April Wrasslin |OT| WrassleMania Sucked

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sajj316 said:
I actually agree with Net_Wrecker on this. You need to be put in a position to be over if you are "new" to the WWE crowd. Winning the US title and coming out to entrance music that puts you to sleep right away is not it. The nerd that gets the ladies does not work.

The most entertaining thing Daniel Bryan has done thus far was on NXT where him and Cole went at it and his feud with Miz.
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And you can't blame creative 100% with that at all - if I've learned anything from working in the business, the talent (Bryan) should be coming TO the writers and saying "Here's a few ideas I have to spice things up" - obviously bad creative can be at fault, and your ideas can get nixed by Hayes or Vince any other higher-up, but you have to think outside the box. Being a damn good wrestler will not get you over these days. There's no mystique to Bryan, no bite, no indication that he's anything more than a run of the mill wrestler that isn't destined for greatness. He needs to reinvent himself.

I do think a huge pitfall was the choking incident - he could have used that entire Nexus angle to be just incredible, but currently he's in a hole and he needs to help the writers as much as they need to help him get out of that hole.
 
Professor Beef said:
Maybe they should have an angle where Bryan tries to get back into Nexus.
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Even these thoughts that are very quick to come about are universes better than the nerd angle. Again though - perhaps he did present that, perhaps it was vetoed for a myriad of reasons, but Bryan needs to keep thinking of different ways to reinvent his character.

Obviously this one in particular wouldn't work, since he 'left' of his own accord, but that's not the point I'm making.
 
Net_Wrecker said:
Is it really a joke though? All of the comments are trolling?

If everyone was trolling, I'm done, but I don't think everyone was.
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Yeah, its just joke trolling.

I think more or less everyone is aware of how boss he was in ROH. If they aren't, they need to be.
 
Off the top of my head, WWE has given shots to 3 ROH alumni - Danielson, Sydal, and Punk. Danielson was given the second most important title in the company, 2 attractive and 1 above average looking women to do vignettes with, and a surprise main event debut on the second biggest PPV in the company. Sydal was given a spectacular finisher that used to be banned, teams with top guys like Rey and Cena, and wins over Jericho who was the top heel at the time. Punk was put in feuds with Mike Knox, Elijah Burke, and John Morrison and eventually became the vanity champion of a show nobody watched. Of the 3, Punk is the only one who got over despite having the least to work with.

Some guys are just unpushable because nobody wants to see them.
 
Sunflower said:
And you can't blame creative 100% with that at all - if I've learned anything from working in the business, the talent (Bryan) should be coming TO the writers and saying "Here's a few ideas I have to spice things up" - obviously bad creative can be at fault, and your ideas can get nixed by Hayes or Vince any other higher-up, but you have to think outside the box. Being a damn good wrestler will not get you over these days. There's no mystique to Bryan, no bite, no indication that he's anything more than a run of the mill wrestler that isn't destined for greatness. He needs to reinvent himself.

I do think a huge pitfall was the choking incident - he could have used that entire Nexus angle to be just incredible, but currently he's in a hole and he needs to help the writers as much as they need to help him get out of that hole.
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Why are you assuming Bryan hasn't pitched booking suggestions to Creative for his programs/character/feuds and had them shot down? Hell, 95% of the stuff the actual Creative team brings to the table that's new, fresh and exciting gets shot down. Vince doesn't trust anyone that isn't Triple H, Stephanie, Kevin Dunn or Michael Hayes... especially when it comes to anything that isn't being done already.

You need to bear in mind that anyone that hasn't been with the company for 5 years is ACTIVELY DISCOURAGED politically from bringing anything to the product that could be seen as them putting themselves over at the expense of more established talent. This is a poisonous environment that is now fleeing from all things wrestling whatsoever and you're blaming Bryan for not pitching ideas. He pitches the wrong idea to the wrong person and he lands himself on terminal jobber duty in Santino's band of merry men or off TV altogether.

Oh wait... maybe the problem is that Bryan actually DID try to help the writers. Hmmm... look where it got him.

Lastly, if you think the US Title is an important title in the company and that being overshadowed by diva catfights was doing Bryan a favor, well... good luck with that.
 
