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[arkhamguy123]

They just want cash injections from blackrock and any other insidious nefarious ominous corporation we don’t even know about. That’s all it is.

They’re just spreading their ass cheeks for capitalism and comprising vision and/or artistic merit to appear like a better investment. It’s pathetic.

It’s literally “look we racebent this character! look we gender bent this character! look we modeled a grown woman without any ass or tits please give us money mega corporation“

A lot of them are utterly full of shit too. Insomniac, got the Puerto rican flag wrong, removed everything to do with homosexuality in the middle eastern market to make more money, literally changed the Spanish language, hugely disrespectful, to again, appease blackrock. They don’t care about offending minorities when money is involved. It’s all just about money for these clowns like insomniac and every other client on sweetbaby inc

 

[MagiusNecros]

My biggest problem why my escapism lost in most western game is because no matter the genre, they alway go for grounded for sake of "immersion" thats not why I play video games and more importantly I dont need realism to feel immerse in video games.

This my big reason why I'm losing most of my interest in western games and this year I think only bought two and next year there is not much to look forward to when comes western games.

Western games go for realism not immersion. Immersion would be like being part of the game world and it's mechanics and be engaging to stay in. Games about realism are often boring and uninteresting.

Immersion I feel is like reading a good book where you want to find out what happens next. With realism there is no challenge, mystery or intrigue about how things will go down so there isn't any real reason to stick around.

 

[-Minsc-]

I'll answer the second question in the title.

As I get older I desire less and less to escape so I care less and less. Or perhaps, when I was younger I simply played and watched what caught my interest. If gaming is not what I want it to be then it's time to move on. Especially since I don't want to take the time to develop the skills to make the game I'd want.

For those who want to escape I'm sure the indie space has you covered. Gaming is mainstream so a big part of gaming is going to go that path.

 

[Crayon]

I was with my friend this weekend who gets too wrapped up in this stuff. He actually thought SM2 was doing poorly because it was woke. Everything bad was because woke this woke that. Honestly, I have not played anything with that kind of messaging in it. Or at least in an overbearing way. CP77 and BG3 let me make girl characters with danglers but I don't consider that political.

 

[Boralf]

 

[gaming_again]

I was with my friend this weekend who gets too wrapped up in this stuff. He actually thought SM2 was doing poorly because it was woke. Everything bad was because woke this woke that. Honestly, I have not played anything with that kind of messaging in it. Or at least in an overbearing way. CP77 and BG3 let me make girl characters with danglers but I don't consider that political.

Not everything bad is because its woke, but everything woke is bad.

 

[Vick]

CDPR used to be like this but they changed around the time of Witcher 3 and once Teyon expands so will they. Basically you gotta hire artists, engineers and designers. These tend to come from Universities and Unis are one of the most politically left institutions in the West, this isn't a fault, it is simply nature. The kind of people attracted to being faculty and teachers tend to be quite left leaning. Progressive views then concentrate within the Unis and the Unis teach the young how to think and feel about the world. Those same students then spread their beliefs once hired.

Perhaps, but at least it'll be preventively obvious when it happens.
As soon as Piotr Łatocha, a proven great game director and writer (even more for Resistance than Rogue City imo) is no longer in charge it'll be crystal clear what happened.

 

[Danjin44]

Last year we had Elden ring. This year ac6. Dark souls actually changed me. These games are so good for that reason - they stay away from all this crap and focus on a game

FROM are sooooo good at making fantastical worlds that I can immerse myself in.

 

[Raven117]

Just write compelling stores and characters. The rest will all take care of itself.

 

[Guilty_AI]

My biggest problem why my escapism lost in most western game is because no matter the genre, they alway go for grounded for sake of "immersion" thats not why I play video games and more importantly I dont need realism to feel immerse in video games.

This my big reason why I'm losing most of my interest in western games and this year I think only bought two and next year there is not much to look forward to when comes western games.

uh, sure, grounded

 

[Phase]

Just write compelling stores and characters. The rest will all take care of itself.

That's the thing, though. They haven't been hiring people who can. Eventually when the perception is nobody can do it well they'll introduce full AI scripts. It won't be long at this rate.

 

[Crayon]

Not everything bad is because its woke, but everything woke is bad.

That's not always true. I say a woken clock is right twice a day.

 

[Fake]

Nintendo is not getting love enough good lord. Those guys are freaks.

