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[Septimus Prime]

Here's a question: how do these particular players know that the KGB cannot double-kill? Did they ask about it in the KGB chat?

 

[Haly]

Thing is about judging my posting behavior compared to last game is when I entered the game 3 days had been completed and I had a bunch of information to go through. No one can say I would've posted that way at the beginning of the game since they have no game to compare it to. At the moment I have nothing really but looking at posting behaviors. Was gonna do a vote count but someone had recently done it.

I guess it was unfair of me to expect the same level of activity without the same level of material.

Moving on... Vote: Mike_Hawk689

We've heard back from a lot of the other inactives, but I'm still waiting for something from you and Enker.

Reads, again:

Arkos - Novice player who understandably overreacts at pressure, nothing to see here. Newer players to revenge vote/press because they don't know what it means to present town, what it means to present scum, but they know they're town, so anyone who accuses them must be out to get them, a.k.a. scum.

YesNOnoNOYes - It's hard to separate the roleplaying from the seriousness but there's nothing definitely scum here.

Quantumbro - I agree with Burbeting in that QB is very much a blank slate, does pro-town things but doesn't necessarily read pro-town.

Palmer_v1 - Strong town vibes, mostly because of how he identified the protection afforded by volunteering and wasn't shy about standing by his snap decision. I can't think of a more honestly town statement than: "I want to survive Night 1 by any means necessary"

Hobohodo - Mafia scum that's not to be trusted! But no, jokes aside, recently he's taken to agreeing with me (not that I mind) and I haven't seen a lot of original thoughts from him.

El Topo - There's an uncanny absence there, not in terms of activity but in terms of emotional feedback. I'm not comfortable with it, but it's similar with Hobohodo, QuantumBro and Razmos.

Razmos - I don't get squidy's fixation with Razmos honestly, I agree with all the other ex-AC players that he's been pretty consistent with how he played last game. It's like leaning on Seath because he posts like he usually does.

 

[Ourobolus]

Here's a question: how do these particular players know that the KGB cannot double-kill? Did they ask about it in the KGB chat?

...everyone receives a role PM with explicit instructions, but I won't discuss the particulars.

I can't divulge anything that has been said in the KGB chat, for obvious reasons.

 

[Haly]

As I write that, Enker has posted so I'm just waiting on Mike now apparently.

Here's a question: how do these particular players know that the KGB cannot double-kill? Did they ask about it in the KGB chat?

It's possible for Mafia to double kill, but the thing is that double killing can lead to very lopsided games. 1 kill per night vs 1 lynch per day is standard for the simple reason that it leads to close (and therefore exciting and interesting) games.

As an example, both games last time had 23 players with 20-25% Mafia vs Town + Neutrals, and both came down to the wire. What happens if you give Mafia two kills per night? Well they'll advance the end game much faster and to balance that out you would have to halve the number of Mafia to 2-3.

But with only 2-3 Mafia, Town only needs to get lucky a few times to win the game immediately. So you would wind up with extreme games where Town gets luck and wins in a few days, or Mafia quickly dispatches Town before they can really mount a defense (the longer the games go, the more information on players they have, the better they can pinpoint Mafia). Mafia is better when there's less randomness involved, thus, 1 day lynch, 1 night kill.

This is more a design thing than secret knowledge.

 

[Septimus Prime]

...everyone receives a role PM with explicit instructions, but I won't discuss the particulars.

I can't divulge anything that has been said in the KGB chat, for obvious reasons.

Right.

And who would be the ones to receive role PMs that explicitly state that KGB can only make one kill per night? Because I certainly didn't get anything like that in mine.

 

[Arkos]

I like all the "playing dumb" comments I'm getting. Doing wonders for my self-esteem guys (I'm not "playing" dumb, apparently I just am dumb)

And you're right Haly, I don't really get the whole "presenting Town" thing. If it were as simple as "presenting Town" then wouldn't it be really easy for the mafia to blend in? I recognize that I'm probably bad at it, but I also feel like it's talked about as though it's something relatively easy to do, but then the whole goal of the game for town is to figure out who isn't acting very Towny (which implies that it's not so easy to just "present Town")

 

[squidyj]

Okay okay, I know this is a little out of left field and doesn't apply to a lot of people in this game but I'm getting pushback from Mazre and Haly based on Razmos' past behavior so this is what I want the AC players to do. look at what Razmos has provided so far, then go back and review his posts on the first few pages of the ac thread on day 1. Then review Ourobolus' posts because Razmos here feels more like the latter there to me.

Non AC players can do it too

I don't like going so in depth into another game here, but people are specifically bringing it up in defense of Razmos so I think it might be warranted.

 

[Palmer_v1]

Here's a question: how do these particular players know that the KGB cannot double-kill? Did they ask about it in the KGB chat?

Seriously? It's just the standard mafia format. I don't understand why you would post such passive aggressive accusations when I(and others) have tried to help you numerous times now. This is a game first, we're here to have fun. Even if I was Mafia, I don't think I could be dick enough to mislead newbies on the very foundations of the game.

 

[squidyj]

Right.

And who would be the ones to receive role PMs that explicitly state that KGB can only make one kill per night? Because I certainly didn't get anything like that in mine.

You're making it hard to believe that you're just a new player, seemingly every misinterpretation that could be made of the way the rules work is one that you have made. It seems entirely improbable that this is something that just happens.

 

[Kevyt]

I guess it was unfair of me to expect the same level of activity without the same level of material.

Moving on... Vote: Mike_Hawk689

We've heard back from a lot of the other inactives, but I'm still waiting for something from you and Enker.

Reads, again:

Arkos - Novice player who understandably overreacts at pressure, nothing to see here. Newer players to revenge vote/press because they don't know what it means to present town, what it means to present scum, but they know they're town, so anyone who accuses them must be out to get them, a.k.a. scum.

YesNOnoNOYes - It's hard to separate the roleplaying from the seriousness but there's nothing definitely scum here.

Quantumbro - I agree with Burbeting in that QB is very much a blank slate, does pro-town things but doesn't necessarily read pro-town.