Sunflower said:
And you can't blame creative 100% with that at all - if I've learned anything from working in the business, the talent (Bryan) should be coming TO the writers and saying "Here's a few ideas I have to spice things up" - obviously bad creative can be at fault, and your ideas can get nixed by Hayes or Vince any other higher-up, but you have to think outside the box. Being a damn good wrestler will not get you over these days. There's no mystique to Bryan, no bite, no indication that he's anything more than a run of the mill wrestler that isn't destined for greatness. He needs to reinvent himself.

I do think a huge pitfall was the choking incident - he could have used that entire Nexus angle to be just incredible, but currently he's in a hole and he needs to help the writers as much as they need to help him get out of that hole.
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I don't disagree. Being the best wrestler does not get you over or make you a world champion. We really don't know what goes behind the scenes. We don't know management's perception of him and trusting dirt sheets isn't the way. All I know is that he's incredibly talented in the ring. He was fired and then rehired. If he lacked all the other intangibles, why rehire him. He was given the US championship. With those facts, I can assume that there is some level of potential that WWE brass sees in Bryan.

It's not 100% creative but it's a good percentage. How much stroke does Bryan have early in his WWE career to make these recommendations? Who has his back politically? You have to believe that all this factors into who get's pushed and who doesn't. The choking incident certainly set him back.
 
UberTag said:
Why are you assuming Bryan hasn't pitched booking suggestions to Creative for his programs/character/feuds and had them shot down? Hell, 95% of the stuff the actual Creative team brings to the table that's new, fresh and exciting gets shot down. Vince doesn't trust anyone that isn't Triple H, Stephanie, Kevin Dunn or Michael Hayes... especially when it comes to anything that isn't being done already.

You need to bear in mind that anyone that hasn't been with the company for 5 years is ACTIVELY DISCOURAGED politically from bringing anything to the product that could be seen as them putting themselves over at the expense of more established talent. This is a poisonous environment that is now fleeing from all things wrestling whatsoever and you're blaming Bryan for not pitching ideas. He pitches the wrong idea to the wrong person and he lands himself on terminal jobber duty in Santino's band of merry men or off TV altogether.

Oh wait... maybe the problem is that Bryan actually DID try to help the writers. Hmmm... look where it got him.

Lastly, if you think the US Title is an important title in the company and that being overshadowed by diva catfights was doing Bryan a favor, well... good luck with that.
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Well, I did post below that about how Bryan's ideas could be vetoed. Since we're not on the inside, we don't know - and we won't, so we shouldn't assume either direction. But that doesn't mean we can pin it all on Creative, either. Bryan truly is a square peg trying to fit in a round hole, and I hope to see better things from him in the future before he gets endeavor'd.
 
Mr. Sam said:
On whether exposure and good writing can make or break a wrestler, I give you... Steve Austin.
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Amen .. also when Austin was speaking to the Tough Enough contestants he mentioned help or coming up with Stone Cold Steve Austin cause the Ringmaster wasn't cutting it. Then again, Austin had the credibility and Vince listened.
 
sajj316 said:
Amen .. also when Austin was speaking to the Tough Enough contestants he mentioned help or coming up with Stone Cold Steve Austin cause the Ringmaster wasn't cutting it. Then again, Austin had the credibility and Vince listened.
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We should all hope Bryan sticks around long enough to have a proper chance to hit that sweet spot. It's still far too early to condemn him for good, and I hope he managed to get out of his current hole before he is released. Currently he totally sucks as a character though!
 
Anyway, talking about Daniel Bryan is only slightly more entertaining than watching Daniel Bryan.

Here's some Edge!

edit: Stopping Edge's music so HHH can have his full entrance (even though the entire locker room has already made it to the stage) looks even worse than I imagined.
 
Sunflower said:
We should all hope Bryan sticks around long enough to have a proper chance to hit that sweet spot. It's still far too early to condemn him for good, and I hope he managed to get out of his current hole before he is released. Currently he totally sucks as a character though!
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Sometimes .. all you need to be is the last one standing while being somewhat relevant until your time comes.