 

[Raven117]

That's the thing, though. They haven't been hiring people who can. Eventually when the perception is nobody can do it well they'll introduce full AI scripts. It won't be long at this rate.

I know they aren’t. But I think even the developers know deep down that these stories aren’t resonating…. Because cheap characters just don’t hit with the audience.

 

[64bitmodels]

Western games go for realism not immersion. Immersion would be like being part of the game world and it's mechanics and be engaging to stay in. Games about realism are often boring and uninteresting.

This is what I don't get. Realistic games are not realistic like literally living out a daily life. They are grounded in the real world sure but they have interesting and fun premises. They are certainly not boring.

Spoiler: long one.

A realistic game is Hitman 3, a game set explicitly in the real world and constrained by the laws of realistic physics. (to the best way a current gen gaming system can simulate them) There are no superpowers or superhuman elements. And yet, thanks to the freedom in being able to assassinate your target it's extremely fun.

A realistic game is Gran Turismo 4, a game set in the contemporary year of 2004 where you live out a career as a driver, starting off as a ragtag driver in slow SUVs, slowly making your way up to F1. And thanks to the freedom, the grind and unique challenges it's one of the best racing games of all time.

A realistic game is Cities Skylines, about as "boring" and "realistic" as you can get. Where you manage and build a city, you deal with costs, taxes, unhappy citizens, it's "realistic". Still one of the best sim type games ever made because of how you can build your city and the customization and freedom offered by that.

And Suggesting that realistic games are unchallenging is just ridiculous. One of the biggest criticisms of realistic games is how their insane devotion to reality can make them challenging as fuck sometimes. Like Dirt Rally 2.0. The physics in that infact make that game stand out, it's unforgiving, it's long, it's brutal. And it's something only afforded to it because it had the balls to have a realistic driving model. And similarly, games that lose their realism would be less fun as a whole.

Like how if Dirt Rally 2 had arcadey physics the game would not be as challenging or satisfying to play.

or how Hitman would not be nearly as fun if the Hitman had invisibility powers and telekinesis since killing your target is about as trivial as walking up to them and emitting a psychic blast at their skull.

Realistic games often use their realism to create challenging and interesting gameplay scenarios that would not be the case had they gone for a more fantastical approach.

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

100% agree. Pervasive current day ideological perspectives have neutered storytelling along with any semblance of realistic expectations in characterisation. Once you awaken to its inclusion, it becomes impossible to ignore. As if everything is very subtly wrong i.e. lead FBI agent repeated deferment to Saga Anderson in AW2 along with 50/50 dual protagonist split or untrained MJ becoming an overpowered Sam Fisher in SM2, ensemble protagonist structure etc… to name a couple of recent examples. It goes further, this character can’t be mentored by a man, this character can’t have any obvious flaws, this character cannot display any traditionally feminine character traits etc. Stories and writing are damn near formulaic these days. Always tell not show. Always unrealistic and pandering.

This also exists beyond just video-games. In-fact, things are much worse in other forms of entertainment. Sincerely, how many beloved IPs have been destroyed via attempts to manoeuvre traditionally masculine focused content into content tailored more towards women? Consider who precisely is the target market for the recent Marvels movie? Does such a market justify the alleged 300+ million budget? Or, switching back to gaming, Forspoken; I can’t imagine a huge market yearning for the inclusion of a sassy black female protagonist in a fantasy setting. Not that there’s a problem with that but sales would have undoubtedly been better had it featured a young male character. Particularly White or Asian given traditional fantasy audiences. I’m sorry if that offends but it’s simply the truth. Pandering in that instance forced closure of the studio and cost many people their livelihoods.

Many of us vote with our wallets but current trends have gotten us to a point where the hobby is particularly difficult to enjoy. With the pending death of physical media, buying titles preowned to avoid money going to activist developers will be off the table soon. In truth, I yearn for things to be more like it was in the 90s or 2000s. Anything went back then and there was a place for everything. Even the odd pandering insufferable game, well, if there was a market for it...

 

[Danjin44]

Realistic games often use their realism to create challenging and interesting gameplay scenarios that would not be the case had they gone for a more fantastical approach.

For my taste in find realism and stimulation very boring, I play games for out of the world experience, this is mostly why I always prefer fanatical setting over realistic one any day.

