" to put LoN over New Day. Win at WrestleMania for New Day would have been great for them. Jokes that maybe Stephanie's kids booked the segment

Really likes Barrett. Says he's done the best with the lame gimmicks he's been given. Thinks Japan may be "his cup of tea". Compares Barrett to Drew Mcintyre. Both really good talents that were never used correctly

Said he'd really like to work with Rusev and Sheamus in the ring. It meant a lot that they cited him as a "dream opponent" and "inspiration" at Axxess

Said he liked Ambrose vs Lesnar because "it did what it was supposed to do". Also says Kendo Sticks hurt. "Wasn't the most exciting, but it was credible and real so points for that". Thinks blood would have made a huge difference

Nakamura vs Zayn was the best match of the whole WrestleMania weekend. Asuka vs Bayley was better than any match on the WrestleMania card

NXT is bringing "real wrestling" to the surface. RAW and WM is "a bunch of morons that sit around creating wrestling. Just writers from Hollywood who don't know anything about the business. Just Vince Russo's in a different uniform"

Everything about Nakamura vs Zayn (from entrances to handshake) was "beautiful wrestling". Made Bret stand and salute. Said the finish to Asuka vs Bayley was also beautiful

The Diva's tag match on the WM pre show was "awesome". Everyone worked hard and got their spots in and he really enjoyed it

Thought Sasha Banks should have won the title. It was her night and it was another bad booking decision

Becky and Sasha Banks were great in the ring and were carrying the match. Constantly refers to Becky as "the Irish girl"

"Charlotte had a lot of holes in her work and you can tell that she's still really green. She's NOT the world's champion. I love Ric Flair and I love Charlotte, she's a great girl but she is SO green and if you know wrestling you know she is not the best one out there. She's there because of her father"

"Nattie is strictly there to groom [Charlotte] and teach her and give her great matches. Charlotte will eventually get there."

"I like Shane, but the reality of it is that he's not a wrestler". Says his little punches were terrible

Said he predicted the finish of the match easily

Liked the Shaq cameo in the ARMBAR. Doesn't know anything about Baron Corbin, but didn't have a problem with the ARMBAR at all

Regarding The Rock's segment: "For me it was just another example of dweebs sitting around a table writing wrestling". Called the whole segment "overly scriped bullshit"

"Truth is The Rock probably showed up and got a bigger paycheck than all the girls, all the midcard guys. You could probably stack up all the paychecks of all the girls and all the Cody Rhodes' in the back and it wouldn't come close to Shaq's pay or The Rock's and that's bullshit. These are the guys and girls on the road 300 days per year, not The Rock"

Says HHH's entrance was like some weird fantasy, including Steph in black spandex

Wasn't offended by the main event, but nothing made him say "wow, I have to watch this again". Cites Shawn vs Taker as a match that made him do that

Finish of the match was "phony bullshit wrestling" and lacklustre. 5/10 for the match

Says the 2 Japanese wrestlers (Nakamura and Asuka) had the best matches of the weekend and those 2 are so far ahead of everyone else in WWE. Says The Rock and Shaq should give their pay to Nakamura, Asuka, Zayn and Bayley

"There was magic this weekend, but it wasn't at WrestleMania"

 

[Sephzilla]

TV ratings being an indicator of, well, anything significant will die before Vince does.

This is also true considering traditional cable is dying a slow death

 

[Deleted member 47027]

The reason why no one brings up YouTube or social media is because wwe doesn't make money from them.

Incorrect, they do AND it drives merch sales. If you don't think that makes money in any way you're very wrong. It drives brand awareness and keeps people engaged.

We have learned in the past that people want to watch on their own schedule. There are MANY people who buy WWE merch despite never watching live. It is a significant presence.

 

[Anth0ny]

"Real wrestling is almost dead. CM Punk, Daniel Bryan and Bret Hart, that kind of wrestling is almost dead"

and that's a shoot

 

[slightconfuse]

HOSS WEDNESDAY

 

[Intheflorsh]

Sure. It's bulletproof as far as arguments go. I love using it because people ain't got shit to say.