Maybe Daniels should head up an anti-sports entertainment stable.
 
sajj316 said:
Sometimes .. all you need to be is the last one standing while being somewhat relevant until your time comes.

Maybe Daniels should head up an anti-sports entertainment stable.
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You mean go back to RoH?

It kills me how the WWE has turned, because right now they have a handful of REALLY kickass actual wrestlers on their show that I LOVE watching work. It's just not the main event.
 
I'm wondering who you guys are even talking to. Who doesn't think writing is important in a wrestling program? This ongoing joke about Bryan, which actually points out just how important the writing is, has gone over too many heads.
 
Speaking of Edge ..from JR's blog:

"Edge’s retirement this past Monday on Raw was a shocking surprise. I had no idea that it was going to happen even up until the time Edge came to the ring and gave us the emotional news. There are no wrestlers in the business that I respect more as a performer and a man than I do Adam Copeland aka Edge. When I signed him in the 90′s, he was a lanky, over achieving kid who simply wanted to live his dream of making it onto the WWE Roster. He and Christian were like brothers and both fed off the other in the ring as they each worked diligently every day to improve their game. I honestly can’t remember a single day when Adam Copeland ever did anything to disappoint me or cause our department or company any problems.

Edge has a brilliant mind, a kind soul, patience, and would be a great teacher, producer, broadcaster, scout, or whatever task he may want to undertake in WWE. I look for Edge to take some much needed time away from the business and enjoy the North Carolina mountains and his dogs that he loves so much. He deserves no less than to return to WWE in whatever role that creates a win/win for Edge and the company but only whenever Edge is ready to re-engage.

In my role as the head of WWE Talent, I signed many athletes/performers who ended up excelling in WWE but none, and I mean no one, was more of a pure joy to work with and to watch grow from a mid card, tag team wrestler into one of WWE’s most prominent and enduring superstars who will no doubt be inducted in the WWE Hall of Fame some day.

I shutter to think what would have happened to Edge in another generation of the biz as it relates to accurately diagnosing his injury. Most old timers would have ‘worked through it,’ or attempted to do so, until their body completely shut down. That’s sad and unnecessary. Modern medicine and the WWE attention to such matters regarding their talent’s health were a blessing for Edge who will now be able to lead a somewhat normal life. I am especially pleased that one of my guys has attained financial independence and that he was able to live his boyhood dream.

Notwithstanding the touching farewell address by the popular native of Ontario, no one can debate that this story did not have a happy ending. Good things more often than not happen to good people and Adam Copeland aka Edge was one of the truly ‘good guys’ I ever had the privilege of knowing in the business. Now, Adam, if he so chooses, can start phase two of his WWE life and potentially gift the younger talents with his wonderful knowledge and passion for the genre.

Do it on your schedule Adam. Enjoy those North Carolina mountains and reflect upon a job well done. It’s people like you that make me extremely proud to be in the business."
 
Sunflower said:
You mean go back to RoH?

It kills me how the WWE has turned, because right now they have a handful of REALLY kickass actual wrestlers on their show that I LOVE watching work. It's just not the main event.
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I might actually start to watch ROH!
 
We've seen too many careers end with a stretcher. I'm glad Edge stopped while he was (mostly) ahead physically - and I'm glad he's hanging up his boots, considering the circumstances. JR's right on.
 
Wrekt said:
Kaval
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Kaval knew he didn't have years to sit around and wait for his moment (which arguably, if he DID have his moment, he'd be sittin pretty) and asked for his release. Can't fault him for that. Plus, he was a lil' guy. And we all know how Vince feels about lil guys...
 
dream said:
So basically ROH talent can't cut it in the WWE.
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Well...different product. Basically. People lauded as incredible in RoH are done so for abilities that don't make you a superstar in the WWE. It's a shame it's like that, but that's how it is.
 
Galvanise_ said:
If they gave Christian more mic time and made him a little bit more aggressive, he'd be sweet.

I like that R-Truth is getting a bit of a push. The top of the card was getting very boring.
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You know, I don't mind that R-Truth is getting a push at the top, but I guess I'm just a cynic who doesn't believe that he'll have a fair shot of winning the title. It really feels like he's just there to job to either Miz or Cena. If the WWE really was intent on pushing R-Truth with a title run, then I'm all for it with this new change in direction, but until then, I'll continue to poo poo this.
 