Palmer_v1 - Strong town vibes, mostly because of how he identified the protection afforded by volunteering and wasn't shy about standing by his snap decision. I can't think of a more honestly town statement than: "I want to survive Night 1 by any means necessary"

Hobohodo - Mafia scum that's not to be trusted! But no, jokes aside, recently he's taken to agreeing with me (not that I mind) and I haven't seen a lot of original thoughts from him.

El Topo - There's an uncanny absence there, not in terms of activity but in terms of emotional feedback. I'm not comfortable with it, but it's similar with Hobohodo, QuantumBro and Razmos.

Razmos - I don't get squidy's fixation with Razmos honestly, I agree with all the other ex-AC players that he's been pretty consistent with how he played last game. It's like leaning on Seath because he posts like he usually does.

What about me based Haly? \o/

 

[Palmer_v1]

You're making it hard to believe that you're just a new player, seemingly every misinterpretation that could be made of the way the rules work is one that you have made. It seems entirely improbable that this is something that just happens.

Also, yes.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Seriously? It's just the standard mafia format. I don't understand why you would post such passive aggressive accusations when I(and others) have tried to help you numerous times now. This is a game first, we're here to have fun. Even if I was Mafia, I don't think I could be dick enough to mislead newbies on the very foundations of the game.

Whoa, calm down. Standard Mafia doesn't include missions, so it's a murky mechanic. There's no intention to mislead, which is why I had the conversation about it right in the open here, so now everyone knows what the deal is.

And before we get into how I misread the rules, honestly, I'm not the only one who misread or forgot about parts of it. For example, there is this rule:

17. For your vote to count, it must be presented in the following format: VOTE: Ourobolus, via use of the highlight tag. It must also be in an entirely separate line from any other text.

You don't see me accusing people of trying to mislead when they cast non-votes by using highlight tags within lines. They're just mistakes. Everyone makes them.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Morning lovelies

Gosh, I love waking up to posts to catch up to <3 But since the day's ending today I think I will set my alarm and try to be there when the rush to the finish line is going to happen ^_____^

Hopefully I'll wake up instead of smashing my alarm clock in rage :x

I've only skimmed the few last pages so far but I just want to say the following:

1. Septimus Prime - I was using my nicey language with my last call out. I will now say that you are an EVASIVE PLAYER. You refuses to elaborate when asked for and you make vacuous, oh-shucks-silly-me-im-not-quite-as-smart-as-yall posts. Though I am a little resigned with you for now, mark my words: I have my eyes on you!

2. Seath - Previously a well known hobo in the area, I believe. What's up with the avatar doppelgangeriness! Smells funny to me. Your posts also have been mostly jokes and nonsense.... Are they super secret spy codes. I misplaced my manual :< .....All I'm saying is that you've popped up on my radar, buddy~

3. Office Slackers: MikeHawk, Visualante2 and TheGoddamn - if you ask me, they need a severe pay downgrade in the next salary review! But, seriously, the less you guys post / contribute, the harder it is for the rest of us to make reads off you, so please speak up more !






squidypoo, I'll return momentarily with my response to the names you picked ! will back-read for nao~

 

[Mazre]

Okay okay, I know this is a little out of left field and doesn't apply to a lot of people in this game but I'm getting pushback from Mazre and Haly based on Razmos' past behavior so this is what I want the AC players to do. look at what Razmos has provided so far, then go back and review his posts on the first few pages of the ac thread on day 1. Then review Ourobolus' posts because Razmos here feels more like the latter there to me.

Non AC players can do it too

I don't like going so in depth into another game here, but people are specifically bringing it up in defense of Razmos so I think it might be warranted.

Yeah I suppose Razmos was more active at the start of the AC game but compared against his overall style (at least as I recall in hindsight) there's not been a major departure. Certainly enough for a strong day 1 hunch depending on your perspective or what you choose to focus on, but probably not enough to build a strong consensus.

 

[Ourobolus]

Whoa, calm down. Standard Mafia doesn't include missions, so it's a murky mechanic. There's no intention to mislead, which is why I had the conversation about it right in the open here, so now everyone knows what the deal is.

And before we get into how I misread the rules, honestly, I'm not the only one who misread or forgot about parts of it. For example, there is this rule:


You don't see me accusing people of trying to mislead when they cast non-votes by using highlight tags within lines. They're just mistakes. Everyone makes them.

I can understand mistakes. Those are fine.

However, just assume this is standard mafia, but with missions. If there was extra info I thought you needed to know, I would have given it in the rules.

 

[Haly]

And you're right Haly, I don't really get the whole "presenting Town" thing. If it were as simple as "presenting Town" then wouldn't it be really easy for the mafia to blend in?

Mafia (the game) is about:

One group of guys pretending they're part of the guys while killing them
Another group of guys trying to find the first group before they're all killed

So no, it's not very easy for scum to blend in. Well, it's easy on Day 1 because no one knows anyone else, there's nothing to work with, and everyone's guesses are as wild as everyone else's.

But as the game continues, you will be able to learn more and more about a person and answer the important question of: "Is this guy really who he says he is?" Because the scum have a very clear goal: Kill town until there's 50:50 town:scum (this is usually the end state but there are alternative end states). Every scum that's killed means a lot more town that has to die, so they need to watch out for their best interests. They need to make sure that, while pretending to be town, they don't screw themselves over. And while performing their juggling act of identities and priorities, they will (depending on their skill) start to slip up.

This is what we, as town, are looking for. The slip ups. And one of the ways we do this is applying pressure in the form of lynching. So, don't take it personally if squidyj or someone else is on your ass. It's the whole point of day time discussion.

You're probably familiar with the term "poker face". Mafia works similary. Except the scum is trying to keep up a "town face".

That said.

Even the town needs to learn how to put up a town face. You see, one of the reasons scum wins is that town will unavoidably kill themselves. Town has very little power, all they have is dialogue and their votes. They have to lynch someone in order to get scum. Scum obviously don't want to get killed, but town killing town means hitting the end game ratio that much faster, which is why, if you're innocent, you need to be able to look it. By doing so, you narrow the pool of suspects to suspicious folks. If a town player acts suspiciously, then that player will get the lynch even if they're innocent, because any choice is better than none. This is where you are at right now.

