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Asian-GAF: We're all the same, like Stormtroopers |OT| |AT|

BRICK TOAST: most semilegit boba shops have them. Just ask. TBH if the store has boba and sells popcorn chicken I will usually ask if they have brick toast.
And yeah, black sesame ice cream is AMAZING. Yogurtland used to have black sesame froyo and that was good, too.




:). Well, we could get Roscoe's earlier and get ramen later AFTER the musical? Swing by Little Tokyo :D

Ah, sweet. There's a ton of boba places by work so I'll see if any have it now that I know it exists. Thanks :D
 
So I guess we're all the ~ cool ~ Asians here. The ones that are too model minority to be bothered by silly ethnocentric jokes

👍

I love red bean sesame balls when they are still so warm. Specially in the winters. Omnomnom~
 

SRG01

Member
So I guess we're all the ~ cool ~ Asians here. The ones that are too model minority to be bothered by silly ethnocentric jokes

👍

I love red bean sesame balls when they are still so warm. Specially in the winters. Omnomnom~

I'm jealous of your cold weather winter and your sesame balls. It's super hot over here and the air is all smokey from wildfires.
 
lol

I <3 you. I think that I'm still bothered, but what really can we do about it :x. If I can't do anything about it, might as well not let it bother me, right? & I mean, truly there's nothing we can do about it here. GAF is still a private forum modded with subjectivity.

:<<<<


Whatchu taking about. You're probably one of the two that picked up that good fight, you and Zoe. I was self-jabbing at myself for my innate desire to be the personification on the Asian model minority. I know I have to fight it but it's hard. It feels sort of... Uh... good, to feel like... "Hey I'm not the one causing icky friction!"

" I'm not like all of those unpleasant minorities that keep pulling up uncomfortable truths."

" them ethnocentric jokes don't bother me cuz I'm above all that and I don't take them seriously cuz I got the luxury to do so. I'm so cool I'm ice~"




Trust me, bunbuns... These are all the voices inside my head and I'm glad for voices like yours and Zoe's ... Gives me some strength not to be so eager to be the all-the-time pleasant ones

Love you, bunbuns&#10084;
 
Kbbq

keWRGhW.jpg
 

SRG01

Member
So is it customary for Korean places to give out so many appetizers? Last time I went, they gave us four or five dishes of stuff to eat...
 
Back from vacation in Vancouver. Everything was overall great despite the blazing forest fires currently ravaging Northern BC. While it's great that .80 USD= 1CAD, I got the impression that shit is still more expensive in Canada.

Two food related things

I discovered Aburi Sushi- Yum

I learned that not all Pho is the same while at the same time offending my gf for not knowing this..There's a Northern style vs a Southern style and their soups are vastly different...oops

Vancouver Chinese food is not as I remembered. I remembered it being a step above anything in the US (of course that was in the 90's). But I feel like California has caught up and maybe even surpassed.

Had quite a bit of dim sum there and none of it compared to Koi Palace in the Bay Area which I had the week before. Granted my N in the grand scheme of things small but it's also plausible that things have changed now that the gates have been opened for mainland Chinese to move around.
 

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
Hahaha, thanks! To be perfectly honest, I was kind of worried about how I could fit in the date plus the midnight showing of Ant-Man since I had bought tickets way in advance, lol.

That really shows you where my priorities are these days :p

They are placed appropriately - as it were. :D

lol

I <3 you. I think that I'm still bothered, but what really can we do about it :x. If I can't do anything about it, might as well not let it bother me, right? & I mean, truly there's nothing we can do about it here. GAF is still a private forum modded with subjectivity.

:<<<<

Pretty much this. Ultimately I've learned that the best way to fight prejudice and racism is to just be a good example. Sure, it's unfair, and sure, I shouldn't have to - but the effectiveness of doing that is just too high not to. :D I found myself arguing on the internet for the benefit of my own self-righteousness; not because I actually wanted to make a change. Once I realized that; it doesn't particularly feel very noble to argue on the internet any more.

As for the Ellen Pao thing - on a strictly personal level, her firing someone because they had leukemia is pretty much a "screw you" point for me (having had leukemia myself) - so the amount of sympathy I have is little. I do think there's an unspoken and interesting conversation about the difference (if any) between receiving hate because of race, and the type of hate you receive due to race. Sometimes I wonder whether the two end up being conflated. Is Pao receiving more hate because she is asian (and a woman), or is she receiving pretty much the same amount of hate, but it's just framed in a misogynist / racist way?