Sunflower said:
Kaval knew he didn't have years to sit around and wait for his moment (which arguably, if he DID have his moment, he'd be sittin pretty) and asked for his release. Can't fault him for that. Plus, he was a lil' guy. And we all know how Vince feels about lil guys...
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I still think that is bonk.

How many people come into the wWE and are major stars on day 1? The guy hardly waited 2 months before he decided to call it quits.
 
Sunflower said:
Well...different product. Basically. People lauded as incredible in RoH are done so for abilities that don't make you a superstar in the WWE. It's a shame it's like that, but that's how it is.
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As much as I make fun of how horrible Daniel Bryan is, I really do think it sucks that ROH and Dragon Gate are the glass ceiling for guys who excel at workrate above anything else. Especially since Japan and Mexico are dying out.

Bootaaay said:
Yeah, just like WWE can no longer cut it as a wrestling promotion.
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That's the problem, I guess. Pure pro wrestling is far more niche than it's ever been.
 
Bootaaay said:
Paul London.

And Spanky, James Gibson & Jimmy Yang, although those guys either had a developmental deal with WWE previously (like Danielson) or were fired and then re-hired after their ROH run.
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And in the case of Yang, rehired just to spar with Michaels!
 
dream said:
As much as I make fun of how horrible Daniel Bryan is, I really do think it sucks that ROH and Dragon Gate are the glass ceiling for guys who excel at workrate above anything else. Especially since Japan and Mexico are dying out.



That's the problem, I guess. Pure pro wrestling is far more niche than it's ever been.
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The best thing to help get that ceiling higher is to support what you love, and get other people in on the fun as well. High five, yeah?
 
dream said:
That's the problem, I guess. Pure pro wrestling is far more niche than it's ever been.
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Eric Bischoff on Removing the Wrestling from WWE

Regarding WWE dropping "wrestling" from the official name of the company to simply be known as "WWE," Bischoff said he understands it from a corporate branding perspective since it's difficult to market pro wrestling to advertisers and the outside world because wrestling is its own niche.

Bischoff added, though, that because wrestling is its own niche, it makes the art form unique, which should make wrestling marketable. Bischoff noted wrestling fans are passionate and loyal as a result.

"To knowingly and intentionally alienate or turn your back to such a large, passionate group of fans, I understand it intellectually; I just don't necessarily agree with it. Look, Vince is a billionaire and Eric isn't, so who's to say? (laughs) But, for me, I'm proud to be in the professional wrestling business. I know there's a lot of people in TNA who feel the same way. So, I guess time will tell if Vince McMahon has made a wise decision or whether this is another 'XFL moment.'"
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I would say Punk got more of a chance coming in than Danielson. He got "coming soon" videos, a nice winning streak and a debut infront of a crowd that was already behind him from his Indy days so he seemed like a big deal. This is compared to Danielson who went a long period of time without winning and was constantly buried to the audience on commentary.
 
DKehoe said:
I would say Punk got more of a chance coming in than Danielson. He got "coming soon" videos, a nice winning streak and a debut infront of a crowd that was already behind him from his Indy days so he seemed like a big deal. This is compared to Danielson who went a long period of time without winning and was constantly buried to the audience on commentary.
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Debuting Punk at the infamous Hammerstein Ballroom edition of ECW on Sci-Fi did more for him than anything. The reaction they gave him made Punk look like a really big deal.
 
5secondpose.jpg


Aww.
 
dream said:
Anyway, talking about Daniel Bryan is only slightly more entertaining than watching Daniel Bryan.

Here's some Edge!

edit: Stopping Edge's music so HHH can have his full entrance (even though the entire locker room has already made it to the stage) looks even worse than I imagined.
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The oddest thing about that video... to me anyhow.. is I can only remember Triple H/Edge working together once
 
Penguin said:
The oddest thing about that video... to me anyhow.. is I can only remember Triple H/Edge working together once
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There was that throwaway feud on Smackdown when Trips busted Edge for cheating on Vicky with Alicia Fox, and there was Rated RKO getting destroyed by that damn DX.
 