I'm someone who enjoyed AW2 but I HATE how boooooring the enemy design are in that game and people argue its more realistic that way but Alan is in Dark Place which they could have easily gone same route as Silent Hill and Evil Within and give us interesting enemies like this...

but instead in AW2 this only type of enemies we fight with....

 

[64bitmodels]

For my taste in find realism and stimulation very boring,

That's cool, it's your opinion. I wasn't replying to you. Was talking to the guy who said that they're boring, predictable and unchallenging because I don't agree.

 

[Eiknarf]

What happens at the end of Alan Wake 2? What’s the woke thing (I never finished it)?

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

It's happening across all entertainment, not just gaming.

Every character is completely ruined by it. You can predict the way the game will treat them (hero or villain) based on a cursory glance at how they align with the current grid of protected classes and elevated personas.

It also ruins the reality of human differences and creates a nonsensical world where we're just random body parts and assemblies without any unifying patterns. Sex is decomposed into "body types" to blur the lines, strength will be uncoupled from sex etc, and you'll consistently see every character with a profession just happen to be the least historically likely for that person (you'll meet overwhelming numbers of female pilots and engineers on games like Starfield). Because they write everything backwards. Not "this character has this general composition and body and sex, so we'll usually make their personality align reasonably with it according to normal human patterns" but instead "any assumption you might make about them needs to be inverted or else it's harmful." So damn tiring.

 

[Puscifer]

That's the thing, though. They haven't been hiring people who can. Eventually when the perception is nobody can do it well they'll introduce full AI scripts. It won't be long at this rate.

I wish a lot of OG websites weren't down so I could source it easier. But at one point I distinctly remember Gameinformer mentioning that during the 360/PS3 era the average script was purchased for around 10K vs having a full blown writer for 100K salaried, granted that's clearly changed especially with some of these AAA games but I have a feeling we're back to that

 

[Pasta la Vista]

I wasn't aware of this Sweet Baby company and their use in the industry. Puts a lot of things in perspective. Fucking disgusting.

 

[Stooky]

there is always an agenda when creating art. 10,000 games were released on steam in 2022 what percentage of those games are political? are We taking about the 4 or 5 major releases from AAA or 1st party studios? can’t take a handful of games and then make a claim that this is the agenda of an entire industry.

 

[MiguelItUp]

As a whole, no, but in a lot of the major AAA games, yeah. You're seeing a lot of that. It just really depends on the studios and teams involved. I just hate real topics of any form being forced into entertainment. The world sucks in so many ways, I don't want to be reminded when I'm trying to escape it, lol.

Even then, certain topics can be touched on without coming off as forced, pander-y, etc. But not often, unfortunately. Thankfully there's easy ways around it. So just steer accordingly.

 

[semiconscious]

I know they aren’t. But I think even the developers know deep down that these stories aren’t resonating…. Because cheap characters just don’t hit with the audience.

the single weirdest aspect of woke ideology is that the vast majority of people supporting it very obviously don't actually believe it. it's like the emperor's clothes story, except the emperor's espousing woke ideology, & everyone's going "oh yeah, yeah, this all makes perfect sense!"...

so, while i agree with you, i also think that anything short of collapsed sales figures will, despite this, only result in more of the same. unless, of course, whatever the fuck mysterious momentum that manages to keep this moronic woke boat afloat finally itself experiences its long-overdue (as in, self-parody levels of stupid right now) collapse...

 

[Humdinger]

Many people have commented about how this ideological insertion produces bland, boring, predictable characters. It made me wonder, have videogames created any great protagonists recently -- like in the last 7 years or so? I'm talking about characters that capture the popular imagination. Nathan Drake and Master Chief would be two console-centric examples. Nintendo obviously rests on characters (Link, Mario, et al.) created much earlier. But with all our modern focus on cinematic storytelling, have videogames produced any memorable characters lately -- characters who will stand the test of time?

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

Many people have commented about how this ideological insertion produces bland, boring, predictable characters. It made me wonder, have videogames created any great protagonists recently -- like in the last 7 years or so? I'm talking about characters that capture the popular imagination. Nathan Drake and Master Chief would be two console-centric examples. Nintendo obviously rests on characters (Link, Mario, et al.) created much earlier. But with all our modern focus on cinematic storytelling, have videogames produced any memorable characters lately -- characters who will stand the test of time?

Difficult question.

Does Splatoon count?

