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[Utherellus]

Unrelated question, is this the level of graphic we can expect from starfield?!

I doubt that Creation Engine 2 can catch up with SQ42. Beyond scam jokes and drama, their tech was always groundbreaking.

TLOU2 just for technical comparison. No warring.

It just shows that targeting PC platform, devs could reach impressive af numbers, outracing industry standards.

Not to mention freaking time travel lmao, they had SSD planet traversal mechanics working ingame when next-gen marketing of how SSD would change game design, was not even started yet.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

So I just realized my distant view of this game has been tainted by the NeoGAF collective who thinks all multiplayer, f2p, GAAS, early access games are a "scam".

There's a massive amount of Star Citizen players that love the game right?

 

[Nobody_Important]

So I just realized my distant view of this game has been tainted by the NeoGAF collective who thinks all multiplayer, f2p, GAAS, early access games are a "scam".

There's a massive amount of Star Citizen players that love the game right?

The difference is that Star Citizen is literally either a scam or the most horribly managed project ever in the history of video games.


Realistically at this point it's a bit of both.

 

[Fare thee well]

Why complete something when you make far more money not completing it? This has happened with games many times before, but because of Star Citizen's scale and ability to invest in some proof of concepts, it is far more effective in its deception (initially intended or not). They mantra of many on RSI forums has always been you can buy one ship for less than 50 dollars and everything is freely earned in game, but this would mean a huge drop off in money for CIG. I've never seen anyone give up that kind of revenue willingly. Even if the game gets somewhat implemented I strongly feel they will use 'pay to skip grind tactics,' or 'pay to win' tactics, or 'pay to progress' tactics to maintain that wild sales revenue they have now.

Larger mass stars always become black holes when they undergo a supernova.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

The difference is that Star Citizen is literally either a scam or the most horribly managed project ever in the history of video games.


Realistically at this point it's a bit of both.

Scams usually don't work long term. Star Citizen is providing people with something they want. If it wasn't, the game would be dead.

 

[Moneal]

Scams usually don't work long term. Star Citizen is providing people with something they want. If it wasn't, the game would be dead.

Whales and sunk cost are keeping it going.

 

[Rivet]

Scams usually don't work long term. Star Citizen is providing people with something they want. If it wasn't, the game would be dead.

You're 100% right and yes, Star Citizen is definitely providing people something, it's providing dreams. Dreams about space. Dreams about the universe.

That's the trick and it's pure genius. It can last basically forever.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Scams usually don't work long term. Star Citizen is providing people with something they want. If it wasn't, the game would be dead.

Okay lol

 

[Dr. Claus]

Scams usually don't work long term. Star Citizen is providing people with something they want. If it wasn't, the game would be dead.

Whales keep it alive. The devs aren‘t providing squat. Stop defending a shitty company.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

I doubt that Creation Engine 2 can catch up with SQ42. Beyond scam jokes and drama, their tech was always groundbreaking.

TLOU2 just for technical comparison. No warring.

It just shows that targeting PC platform, devs could reach impressive af numbers, outracing industry standards.

Not to mention freaking time travel lmao, they had SSD planet traversal mechanics working ingame when next-gen marketing of how SSD would change game design, was not even started yet.

I think TLOU2 is a great contrast because even with that polygon and joint disparity, I could actually play it, over 18 months ago, on 2013 hardware.

 

[Epic Sax CEO]

TLOU2 just for technical comparison. No warring.

It just shows that targeting PC platform, devs could reach impressive af numbers, outracing industry standards.

Bloat.
More is not synonymous with more well made.

 

[Utherellus]

Bloat.
More is not synonymous with more well made.

I answered person's question about Starfield technical maturity compared to SQ42.

It can't be denied that Cloud Imperium created one of the most advanced tech in the industry that has no match.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Whales keep it alive. The devs aren‘t providing squat. Stop defending a shitty company.

There's a lot of developers making games out there that aren't providing squat.

They all die on the vine. Players move on.

Star Citizen seems like a game NeoGAF types love to hate because it checks all the wrong boxes for them. It's the anti God of War. So with that being said, it's really hard to take peoples opinion seriously here if they don't provide a super compelling argument.

