• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Argentines seek peaceful resolution in Falklands, Brits says its settled.

Status
Not open for further replies.

elsk

Banned
Pretty funny how the british think las Malvinas belong to them. Spain kicked you guys out of the Malvinas, then nobody lived there until Argentina sent some guys there. A few years later UK invades and now they're yours? In that line of thinking, Belize should still be UK territory.

That sounds like a colony to me. And yes, it makes more sense to give the Malvinas to Argentina because they aren't like half world of distance from from the islands.
 

Meadows

Banned
Pretty funny how the british think las Malvinas belong to them. Spain kicked you guys out of the Malvinas, then nobody lived there until Argentina sent some guys there. A few years later UK invades and now they're yours? In that line of thinking, Belize should still be UK territory.

That sounds like a colony to me. And yes, it makes more sense to give the Malvinas to Argentina because they aren't like half world of distance from from the islands.

f712cfc2078f9d2ab2bc55d0ad6e597f.png


There are 11th generation Falklanders
 
Obama signed a deceleration that named the Falklands as the "Malvinas". Disgraceful.

The State department also referred to them as the Malvinas.

That's their Spanish name. Its not taking sides.
Only 3 countries in the OAS speak english. Most work is done in Spanish and they used the Spanish name even the US refers to itself as los Estados Unidos and not America at the OAS
bio_Carmen_Lomelin_sm.jpg


The US has not changed it position on the issue since 1940
 
As of 2009-2010, the Foreign Office had more staff in New Delhi than in Washington which seems to reflect a growing trend in the West of focus on Asia. Here are some key quotes from a report released that year.

Sir David Manning

The truth is we can go and talk to the Administration about any issue that we want to, if it matters to us and we want to discuss it with the Administration or on the Hill,we have access. We are very fortunate, and I think it is the case that we probably have as good access as anybody, and probably better than most. Access doesn’t necessarily mean that what you ask for you are going to get, of course, and I think we need to be realistic about that. This is an unequal relationship in the sense that the United States is a global power. We are not; and one of the things that I think we have to be conscious of is that, on a lot of these issues, there’s not much we can do by ourselves.
Sir Jeremy Greenstock

The United States would want something in the Security Council, but the United States tends to walk around with quite heavy boots, and there are sensitive flowers in the United Nations [...]. The UK is a lot better at the tactical handling of other delegations and of language in drafting texts and tactical manoeuvring....When we agree with the United States, we can be very helpful to it in that kind of subterranean tactical handling, which doesn’t come out in public. The Americans appreciate that, because it brings them something they don’t normally have. We of course gain from being on the coat tails of the immense power operation of the United States, which brings us into places that we wouldn’t reach if we were just on our own and we wouldn’t reach, frankly, if we were just with the European Union.
Nick Witney commented that, for politicians, “there isn’t a better photo-op than in the Rose Garden or the White House”, while Stryker McGuire argued that for British prime ministers who are “encountering rough seas at home”, the ‘special relationship’ can be a “comfort blanket” providing “safe harbour” and offering “ego-boosting” properties. A recurrent theme in much of the evidence we received was that the UK’s approach to the US could more appropriately be characterised as subservient rather than simply subordinate. The accusation is not new. On a number of occasions since the end of theCold War, Britain has been accused of failing to define its own agenda, and of passively following the US lead. During our current inquiry, the issue of the UK’s alleged undue deference towards the US achieved particular prominence in connection with the continuing debate over Tony Blair’s relationship with George W. Bush and the 2003 Iraq War.