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

Many people have commented about how this ideological insertion produces bland, boring, predictable characters. It made me wonder, have videogames created any great protagonists recently -- like in the last 7 years or so? I'm talking about characters that capture the popular imagination. Nathan Drake and Master Chief would be two console-centric examples. Nintendo obviously rests on characters (Link, Mario, et al.) created much earlier. But with all our modern focus on cinematic storytelling, have videogames produced any memorable characters lately -- characters who will stand the test of time?

I can only speak for myself but it's been Selene Vassos of Returnal for me. That game put a middle-aged woman front and center and nobody made a peep because she's an incredibly fleshed-out, interesting character that isn't simply an avatar for corny political grandstanding.

As a minority myself, I want those types of characters, not fucking avatars for fake-ass political rants done simply to appease.

 

[64bitmodels]

Many people have commented about how this ideological insertion produces bland, boring, predictable characters. It made me wonder, have videogames created any great protagonists recently -- like in the last 7 years or so? I'm talking about characters that capture the popular imagination. Nathan Drake and Master Chief would be two console-centric examples. Nintendo obviously rests on characters (Link, Mario, et al.) created much earlier. But with all our modern focus on cinematic storytelling, have videogames produced any memorable characters lately -- characters who will stand the test of time?

mmh. Geralt from Witcher 3 and Madeline from Celeste stick out as universally hailed well written characters, i think they will stand the test of time. But neither of those games are cinematic to the same extent TLOU or GOW are.

And frankly this whole idea that AAA is more cinematic than ever is ridiculous. Like, be honest: can you think of any non-Sony games that fit the description of "overly cinematic movie games"? many western AAA typically tell their stories more through gameplay exposition than walk and talk segments or hours upon hours of unskippable cutscenes. They are a minority, granted a very well known minority thanks to their marketing and review scores but still a minority.
Street Fighter 6, Resident Evil 4 Remake, Baldur's Gate 3, Pikmin 4, Jedi Survivor, Armored Core VI, and Lies of P. All very non cinematic, gameplay oriented games.

I can only speak for myself but it's been Selene Vassos of Returnal for me. That game put a middle-aged woman front and center and nobody made a peep because she's an incredibly fleshed-out, interesting character that isn't simply an avatar for corny political grandstanding.

As a minority myself, I want those types of characters, not fucking avatars for fake-ass political rants done simply to appease.

You do realize that one of the biggest talking points on this board upon the game's release and subsequent rerelease for PC is that no one wanted it because no one wanted to play as an uglyass middle aged lady.... right?

 

[Raonak]

Is this more anti-woke crying?

1. Creators have always created things that align with their world views.

2. Creative people are generally more progressive than they are conservative.

3. The workforce is diverse. Programmers and artists come in many many different shapes and sizes.

4. The audience is diverse. The gaming audience is global now.

 

[Stooky]

Is this more anti-woke crying?

1. Creators have always created things that align with their world views.

2. Creative people are generally more progressive than they are conservative.

3. The workforce is diverse. Programmers and artists come in many many different shapes and sizes.

4. The audience is diverse. The gaming audience is global now.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Gaming is mainstream so a big part of gaming is going to go that path.

So if gaming is going a horrible direction, we should just let it?

 

[Guilty_AI]

1. Creators have always created things that align with their world views.

Now they align with the world views of their investors, which are usually the same ones.

2. Creative people are generally more progressive than they are conservative.

And progressiveness in the modern days is the equivalent of crying over irrelevant things on twitter.
Thus the infamous "millenial writing".

3. The workforce is diverse. Programmers and artists come in many many different shapes and sizes.

Yet all follow the same standards and have the same type of education.

4. The audience is diverse. The gaming audience is global now.

Yet there's a push to make all games look like modern day San Francisco.

 

[gaming_again]

Is this more anti-woke crying?

1. Creators have always created things that align with their world views.

2. Creative people are generally more progressive than they are conservative.

3. The workforce is diverse. Programmers and artists come in many many different shapes and sizes.

4. The audience is diverse. The gaming audience is global now.

If it's so diverse, why is it all pushing the same message?

 

[Raonak]

Yet all follow the same standards and have the same type of education.

That's completely false.

Yet there's a push to make all games look like modern day San Francisco.

Also false.

And progressiveness in the modern days is the equivalent of crying over irrelevant things on twitter.

This thread is literally "crying over irrelevant things on twitter."