TL;DR

Town play - Offensive, find the liars
Scum play - Defensive, keep up the lie
Universal play - Look clean so you don't get killed by town while they're looking for the liars

And, finally, with all things being even, it's easier for town to look town because they don't have a double agenda. That's the main reason why pressure works. It's easier to be honest than to maintain a lie.

 

[squidyj]

I said it'd only be a few minutes but I got some dinner and then got distracted so here is my response to my own question.

- Arkos
Either a genuine noob who's just having a hard time getting a handle on mafia, or someone who is manipulating our impression of him to some end, potentially mafia but more likely a town-opposed third party. The problem is that keeping him around in the long term quickly becomes a lose-lose scenario for town in that if he's town he's not much help and if he's non-town well... then he's non-town and potentially much better than he's letting on and therein dangerous.

YesNOnoNOYes
- she spends a fair bit of time being quirky and I sometimes find myself glossing over her posts because of how they are structured but when I force myself to read the words she seems okay, I'd put her on the town side of things
Quantumbro
- pretty townie dude so far, I've agreed with a lot of what he's had to say which suggest that he's working through the same thought processes as I am and operating from largely the same information. Maybe something will happen but I feel pretty good about calling him town at this point.
Palmer_v1
- Also pretty townie, don't agree with him as much but his logic is generally pretty solid and he's good for pointing out flaws in other people's arguments so he seems to be trying to figure out the game as well.
Hobohodo
- Who?
El Topo
- Ask nin how I feel about people who reply to my inquiries with jokes
Razmos
- I see a pattern of hiding and not wanting to be noticed for much of anything. I don't recall much in the way of recent interactions that have pushed a town agenda and one thing that sticks in my mind is how Razmos claimed that I thought he was an easy lynch when he has proven to be very difficult to generate action against. It feels like a manufactured defense that's just some boilerplate you can throw out regardless of the situation.

 

[Enker]

The Other Reads:

Hobo - Half of his posts are fluff, and a decent amount of the others are commenting on the “Do we vote on volunteers” question. Not enough to go on for me.

Quantum - He strikes my curiosity due to noting the missions have “no special benefits” on the 3rd when I don’t think there was any way to know that then. Not enough to put a vote on him, but on my watchlist. (There probably isn’t anything special you get outside of being in a different “potential kill group” as it would unbalance the game but it is a curious statement).

Razmus - Voted late after a call for votes by the end of Day 2, so either he is as busy as he claims or wants to appear that way to avoid being a target. I can see why Squidy gave him a vote, but I’m not sold either way because I didn’t play AC so I have no experience to go on.

 

[Septimus Prime]

I wouldn't be surprised if there are some "Renegade" (from Bang!) roles around, too, where their goal is something entirely different.

 

[squidyj]

Hello!

Vote: GreatLord Tiger

I was aiming for a no-lynch first day, but...now it's Tit for Tat.

So starts out aiming for a no-lynch, not a good start, then tit for tats greatlord.

This math falls apart if more than one KGB volunteers, though (and if they can collude, why wouldn't they?), and a large percentage of their team would end up being effectively immune from lynching.

Why would the KGB orchestrate to put exactly one member into the mission? Why not load it up and try to keep multiple teammates from being lynched? That's what I would do if I were KGB.

I might be. Wouldn't they still be immune from Town lynching for one cycle, though, even though they can lynch each other?

Thinking town cannot lynch mission members

So we lynch at night, too? Sorry, I've never played a Mafia game with this tweak before.

Misunderstanding the explanation designed to clear up a misunderstanding

Okay, I think I get it.

So, then, it would behoove KGB to have someone in the mission so they can ace two people per night phase (one on the mission and one at Town), but I guess it doesn't matter how many people they have in there, as long as they do have someone there.

Thinks mafia can kill 2 people at night if they are both inside and outside the mission

Now what do I have wrong? Whatever Mafia on the mission can kill anyone else on the mission, and whatever Mafia aren't can kill anyone else not on the mission, so that's two kills, unless no Mafia members got into the mission or they choose not to make a kill.

Resistant to explanation

Here's a question: how do these particular players know that the KGB cannot double-kill? Did they ask about it in the KGB chat?

Suggests that people who understood the way the rules actually work are mafia.




....This is the same as making a typo when writing a highlight tag. (well except for that no-lynch bit, I just think that's scummy on its own)

 

[squidyj]

I'd have to dig through the thread but I think it's even worse than it looks because I'm pretty sure some of this stuff happened after these exact issues had been explained to other players.

 

[Palmer_v1]

I'd have to dig through the thread but I think it's even worse than it looks because I'm pretty sure some of this stuff happened after these exact issues had been explained to other players.

I gotta be honest, it's approaching policy lynch territory for me.

 

[Visualante2]

Volunteer discussion:

Spoiler

I'm agreed with Mike RE: town ownership of volunteers. I feel the overall sentiment has been anyone making suggestions has been suspicious for trying to control it or obfuscate any information town could gain from it. We have to be careful not to let this drag out and cloud other days. It would be easy for KGB to just keep adding fuel to this debate.

I think any power roles should be staying with the larger group for now. KGB would be cutting their game short if they were to hit someone on the mission. Following on from this I believe KGB will be looking for anyone who doesn't want to be part of the missions (as Mazre highlights) will make power roles an easy target. This is why I feel we should obfuscate who goes on missions or ignore missions entirely from day two, until the situation changes. To be clear the only reason I didn't volunteer today was because I am new but that won't stop me tomorrow.

As for my own vote, I've been flipping between Mazre, GreatLord Tiger and Palmer. For me GreatLord has just been least useful. I don't subscribe to the next level bluff. KGB will want that info asap.

I think Septimus Prime has been playing dumb RE: immunity from lynches. Just a general thought about the way I've been playing. I have mostly been focusing on those talking most, and under criticism most. It's hard for me to focus on those inactive so I hope experienced players will be able to do that for town. (even me) I think my posts have been quality over quantity despite what some say. I choose to keep some thoughts to myself because I don't want the KGB to absorb my next level strats and use them against us. I won't defend myself at length about this when pushed, which appears to be the expectation of the game. With that I will apologise for the lateness of my vote.

