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[Infinite]

But it has nothing to do with European imperialism.

I'm sorry it was pretty early when I wrote that sentence so I may have not expressed myself too well but I did try to express that colorism in Japan has nothing to do with white supremacy. Actually reading what I wrote again I didn't say what you thought I did so that misunderstanding is on you.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Is it though? I mean there's racism, but that's a different ballpark.

You have it in central America.

You have it in the black community in the US

The middle east

It's pretty much everywhere.

 

[Violet_0]

I think you're overselling the "class system" bit.

Yes, lighter skin is valued.... it's a beauty standard. Just as being thin is, attractive, no deformities, wearing nice clothes. Many of those are the same in Western countries.

People who don't meet beauty standards in all countries face social stigma.

You might as well say a person's weight is a class system here in Vancouver. And yes I've been to Japan and Korea and I have intimate knowledge of their ideas about skin colour. It's the usual beauty prejudice... it's just that beauty is more related to light skin than in other regions.

I'm pretty sure it's a class system thing in Thailand. The lighter-skinned Chinese descendants are the elites, the darker-skinned ethnic Thai do all the lowly jobs like construction work, taxi drivers or selling street food. I though It was a pretty noticeable divide

 

[chogidogs]

I blame the media. I mean you hardly ever see any dark skinned celebrities unless you're a character actor or a comedian. Everybody is fair-skinned on TV. Of course everybody watching would want to be like them. They don't know any better.

 

[wenis]

Yes, but someone not having a tan in the West doesn't mean they are considered in a different class of people.

I assume they come from Florida... So it might as well.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

I'm pretty sure it's a class system thing in Thailand. The lighter-skinned Chinese descendants are the elites, the darker-skinned ethnic Thai do all the lowly jobs like construction work, taxi drivers or selling street food. I though It was a pretty noticeable divide

Its actually the same in China. While many chinese girls like to have white skin, it also might be because "low"/"poor" chinese usually have darker skin.

If you are in Beijing, you can often see the difference in skin tone between the poor migrant workers, who are out in the sun "24/7" and the normal people working in an office.

 

[Whide]

Its actually the same in China. While many chinese girls like to have white skin, it also might be because "low"/"poor" chinese usually have darker skin. If you are in Beijing, you can often see the difference in skin tone between the poor migrant workers, who are out in the sun "24/7" and the normal people working in an office.

Tr-triggered.

 

[Zoe]

The issue in the OP, about white skin being a standard of beauty and possible classism has absolutey nothing to do with racism toward foreign people of different ethnicities.

This. There's a huge difference between wanting to be capital-W White and wanting white (pale) skin.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Tr-triggered.

I meant middle-class people. Office workers.

 

[Ishan]

err being pale was considered attractive in the west too. I read somewhere this whole tan thing took over after it became also a status symbol that you had time to vacation and tan showing wealth etc etc.

 

[ThreePiMatt]

Nothing wrong with staying out the sun but whitening products, yeah it's odd and too far. Quite dangerous as well apparently with some products.

I did laugh when a friend said to me the other day, ever noticed they are never any middle aged Asian women, just young or really old. Looking after your skin. It's obviously not true but kinda is when I think about it.

I think this is what you're referring to.

 

[WrenchNinja]

My mom used to make my sister use this trash and sometimes made me use it too. the obsession with lighter skin is fucked. You can see it in the south Indian movie industry, you've got all these dark male leading actors paired with lighter skinned female leads.

The target consumer profile for Fair & Lovely is the 18 and above age group, and the bulk of the users are in the age 21-35 category,[3] though there is evidence that girls as young as 12-14 also use the cream.[4] Marketing for the product in all countries implies whiter skin equates to beauty and self-confidence.[5] Hindustan Unilever Limited research claims that “90 percent of Indian women want to use whiteners because it is aspirational, like losing weight. A fair skin is like education, regarded as a social and economic step up.

 

[Peterthumpa]

Bit off topic but since we're talking about trendy asian behaviors, why the hell a lot of asians use those air pollution masks in places with no pollution, at all?

 

[Ratrat]

Bit off topic but since we're talking about trendy asian behaviors, why the hell a lot of asians use those air pollution masks in places with no pollution, at all?

Pollen/Disease
Cold
Humidity
Disguise

 

[Sunster]

In the US Dove ads say, "love the skin you're in"

In the Philippines Dove sells skin whitening bars.

 

[studyguy]

Walking around Ktown has a bunch of obvious skin lightening ads for stuff and older women wearing those weird ass sun visors that block their face or otherwise 90% covered up on bright days with umbrellas to boot.