 

[Ozzie666]

The approach worked really well for the CW, Arrowverse and most of it's shows.
...

 

[Humdinger]

mmh. Geralt from Witcher 3 and Madeline from Celeste stick out as universally hailed well written characters, i think they will stand the test of time. But neither of those games are cinematic to the same extent TLOU or GOW are.

Geralt might be a candidate, although you could argue he's not really the creation of videogame developers; he pre-existed in book form. (edit: and he made his entrance in 2007, so that's a decade earlier than the period I'm talking about). I don't think Celeste would qualify; the audience is too small and niche. I'm looking for something bigger -- something that captures the popular imagination, maybe even becomes iconic.
If you'd have asked me a couple years ago, I might've nominated Aloy, but they screwed her up in the sequel.

And frankly this whole idea that AAA is more cinematic than ever is ridiculous. Like, be honest: can you think of any non-Sony games that fit the description of "overly cinematic movie games"? many western AAA typically tell their stories more through gameplay exposition than walk and talk segments or hours upon hours of unskippable cutscenes.

It's not "ridiculous," but I take your point that -- when applied to non-Sony games, the pattern isn't that prevalent. But there are some -- RDR2 comes to mind, for instance.

Btw, unlike you, I do not exempt "walk and talk" segments from the "cinematic" category. Cinematic (to me) means more than just unskippable cutscenes. It also includes the long walk & talk segments you're referring to, where all you do is push a stick forward or something like that, maybe press an occasional button. There is a lot of that going on lately. I do consider that part of the "cinematic" or "movie game" approach. It certainly isn't gameplay.

They are a minority, granted a very well known minority thanks to their marketing and review scores but still a minority.
Street Fighter 6, Resident Evil 4 Remake, Baldur's Gate 3, Pikmin 4, Jedi Survivor, Armored Core VI, and Lies of P. All very non cinematic, gameplay oriented games.

Sure. No one is saying that gameplay-centric games are gone.

 

[64bitmodels]

Btw, unlike you, I do not exempt "walk and talk" segments from the "cinematic" category.

shit i must have worded it wrong, i meant to put walk and talk IN the cinematic category. hence the or. excuse my grammar

 

[Humdinger]

shit i must have worded it wrong, i meant to put walk and talk IN the cinematic category. hence the or. excuse my grammar

Oh, I think I misunderstood what you meant. When I re-read it, I got it. My bad.

Alan Walk 2 would be a recent example of that...

 

[64bitmodels]

Sure. No one is saying that gameplay-centric games are gone.

It's not necessarily a response to you but this general sentiment across the more entrenched gaming community that everything is all cinematic and every modern AAA game is a movie.

People will then use this as an excuse to plug indies, AA or Nintendo games which are not bad suggestions and there are many fun games to be found in those categories too, but it really paints every AAA game released as some unfun movie type mess with 0 interactivity, walk and talk sections, unskippable cutscenes when in reality it's just Sony doing those things (which again, is understandable because Sony games get insane amounts of exposure and publicity)

 

[rabbity-thing]

Okay, as one of the resident wokes, I'll bite.

I guess my general thesis is that if we take gaming as an artform (which it is) it is terribly naive for us to continue to expect that it somehow could (or even should) remain an avenue simply for escapist fantasies. The more mature this medium becomes, the more varied the stories will become. And that's okay. That's what's supposed to happen. The tent is big enough that people with varied interests can purchase and enjoy games that match those interests.

Honestly, the constant whining because someone may not like that a game may have a political agenda or leaning is getting old. The gaming environment you want is gone. Music, movies, television, books, comics, paintings, poetry, and every other artistic medium out there has its fair share of politically driven and informed work. Politics touches many lives and since art often reflects the experiences of the artists, it only makes sense that politics would very much be on the table when creating videogames.

So just like with every other art form, you will continue to get your pure escapism, but it shouldn't be surprising in the slightest that as the medium matures, artists will want to do something besides only escapist entertainment. Speaking of what the artists want to do, this idea that artists don't want to create more inclusive art that highlights specific communities is also kind of getting old. Like, if a game does something that doesn't agree with one's expectations, it must automatically be something that was forced on the creators instead of the intentions of the creators themselves. Is it so hard to believe that people want to make games that don't appeal to you specifically?