Btw, I just watched a 10 minute beginners tutorial and it looks like the most ambitious game ever made. I can see its appeal.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

I answered person's question about Starfield technical maturity compared to SQ42.

It can't be denied that Cloud Imperium created one of the most advanced tech in the industry that has no match.

To what end? You can't play numbers. I feel like this game is the "why don't you make the entire plane out of the black box materials? Then it would be indestructible!!" come to life.

Cool, it'll never fly.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Scams usually don't work long term. Star Citizen is providing people with something they want. If it wasn't, the game would be dead.

Scams work for as long as they can keep people fooled. Your very post is ironically evidence that they are still going strong.

Also what you're arguing is like arguing that a Ponzi scheme is offering people real value (i.e. hopes and dreams) and thus its perpetrators shouldn't be criticised for scamming them.

There's no tangible value in selling people a dream that you never actually intend to realize. That's all Star Citizen is. They're selling people the dream of this amazing humongous game with all this freedom and player agency, without ever actually delivering on that promise. And no... farting out playable demos isn't delivering on the game they are actually promising to the poor schmucks who fall for their BS.

 

[Utherellus]

To what end? You can't play numbers. I feel like this game is the "why don't you make the entire plane out of the black box materials? Then it would be indestructible!!" come to life.

Cool, it'll never fly.

except it already flies with strong and steady community lol.

it's ultimate space sim most of us have ever dreamed of.
With fidelity, ambition, scale, attention to details and sandbox possibilities, no game has ever offered.

Reality is that backers are having crazy fun.

But NeoGaf told me it's nonexistent scam.

Just don't visit or post in Star Citizen threads then. For real, why are you even here lmao.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Scams work for as long as they can keep people fooled. Your very post is ironically evidence that they are still going strong.

Also what you're arguing is like arguing that a Ponzi scheme is offering people real value (i.e. hopes and dreams) and thus its perpetrators shouldn't be criticised for scamming them.

There's no meaningful value in selling people a dream that you never actually intend to realize. That's all Star Citizen is. They're selling people the dream of this amazing humongous game with all this freedom and player agency, without ever actually delivering on that promise. And no... farting out playable demos isn't delivering on the game they are actually promising to the poor schmucks who fall for their BS.

There's a reason why snake oil salesmen travel from town to town. Because they don't want to be around when the townsfolk realize they've been sold super expensive aloe vera.

NeoGAF has very specific feelings about what a game is. When a project breeds success that doesn't adhere to that narrow vision, it's often labeled a scam.

Take for example Horizon Forbidden West (a NeoGAF type game). It's taken 5 years of development. It hasn't been playable to anyone.

Star Citizen is probably 100x more ambitious than Horizon Forbidden West, but it's multiplayer focused, it has been playable, and we're only on year 8 of development.

I honestly don't see the problem.

More ambitious projects should take longer.

 

[Dr. Claus]

There's a lot of developers making games out there that aren't providing squat.

They all die on the vine. Players move on.

Star Citizen seems like a game NeoGAF types love to hate because it checks all the wrong boxes for them. It's the anti God of War. So with that being said, it's really hard to take peoples opinion seriously here if they don't provide a super compelling argument.

Btw, I just watched a 10 minute beginners tutorial and it looks like the most ambitious game ever made. I can see its appeal.

If Star Citizen was a real, finished game then it would be my dream title. I grew up with Wing Commander, I want a high profile, amazing space game. And I got it. Its called Elite Dangerous 2.

Stop defending a shitty company providing a scam.

 

[Bragr]

There's a reason why snake oil salesmen travel from town to town. Because they don't want to be around when the townsfolk realize they've been sold super expensive aloe vera.

NeoGAF has very specific feelings about what a game is. When a project breeds success that doesn't adhere to that narrow vision, it's often labeled a scam.

Take for example Horizon Forbidden West (a NeoGAF type game). It's taken 5 years of development. It hasn't been playable to anyone.

Star Citizen is probably 100x more ambitious than Horizon Forbidden West, but it's multiplayer focused, it has been playable, and we're only on year 8 of development.

I honestly don't see the problem.

More ambitious projects should take longer.

Horizon is not funded by the players. It's not comparable.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Horizon is not funded by the players. It's not comparable.