VOTE: GreatLord Tiger
there's not a lot in it for me between Mazre and GreatLord.

 

[Haly]

I don't like going so in depth into another game here, but people are specifically bringing it up in defense of Razmos so I think it might be warranted.

I feel like you're ignoring the context.

1) Razmos had a day power (he actually activated the power that day on Timeaisis)
2) Ourobolus was, now that I read over it, risking himself a little to take the heat off franconp
3) Multiple roles were being claimed on all sides, Mazre softclaimed, Razmos softclaimed, franconp softclaimed, Ultron claimed that Doublelynch thing

If you split his posts between "pre role shenanigans" and "post role shenanigans" the contrast is very clear.

(Now I'm kind of bitter that everyone cockblocked my roomie evict

, damn you Karkador, you and your psychological defenses!)

((I spent like 30 minutes going over old posts, what a stroll down memory lane))

 

[squidyj]

I feel like you're ignoring the context.

1) Razmos had a day power (he actually activated the power that day on Timeaisis)
2) Ourobolus was, now that I read over it, risking himself a little to take the heat off franconp
3) Multiple roles were being claimed on all sides, Mazre softclaimed, Razmos softclaimed, franconp softclaimed, Ultron claimed that Doublelynch thing

If you split his posts between "pre role shenanigans" and "post role shenanigans" the contrast is very clear.

(Now I'm kind of bitter that everyone cockblocked my roomie evict

, damn you Karkador, you and your psychological defenses!)

((I spent like 30 minutes going over old posts, what a stroll down memory lane))

having a power didn't give him more insight on day one, I don't think it really explains anything.

 

[Haly]

I think it's reasonable to assume that players with powers are more active because, well, they're excited about those powers.

In a game where 60-70% of people can only vote, a power is a big motivator to invest in the game. I'm not really talking about how much insight it gives, but the psychological effect of coming into a game as someone special.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

request for reads

Arkos - okies, so he's active and that's nice, but oozes a lot of cluelessness and he's super cute when he's relieved that the spotlight is not on him. You ask, examples? Well! YNNNY has them!

• #794 - This is ... probably the first time since Squidy's sauron eye weakened its grip on Arkos. And he latches on to fellow players' pick on on Seath very eagerly.
• #813 - Now he's cutely raising his voice towards other people's concern on EzekelRAGE's changed playstyle.... even when he admitted that he didn't read the AC thread
• #886 - Casually agreeing with Palmer that Septimus is suspicious.

YesNOnoNOYes - Most deserving of bonuses and pay rise. Very suave. Great smile. Will take payments in scotch bottles.

Quantumbro - Seems like a nice guy. Hasn't really produced any strong readings with regards to his alignment to me. Would like to see more from him.

Palmer_v1 - HUTT SCUM OF THE HIGHEST DEGREE. Do not trust!!!

XD He's an experienced player who has been valuable so far. I'm thinking he's more Agency than KGB, but he makes some really curt and defensive posts sometimes.

Hobohodo - Moderate activity. Questioned Seath a few times so he gave him chances to explain his high-post-count-but-low-quality-of-posts before finally voting for him. Reads like town to me.

El Topo - sort of tunnel into roytheone, then i sort of lost sight of his voice in the recent pages. probably laying low sort of fella?

Razmos - squidyj's love interest???

 

[cooljeanius]

I've blown most of my discretionary funds on lobster the past few days in CT, RI, MA, and ME, so this might be a good change for now!

Spoiler

I could totally eat more lobster

What, you were spending time in New England, and didn't bother to stop in NH?! Actually, I can't really say I blame you; it sucks here...

We'll see later when I make look at all the posts of everyone later.

Okay, fair enough, take your time. Just remember the deadline...

Yeah, I am an idiot who posted the same thing again after I already knew it was wrong from earlier in the thread. Just was trying to post quickly last night because I got home very late and didn’t reread it. I was expecting to come in today to 4-5 people voting me due to that. Thanks for not doing so.

For activity concerns - This week I am writing my final paper for class so will be much more active come this weekend and beyond (still only at nights M-Th).

I’m trying to reread the thread now so if you have any other questions, particularly as this is my last appearance before the vote I’m here for another hour or two.

All right, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now... brain farts happen; it's okay. Of course, now I still need someone to vote for...

 

[TheGoddamn]

Septimus's ostensible cluelessness is just a little bit aggravating, although that may be enhanced by the palpable frustration expressed by the experienced and active players, namely squidy, Haly, and Palmer. It's likely that Septimus's questions are in the spirit of opening up a discussion out in the open, but these posts are asking about things that I think are so matter of fact that it could be a smokescreen to up his visibility.

We fundamentally don't know how many mafia are on the mission and how many are not, day 1 reads might not be great but they're better than guessing, second-guessing and third-guessing the day 0 mafia gameplan.

I think this is a possible option however I keep thinking if I was playing as mafia, I'd like to have an eye on every potentially open communication channel available in the hopes of uncovering roles/creating friction between different parties. I would rank that as more valuable than the suspicion raised by volunteering early.

Definitely a good consideration though, hell maybe the mafia slipped up and isn't in the initial four volunteers. Just goes to show how incredibly difficult making a solid choice on Day 1 is.

True; I overthought my counterpoint.

I'm not willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt for being new.

To clarify, I meant strictly in terms of not lynching day one. It's definitely possible to be suspicious of Arkos, but to me, not to the point of wanting them dead right now.

squidy's obsession with Razmos is also very interesting, but is outshined by how Razmos reacts to this prodding:

You think i'm the best lynch because I'm an easy target.

I already defended myself, and none of your accusations hold any ground at all.

Not active enough? I've been really busy and my timezone sucks for this game.
Not enough substance? It's day one and I'm sorry if I'm not coming out with grand theories or attacking random people for no reason.

You even said that i'm not posting that much which is bullshit, I am nowhere near the bottom of the rankings for posts.

Just admit it, you think I'm a bad player and an easy target and you want an easy lynch on the first day. It would make more sense than all the stupid accusations you are throwing my way, and that's probably why nobody is taking your bait.

Which seems steeped in past "bad blood".