Aside: I have noticed the dude who actually ended up firing Victoria hasn't been fired...yet. But CEOs tend to take all the credit (and get all the pay) / get all the blame for a company as a whole - so I'm still waiting to see how it all shakes out.

IE; online, if a white man gets told to "fuck off and die", a woman gets told to "get back in the kitchen", and an asian gets told to "go back to China" (or insert something suitably racist) - is it different? If not, why not, and if so, why so?

FWIW - I don't know, tbh - I tend to be a heavy "intent" person (someone's intentions are more important to me than their outcome, byproduct of being a "process" person I suppose); so to me personally it doesn't matter. But I'm super curious as to how others see it - I definitely did not grow up in a typical minority experience, and I know that other things that have happened in my life have shaped my responses to things I can't directly control. Do different asian groups perceive this differently? Do women perceive this versus men? Dang it my brain is going down the rabbit hole wheeeeeeeeeee.....
 
Hahaha, thanks! To be perfectly honest, I was kind of worried about how I could fit in the date plus the midnight showing of Ant-Man since I had bought tickets way in advance, lol.

That really shows you where my priorities are these days :p
Hank Pym would agree with your priorities.

I can't wait to see the movie myself.

FWIW - I don't know, tbh - I tend to be a heavy "intent" person (someone's intentions are more important to me than their outcome, byproduct of being a "process" person I suppose); so to me personally it doesn't matter. But I'm super curious as to how others see it - I definitely did not grow up in a typical minority experience, and I know that other things that have happened in my life have shaped my responses to things I can't directly control. Do different asian groups perceive this differently? Do women perceive this versus men? Dang it my brain is going down the rabbit hole wheeeeeeeeeee.....
I totally agree with this. The way I see it is this: if Ellen Pao were a man and/or not Asian, would people still express similar derision toward her actions? I think so; it's only the specific insults they fling toward her that would be different.
 

StMeph

Member
I totally agree with this. The way I see it is this: if Ellen Pao were a man and/or not Asian, would people still express similar derision toward her actions? I think so; it's only the specific insults they fling toward her that would be different.

Doesn't that make a difference though? I don't disagree that a different CEO would likely have generated a strong backlash with the same series of missteps, but the substance of the response matters, too.

If on one hand you can complain about/protest on the issues themselves, and on the other you resort to cheap race-related personal attacks, there's a substantive difference totally related to Pao being Asian, female, or both.
 
Doesn't that make a difference though? I don't disagree that a different CEO would likely have generated a strong backlash with the same series of missteps, but the substance of the response matters, too.

If on one hand you can complain about/protest on the issues themselves, and on the other you resort to cheap race-related personal attacks, there's a substantive difference totally related to Pao being Asian, female, or both.
I think it matters, but I don't think every battle is worth fighting. In this particular instance, the people insulting Pao are doing so because of her actions. Coming in from the side and trying to pull things in a different direction isn't going to help or convince anyone of anything.
 

StMeph

Member
I think it matters, but I don't think every battle is worth fighting. In this particular instance, the people insulting Pao are doing so because of her actions. Coming in from the side and trying to pull things in a different direction isn't going to help or convince anyone of anything.

The problem with this is that these are the only kinds of engagements Asians face. The model minority perception and success of large swathes of Asian immigrant professionals have meant that there's not much overt racism. This is the kind that manifests.

What other theaters would you say are appropriate?
 
Asian-GAF, I get married in less than a week.

Holy crap.
Sorry, I didn't see this earlier, until Dead Prince just pointed it out.

Congratulations! Are you going on your honeymoon right after? Where are you going?

The problem with this is that these are the only kinds of engagements Asians face. The model minority perception and success of large swathes of Asian immigrant professionals have meant that there's not much overt racism. This is the kind that manifests.

What other theaters would you say are appropriate?
I don't know. I certainly don't think I have all--or even most--of the answers here. I do know, though, that often arguing directly against someone's beliefs is counterproductive; they just dig their heels in and come back harder, and then you both waste time. I think changing perceptions is going to be a gradual process, and one legitimate way of going about it is to carry yourself in such a way, where your critics see you and then question their own assessment, so while I don't think the "model minority" approach is ideal, per se, I do think it's a way of making headway against veiled racism.
 

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
The problem with this is that these are the only kinds of engagements Asians face. The model minority perception and success of large swathes of Asian immigrant professionals have meant that there's not much overt racism. This is the kind that manifests.