I don't care who it's funded by. Star Citizen is the most ambitious game ever made. It's not the type of game that gets finished in 3, 4, 5 years. Give it time.

 

[Bragr]

I don't care who it's funded by. Star Citizen is the most ambitious game ever made. It's not the type of game that gets finished in 3, 4, 5 years. Give it time.

Let's just hope they nail it in 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20-ish years.

 

[lastmessiah]

If Star Citizen was a real, finished game then it would be my dream title. I grew up with Wing Commander, I want a high profile, amazing space game. And I got it. Its called Elite Dangerous 2.

Stop defending a shitty company providing a scam.

What is the scam? They are upfront that the game is a perpetual work-in-progress. And that's what I want. I don't want them to "finish" it, whatever that means. I want them to keep making it better. Your complaints make no sense.

 

[Bragr]

I doubt that Creation Engine 2 can catch up with SQ42. Beyond scam jokes and drama, their tech was always groundbreaking.

TLOU2 just for technical comparison. No warring.

It just shows that targeting PC platform, devs could reach impressive af numbers, outracing industry standards.

Not to mention freaking time travel lmao, they had SSD planet traversal mechanics working ingame when next-gen marketing of how SSD would change game design, was not even started yet.

Weeeell, let's wait and see how it's animated in and out of gameplay first, polygon pushing means nothing. The trailer from some years ago had some shameful facial animations, far below the triple-A industry standard.

 

[Dr. Claus]

What is the scam? They are upfront that the game is a perpetual work-in-progress. And that's what I want. I don't want them to "finish" it, whatever that means. I want them to keep making it better. Your complaints make no sense.

Found one of the folks with sunk cost fallacy.

If the game was playable, like an MMORPG such as WoW/FFXIV with continued updates I could understand. If the game was not constantly receiving player money for „promises“ and instead did what most games do by showcasing demos, I could understand. However it isn‘t. Its *barely* a tech demo at this point, 8 years into development with the most bare bones of „gameplay“. It continues to rake in money from whales, preying on the mentally ill and making vague promises of what won‘t ever actually exist.

My complaints make no sense? Are you delusional?

 

[Orpheum]

i have 2-3 friends that will find every excuse
(and revisionism for when dev began too i see )
the hype is still there for them at least

Same here. It's a joke at this point but whatever makes them happy^^

 

[Halo is Back]

It's funny to me how everyone thinks they are so smart for "calling out" Star Citizen as a scam. "It will never be finished rarrrarararar!"

The conceit of this project is that it is trying to do something no other developer is.

If Chris was building a project that could create a positive impact on the Earth then I would agree with you. Chris is building a Space MMO that doesn't know when to prioritize assets to make a more functioning game. It's the equivalent of someone building the world's biggest cruise ship the size of a small country with all the amenities you could want in the world without having someone on the design team telling the boss they need to scale back thier expectations to meet a finished product.

Gamers are already familiar with the concept of a "live service" type of game where development never really ends but at least there is more of a solid base to build on with a clear foundation in mind.

 

[STARSBarry]

Scams usually don't work long term. Star Citizen is providing people with something they want. If it wasn't, the game would be dead.

I am sorry.... WHAT?!









Do people honestly not know about how long scams can last?

Wondering if one day we will see Starcitizen in a video like this, will be intresting.

 

[Ribi]

Whales keep it alive. The devs aren‘t providing squat. Stop defending a shitty company.

Not whales but my 35$ are. Maybe you should idk play the game or marry one of the devs and ask them to stop working on the scam while they bring home a paycheck paying for your beanbag chair

 

[Dr. Claus]

Not whales but my 35$ are. Maybe you should idk play the game or marry one of the devs and ask them to stop working on the scam while they bring home a paycheck paying for your beanbag chair

You keep telling yourself that. Maybe some day you will actually believe it.

 

[Buki1]

It's gonna be 10 years anniversary this year and still no release date.

 

[20cent]

Star Citizen fans sound exactly like crypto bros.

They are not scams as long as you believe in them.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

I've felt for a while that Starfield dropping will make a lot of people who believed in this game no longer believe. Not saying Starfield is trying to do exactly the things that this game is, but I suspect Starfield will do a better job of scratching the itch people were hoping this game would scratch.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Star Citizen fans sound exactly like crypto bros.