 

[Dazzler]

You know summer has arrived in Vancouver when those bizarre welder-like sun visors start appearing everywhere

They look ridiculous

 

[Tabris]

I'm pretty sure it's a class system thing in Thailand. The lighter-skinned Chinese descendants are the elites, the darker-skinned ethnic Thai do all the lowly jobs like construction work, taxi drivers or selling street food. I though It was a pretty noticeable divide

Yeah I spent half my time in Thailand so that's maybe why it's noticeable to me.

That's why I kept asking what countries people had visited that disagreed with me or thought I was overreacting. Not sure how you can not think it's a class system in Thailand.

Like seriously, I would be at a cafe next to a financial office building and the only time a dark skinned person entered they were dressed like custodial staff.

 

[Kite]

White people want to be tanned/darker, dark people want to be lighter. In ye olden times in China it was considered attractive to be pale and chubby since it meant you were wealthy/not a starving peasant. Now that it is easy to get fat everyone wants to be skinny and pale. No one is happy with themselves, grass is always greener on the other side.

edit:

Thailand's prime minister is kinda dark-skinned, must be low class~

 

[Tabris]

Well first, Thailand is still controlled by military. That's not an elected official.

Being in the military is not considered a "high society class" position.

Second, again, if you're actually there on the streets of Bangkok, I'm not sure how you can't see a class system in action.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Reminds me of the scene from Fresh Off the Boat where they're at the swimming pool, and Eddie's Taiwanese grandma and her old lady friends are talking shit about the white women tanning and "decreasing their value." XD

Bit off topic but since we're talking about trendy asian behaviors, why the hell a lot of asians use those air pollution masks in places with no pollution, at all?

Those aren't for pollution, they're to stop the spreading of germs. It's considered poor taste to not wear one when you're sick. I kinda wish we adopted that over here.

 

[GorillaJu]

do these skin whitening cream actually help whiten your skin permanently or is it purely cosmetics?

I don't know about everywhere, but in Japan "whitening" isn't skin bleaching, it's mostly about softening the skin's appearance and reducing sun spots and age spots. I've heard about actual skin bleaching in places like India but I'm not sure how much of it is just "those wacky foreigners!" and I don't think it'd be fair to pass judgment when I'm responding flippantly to people doing just that in this thread.

In the US Dove ads say, "love the skin you're in"

In the Philippines Dove sells skin whitening bars.

In every country, businesses will do their best to find a potentially lucrative market and advertise to them. Let's be honest, Dove isn't doing that because it's the "right" thing, they're doing it because they researched and found a lot of the people buying their products are fat.

I'm sorry it was pretty early when I wrote that sentence so I may have not expressed myself too well but I did try to express that colorism in Japan has nothing to do with white supremacy. Actually reading what I wrote again I didn't say what you thought I did so that misunderstanding is on you.

Fair enough, upon rereading it I do see the point you were making but it could still be read to mean what I originally thought.

 

[Lexxism]

Not really surprising. Some of my classmates were making fun of my tan skin and labelling it as "black" from where I came from.

 

[AbortedWalrusFetus]

While I'm not ok with any discrimination that may come with the practice, since I massively prefer girls with pale skin I am ok with this trend.

Tanning is gross.

 

[Lucumo]

I am a pale guy. I'm 1 step above vampire lol.

I'm a half-step above vampire, so I'm fine with this.

 

[blue_phazon]

My mom used to make my sister use this trash and sometimes made me use it too. the obsession with lighter skin is fucked. You can see it in the south Indian movie industry, you've got all these dark male leading actors paired with lighter skinned female leads.

My mom uses this stuff. Dunno if it has any negative effects, but it does seem to work

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Also I'm not sure if this is a thing in every Asian country, but it was in Japan, Hong Kong, China, and Thailand. I wasn't looking for it in Singapore so not sure there.

We're practically on top of the equator, everyone's getting a tan one way or another =_=

This is doubly so for all guys, since we all have to enter military service.

My personal experience though was that guys are expected to be tan- it means you go out and do real work, 'have a life' as oppose to being a shut-in all day.

As for girls... I personally prefer light skinned *shrugged*

 

[Sunster]

I don't know about everywhere, but in Japan "whitening" isn't skin bleaching, it's mostly about softening the skin's appearance and reducing sun spots and age spots. I've heard about actual skin bleaching in places like India but I'm not sure how much of it is just "those wacky foreigners!" and I don't think it'd be fair to pass judgment when I'm responding flippantly to people doing just that in this thread.



