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[Azih]

I agree the solution is peaceful co-existence BigJonsson. Could you please explain that to your settlers in your midst?

Because I frankly HATE that idiot in charge of Fatah. I hate suicide bombers and 'Israel pushed into sea' fucking bastards. But I.. can't... say... anything to them because they can shut down my argument with NO problems.

<Me> Look killing innocent civillians is wrong, you're not supposed to fucking blow up school buses. There's nothing to justify that.
<Them> There's more settlements now then there were a few weeks ago. The ones that were there before are expanding, and they're all protected by the IDF we're being pushed in tighter and can't move around because of roadblocks and humiliation. We don't have any support from the outside world. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO FIGHT BACK.
<Me>....

I'm fucking stumped. See?

Because like I have said before. IF all terrorism magically vanished tomorrow would the settlers up and say "welp, our job is done, Israel proper is safe, let's go back across the Green line, yay yay". NO, they'd just expand faster and take more land away from the Palestenians because they're THE CHOSEN PEOPLE OF GOD TAKING BACK THE GOD'S BLODDY DAMN PROMISED LAND AREN'T THEY? And now happily the stupid Arab cockroach goys that were all giving them problems have stopped fighting. PERFECT

But I promise you this. IF all the settlements magically vanished tomorrow then terrorism would be SEVERELY AND DRASTICALLY REDUCED and NO NON-MUSLIM Country would support Fatah and Hamas like idiots who try to push beyond the Green line. The Palestenian support for terrorists would plummet because you know they have enough territorial integrity to LIVE.

SETTERS=RELIGOUS EXTREMIST EVIL.

 

[Odnetnin]

too me a while to register what that meant. FUCK... why do they have to make comments like that. Its not going to do anything but foster more hatred/bloodshed. Bloody move to LA or California and live the good life. Do whatever, try to co-exist.

Shocking.

 

[Particle Physicist]

do you?

yes i do.. but i wasnt the one spouting off..

 

[Jesiatha]

It was Israel long before it was Palestine.

And before it was Israel, it was inhabited by the Palestinians (known in Hebrew as the "Philistines").

 

[Particle Physicist]

..

 

[Mejilan]

And before it was Israel, it was inhabited by the Palestinians (known in Hebrew as the "Philistines").

Do some research. The Philistines are not the ancestors of today's Palestinians.

Edit - and for the record, the Hebrew word for 'Palestinian' is not 'Philistine'.

 

[Firest0rm]

Do some research. The Philistines are not the ancestors of today's Palestinians.

Edit - and for the record, the Hebrew word for 'Palestinian' is not 'Philistine'.

In Arabic it is pronounced Philistine.

I thought I would link you people to this article about Israeli Refusnik Soldiers, it brings a closer look into whats going on.

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/03/13_refuseniks.shtml

 

[Jesiatha]

Do some research. The Philistines are not the ancestors of today's Palestinians.

Edit - and for the record, the Hebrew word for 'Palestinian' is not 'Philistine'.

I have done some research. Just consulted "Palestine and the Arab-Israeli Conflict" and couldn't find anything to the contrary in the first few pages of history of the region up until WW1.

As far as the entymology, I was mixed up - "Philistine" is the Arabic word for a Palestinian. "Filasteeni".

edit - my Hebrew is very poor, but since modern Hebrew avoids the Dagesh (or maybe not?), and the Hebrew wikipedia article for "Palestinian" was titled spelled "Palestiniym" - how is that differentiated from "Philistiniym"? A better question is probably "what is the modern Hebrew word for "Palestinian"?

 

[McLesterolBeast]

http://www.palestinecenter.org/palestine/history.html

It's impossible to establish any true natural right to the land.

 

[Mejilan]

http://www.bible-history.com/quotes/john_bimson_1.html
http://www.ortzion.org/Amalek_3.html
http://www.bmja.i12.com/winter_2002_-issue_216.htm

Those are just three links of many. I'm not cutting and pasting the texts, so feel free to do some reading of your own.

Edit - In Hebrew, we generally refer to a Palestinian as a 'Palestini' or a 'Falestini'. The Hebrew letters that represent the P and F sounds are the same letter, called either a Pey or a Fey depending on the Nekudot (dots), of course.

 

[Jesiatha]

Edit - In Hebrew, we generally refer to a Palestinian as a 'Palestini' or a 'Falestini'. The Hebrew letters that represent the P and F sounds are the same letter, called either a Pey or a Fey depending on the Nekudot (dots), of course.