They are not scams as long as you believe in them.

"I don't like the thing they like so it's a scam."

 

[20cent]

"I don't like the thing they like so it's a scam."

"I've put my money in it so it's not a scam because I'm smart"

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

"I've put my money in it so it's not a scam because I'm smart"

"Attack the people who disagree with me!"

The Internet

Roll credits

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

The difference is that Star Citizen is literally either a scam or the most horribly managed project ever in the history of video games.


Realistically at this point it's a bit of both.

I would say that this game is the typical case of the manager never being happy with anything, always having new crazy ideas, and the project never finishes. There's so many out there. I wouldn't call it a scam, but I can see why people would think that.

 

[Inviusx]

The tech debt and spaghetti code will prevent this game from ever being what it was sold as. You can tell from watching recent gameplay videos that the entire simulation always looks like its a hair away from breaking at any moment. Their duct tape patches will only get them so far.

 

[Honey Bunny]

There's a reason why snake oil salesmen travel from town to town. Because they don't want to be around when the townsfolk realize they've been sold super expensive aloe vera.

NeoGAF has very specific feelings about what a game is. When a project breeds success that doesn't adhere to that narrow vision, it's often labeled a scam.

Take for example Horizon Forbidden West (a NeoGAF type game). It's taken 5 years of development. It hasn't been playable to anyone.

Star Citizen is probably 100x more ambitious than Horizon Forbidden West, but it's multiplayer focused, it has been playable, and we're only on year 8 of development.

I honestly don't see the problem.

More ambitious projects should take longer.

Slight correction, its barely 20 percent finished, we are 'only' nearing a decade of development and the original release date was November 2014.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

There's a reason why snake oil salesmen travel from town to town. Because they don't want to be around when the townsfolk realize they've been sold super expensive aloe vera.

NeoGAF has very specific feelings about what a game is. When a project breeds success that doesn't adhere to that narrow vision, it's often labeled a scam.

Take for example Horizon Forbidden West (a NeoGAF type game). It's taken 5 years of development. It hasn't been playable to anyone.

Star Citizen is probably 100x more ambitious than Horizon Forbidden West, but it's multiplayer focused, it has been playable, and we're only on year 8 of development.

I honestly don't see the problem.

More ambitious projects should take longer.

?????????

Bro

Broooo, wtf

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Slight correction, its barely 20 percent finished, we are 'only' nearing a decade of development and the original release date was November 2014.

Release dates are now meaningless in the era of early access. Fun is fun.

I suppose I look at it this way. I've spent zero dollars on Starfield. I've spent zero dollars on Star Citizen. I've spent zero dollars on the next Elder Scrolls game.

Getting all bent out of shape because development is taking longer than people want seems crazy to me. I'm just glad someone is swinging for the fences...

 

[TheDreadBaron]

Pardon my ignorant view, but I’ve seen people playing and enjoying this game on YouTube. People trying to push the idea that everyone who enjoyed their time with the game has some kind of kickstarter stockholm syndrome should chill out. I understand that the project has crazy ambition and scope creep but they’re actually continually putting out updates and content. To hear some people here speak it sounds like they think nothing of the game ever materialized because the campaign still hasn’t been finished. Somehow I doubt they’re going to change their opinion on the game if the campaign ever does release.

I agree it’s a strange scammy feeling business model that does sell crazy expensive digital goods to whales, but it’s not like the content that’s there totally sucks. You can fly space ships and shit, that’s cool, if you don’t like what’s there don’t buy it. The only way it could be considered a scam is if you backed it based on the original promises and now feel cheated because its grown far beyond the initial pitch. Not much of a scam if you ask me

 

[Dr. Claus]

Pardon my ignorant view, but I’ve seen people playing and enjoying this game on YouTube. People trying to push the idea that everyone who enjoyed their time with the game has some kind of kickstarter stockholm syndrome should chill out. I understand that the project has crazy ambition and scope creep but they’re actually continually putting out updates and content. To hear some people here speak it sounds like they think nothing of the game ever materialized because the campaign still hasn’t been finished. Somehow I doubt they’re going to change their opinion on the game if the campaign ever does release.