Note: When Tony Blair was giving evidence in the Iraq enquiry, he stated “this is an alliance that we have with the United States of America. It is not a contract; it’s not, ‘You do this and we’ll do that’

Simultaneously, the growth in geopolitical power of the rising economies such as,Brazil, Russia, India and China (the so called BRICs) demanded the US’s attention whilst also challenging US influence in some areas and arguably diminishing the importance of the UK and Europe to America’s wider diplomacy. Professor Clarke commented that the “dangers and opportunities presented by the Asian economies […] and the natural economic asymmetry between American and Chinese economic needs”, suggest that the US would pay considerably more attention to East Asia and the Pacific arenas of economic and trade activity. He noted that China currently held 83% of the US trade deficit in non oil goods, amounting to some $800 billion, while the US was the dominant market forChinese manufacturers - responsible for perhaps 50-60 million Chinese jobs. He continues,“and all this while China’s currency is kept undervalued by anything from 20–30%—a huge protectionist trade barrier operated by Beijing that infuriates Congress. These imbalances will not be righted quickly and suggest a volatile economic relationship that is probably structural”
Some choice quotes further reinforce the stance that the value of this relationship will continue to diminish. What was also interesting, although perhaps not surprising, was that there were members within the US administration who were frustrated with what they felt was the British 'obsession' with the relationship.
 

Loonz

Member
If there's any oil there the US will end up wanting its piece, and it's probable that getting it would be far easier with the Argentinians on the isles than with the British. They could deceive them into thinking they'll have some control on the Malvinas, while they rack the petrol up and have a safe port for their warships in the South Atlantic. An outlandish idea, I know. But somehow I believe Argentina is testing the US position as much as the British, because let's face it the US is the real superpower here.

And please, could you stop using "the will of the inhabitants should be taken into account" argument?. Nobody asked the people at Hong Kong whether they wanted to join China or not, they were forced to do so and they were millions. Stop faking any concerns about them. British government only cares about them because that "justifies" their presence there, only that. Not that I think Argentina is any good about this. If those islands had no natural resources nobody would care about them in any way.
 

numble

Member
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/f712cfc2078f9d2ab2bc55d0ad6e597f.png[IMG]

There are 11th generation Falklanders[/QUOTE]
Here's a timeland for another group of islands:

1661-1669: Abandoned wasteland
1669-1699: Qing dynasty, Manchurian empire
1699-1841: British East India Company
1841-1941: UK
1941-1945: Japan
1945-1997: UK

Who should these islands belong to?
 

elsk

Banned
f712cfc2078f9d2ab2bc55d0ad6e597f.png


There are 11th generation Falklanders

So? Spain got almost all Latin America for +300 years, more time than any of those countries have 'lived' in independence. So all Latin America belong to Spain? C'mon.

British foundations to call Malvinas theirs are at least as good as the Argentina's.
 
You guys sure have a hardon for that silly looking boat

It is there to defend the island and it'll do its job if called upon. Its actually the Argentines that have got their panties in a twist about it. Its not even newsworthy because we've been sending ships there on a tour of duty since they illegally invaded.

I particularly like the fact that it could destroy Argentina's air force and navy in less time than it would take me to cook dinner.

The facts are that Argentina has ramped up the rhetoric about The Falklands to deflect attention away from their own fuck ups.
 

dalin80

Banned
So? Spain got almost all Latin America for +300 years, more time than any of those countries have 'lived' in independence. So all Latin America belong to Spain? C'mon.

British foundations to call Malvinas theirs is just as at least as good as the Argentina's.

Argentina doesnt have any claim to the falklands.
 

Kurtofan

Member
So? Spain got almost all Latin America for +300 years, more time than any of those countries have 'lived' in independence. So all Latin America belong to Spain? C'mon.

British foundations to call Malvinas theirs are at least as good as the Argentina's.

What about the people who live there?Shouldn't they have their say in the matter?
 

elsk

Banned
What about the people who live there?Shouldn't they have their say in the matter?

Most of them are british obviously. When Britain took the islands over, they sent all the 'natives' to Argentina and nobody with an argentina passport could get in. It has been a long time. That would be like asking the people of the colony in Latin America back then if they wanted to be independent or part of Spain and just letting the spaniards vote...

They should "split" the island control in half and be done with it.
 

elsk

Banned

Why not? It would be the most peaceful way to end this.
Argentina considers it to be part of their country, they had a port-town there before the british took it over and it makes more sense because of the geographic location of the islands and the countries. The british have a colony there for long time.

Only way to end this would be to give half of the island to each side.
 