Since I'm mostly interested in the linguistic part - what is the modern Hebrew word for Philistine? Is it not Filistini (spelled the same as Falestini)?

Also - I assume the Nekudot is just a dot in the middle of the letter? In my study of ancient Hebrew, that's always been called a "dagesh" - is it ever called that in reference to modern Hebrew?

 

[Mejilan]

HaNekudot (translates to 'the dots') refers to all of the "tweaks" available to the Hebrew characters, from the Dagesh to the vowels.

You know, I'm not sure if there IS a true and "official" Hebrew word for 'Palestinian', since Israel doesn't recognize the "State of Palestine" (since it doesn't yet exist.) But I've heard both 'Palestin' and 'Falestin' in the nightly news when I was living there.

Tell ya what, in about 6 days I'm flying to Israel for a 2 week trip to visit my family, I'll pay attention to the news and see if anything's changed in the couple of years since I've left. I'll also ask my family if there is an official Hebrew word for 'Palestinian' aside what I've mentioned above.

 

[Nerevar]

The Palestinians and the Israeli Jews are actually the same people. There's no archaelogical evidence to support a campaign by the Israelites (coming from an exiled Egypt) and "catpuring" the land away from the native Caananites (or however it's spelled). In fact, during most of the pre-Babylonian captivity, most Israelites were most likely polytheists who worshipped a male Divine entity (Yahweh, El, whatever) and his female consort (a fertility goddess).

 

[AlphaSnake]

And before it was Israel, it was inhabited by the Palestinians (known in Hebrew as the "Philistines").

No it wasn't. I just finished a course of Western Civilization and that was one of the last topics we covered. Phillistines are not Palestinians, the professor stressed that to a good degree. It's a common misconception. I still have my Western Civ. book too I'll double check.

 

[Mejilan]

No it wasn't. I just finished a course of Western Civilization and that was one of the last topics we covered. Phillistines are not Palestinians, the professor stressed that to a good degree. It's a common misconception. I still have my Western Civ. book too I'll double check.

Don't bother, check out the couple of links I posted in response to that very same post a couple of messages above.

 

[COCKLES]

Well let's be honest here, in years to come it's going to come down to a war between The World vs Islam. I doubt the Arab world wants to stop at jus Israel.

 

[AssMan]

I don't think Israel needs help to defeat all the surrounding arab nations, to be honest. :/

:::looks back at 1967:::

 

[Firest0rm]

Well let's be honest here, in years to come it's going to come down to a war between The World vs Islam. I doubt the Arab world wants to stop at jus Israel.

Stop at Israel? wtf do you mean? Can you be more clear in what your saying.

 

[Mejilan]

Stop at Israel? wtf do you mean? Can you be more clear in what your saying.

I think he meant that if the Arab world was going to mobilize and attempt to eradicate Israel, and actually succeeded, they'd target more countries after that. *shrugs* Perhaps THE ENTIRE REST OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION!?!??!

 

[Firest0rm]

I think he meant that if the Arab world was going to mobilize and attempt to eradicate Israel, and actually succeeded, they'd target more countries after that. *shrugs* Perhaps THE ENTIRE REST OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION!?!??!

Thats the stupidist thing I have ever heard. The same can be said about every nation. Infact the same thing is claimed against Israel. If Israel consumes all of Palestine then they will not stop until they have hit the Euphrates river and the Nile river in the south to the Lebanon mountains in the north.

 

[Azih]

I think he meant that if the Arab world was going to mobilize and attempt to eradicate Israel, and actually succeeded, they'd target more countries after that. *shrugs* Perhaps THE ENTIRE REST OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION!?!??!

Ahah I can't decide if both of you are really that paranoid or if this is just an easy way for you guys to villify muslims.


As well your theory has about as much grounding as "OMG ZIONISTS CONTROL THE WORLD".

Plus go ahead and ignore my last post, I'm used to it.

 

[Mejilan]

Hey hey hey! I don't AGREE with Cockles. I was just explaining how I understood his post in an attempt to clarify Firestorm's confusion.

Whoa. It IS the stupidest thing I ever heard on the subject.

Well, perhaps not, but it's definitely on the list.