But for real, there is no "fix" for dwindling live TV drops. If live events don't draw based on peoples' ways they consume media, then it stands to reason that ratings aren't a good measuring stick of interest anymore.

So we have a deplorable WWE ratings thread, but nobody checking YouTube views or social media shares. Why? Doesn't fit their narrative.

If you want to use social media popularity as a yard stick of success for the WWE, you have to take into account what people are actually talking about. I think it's fair to say the general attitude towards the WWE is negative, at least judging from the almost nonstop complaining that happens on twitter during a raw episode.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

and that's a shoot

There have been amazing WWE "real wrestling" matches in the past year alone. It's not close to being dead at all.

 

[Entropia]

Damn Brett shootin from the hip.

 

[slightconfuse]

TV rating like ppv are not dead. you have to present someting people want to watch(like the walking dead, Flash).

also give people the platform they want to view it on. Netflix has 70 million+ suscibers but TV is dead!!

 

[Deleted member 47027]

If you want to use social media popularity as a yard stick of success for the WWE, you have to take into account what people are actually talking about. I think it's fair to say the general attitude towards the WWE is negative, at least judging from the almost nonstop complaining that happens on twitter during a raw episode.

I think it's wise to take it into account, but the big question is, is what people ARE saying making a difference anywhere? When #cancelWWENetwork was trending, their subs shot UP. Even in this thread, which isn't exactly social media, negativity just rolls on here - yet, people still pay, by and large.

 

[Lothar]

How do we listen to Bret's show? Sounds good. It doesn't look like he'll be holding back as even Austin admits he often does.

 

[Mahonay]

Damn Brett shootin from the hip.

He always does. Shooter for life.

 

[Sephzilla]

Bret seems to think similarly to me regarding WrestleMania. The booking for the show made no logical sense.

 

[klonere]

Incorrect, they do AND it drives merch sales. If you don't think that makes money in any way you're very wrong. It drives brand awareness and keeps people engaged.

We have learned in the past that people want to watch on their own schedule. There are MANY people who buy WWE merch despite never watching live. It is a significant presence.

Merch sales are an infinitesimal portion of overall revenue. Like Q4 TV revenues last year were $60+ million whereas merch turned in something like $8 million. "Digital Media" or however they term it brought in around $5 million. The company isn't built on idiots like me who buy one shirt, its built on the big TV deal with USA and the Network. Social media engagement is all well and good but translating that into concrete returns for shareholders has been a struggle for many companies, not just WWE.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Merch sales are an infinitesimal portion of overall revenue. Like Q4 TV revenues last year were $100+ million whereas merch turned in something like $8 million. The company isn't built on idiots like me who buy one shirt, its built on the big TV deal with USA and the Network. Social media engagement is all well and good but translating that into concrete returns for shareholders has been a struggle for many companies, not just WWE.

This is why the Network was an important move for them to make, and leverages ALL their content so that the value is there even if the current product isn't interesting or great. Obviously they want it to be that, but it gives them a safety net.

Also merch is more than just a sale, it's a walking advertisement for their product, so there's value there as well.

 

[slightconfuse]

Tonight's Lu

Kobra Moon vs Ivilesse
Trios Tournament Begins

 

[Bluekaveli]

Damn Brett shootin from the hip.

He always does. Shooter for life.

They don't call him a Hitman for no reason.

How do we listen to Bret's show? Sounds good. It doesn't look like he'll be holding back as even Austin admits he often does.

Wrestlezone
http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/695...-the-wm32-ladder-match-a-tennesse-town-killer

 

[Mahonay]

Time to watch Starrcade 96' to prime my body for the latest TLF review.

 

[slightconfuse]

This is why the Network was an important move for them to make, and leverages ALL their content so that the value is there even if the current product isn't interesting or great. Obviously they want it to be that, but it gives them a safety net.