CrazyDude

Member
Why not? It would be the most peaceful way to end this.
Argentina considers it to be part of their country, they had a port-town there before the british took it over and it makes more sense because of the geographic location of the islands and the countries. The british have a colony there for long time.

Only way to end this would be to give half of the island to each side.
Neither side would except that.
 
Why not? It would be the most peaceful way to end this.
Argentina considers it to be part of their country, they had a port-town there before the british took it over and it makes more sense because of the geographic location of the islands and the countries. The british have a colony there for long time.

Only way to end this would be to give half of the island to each side.

So you think the best solution is no please neither of the parties?

Argentina would encroach on the British half and still claim it.
Britain would lose half of something that it possesses and the islanders would not get what they want in the matter.
 

Bo-Locks

Member
So? Spain got almost all Latin America for +300 years, more time than any of those countries have 'lived' in independence. So all Latin America belong to Spain? C'mon.

British foundations to call Malvinas theirs is just as at least as good as the Argentina's.

The modern states of South America were formed as the people wanted independence from Spain and other European powers. The Falkland Islanders (who have their own government and a great degree of autonomy) do not want independence. They have been there since before Argentina even existed as a state and they did not displace any indigenous population.
 

elsk

Banned
The modern states of South America were formed as the people wanted independence from Spain and other European powers. The Falkland Islanders (who have their own government and a great degree of autonomy) do not want independence. They have been there since before Argentina even existed as a state and they did not displace any indigenous population.

That would be like asking Spaniards at the colonial time if they wanted to be independent. The difference is that there are very few Argentina people in the island because they were thrown away when UK invaded the place. I would agree if the population wasn't 99% from britain heritage.

Why didn't they voted before they ousted the Argentina people there?
 

Log4Girlz

Member
Completely different situation. It would be more comparable if the UK saying Martha's Vineyard is theirs and still being in control of them and putting navy army around it.

We would have the whole rest of the US...I wouldn't see a problem if they weren't being aggressive to the mainland and they've been in Martha's Vineyard this whole time.
 

Meadows

Banned
We would have the whole rest of the US...I wouldn't see a problem if they weren't being aggressive to the mainland and they've been in Martha's Vineyard this whole time.

But the UK have been in the Falklands or 180 years continuously (apart from when the Argentinians invaded and put landmines all over the island)
 

Kurtofan

Member
That would be like asking Spaniards at the colonial time if they wanted to be independent. The difference is that there are very few Argentina people in the island because they were thrown away when UK invaded the place. I would agree if the population wasn't 99% from britain heritage.

Why didn't they voted before they ousted the Argentina people there?

All the people who lived through the British invasion are dead now.
 

elsk

Banned
Actually, I agree with one of you guys said about las Malvinas being just a way to deflect attention away from their own fuck ups. Argentina should fix all the problems they have in their current territory first.

But I disagree with UK saying Malvinas are theirs. They just have a colony there and use it to get oil, and other resources for free. We're way past colony times imo.
 

genjiZERO

Member
Pretty funny how the british think las Malvinas belong to them. Spain kicked you guys out of the Malvinas, then nobody lived there until Argentina sent some guys there. A few years later UK invades and now they're yours? In that line of thinking, Belize should still be UK territory.

That sounds like a colony to me. And yes, it makes more sense to give the Malvinas to Argentina because they aren't like half world of distance from from the islands.

Under this logic then Argentinians of European decent should abandon the country and hand it back to the Indigenous peoples.
 

dschalter

Member
If there's any oil there the US will end up wanting its piece, and it's probable that getting it would be far easier with the Argentinians on the isles than with the British. They could deceive them into thinking they'll have some control on the Malvinas, while they rack the petrol up and have a safe port for their warships in the South Atlantic. An outlandish idea, I know. But somehow I believe Argentina is testing the US position as much as the British, because let's face it the US is the real superpower here.

And please, could you stop using "the will of the inhabitants should be taken into account" argument?. Nobody asked the people at Hong Kong whether they wanted to join China or not, they were forced to do so and they were millions. Stop faking any concerns about them. British government only cares about them because that "justifies" their presence there, only that. Not that I think Argentina is any good about this. If those islands had no natural resources nobody would care about them in any way.