Edit - My participation in this thread has been limited to questioning about the the integrity of he original sourced news article (since I'm not familiar with it and hadn't seen the news reported on other news sites, American, International, or Israeli), and to educate some people on their views of Palestinians and the ancient Philistines.

 

[Firest0rm]

Hey hey hey! I don't AGREE with Cockles. I was just explaining how I understood his post in an attempt to clarify Firestorm's confusion.

Whoa. It IS the stupidest thing I ever heard on the subject.

Well, perhaps not, but it's definitely on the list.

Edit - My participation in this thread has been limited to questioning about the the integrity of he original sourced news article (since I'm not familiar with it and hadn't seen the news reported on other news sites, American, International, or Israeli), and to educate some people on their views of Palestinians and the ancient Philistines.

WHATS THAT YOU SAY!? YOU AGREE?

just joking . I didn't mean to sound like I was directing it towards you, I was just trying to say the whole thought of it is stupid. However its what lies in every nations interest. And in today's world the country that is partially accomplishing this is the US, since they do control so many things in this world.

 

[Azih]

Noted. I'm retracting my last comment to just Cockles then.

 

[Mejilan]

No problem, Firest0rm. I was talking to Azih, since he mentioned "both" of us. It's all kosher now, however.

 

[Firest0rm]

No problem, Firest0rm. I was talking to Azih, since he mentioned "both" of us. It's all kosher now, however.

Then let us feast on it.

 

[FightyF]

One point that hasn't been brought up yet is the fact that these comments by certain Palestinians are done once in a blue moon.

Compare that to the rhetoric from the Knesset all the time, calling Palestinians "animals", "pests" and the like.

A 2 state solution is ideal, but it's obvious, Israel doesn't want that. Christians in the Bible Belt don't want that either because they believe Jesus will return once Jews inhabit the entire area.

This whole problem is with religious ideals and fantasies. Zionists and Evangelists both want a gentile free Israel. And then you have the reaction from the Palestinians which equate to "an eye for an eye".

The simplest solution would be to get rid of the settlements, and to let both countries exist, and then for international forces to deal with radicals on both sides (there will be Settlers who won't leave...force them out, and there will be Radicals on the Palestinian side who will the eradication of Israel).

When you take out the Illegal Settlements, you take out many things. First of all, deaths of innocent Palestinians (at the hands of Settlers or the IDF), the burning of Palestinian crops and the destruction of Palestinian homes. Do that, and you take away 90% of the Palestinian greviences. This will in turn cause far less reaction in the form of attacks against innocent Israelis, and less fuel for terrorists to "justify" their actions.

 

[Che]

out of curiosity.. but do you actually know why sharon is considered a war criminal? im only asking because people always seem to bring this up.. but, for some reason, i have the inkling that they really dont know why.

This is sooooo easy. And since I don't have time writing all of his "accomplishments" I'll mention his masterpiece that would put any serial killer to shame: "Sabra and Satila" aka "Hitler: the return".

 

[Particle Physicist]

This is sooooo easy. And since I don't have time writing all of his "accomplishments" I'll mention his masterpiece that would put any serial killer to shame: "Sabra and Satila" aka "Hitler: the return".

just checking. now.. the follow up question

what exactly is Sharon's connection to the massacre ? how was he directly involved? and why are you calling him a war criminal.. again, just asking, cause as far as i know.. he has never been charged with anything.




also. sabra and satila was pretty damn bad.. but it was nothing in the scale of what happened in europe during hitlers reign.

 

[Firest0rm]

just checking. now.. the follow up question

what exactly is Sharon's connection to the massacre ? how was he directly involved? and why are you calling him a war criminal.. again, just asking, cause as far as i know.. he has never been charged with anything.




also. sabra and satila was pretty damn bad.. but it was nothing in the scale of what happened in europe during hitlers reign.

I did some searching earlier on and found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_Massacre. That should answer your question(s).

 

[GaimeGuy]

:::looks back at 1967:::

*Joins in looking at 1967*

... yeah? So, what do you see?

I mean, yeah, Israel had a LITTLE bit of help there, but it wasn't like Israel really NEEDED it, or that they were begging for it.

The "extra help" was done not at israel's request, or as an ally, but as a country looking out for its own interests. (common enemy)

 

[FightyF]

and why are you calling him a war criminal.. again, just asking, cause as far as i know.. he has never been charged with anything.

Wasn't he supposed to be on trial?