Related to the Razmos line of thinking, for the most part I have a love-hate relationship with the frequent allusions to current players' behavior in past mafia games. It only obfuscates the particulars of this game-- new players or those who didn't participate in those games will either have to take the sharer's word for it, or look up the past behavior themselves.

It could be argued that this is part of the game, but perhaps when referring to past games it could be substantiated with links. I don't know if

5. Do not refer or discuss to player activity in other forum threads or life in general beyond the game.

this rule disallows talking about past mafia games, but "keep it sporting", I guess?

ARCHER MAFIA PLAYER GUIDEBOOK

Burbeting, thank you for the excellent reads. You articulated much of what I was feeling about the other players. I admit that my "quoted" defense was a typical new player behavior of becoming incredibly defensive after a vote, as Haly said about Arkos (I don't think that Palmer was actually serious about voting for me, but wished to provoke a response).

Something I've been wondering about: Who had the gay "disguise" Sterling avatar first, Seath or YesNOnoNOYes? This might be misleading when people are skimming pages (especially on mobile), and whoever adopted it second could be using that to their advantage. Is that too meta a thing to note?

(This totally is not a revenge thing for recommending my pay be docked, YNNNY!)

 

[Mike_Hawk689]

Although some may believe that I want to lynch either Mazre or Palmer just for their experience, it is absolutely not the case. Like I have explained mafia must've wanted to keep an eye on the information passed during the missions, which is why they wanted to have an inside man. They also want someone who knows what they are doing, this is where experience comes in play. I do understand that experience does help us townies closer to finding mafias, but with my reason that atleast one mafia is in the volunteering list, that is why I'm leaning towards Mazre or Palmer but also keeping an eye on Akos and GreatLord. Though I won't vote for them now since, there's nothing that stands out.

What I've noticed is that cooljeanius wanting to vote for Enker but not commiting all the way maybe because he'd be called out as bandwaggon? (post 827)
The only reasoning I see in his voting is: Ah yeah you're right... Vote: xxxx

VOTE: cooljeanius

(Yes my activity during this day phase has been lacking. I do understand the commitment to this game which is why I'm writting this so late. It's pretty hard to write something when most has already been said. We also all lack of information at this current phase, where most of the votes are "gut" feeling. (And for my lack of posts.. I do tend to write a medium sized post to sum up everything that I do have in mind, so it's pretty much why I have a low post count. To be fair I'm not the kinda of guy who writes posts just for jokes or cosplaying with the theme. = No fluff)

Sidenote: Ouro is coming to my city! Such an honor. Don't lynch me cause im canadian..

 

[Mike_Hawk689]

Also forgot to thank Burbeting in my previous post. Helped a lot with my absence.
somejpgofathumbsup.jpg

 

[squidyj]

Although some may believe that I want to lynch either Mazre or Palmer just for their experience, it is absolutely not the case. Like I have explained mafia must've wanted to keep an eye on the information passed during the missions, which is why they wanted to have an inside man. They also want someone who knows what they are doing, this is where experience comes in play. I do understand that experience does help us townies closer to finding mafias, but with my reason that atleast one mafia is in the volunteering list, that is why I'm leaning towards Mazre or Palmer but also keeping an eye on Akos and GreatLord. Though I won't vote for them now since, there's nothing that stands out.

What I've noticed is that cooljeanius wanting to vote for Enker but not commiting all the way maybe because he'd be called out as bandwaggon? (post 827)
The only reasoning I see in his voting is: Ah yeah you're right... Vote: xxxx

VOTE: cooljeanius

(Yes my activity during this day phase has been lacking. I do understand the commitment to this game which is why I'm writting this so late. It's pretty hard to write something when most has already been said. We also all lack of information at this current phase, where most of the votes are "gut" feeling. (And for my lack of posts.. I do tend to write a medium sized post to sum up everything that I do have in mind, so it's pretty much why I have a low post count. To be fair I'm not the kinda of guy who writes posts just for jokes or cosplaying with the theme. = No fluff)

Sidenote: Ouro is coming to my city! Such an honor. Don't lynch me cause im canadian..

What if arkos is the only mafia player who was available on time? There are a lot of what if's involved.

 

[Razmos]

Okay okay, I know this is a little out of left field and doesn't apply to a lot of people in this game but I'm getting pushback from Mazre and Haly based on Razmos' past behavior so this is what I want the AC players to do. look at what Razmos has provided so far, then go back and review his posts on the first few pages of the ac thread on day 1. Then review Ourobolus' posts because Razmos here feels more like the latter there to me.

Non AC players can do it too

I don't like going so in depth into another game here, but people are specifically bringing it up in defense of Razmos so I think it might be warranted.

I don't want to keep bringing up real life, but it's relevant, I wasn't working when the Animal Crossing game started and had a lot more time on my hands.
My post count started to drop off in that game as well towards the end because I started working during it.

You are reading far too much into my post count which is weird when there are other people who have posted less, and others who have posted mostly fluff like Seath.

Your targetting of me still doesn't make any sense.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Something I've been wondering about: Who had the gay "disguise" Sterling avatar first, Seath or YesNOnoNOYes? This might be misleading when people are skimming pages (especially on mobile), and whoever adopted it second could be using that to their advantage. Is that too meta a thing to note?

(This totally is not a revenge thing for recommending my pay be docked, YNNNY!)

Me! I had it first! Seath is such a booboohead for cramping my style awah ;___;

I'm going to change mine so it's not confusing for you guys :>


(your pay is safe........ for now) (later when i need funds to cover for my 'operations accounts', it may be a different story) (ho ho ho)

 

[TheGoddamn]

Me! I had it first! Seath is such a booboohead for cramping my style awah ;___;

I'm going to change mine so it's not confusing for you guys :>


(your pay is safe........ for now) (later when i need funds to cover for my 'operations accounts', it may be a different story) (ho ho ho)

Heh. Classic misdirection, Seath! (Yay for game-relevant Archer gags!)

 

[cabot]

Would everyone talking about eziekel posting differently please elaborate some, not all of us kept up with the AC game.