I agree it’s a strange scammy feeling business model that does sell crazy expensive digital goods to whales, but it’s not like the content that’s there totally sucks. You can fly space ships and shit, that’s cool, if you don’t like what’s there don’t buy it. The only way it could be considered a scam is if you backed it based on the original promises and now feel cheated because its grown far beyond the initial pitch. Not much of a scam if you ask me

There are also people who enjoy getting repeatedly kicked in the balls. Doesn't make them sane.

 

[luffie]

There's a reason why snake oil salesmen travel from town to town. Because they don't want to be around when the townsfolk realize they've been sold super expensive aloe vera.

NeoGAF has very specific feelings about what a game is. When a project breeds success that doesn't adhere to that narrow vision, it's often labeled a scam.

Take for example Horizon Forbidden West (a NeoGAF type game). It's taken 5 years of development. It hasn't been playable to anyone.

Star Citizen is probably 100x more ambitious than Horizon Forbidden West, but it's multiplayer focused, it has been playable, and we're only on year 8 of development.

I honestly don't see the problem.

More ambitious projects should take longer.

Lmao, Dark Souls 1, Bloodborne , 2, 3, Sekiro, Elden Ring is already out before Star Citizen even have anything close to a "half" finished game. They should really take another decade.

What is the scam? They are upfront that the game is a perpetual work-in-progress. And that's what I want. I don't want them to "finish" it, whatever that means. I want them to keep making it better. Your complaints make no sense.

THIS. This is the perfect mentality a Star Citizen customer should have. Chris Roberts would be proud lmaoooooo.

 

[V4skunk]

The difference is that Star Citizen is literally either a scam or the most horribly managed project ever in the history of video games.


Realistically at this point it's a bit of both.

It's just over ambitious.
It also pushed tech like properly using ssd to stream assets which enabled the devs to make the scale through the roof.
Think No Man's Sky planet hopping but x100 in scale.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Lmao, Dark Souls 1, Bloodborne , 2, 3, Sekiro, Elden Ring is already out before Star Citizen even have anything close to a "half" finished game.

That doesn't make any sense.

RL Stein wrote one Goosebumps book every month for a stretch. JRR Tolkien spent 12 years writing Lord of the Rings.

 

[thelurkinghorror]

So, i tried the game again yesterday evening after a six months hiatus and they did a lot of improvement.

Like it or not, the game still growing and improving.

I played three hours straight without ctd and others issues, did three simple mission and talk with some others players at the bar in Lorville.

Btw, the game cost me 40 Euro and before the great server reset I manage to bought and kit an Avenger titan starting with a crappy Aurora.

Star Citizen still a working progress after 8 years, but there’s nothing like this game out there

 

[jigglet]

This game is like the Dark Souls of Kickstarters.

 

[DustQueen]

It's funny to me how everyone thinks they are so smart for "calling out" Star Citizen as a scam. "It will never be finished rarrrarararar!"

The conceit of this project is that it is trying to do something no other developer is. If you want to be a part of that, and all the growing pains and false starts that come with it, then you have the option. Nobody is making you donate money to the devs. I'm just glad that someone is trying to evolve games beyond the current rut they are in.

 

[Trimesh]

What is the scam? They are upfront that the game is a perpetual work-in-progress. And that's what I want. I don't want them to "finish" it, whatever that means. I want them to keep making it better. Your complaints make no sense.

They certainly weren't saying that when I originally backed the game - that was back in 2012 and they were claiming a release date of end 2014. OK, I always figured it was going to slip because even at the outset the scope seemed rather ambitious, but I certainly didn't predict that they would not only miss it but not even have a firm completion date nearly a decade later. In fact, I don't think it's an intentional scam - just an example of cosmically bad project management and infinite amounts of can-kicking - but I do think it's least as likely to collapse under it's own weight and unfulfilled promises as it is to ever hit that V1.0 milestone.

 

[TVexperto]

their subreddit is fucking insane. they attack you for wondering why there hasn't been any new squadron 42 gameplay in 4 years and just harass you and insult you for no reason. it is so fucking toxic there.