What other theaters would you say are appropriate?

I was gonna say, the other issue of racism we get is generally being ignored as being hurt by racism. Saw a FB post where someone posted how racist Seattle is, and how it's only gotten less diverse because the African American population has been decreasing percentage wise since the mid 1900s to now. Not a single person brought up that Asians also count as "diversity" too. (Poster was a black woman)
 

StMeph

Member
I don't know. I certainly don't think I have all--or even most--of the answers here. I do know, though, that often arguing directly against someone's beliefs is counterproductive; they just dig their heels in and come back harder, and then you both waste time. I think changing perceptions is going to be a gradual process, and one legitimate way of going about it is to carry yourself in such a way, where your critics see you and then question their own assessment, so while I don't think the "model minority" approach is ideal, per se, I do think it's a way of making headway against veiled racism.

I don't disagree that fighting people individually generally doesn't do much, and the most deeply-ingrained beliefs are basically impossible to reverse through pure reason, but I also have a low opinion of people.

In this case, my personal thoughts regarding what is really lacking is Asian-American political clout, whether on a municipal-, county-, state-, or nation-wide level. This is effected through voter turnout, campaign contributions, and PACs. Fringe groups are able to hijack political conversations with extremely low actual demographic percentages; numbers that Asians could muster if there was the political will. Of course, there isn't, so I partly lay the blame on our own collective complacency.

Hispanics are growing so much that they can no longer be ignored. There has always been a black caucus. There has to be some access to the levers of power.
 
why no one congratulate you on this soon to be special event. did you invite us? oh. okay. nevermind then.

You didn't get the invite? Must've gotten lost in the mail. Thanks anyhow.

Sorry, I didn't see this earlier, until Dead Prince just pointed it out.

Congratulations! Are you going on your honeymoon right after? Where are you going?

Thanks, it just hit me today. I'm leaving work today and not returning until I'm married and I just had a holy shit moment. The honeymoon won't be for a few months but we're planning on doing "Asia" (she's Chinese, I'm Korean). At least Shanghai and likely Seoul, but other than that we're still trying to figure out if we want to do Vietnam, Cambodia, Japan, Thailand, etc.

We're doing a tea ceremony and a Paebaek with multiple costume changes. It's gonna be a whirlwind but we'll see how it goes.
 
Thanks, it just hit me today. I'm leaving work today and not returning until I'm married and I just had a holy shit moment. The honeymoon won't be for a few months but we're planning on doing "Asia" (she's Chinese, I'm Korean). At least Shanghai and likely Seoul, but other than that we're still trying to figure out if we want to do Vietnam, Cambodia, Japan, Thailand, etc.

We're doing a tea ceremony and a Paebaek with multiple costume changes. It's gonna be a whirlwind but we'll see how it goes.
Awesome! If I may make a recommendation, if you have time, maybe check out the Maldives. Place is beautiful and rarely sees American visitors.

When I got married, it didn't really hit me until the actual day. Like, I went through with all the prep and did all the motions and rehearsals and setup, but it didn't feel like anything until I was standing in front of the aisle.

I don't disagree that fighting people individually generally doesn't do much, and the most deeply-ingrained beliefs are basically impossible to reverse through pure reason, but I also have a low opinion of people.

In this case, my personal thoughts regarding what is really lacking is Asian-American political clout, whether on a municipal-, county-, state-, or nation-wide level. This is effected through voter turnout, campaign contributions, and PACs. Fringe groups are able to hijack political conversations with extremely low actual demographic percentages; numbers that Asians could muster if there was the political will. Of course, there isn't, so I partly lay the blame on our own collective complacency.

Hispanics are growing so much that they can no longer be ignored. There has always been a black caucus. There has to be some access to the levers of power.
I agree. It does not help at all that currently one of the most known Asian-American politicians, Leland Yee, is known because he got busted for weapons trafficking.

I think in order for us to go this route, though, we have to slowly move away from focusing on STEM and getting into liberal arts and political science majors. It's going to take some time, and we also have to show others that we are capable of excelling in those majors, that our educational values are not solely about math and rote memorization. It will take time.
 
Regarding the engaging conversation about model minority / racism / political clout-- yeah, we do need some Asian politicians. There IS actually an "Asian American" 'caucus' in the House, if you even want to call it that, but they have no power.