I get that some don't like heavy handed bad story telling, but that's hardly the fault of the politics and more to do with bad writing. And if we're being honest, we're dealing with a very reactionary community where some are triggered by the mere existence of a pride flag existing in a recreation of New York City. As though pride flags don't exist in New York City. Omitting it, honestly, would be more politically motivated than including it.

 

[Astral Dog]

you will eat the sludge and you better like it

 

[64bitmodels]

I guess my general thesis is that if we take gaming as an artform (which it is) it is terribly naive for us to continue to expect that it somehow could (or even should) remain an avenue simply for escapist fantasies. The more mature this medium becomes, the more varied the stories will become. And that's okay. That's what's supposed to happen. The tent is big enough that people with varied interests can purchase and enjoy games that match those interests.

Yep. I feel like we should not be here saying that games are ART when we all use it for escapism. And sometimes i question the escapism argument to begin with. Not to say that life is all roses and sunshine but the average GAF user seems to be middle class, with a nice wife, home, kids and pet. What in the hell are you guys escaping from???

I'd also like to make an addendum that this sort of thing is inappropriate in Spiderman 2, Alan Wake or Starfield. Games that are set in either present times (which are currently pretty progressive) or far into the future (where we're assumed to get even MORE progressive).

Why would it be unrealistic to assume stuff like pronouns and gender identity are not more common and widely accepted in the future when they're already quite big topics in the current day? and why pretend they don't exist in modern day in games that are set in modern day? If these games are to more accurately portray their current setting it makes sense they'd include the "woke" or political elements too. That includes the LGBT murals, gay kids, and yes, even deaf people.

If you're not a fan of that, consider buying more games set in the past with fantasy settings?

 

[semiconscious]

So just like with every other art form, you will continue to get your pure escapism, but it shouldn't be surprising in the slightest that as the medium matures, artists will want to do something besides only escapist entertainment. Speaking of what the artists want to do, this idea that artists don't want to create more inclusive art that highlights specific communities is also kind of getting old. Like, if a game does something that doesn't agree with one's expectations, it must automatically be something that was forced on the creators instead of the intentions of the creators themselves. Is it so hard to believe that people want to make games that don't appeal to you specifically?...

seriously: is there anything less mature, & more escapist than believing a man can be a woman, & vice versa?...

creating a perfectly harmonious, diversified world has nothing to do with the medium maturing, or becoming less escapist. quite the contrary: it's simply the bringing to life of ideological ideals & fantasies that don't exist in the non-escapist, actual real world. the one where true maturity is found...

 

[Guilty_AI]

seriously: is there anything less mature, & more escapist than believing a man can be a woman, & vice versa?...

Are you saying a man becoming a woman isn't normal?

 

[64bitmodels]

creating a perfectly harmonious, diversified world has nothing to do with the medium maturing, or becoming less escapist. quite the contrary: it's simply the bringing to life of ideological ideals & fantasies that don't exist in the non-escapist, actual real world. the one where true maturity is found...

so, would you want more games to tackle the discrimination and injustices found in the real world? wouldn't that be pretty woke as well? Why bring attention to them if the medium is used purposely for escapism?

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

wife, home, kids and pet. What in the hell are you guys escaping from???

 

[Humdinger]

It's not necessarily a response to you but this general sentiment across the more entrenched gaming community that everything is all cinematic and every modern AAA game is a movie.

People will then use this as an excuse to plug indies, AA or Nintendo games which are not bad suggestions and there are many fun games to be found in those categories too, but it really paints every AAA game released as some unfun movie type mess with 0 interactivity, walk and talk sections, unskippable cutscenes when in reality it's just Sony doing those things (which again, is understandable because Sony games get insane amounts of exposure and publicity)

Fair point, and I am probably guilty of doing that myself sometimes. I was a big Sony fan in the PS4 era, and I've only recently come to realize that I dislike their cinematic approach. I probably overgeneralize my attitude to the whole AAA space.

 

[Alexios]

No, just a case of watching too many youtuber idiots' videos. Can't wait for Ichiban 2: The Ichibaning, loads of great characters in that series for a recent (and ongoing for 18 years) example. I'd blame bland characters on bad writers rather than thing x and y for everything but I don't watch youtubers.

 

[{insert code here}]

Yall need to move away from Western media/entertainment. It's toast.

Games: Plenty of incredible Japanese/Korean/Chinese titles

Film: Korean (subtitled) movies/shows and anime.

Just walk away, it's joever.