Hong Kong joined China in large part because a significant amount of the territory owned by Britain had only been leased to them, rather than outright ceded (though the main island was owned).

Why didn't they voted before they ousted the Argentina people there?

This is hilarious.
 

elsk

Banned
But the UK have been in the Falklands or 180 years continuously (apart from when the Argentinians invaded and put landmines all over the island)

As I understand there was a time when nobody was doing anything with the island, then Argentine built a port Puerto Argentina and a few years later Britain invaded and throw them out.

Under this logic then Argentinians of European decent should abandon the country and hand it back to the Indigenous peoples.

Wow.
 
But the UK have been in the Falklands or 180 years continuously (apart from when the Argentinians invaded and put landmines all over the island)

So its just about whose been there longer? Thats a dangerous road to go down. (See tibet, palestine, etc)

The only argument you need is that the people like what it is. Though I don't understand why you say the have NO claim to the island.
 

Bo-Locks

Member
Most of them are british obviously. When Britain took the islands over, they sent all the 'natives' to Argentina and nobody with an argentina passport could get in. It has been a long time. That would be like asking the people of the colony in Latin America back then if they wanted to be independent or part of Spain and just letting the spaniards vote...

They should "split" the island control in half and be done with it.

Hang on. There are 10th generation Islanders in the Falklands, are they British too? By you're logic, most of the inhabitants of South America are Spanish, Portugese and French. For shits and giggles, Cristina Fernández is a 3rd generation European (I think).

Secondly, there were no "natives". The Islands were uninhabited until the 18th century. In the middle of the 19th century, the British expelled a garrison from Buenos Aires who had been there for a few months, pointing to the plaque claiming British sovereignty which had been laid many years earlier.

Thirdly, did you know that currently Argentines are allowed to visit the Falklands, but Falkland Islanders are essentially blacklisted from visiting Argentina and the rest of South America?
 

Foothills

Banned
Completely different situation. It would be more comparable if the UK saying Martha's Vineyard is theirs and still being in control of them and putting navy army around it.

Stop tag fishing for a "ruined by the argentine propaganda in schools" tag
 

elsk

Banned
Stop tag fishing for a "ruined by the argentine propaganda in schools" tag

oh, now you think I'm from Argentina?
I just don't support colonies at all.

Secondly, there were no "natives". The Islands were uninhabited until the 18th century. In the middle of the 19th century, the British expelled a garrison from Buenos Aires who had been there for a few months, pointing to the plaque claiming British sovereignty which had been laid many years earlier.

Exactly, and I don't get who gave the islands to UK? The islands were uninhabited until Argentina sent people over there and built the port-town. A few years later british navy invaded and sent argentina people to Argentina.

And that's pretty much why I don't get how you guys think a voting would be fair if all the Argentina people were sent out.

If territories are given to the country with more army power then I do have a problem with it. Because that's the only way the british took las Malvinas and not Argentina.
 

Log4Girlz

Member
Actually, I agree with one of you guys said about las Malvinas being just a way to deflect attention away from their own fuck ups. Argentina should fix all the problems they have in their current territory first.

But I disagree with UK saying Malvinas are theirs. They just have a colony there and use it to get oil, and other resources for free. We're way past colony times imo.

Usually with colonies, you have occupiers of a land inhabited mostly by another people. Aren't the Falklands inhabited totally by brits? Doesn't sound like a colony to me.
 

dschalter

Member
oh, now you think I'm from Argentina?
I just don't support colonies at all.



Exactly, and I don't get who gave the islands to UK? The islands were uninhabited until Argentina sent people over there and built the port-town. A few years later british navy invaded and sent argentina people to Argentina.

And that's pretty much why I don't get how you guys think a voting would be fair if all the Argentina people were sent out.

If territories are given to the country with more army power then I do have a problem with it. Because that's the only way the british took las Malvinas and not Argentina.

You can't just say that because some took something from someone at some point that it has to be reversed. As has been noted, by that logic you should tell the Argentinians to leave Argentina, because their ancestors came and drove off and killed the people who lived there.
 