& the problem with majoring in anything that's not STEM is that it's simply NOT profitable. The way my dad explained is that, in STEM fields, you can succeed despite what everyone else thinks of you. You just shut up, do well at your job, and you'll be fine. Your boss may not LIKE you or think highly of you, but it doesn't matter because you'll have a job. (They'll have a tough time finding a white person willing to work as well and as hard and as cheaply as you.)

If you go into poli sci and liberal arts... with the exception of law, where you have a useful skill and you can open your own firm... the way my dad said it is, if they have one qualified white person and one qualified Asian person, they'll hire the white person.

I don't know if it's true, but I'm also not sure what it's like being an Asian American wanting to go into politics or liberal arts. There aren't very many jobs that make much money in the liberal arts field, and politics usually requires a lot of prior connections and family money. Most of the families with money in the US tend to be recent immigrants, if I am correct... a lot of the immigrants are poor, and left their countries for a better life.

Maybe in a few more generations, with more wealthy, high achieving Asian Americans that have been in this generation for a bit, there will be chances at politics. But for now? I don't know.
Yeah. Hence why it will take time. STEM is the safe financial bet right now, as your dad says, but politics resides at the top end of the liberal arts. In order for Asians, as a group, to get there, we will have to broaden our focus and accept that non-STEM majors are viable, as well as recognize politics as an achievable--albeit difficult to achieve--goal, but I think it's mostly too late for our generation. Maybe our kids will have a shot at it, but potentially swallowing the loss of financial independence for a low rate of success would be a hard sell.

It's really the same as with entertainment, which we talked about a while ago. The same movement will have to happen for us to achieve success there, too.

The alternative, of course, is to ride the "model minority" train so hard that we get lumped in with whites, but even this will take time. We're kind of straddling the line, where we are seen as outsiders by both whites and other minority groups right now.
 

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
Regarding the engaging conversation about model minority / racism / political clout-- yeah, we do need some Asian politicians. There IS actually an "Asian American" 'caucus' in the House, if you even want to call it that, but they have no power.

& the problem with majoring in anything that's not STEM is that it's simply NOT profitable. The way my dad explained is that, in STEM fields, you can succeed despite what everyone else thinks of you. You just shut up, do well at your job, and you'll be fine. Your boss may not LIKE you or think highly of you, but it doesn't matter because you'll have a job. (They'll have a tough time finding a white person willing to work as well and as hard and as cheaply as you.)

If you go into poli sci and liberal arts... with the exception of law, where you have a useful skill and you can open your own firm... the way my dad said it is, if they have one qualified white person and one qualified Asian person, they'll hire the white person.

I don't know if it's true, but I'm also not sure what it's like being an Asian American wanting to go into politics or liberal arts. There aren't very many jobs that make much money in the liberal arts field, and politics usually requires a lot of prior connections and family money. Most of the families with money in the US tend to be recent immigrants, if I am correct... a lot of the immigrants are poor, and left their countries for a better life.

Maybe in a few more generations, with more wealthy, high achieving Asian Americans that have been in this generation for a bit, there will be chances at politics. But for now? I don't know.

Bingo. Relatively speaking - Asians are pushed / gravitate towards (relatively speaking) meritocratic jobs that pay well without having to be the best of the best at it that can be done with purely hard work. Which makes sense - because you're minimizing risk relatively speaking.

Being an Asian in a liberal arts field...you'd better be financially successful, otherwise the amount of shit you get from other Asians is unbelievable. I think you're right though - I suspect as wealth starts to accumulate from generation to generation - the option to go towards a less lucrative (generally) field will start to open up. Also - it doesn't help that three of the more prominent Asian politicians are Leland Yee (aka ban violent video games and now going to jail for corruption), Bobby Jindal (crazy governor of Louisiana), and Nikki Haley (crazy governor of SC). Why are my fellow Indian-Americans turning so crazy when they become governor? :(

Actually; I've been told that generally Indian-Americans tend to be politically and culturally conservative. This is crazy because my parents are pretty liberal (especially from where I grew up). That true for other folks' experiences w/ Indian-Americans?

Also, congrats on the getting married soon bit. :) It will be awesome. :D
 
@Cybit, Prime:

I'll reply to y'all later when I get home. For now, I have to go.. but check out the thread I just posted in the OT: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1079177

Sort of brushes up on the issues. I thought it was a good read.

She ignores South Asians, but to be honest I think some of it still applies (the model minority stereotype).
Thanks for posting that. I'm really curious how the general OT population takes to that type of discussion, since this thread is relatively sheltered.
 