It's been covered without quoting you, but in the AC game, Ezekel offered lots of summary posts, vote counts and reads from the getgo (as mentioned he was subbed in, not from day 1)

In fairness, it could be another player you're referring to since I've seen about 5 variations of spelling on his username throughout the thread. Apparently there's an i in there that keeps jumping around. EZEKELRAGE

I also want to state for the record, in case I die that Cabbeh worries me insofar as I know I'm town and he's been complimentary towards me for the most part and has rushed to my defense. I think defending other players can be a town behaviour if you are offering up good logic and I think it's rare that you would see mafia defending mafia heavily. I also think that Cabbeh might be a mafia thinking he can pocket me.

Have I been that complimentary? I like the way you play, it promotes lots of discussion and that's ultimately the best way to win as town. I don't think I've really shown massive love outside of this respect.

I'm still not with you going after Razmos, because you're basing a lot on a previous game, and I've not seen much strangeness from Razmos himself except with his overreaction to your vote. I'm thinking maybe he was nervous there'd be a potential dogpile because you're the top poster and it could be expected that a few of the quiet ones would follow your lead.

I keep jumping from YNONOY because when I actually read her posts she does show insight and detail, but as someone said earlier the way it's written makes it feel looser than it appears?

Maybe I'm just tired, I read her posts in the morning. Argh.

Echo the concern of Septimus' density. This isn't some bizarre play, right?

 

[roytheone]

Alright, my thoughts (anything I added myself is bolded):

So..... here's a list of everyone who hasn't been voted on not even once.

Arkos : Early volunteer and seems to have it out for squid, but his reasons why are weak at best. He even acknowledged the fact that a day 1 choice will have flimsy reasons, so why risk it to accidentally lycnh a potential useful town player? He is suspect to me

YesNOnoNOYes: Decently active, can't get a really good read on her, but for now I tend to think she is town.

Quantumbro: Another one I can't get a good read on, didn't do anything that really stands out, so I am kinda blank on him right now.

Palmer_v1: Palmer will either be one of our best town players, or a incredibly dangerous mafia player. His tone seems to be quite aggressive at times, but that doesn't strike me as mafia behavior. I had him as a suspect in the beginning, but I am getting away from that. Also, again for the sake of damage control and avoiding killing potential useful town members, I am against voting for Palmer for now.

Hobohodo: He doesn't make a lot of big, summary posts, but the small posts he DOES make often do have good insights in them. Like how he made me realize seath was not contributing much and was mostly posting jokes. I think Hobohodo is town.

and to this list I want to add

El Topo : He hasn't really posted anything about who he suspects and why, outside of voting for me because of his "gut" and giving 0 other reasons, even after the day was farther along and everyone posted more. I find this suspect.

Razmos: Seems to be mostly on the defensive against Squids vote, had some decent input about the voting system but just like El topo he doesn't really talk about who he suspects and why, his vote for burbeting seem to be just a random choice without any justification. Also suspect.

.

My own main three suspects currently are:

Seath: A lot of jokes and fluff, little in the way of actual discussion. To me this seems like he is trying to artificially up his post count so that he can be inactive without being called out on it.

Septimus prime: I can understand not fully grasping the mission system and having questions, but this is getting......a bit much. I think he is hiding something in his ignorance of the rules.

Mike_hawk: Not very active and I disagree with a lot of the things he said. Post #930 is the first one of him I actually find contributing.

 

[Burbeting]

but seriously I feel like we haven't really interacted much at all and I want to ask you about your voting on GreatLord, You're up there with septimus, zubz, and hobohodo. I've read your thoughts on everybody and I'm wondering more specifically what do you think about their interactions with GreatLord and how do you feel about this group of players voting the same person?

Back with this post now after sleeping till almost noon.

I’ll go through what I think about all three voting GreatLord one person at a time first.

Zubz – Only reason he voted Tiger was to get some pressure to one of the four early volunteers. It was okay as an early vote, but Zubz hasn’t really returned to talk about it later.

Hobohodo – He had some of the same reasonings behind his vote like I had, which is fine. One thing that strikes me odd is that he said he wanted to vote at that point, because he wasn’t sure if he could post much later, yet he has posted quite a lot after it, so that reasoning for voting at that moment was kind of strange in my eyes. When I yesterday made my list, hobohobo was one of the last I went through, but now in hindsight I should’ve read his posts much more carefully, because this is kind of odd behaviour. His vote is now in Seath though.

Septimus – He… he really didn’t give much of a reason to vote for GreatLord, now did he? He didn’t mention him in his earlier posts, and then just voted him, after Tiger himself had voted Septimus himself. That’s not cool Septimus. As I said in my earlier post, Septimus was the last one I looked at, so my brains were really off at that point, and I just wanted to get it over with. Looking back after good-night sleep though, this vote does strike odd, and his ”mafia can double-kill” talks are raising my eyebrowns a bit.

So yeah, to answer your question, I think this group voting for GreatLord seems kind of odd to me, because none of them had too great reasoning behind their votes. I can kind of understand Zubz and Hobohobo’s votes, since Zubz wanted to go with YNNNY’s plan, and I presume Hobo wanted to vote at that point since others had said that everyone should vote someone at that point. I have no excuses for Septimus’ vote though at all. At this point I can’t say if these three votes are connected though. If this was a later day than Day 1, I might think it could be Mafia lazily trying to bandwagon, but this is day 1, and reasonings behind votes can be bit sleazy.

That said, I still do stand behind my own reasoning with voting GreatLord Tiger, which I have stated earlier. He hasn’t really answered to my concerns, and in fact hasn’t posted anything at all for over an day at all even though he has some votes.

But this read-through was pretty informative in general, so thanks for asking about it. It also highlighted to me, that I should have read more carefully the posts of the last people too, but I took an easy route back then because time was already at around 1am, and I was super-sleepy at that point.

 

[cabot]

Although some may believe that I want to lynch either Mazre or Palmer just for their experience, it is absolutely not the case. Like I have explained mafia must've wanted to keep an eye on the information passed during the missions, which is why they wanted to have an inside man. They also want someone who knows what they are doing, this is where experience comes in play. I do understand that experience does help us townies closer to finding mafias, but with my reason that atleast one mafia is in the volunteering list, that is why I'm leaning towards Mazre or Palmer but also keeping an eye on Akos and GreatLord. Though I won't vote for them now since, there's nothing that stands out.