In every country, businesses will do their best to find a potentially lucrative market and advertise to them. Let's be honest, Dove isn't doing that because it's the "right" thing, they're doing it because they researched and found a lot of the people buying their products are fat.



Fair enough, upon rereading it I do see the point you were making but it could still be read to mean what I originally thought.

yea but they don't get a pass for being business savvy while they reinforce colorism. hopefully they'll slip up and people will stop buying there stuff. wishful thinking though.

 

[Voost Kain]

So I've been in Asia for the last 4 months. A bunch of different countries, currently Tokyo.

One of the things that has been shocking to me is how much importance skin colour has here. Especially for women, but also for men. Almost every cosmetic store (or even convenience store with a small makeup area) is full of skin whitening products. There's so many umbrellas being used during a sunny day which I never saw before to protect skin. I met a girl that does modelling and she basically said that the first consideration for models is what your skin colour is. The next will be your physical attributes. It was a different perspective for me.

But unfortunately it doesn't seem to just be a beauty thing either. People's impression there can be based on your skin colour.

It's almost like a class system based on your skin, because according to what I was told by some people if your skin is darker it means your family may have come from a farming or low socioeconomic background, so you are considered a lower class then a someone with a whiter skin.

And it does seem to match with what you normally see. Especially in countries like Thailand where the people in formal clothing going into office buildings tended to all be whiter skinned while people in the lower socio-economic jobs tended to be darker skinned. So maybe it is a class system, which is so silly as how can you control your skin genetics.

I am a pale guy. I'm 1 step above vampire lol. I hate wasting time tanning when I can be working or socializing and I'm also worried about skin cancer, so try to use sunblock whenever I'm at the beach. I got constant compliments on my skin colour more then anything else here, it's a weird thing to be complimented on, especially coming from the West where a good tan tends to be more sought after.

What are your thoughts on this?

Also I'm not sure if this is a thing in every Asian country, but it was in Japan, Hong Kong, China, and Thailand. I wasn't looking for it in Singapore so not sure there.

The only dark skin that is not treated lowly my several in japan are black people coming to visit.

It's also why a lot of South Koreans are looked down upon over there.

 

[The Lamp]

cultural differences i suppose where in the west a tan is viewed as more healthy, or that you've got the leisure time to go pursue one.

That being said, having a basic skin care routine helps in the long run.

The irony is that tanning in any capacity is not really healthy. You are literally blasting your cells with damaging radiation and cheering its panic mode response in emergency producing more melanin.

Sun damage, besides causing skin cancer, is the number one thing other than genetics to make your skin age faster and look unhealthy over time.

That "black don't crack" saying about beautiful black skin probably comes from the fact that darker people born with more melanin get to protect their beautiful skin against the sun constantly naturally.

 

[RibMan]

Yep. There is a very noticeable desire to have lighter skin. The next time you're in the Dubai airport (DXB), check out the skincare products in any of the shops. It's unbelievably sad.

 

[Ratrat]

The only dark skin that is not treated lowly my several in japan are black people coming to visit.

It's also why a lot of South Koreans are looked down upon over there.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Kreed]

That "black don't crack" saying about beautiful black skin probably comes from the fact that darker people born with more melanin get to protect their beautiful skin against the sun constantly naturally.

Correct. Great example of human evolution and the sun at work.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

White supremacy is a plague that envelops the globe.

 

[Voost Kain]

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Except I do and have actually been in the country and seen it myself.

A bunch of people commenting on a group of south koreans and the police just kind of wobbling around the corner looking at them.

I was with a friend of mine when we visited, he had dreads, which people commented on at cute or cool as we walked around. One guy helped him with some change to get come noodles.

Then I saw in Hokaido light skinned japanese people just avoiding eye contact outside a restaurant toward darker skinned ones, and it really be came obvious when one of the women coming out of a restaurant addressed a light skin women in a group of darker skinned women.

 

[AlexMogil]

Tabris, you live in Vancouver, surely you've been in Richmond and seen the Asian women with the huge billed hats and sunglasses, right?

 

[Boss Mog]

In Japan having light skin for women was a beauty standard centuries before Matthew Perry sailed into Edo, so just don't go thinking that they're trying to imitate caucasians.

 

[Ratrat]

Except I do and have actually been in the country and seen it myself.

A bunch of people commenting on a group of south koreans and the police just kind of wobbling around the corner looking at them.

I was with a friend of mine when we visited, he had dreads, which people commented on at cute or cool as we walked around. One guy helped him with some change to get come noodles.