Ashes

Banned
& the problem with majoring in anything that's not STEM is that it's simply NOT profitable. The way my dad explained is that, in STEM fields, you can succeed despite what everyone else thinks of you. You just shut up, do well at your job, and you'll be fine. Your boss may not LIKE you or think highly of you, but it doesn't matter because you'll have a job. (They'll have a tough time finding a white person willing to work as well and as hard and as cheaply as you.)

Our working lives take up the majority of our time. It's a shame we've decided to make it all about profit.
 
Is this the first thread like that where a bunch of us jumped in, like we're on some sort of team? I usually ignore (or just read but not post in) that kind of thread, and it's amusing this time how all seem to be on the same side of things.
 
Hello Guys, New here I literally just figure out my Neogaf account was authorized a month ago because I checked my old email since I wanted to chip in to the Native American thread.
Anyways I'm excited that this college semester I will be taking a Elementary Chinese course I have already begun practicing by taking the Beginners Mandarin course from Coursera. This will be the first time in a while I will be learning a language in a classroom setting ; I manage to teach myself Japanese to around n3 by myself but I hope this will be more fun as I will get to actual practice talking with people.
 
*edit: And I want to mention that I think one unspoken "fear" by many Asian Americans is that, by complaining/protesting, we'll be lumped into the same category as black Americans. The "bad" minority, the one that "always pulling the race card."

You guys know what I'm talking about. There's a sense among white Americans, and I'm sure other colors of Americans, that certain minorities are always "pulling the race card." I don't want to debate about whether it's true or not, but I do think that perception is there. I also do think that many Asian Americans are afraid of becoming like that, and afraid that there will be even more/greater types of discrimination if that happens.

It's something I've thought about a lot, and to be honest I don't know if I have an answer on how to fight perceptions like that. That's a whole other can of worms.
As I was saying earlier today, we're in the awkward, lose-lose (but almost winning) position where we're seen as basically white by other minorities but also as not-white by whites. Both sides seem to agree that our struggles aren't real, and both sides say we are "overrepresented" in academia and employment, albeit for different reasons. Moving in either direction will cause one side to hate us more, and that's a dangerous spot.

In terms of advocating for other minority groups, though, it's not hard to see how their struggles are very real and in many cases much worse than ours, and it's the right thing to do. There's also the thought that we can address some of the issues our groups share and then rise up together.

Hello Guys, New here I literally just figure out my Neogaf account was authorized a month ago because I checked my old email since I wanted to chip in to the Native American thread.
Anyways I'm excited that this college semester I will be taking a Elementary Chinese course I have already begun practicing by taking the Beginners Mandarin course from Coursera. This will be the first time in a while I will be learning a language in a classroom setting ; I manage to teach myself Japanese to around n3 by myself but I hope this will be more fun as I will get to actual practice talking with people.
Hi! Glad to have you here. My Chinese is terrible, but I can speak and listen fluently, at least.
 

Sober

Member
Just move here to Canada instead. The problems are still there but much less prominent than I feel like it seems to be made in the US.
 

jasonng

Member
Hello Guys, New here I literally just figure out my Neogaf account was authorized a month ago because I checked my old email since I wanted to chip in to the Native American thread.
Anyways I'm excited that this college semester I will be taking a Elementary Chinese course I have already begun practicing by taking the Beginners Mandarin course from Coursera. This will be the first time in a while I will be learning a language in a classroom setting ; I manage to teach myself Japanese to around n3 by myself but I hope this will be more fun as I will get to actual practice talking with people.

Good luck. Learning Chinese is not an easy task. Only advice I can give you is to put the work in and practice practice practice.
 
Good luck. Learning Chinese is not an easy task. Only advice I can give you is to put the work in and practice practice practice.

Thanks, I consider myself fortunate that Im a person who actually enjoys learning languages. The class is really small as well only I think 5 other people in it which should be good.
 

Sober

Member
Man some of those posts in the "model minority" thread are just ... they don't even deserve the benefit of the doubt.
 

Estellex

Member
Ugh, that thread about the girl that beat up the boy.

Some of those responses. "weird ass customs," "weird country," etc.

I edited my response to someone. But, man, as an Asian American I think it's SUPER weird how many nonAsian Americans don't seem to respect their elders at all. That's weird, and also incredibly distasteful to me :x.

What do you mean non-Asian Americans don't seem to respect their elders at all? I mean what constitute as respect to an elder in your views?

I think in some East-Asian culture, bowing is considered a gesture to address elders. I don't think Americans are eager to do those sort of things.
 
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