I could be wrong here, but the way I read this is you seem to imply that there is a method to the mafia selection process, whereas it's been confirmed it's completely random. Mafia might not have any experienced players, or they might all be vets (dear god). There's no narrative to be made from these assumptions because there is no narrative.

I think your point is a good one, and one to keep in mind but I wouldn't really take serious stock in it because of the random element of allocation.

 

[roytheone]

Also, on a slightly different topic: judging from the dangrapapa thread the final hours before the deadline could get chaotic, and with ourobolus probably not available to give us regular vote count updates, this could be problematic. If we lose count of the votes, we could end up with a no-lynch thanks to an accidental tie, and I think the vast majority of this group is against a no-lynch. Everybody giving their own vote updates is also not ideal and will clutter up the thread. So maybe one player will keep the vote count updated when things start to pop off?

 

[Burbeting]

Alright, now to answer some stuff that others have said about that earlier post. Thanks for everyone who said it was informative, although I do have to remind that it’s just my subjective thoughts about players, and like I mentioned in last post, I should have gone through some players with better detail.

Broken tags shouldn't happen if you're regularly using the "Preview Post" button before submitting.

Except if you are using mobile-gaf, at least my mobile-version of gaf doesn’t let me preview posts (or I’m completely blind and I can’t see that). My own earlier posts in this game have got broken quote-tags exactly because of this. Of course I don’t know for sure if squidyj got those broken tags for same reason.

Thanks for taking the time to put your reads together. You are correct I am mostly indifferent to votes being cast against me. It's day 1, and the only tallies that matter are the one where someone has a majority or where the clock has struck 0. I've addressed concerns as often and as best I can, beyond that my fate is outside of my control.

Yeah, you did address concerns, but the tone in those posts seemed somewhat indifferent for some reason at least in my eyes, which was one of the reasons I did mention that indifferentness in my thoughts about you.

So..... here's a list of everyone who hasn't been voted on not even once.

Arkos
YesNOnoNOYes
Quantumbro
Palmer_v1
Hobohodo

and to this list I want to add

El Topo
Razmos

and I want to hear what everyone thinks of these players in particular.

I think I've made my thoughts on Arkos, Palmer Razmos and Hobohodo somewhat known. but I'll reiterate those as well. I'll do it in a separate post because It might take a few minutes to write up.

I at least tried to go through my thoughts about these people in that earlier long-ish post, although like my previous post stated, I should have went to better detail with at least Hobodobo. I’ll try to look at Quantumbro and El Topo later again, since right now I didn’t have lot to say about either of them earlier.

 

[Hobohodo]

Hobohodo – He had some of the same reasonings behind his vote like I had, which is fine. One thing that strikes me odd is that he said he wanted to vote at that point, because he wasn’t sure if he could post much later, yet he has posted quite a lot after it, so that reasoning for voting at that moment was kind of strange in my eyes. When I yesterday made my list, hobohobo was one of the last I went through, but now in hindsight I should’ve read his posts much more carefully, because this is kind of odd behaviour. His vote is now in Seath though.

As I said in the post where I voted GLT, I was heading out for the night and as I didn't know what my mobile signal would be like I was unsure how active I would be. As it turned out not at all as I made that post at 6.30PM and didn't post again till 3:40PM the following day when I was back at my computer. I wanted to get a vote up as it was being mentioned how it would be good if everyone had voted within the first 48 hours of play.

 

[Burbeting]

As I said in the post where I voted GLT, I was heading out for the night and as I didn't know what my mobile signal would be like I was unsure how active I would be. As it turned out not at all as I made that post at 6.30PM and didn't post again till 3:40PM the following day when I was back at my computer. I wanted to get a vote up as it was being mentioned how it would be good if everyone had voted within the first 48 hours of play.

Okay, that sounds fair enough to me.

 

[squidyj]

Okay so I stayed up too late and took the time to reread the thread from the beginning, abandoning previous notions I had.
Vote: Enker

I don't think we can lynch either mazre or greatlord today.

Enker bothers me in part because of his mazre vote, it feels like bandwagoning and what's the value of getting mazre to unvolunteer?

 

[Hobohodo]

Request for reads

Arkos made some mistakes right at the start of the game in regards to how missions worked but as the confusion didn't persist to long I could see that as genuine.I'm not a fan of this post 424 as he is not trusting of squidy because squidy is asking question. Seeing as that's the whole point of the game this is like not trusting a swimmer because he got in the water. As has been mentioned the big post against squidy didn't have much to it ( the top town/top scum method is apparently complicated?) As squidy is quite a relentless player maybe he is just crumbling user the pressure. Not sure if scum or misguided town. I change what way I swing slightly every time I reread his posts.

We've talked about YesNo's posting style but she is giving a catch up post every day with her thoughts on what's going on so I lean town on her. Also took the clever decision to changer her avatar after Seath jumped on it which gives me the impression she knows when to move on with something which is valuable for mafia.

Quantumbro I feel like I haven't got much to go on. Not disagreeing with anything he says mind and is going for an inactive (Visualante) all by himself right now. If he was scum and just wanted to get a town gone today I feel he would have plomped down on someone who had a nit of traction. No one player has that many votes so it wouldn't be seen as much of a bandwagon in my eyes.

Palmer I am trusting off but its all from my gut at the moment. I guess it is because regardless he is to valuable to off right now as even if he is KGB he is provoking convosation and making sure that us town are all talking. His reasoning for wanting to go on the mission is also sound.

El Topo seems content to let the day ride out and has said he doesn't care who we lynch as long as its not him. Posts are filled with less nonsense than some players but ultimately there hasn't been to much discussion it feels like. Could just be a player who finds Day 1 a bit dull as you have very little info to go on but I'm going to be keeping my eye on him a bit more now.

Razmos I'm not feeling the vote on him. What I would say has all ready been said by the AC guys. Yeah he was acting differently at the start of AC to this, but his behaviour at the end of the game lines up with how he is now.


Unrelated to the guys Squidy asked about but Septimus is setting up red flags for a variety of reasons which you guys have all ready gone over. Enker hasn't been on my radar at all though so after lunch I think I will look at him and the other inactive a little bit.