Then I saw in Hokaido light skinned japanese people just avoiding eye contact outside a restaurant toward darker skinned ones, and it really be came obvious when one of the women coming out of a restaurant addressed a light skin women in a group of darker skinned women.

Thanks for proving my point even further....

Anyway, South Koreans are not thought of as being dark. Hell, Japans early standard of small eyes and pale skin is obviously their desire to emulate Korea unlike the 'barbaric' Ainu or Okinawans who often had darker skin and large eyes. The vast majority of Japanese and Koreans could not tell each other apart.

Please stop with this expert nonsense.

 

[TickleMeElbow]

I don't know about other countries, but being lighter in Japan is just a beauty standard that goes back hundreds of years. On top of that, a lot of women are deathly afraid of getting sun spots and wrinkles. Guys don't care as much. It doesn't really have much to do with class anymore. It's not like people will discriminate against you if you happen to get a little tan in the summer.

 

[Peru]

Except I do and have actually been in the country and seen it myself.

A bunch of people commenting on a group of south koreans and the police just kind of wobbling around the corner looking at them.

I was with a friend of mine when we visited, he had dreads, which people commented on at cute or cool as we walked around. One guy helped him with some change to get come noodles.

Then I saw in Hokaido light skinned japanese people just avoiding eye contact outside a restaurant toward darker skinned ones, and it really be came obvious when one of the women coming out of a restaurant addressed a light skin women in a group of darker skinned women.

THe absolute opposite is true. SK is known as the skin care capital of Asia and Korean women's fair skin is seen as the ideal.

 

[MikeyB]

My fiancée emigrated from Hong Kong. I've spent a lot of time with her and her friends and this skin color thing sort of exists, well at least some of her friends buy into it. It is more tied to nationality though, which is related to skin colour. Thais are seen as shady and crazy, while filipinos have a stereotype of being both lazy and violent.

Being raised on Trudeau the elder's multiculturalism, Reading Rainbow, and hippy parenting makes it totally shocking. I am still trying to figure out how to voice my views.

TMBG' song "Racist Friend" often comes to mind.

 

[Boss Mog]

I don't know about other countries, but being lighter in Japan is just a beauty standard that goes back hundreds of years. On top of that, a lot of women are deathly afraid of getting sun spots and wrinkles. Guys don't care as much. It doesn't really have much to do with class anymore. It's not like people will discriminate against you if you happen to get a little tan in the summer.

Exactly. Same for Korea, even if most female Kpop stars are light skinned there are some that have chosen to be tan like SNSD'd Yuri or SISTAR's Hyolyn and they're still very popular.

 

[Piggus]

This is a thing in Indonesia and it's frustrating. My gf is always talking about wanting to be whiter.

 

[gutter_trash]

it's interesting how it changed for white people.

tanned and dark skin whites were considered to be peasants and laborers in the 19th Century.

then with the obsession of looking fit and sporty has revered it. Tanned and toned white people are considered healthy and fit while pasty and pale white people are considered unhealthy living in caves afraid of doing activities.

 

[oti]

This sounds so weird to me. "Getting black" as we call tanning in Greece is national sport.

 

[McLovin]

So weird, I think darker skinned Asians are sexy AF

 

[Jeronimo Jones]

Since moving to the city, I have definitely noticed people (usually older asian women) wearing huge hats, umbrellas, and long sleeves to avoid the sun, even outside of spring or summer.

I thought some of it was for protection from burns but have also heard that in some asian cultures skin tone is important.

So, as a brown-skinned black person, I have wondered what they think of those of us who are darker. We must be monsters...

 

[Voost Kain]

THe absolute opposite is true. SK is known as the skin care capital of Asia and Korean women's fair skin is seen as the ideal.

I was talking about IN japan

 

[Voost Kain]

Thanks for proving my point even further....

Anyway, South Koreans are not thought of as being dark. Hell, Japans early standard of small eyes and pale skin is obviously their desire to emulate Korea unlike the 'barbaric' Ainu or Okinawans who often had darker skin and large eyes. The vast majority of Japanese and Koreans could not tell each other apart.

Please stop with this expert nonsense.

Good thing you rpovided evii- oh wait just another child.

You are right with your south korean info, but there are dark south koreans and those are the ones immediately identified and complained about by japanese people as being the ones that cause crime etc.

IN anycase, you didn't actually read my point.

 

[illuminated1]

White supremacy is a plague that envelops the globe.

This.
It is so obvious, yet most will dance around this reality.