As much hate as HHH gets, I think he'll just reverse everything that McMahon is doing when he gets into power.

Even if HHH just promotes his buddies, we are pretty good since he is friends with people like Sheamus (who is awesome). HHH also likes people like Bourne, which bodes well for those kind of wresters too.
 
Has this been posted yet? Checked back to yesterday before the news broke and couldn't see anything. It's already known that Vince hates the term "wrestling", amongst others, but to see it in writing and official is still weird to me:

Official List of Banned WWE Terms Sent Out to International Voice-Over Workers

- WWE has an information sheet titled "The Language of WWE" that they send out to people that do international voice-overs for their TV shows in other countries. The sheet includes a list of "Incorrect Terminology" and a list of "Correct Terminology."

"The Language of WWE" reads like this:

"World Wrestling Entertainment (WWE) is a publicly traded entertainment company (NYSE: WWE) that creates and delivers a weekly action soap opera to its passionate fans.

WWE has been a recognized leader in entertainment for more than 25 years and has developed into one of the most popular and sophisticated forms of global entertainment today.

As a global entertainment brand, the language that we use when communicating on WWE is critical.

Please ensure that you are familiar and employing the below, effective immediately. "

Here's a look at some of the terms:

* "Wrestling" or "catch" is banned. Some European countries still use the term "catch" to describe pro wrestling and "catchers" to describe wrestlers. "The Language of WWE" states that the following phrases are incorrect: "Wrestling is broadcast in 145 countries," or "Catch is broadcast in 145 countries." The correct terminology is: "WWE is broadcast in 145 countries."

* "Sports" is incorrect. "Entertainment or Action Soap Opera" is allowed. For example, "WWE is exciting entertainment" or "WWE is an exciting action soap opera" is allowed. In the last example, "action soap opera" is printed in bold, presumably to make sure there's no confusion.

* "Catchers" or "wrestlers" are not allowed. Incorrect examples are "Catchers are unique characters" or "Wrestlers are unique characters." The term "WWE Superstars" is allowed.

* "Athletes" or "Sportsmen" are not allowed either. WWE gives the following example to use: "WWE Superstars are entertainers with tremendous athletic prowess."

* The term "fight" is not allowed. Matches must be referred to as "match" or "bout."

* "Fighting" is also not allowed but the term "action" is.

"The Language of WWE" printout concludes with the following "Key Soundbytes":

* WWE is pure entertainment

* WWE is an action soap opera

* WWE Superstars are entertainers with tremendous athletic prowess


Source: F4Wonline.com's Figure 4 Weekly
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The general consensus is that when Triple H takes over the company (can't believe I'm typing that), he'll reverse a lot of the weird ticks and phobias Vince has. People can call titles "belts" again, people can actually use the word "wrestler" and "wrestling", the commentators can actually mention the names of the referees, etc.
 
From 2009

- At a recent WWE promotional event in Japan, Triple H put over Jack Swagger and Evan Bourne as the company's best new talent. His words must have meant something since both Swagger and Bourne were drafted to RAW this week

F4WOnline.com
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Another rumor that I'm looking for a source for. This was posted on Bourne's fansite.

The original plan for Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan at WrestleMania 27 was to have The Bella Twins in Sheamus’ corner and Gail Kim in Bryan’s corner but it doesn’t look like that will be happening. There was even talk of adding Ted Dibiase to the match at one point before plans were scrapped, which would have had Gail, The Bellas, and Maryse all at ringside. There has also been recent pushes by Stephanie McMahon to add Evan Bourne to the match, but Vince is said to be dead set against it, as he feels Evan isn’t big enough to even be considered for mid or upper card status. Bourne has been a hot button topic between the two McMahons for about a year now. Vince sees him as nothing more than a jobber to get others over, while Stephanie and her husband see a potential gold mine, as they feel he could potentially be the next Jeff Hardy, but without all the baggage.
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Thats cool, I wasn't saying you were wrong just really wasn't sure. He just tends to love the body builder type.
 
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