 

[Ourobolus]

What, you were spending time in New England, and didn't bother to stop in NH?! Actually, I can't really say I blame you; it sucks here...

Okay, fair enough, take your time. Just remember the deadline...

All right, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now... brain farts happen; it's okay. Of course, now I still need someone to vote for...

Actually I'm in NH right now. At a campsite near White Mountain.

 

[cabot]

So..... here's a list of everyone who hasn't been voted on not even once.

Arkos - Suspicious for reasons I covered when exchanging with him and others have repeated. Going after squidy, who is encouraging discussion and giving poor reasons.

YesNOnoNOYes - I've yoyo-ed on her in a couple of posts but after re-reading, I'm saying town.

Quantumbro - I have a leaning towards town for Quantum, though as others have said he's been very ....abstract. Not a good read right now. Not a day 1 lynch either.

Palmer_v1 - Palmer is a damn good player, and for that reason I've not considered him at all this day. The aggressive stance is what I remember from the other games I watched, his reason for volunteering is frank and understandable. Feel it's an El Topo situation where he'll contribute more when there's more solid information available.

Hobohodo - I feel Hobo is town. He's offering decent insight in small doses, which is effective and good.

and to this list I want to add

El Topo - Joking aside, there's not much else except a man who seems comfortable and waiting for more information to come either from missions or the end of day 1/night 1. I'll be eager to see more input in day 2 but nothing too pressing for the current round. Plus some of his jokes were decent.

Razmos - As stated previously, don't see anything particularly scummy here yet, certainly not for day 1 lynching. Think too much has been made of his previous performance

Feedback in bold.

I'm still weary on cooljeanius, Enker and Septimus. I don't feel comfortable around Mazre either.

I'd vote for these guys today.

 

[Ourobolus]

I just want to thank all of you for sticking around so far. No one has really gone inactive, and Lord Cthulhu and that lewd bear are stealing all the replacements.

Boo-ya-ka-sha! Boo-ya-ka-sha!

 

[Hobohodo]

Okay so these are my reads on Enker and the less active players.

So this is the first time I've taken a look at Enker. Again someone who thought that the guys on mission can't be lynched, feels like every time I read through the thread again I spot another who got this wrong. (Imagine if all the mafia had thought this when discussing before the game began...) Once called out on this fact being wrong he maintained that all KGB would want to get on the mission so that power roles can't target them. Feels like he is trying to push the angle that KGB are on that mission quite a bit here. I agree there Is a decent chance one of the volunteers is KGB, but all of the guys on the mission? Sounds like someone who REALLY wants the lynches focused on that group. Septimus agrees with this idea of loading up the mission with KGB later on as well and they both have an exchange based on the wrong information even though it has been explained to Enker all ready. He waves it off as being late but with how many times we have clarified that in this thread not so sure I buy that. I'm definitely weary of him now, especially as he slipped under my radar.

Nothing Ezekiel is saying is coming off as scummy to me. Yeah he is posting differently to AC but his explanation for it is good in mg book. If we didn't have AC as a reference we would just see him as an inactive I feel and we have better options out of Ezekiel when it comes to those.

Visulante never said much till this post. He makes a point about discussion of past games is difficult for guys who were not in them but he brings up people double posting to fix errors as if players are doing that to bump up post counts. Feels a bit of a weak argument to me, sure we have had some but also a good chunk of double posts are from players who have something more to say. Also saying new comers should be given a break is a bit iffy. If someone acts scum we have to act accordingly. New comer or not. Also he mentions in two separate posts he would like to ignore missions form tomorrow on. Could he need missions to not run to meet a win condition? As the less active players go he is high up on my watch list.

Mike_Hawk concerns me partly due to this. As it reads lime he has just used burbertings post as an easy way to not need to form opinions himself. He took the easy way out for his suspicion list as well, choosing the first four volunteers. If he is town this will cause problems down the line as he will just follow opinions of others and could be mislead. Or he could be scum who is finding it difficult to form reasonable suspicions of players as he knows they are innocent. I know I had that problem last game. Unsure where to place him on the inactive list as of now.

The godamm is yet to break double digits for posts. Once again someone who misunderstood the missions and early in the day he proudly proclaims that Palmer shouldn't have voted for him as 'all 4 of his posts had been replied to directly'. It sounds good like that till you see that 3 of those were fluffy archer references and the fourth was replied to because he had misunderstood night chats. Again the tactic of giving newcomers a pass crops up which doesn't sit right with me. He has made one or two posts where he replies to a bunch of people though so maybe he is just pushed for time. As with Ezekiel I feel we have better candiqtes if we going for someone with low activity.

 

[TheGoddamn]

The godamm is yet to break double digits for posts. Once again someone who misunderstood the missions and early in the day he proudly proclaims that Palmer shouldn't have voted for him as 'all 4 of his posts had been replied to directly'. It sounds good like that till you see that 3 of those were fluffy archer references and the fourth was replied to because he had misunderstood night chats. Again the tactic of giving newcomers a pass crops up which doesn't sit right with me. He has made one or two posts where he replies to a bunch of people though so maybe he is just pushed for time. As with Ezekiel I feel we have better candiqtes if we going for someone with low activity.

I'm glad for the turn your post made at the end : P I'd like to clarify that I never misunderstood the missions (or else I wouldn't really be calling attention to Septimus's exasperating weirdness regarding the rules). The person who quoted me (Burbeting) misunderstood what I said. You are the one who said here that I didn't misunderstand, and was pointing out something crucial about the night chats and the mafia. I didn't think I had to validate that; I'm sorry for not replying then.

Re: giving new players the benefit of the doubt, I did mean that in the context of where we are in the game. Obviously I don't want to get lynched, but it would be a good thing to let new players find their feet in this relatively low-stakes, low-intelligence first day.

I've addressed my reaction to Palmer's voting for me in my earlier post today; when he voted for me, I didn't realize that he was trying to get me to participate more, which more or less worked. Assuming that the players are in the western hemisphere, I'm in a totally opposite timezone to most people here, so I can't keep up with the activity spikes during American nighttime. Like YNNNY, I try to have more substantial posts when I do get on (although her post count is much higher). Breaking double digits hooray!