Also merch is more than just a sale, it's a walking advertisement for their product, so there's value there as well.

Network also makes their product cheap and disposable which is why they put no effort into anything anymore. they gave mania away for free. they dont have to earn ppls money beacsue people can get the netwrok for the price of a Big Mac

 

[Angry Grimace]

What's stupid about that picture is that he's breaking the fucking law and can get his ass fined for it.

Why is everyone assuming the car is moving

 

[klonere]

This is why the Network was an important move for them to make, and leverages ALL their content so that the value is there even if the current product isn't interesting or great. Obviously they want it to be that, but it gives them a safety net.

Also merch is more than just a sale, it's a walking advertisement for their product, so there's value there as well.

Wrestling shirts in public cmon Sunny that's like a walking disgrace, not an ad.

It will be fascinating to see what happens when their TV is up. If people want fundamental changes to the product, I think that would be a point where shit could really get tossed around.

 

[Marvel]

I agree with a lot of what Bret said, but not about things being dead.

 

[slightconfuse]

Time to watch Starrcade 96' to prime my body for the latest TLF review.

both the cruiserweight matches are great

 

[kiguel182]

I wonder why Primo and Epico keep getting chances and stay in the roster while other talent (Sandow for example) isn't on TV when they have been way more over than these two ever have.

 

[Hex]

What's stupid about that picture is that he's breaking the fucking law and can get his ass fined for it.

He might be sitting still?

 

[Bluekaveli]

Why is everyone assuming the car is moving

That's what I was wondering as well. He could be at a stop light. Wal mart parking lot, drive through, whatever.

 

[Sephzilla]

Off topic but man, if Playstation Vue had El Rey I'd probably subscribe to it

 

[Bluekaveli]

I wonder why Primo and Epico keep getting chances and stay in the roster while other talent (Sandow for example) isn't on TV when they have been way more over than these two ever have.

You gotta have jobber tag teams. Also Carlos probably threatened Vince with a knife to keep some of his people employed.

 

[Hex]

Arent dvr included in Nielsen tv rating?

If I am not mistaken, DVR is under a different category on ratings..
I have seen some sites give stats for both (I think it was a Doctor Who ratings thing at the time)

 

[Aiii]

NXT is bringing "real wrestling" to the surface. RAW and WM is "a bunch of morons that sit around creating wrestling. Just writers from Hollywood who don't know anything about the business. Just Vince Russo's in a different uniform"

Ain't that the goddamn truth. Preach, Hitman, preach!

 

[Mahonay]

I wonder why Primo and Epico keep getting chances and stay in the roster while other talent (Sandow for example) isn't on TV when they have been way more over than these two ever have.

Because they generally seem to just keep their heads down and do whatever dumbass gimmick they are handed with out a great deal of fuss.

Why would you ever want someone like Sandow who takes your shit gimmick and turns it into something highly entertaining?

But really, you always need jobbers. Primo and Epico are jobbers for life.

 

[klonere]

The writers are writing for Vince, not to be good guys.

Edit: WHO FUCKING BUMPED THE RATINGS THREAD AAAHHHRHR

 

[Bluekaveli]

So SummerSlam Wyatt v Brock or at WM? I don't think Vince is going to let that go so easily.

 

[slightconfuse]

primo and epico have job because they are related to Carlos Colon.

 

[klonere]

So SummerSlam Wyatt v Brock or at WM? I don't think Vince is going to let that go so easily.

Gotta give Brock some big name wins before the final showdown with Roman.

 

[slightconfuse]

 

[Bluekaveli]

 

[Angry Grimace]

Gotta give Brock some big name wins before the final showdown with Roman.

Beating Brock clean will turn someone into the top guy immediately and I have my doubts they'd waste it on putting Roman over even more than they already have. If he was HHH he'd probably lobby to do it, but Roman just collects checks.