Kurtofan

Member
And that's pretty much why I don't get how you guys think a voting would be fair if all the Argentina people were sent out.

They were sent out almost two centuries ago.
If there were an important Argentine population on the island a majority would have subsisted and maybe Argentina would have a reasonable claim to have the island, but that's clearly not the case.
A majority of British people live there since then.
 

GJS

Member
Actually, I agree with one of you guys said about las Malvinas being just a way to deflect attention away from their own fuck ups. Argentina should fix all the problems they have in their current territory first.

But I disagree with UK saying Malvinas are theirs. They just have a colony there and use it to get oil, and other resources for free. We're way past colony times imo.

For the vast majority of the time that the UK has had people living on the Falklands it was unknown that it had any usable resources such as oil.

The Argentinian people are something like 80%+ European descent and are made up of people who took over control from the indigenous population, they are no better then the rest of us.

Before 1833 the Argentine government didn't want anything to do with the island, it was inhabited by a French man who employed approximately 40 workers, and in 1833 when the British took control there was supposedly only 20 people there and it was a run down shit hole.

You know what the most peaceful solution would be? Leave it alone, it is fine the way it is. None of the populations who have lived there were ever indigenous, they are all in some way or another European colonist's, but out of all those who have lived there the population of British descent has lived there the longest.
 

dalin80

Banned
Exactly, and I don't get who gave the islands to UK? The islands were uninhabited until Argentina sent people over there and built the port-town. A few years later british navy invaded and sent argentina people to Argentina.
.

essentially the Spanish when they left, although a claiming plaque was left by the British which by what laws there were of the time made the islands British, the Argentinians simply ignored that prior claim and trespassed, claimed already claimed land and built a small town, the British turned up and said 'get off our land' which they had every right to do whether moral or not.


Also under current laws and UN charter the UK simply cant give the islands even if they wanted to, the islands are under UK protectorate and cannot change status unless the islanders living their wished it to do so. Under current laws the UK legally has to respond to any request for help made by the governor of the islands regardless.
 

Meadows

Banned
Another fun fact, Argentina are got Chile to cut the number of flights to one a week, and has also stopped the Islands from receiving fresh fruit/vegetables and eggs from South America.

Fucking bullies.
 

genjiZERO

Member
oh, now you think I'm from Argentina?
I just don't support colonies at all.



Exactly, and I don't get who gave the islands to UK? The islands were uninhabited until Argentina sent people over there and built the port-town. A few years later british navy invaded and sent argentina people to Argentina.

And that's pretty much why I don't get how you guys think a voting would be fair if all the Argentina people were sent out.

Who gave Argentina to the Europeans who live there? I think the indigenous who weren't murdered want at least Patagonia back...
 

elsk

Banned
Good, then you're against Argentina attempting to create a colony by invading part of another sovereign nation.

oh wait, you aren't.

Malvinas is an UK colony. If Argentina takes it over it wouldn't be a colony, it's a part of their territory as it says in their constitution.

Only reason why Uk has the Malvinas is because they have more army power than Argentina when they sent people out of it in the 1800, and in any time in the history obviously :p
 

markot

Banned
Argentina has about as much of a claim to Falklands as I do >_<;

What does its status as a colony have to do with anything? The people in the Falklands dont want to be part of Argentina, thats enough isnt it? Why force them to live under the rule of people who have no real claim to their land? Let them vote and see what they want, because its 'their' island first and foremost.
 

Meadows

Banned
For the record, my preference would be for the island to be independent, since it costs the UK a lot to maintain a presence there, but the residents are afraid Argentina would invade again, and there's only 3000 people so it's kind of hard to build a functioning UN democracy if like 50% of the population suddenly became politicians.
 

elsk

Banned
For the record, my preference would be for the island to be independent, since it costs the UK a lot to maintain a presence there, but the residents are afraid Argentina would invade again, and there's only 3000 people so it's kind of hard to build a functioning UN democracy if like 50% of the population suddenly became politicians.

Yes, actually I would prefer the island to be independent. I suggest the Argentina option because it would be the most realistic one to stop the island from being a colony.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom