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[Lionel Mandrake]

For those of you just joining us...

Our story began with the seemingly simple premise of our OP, fifasnipe2224, being upset after a disagreement with his girlfriend over how to introduce their eight-month old daughter to religion. The girlfriend, being raised in the Greek Orthodox Church, desired for their child to be baptized. The atheistic OP decried her decision as forcing her religion on their child and indoctrinating her before she could choose for herself. After some general arguing, and attempts to compromise from the girlfriend, eventually she takes the child to an "introduction" program at the church, which welcomes to new mother and her child back to the congregation.

The OP was most furious that his girlfriend would do this without his consent and raised quite a stir over this, viewing it as a betrayal. The argument soon extended to the parents of both of them, with everyone on all sides seemingly saying that the OP was not doing the right thing. The girlfriend takes the child with her, which the OP's parents seemed to believe was the right course of action. fifasnipe2224 then left his parents' house, later referring to the incident as "dad kicks me out of the house because I am an atheist."

Of course, GAF, as always, was eager to help, but while there were a few claiming that the OP did have the right to feel passionate about the role of religion in his child's upbringing, most seemed to believe that the way he was going about it was selfish and immature, and that he was valuing his own pride over his girlfriend and daughter.

Throughout the thread fifasnipe2224 would respond. Early on he ignored those who chastised him, as not reading his (admittedly lengthy) OP, and not being able to see their point. Much ado was made about why this issue wasn't settled a long time ago in the relationship, and other flaws in the OP's argument. All the while, fifasnipe2224 continued replying to complaints, explaining why he was "right" and recounting the various "victories" he had won in their previous arguments over the matter.

But it wasn't until post #394 that things escalated to ridiculous levels.

UPDATE
I just left from my GF house. Things went better then expected. her mom said hello to me in a sad but meaningful way. i went straight to my little girls room and held herfor about for about 20 minutes with my GF just watching me. Its not an easy moment for me since yesterday morning was the last time I saw her AND last night was the first night i was without her for the night. My GF started by saying how she was lonely being in front of church alone while all other children were being presented with both parents. I made it clear that my daughter should not have been up their in the first place. maybe later on.... maybe not at all, but definitely not with out my approval. She then went on to say my mom misses me, she loves me and she wanted me home. i have no real issue with my mom at this point. My problem is with my GF and my father.... and partially with my GF's family. I then simply asked her "it does not matter the location or the reason... but do you think its ok for you or me to take our daughter to a place that the other parent made it clear not to take her? Is ok for you to take Ashley to a place I said not too? OR for me to take her to a place you did not want her to be at??" She said NO, its not ok.

She was asking me to stay the night but I told her i cant see my self bing with her, at least no time soon.

She then asked what i wanted, I said I wanted SEVERAL apologies, I got most of the ones I asked for but not the major one. Sorry for taking our daughter to the 40 day introduction without your approval. She said she would never apologias. So I place Ashley in her basent, took a picture, went to go grab a few more blankets and left.

Her mom stopped me to say a few nice words especially stating how she never got involded or stated any opinions UNLESS MY GF ASKED FOR THEM.

I know received a txt from my GF saying she is sorry for taking our daughter to the church with out my approval. i told her a txt apology wont cut it. And here wer my demands (1) a 2 page paper 1st page on why its not ok t take our daughter to a place the other parent does not approve and the 2nd page on the pros to Asheley choosing her own religion at the correct age and (2) a promises that we will have a mitior real honest conversation about if, when, and how Asheley will be baptized and how and if religion will play a roll in her life.

I know I am cutting it close on this one but i know what is best formy girl and I know how to threw to my GF.

I am at a libery right now guys and it closes in 5 mins. i rushed this so sorry for poortyping and grammer. i will update when i can.

At this point, it was thrown into question whether of not the OP was simply having fun with GAF, as most users were not able to seriously see someone treat their significant other in such a ridiculous and demeaning manner.

Still, some users were genuinely eager to help the situation.

OP listen I know you have your values and living with this chick is not your idea of paradise. Hell most days my wife and I would be happier if we weren't with each other, she would probably say the same some days. But we have a 9 month old daughter and being here for her has become #1. My past time, wants, and needs go on hold while I feed, burp, play and make her laugh. If I could only do those things a few days a week and every other weekend I'd be crazy sad. You have to be there for your daughter and yes endure some shit. I see where your coming from and feel like I can relate on many levels but no one hands you a well working relationship. You need to sit down and talk to each other. Listen to her and work at it for your daughter.

edit: shit now I'm behind this is trolling? for real?

But it remains to be seen just how much worse it will become...

Will Ashley get a baptism? Will the OP man up? Why is the OP so against religion if he clearly enjoys being a martyr? Let's find out...

 

[demosthenes]

Bravo.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I've deliberately avoided this thread until the Lionel Mandrake "tl;dr" top of the page post.

Now if only you could sum up that entire game journalists/mountain dew/polygon/whatever the fuck thread that's on Gaming Side

 

[Laughing Banana]

bro you're not even reading all the posts?

why did you come here for help.

Not really. I feel strongly that what he wants is not advice; he wants conformation. Seeing that GAF is dominantly Atheist-filled forum, he is just looking for members of GAF to agreeing with him to make him feel better.

That is why on the first few pages he flipped over when Atheist GAF did not respond to him the way he expected them to respond.

 

[Lionel Mandrake]

I've deliberately avoided this thread until the Lionel Mandrake "tl;dr" top of the page post.

Now if only you could sum up that entire game journalists/mountain dew/polygon/whatever the fuck thread that's on Gaming Side

I'd love to, but I have no idea what the hell happened there.

 

[demosthenes]

I'd love to, but I have no idea what the hell happened there.

All hope is lost.

Not really. I feel strongly that what he wants is not advice; he wants conformation. Seeing that GAF is dominantly Atheist-filled forum, he is just looking for members of GAF to agreeing with him to make him feel better.

That is why on the first few pages he flipped over when Atheist GAF did not respond to him the way he expected them to respond.

Agreed.

 

[Dude Abides]

This is what happens when you live in sin.

Homework assignments.

 

[1cmanny1]

Sounds fake.

 

[Quick]

Heroic Crown of Sonnets Essays.

 

[Maedhros]

Ugh... OP is immature as fuck. You don't even deserve being helped after this update.

 

[Laughing Banana]

This is literally the first time in my 28 years of life that I see someone actually demands his partner to make an essay for apologizing.

Literally, my first time.

 

[Keyouta]

Grow the fuck up, OP.

 

[Angry Puppy]

good shit mandrake. i decided to see why this thread was still going and clicked last page, greeted with amazing summary.

op made the thread to have people agree with him instead of looking for advice.

 

[freenudemacusers]

Bwahahahah @ summary. Jesus fuck OP

 

[Grakl]

Excellent summary as always, Lionel.

 

[Cat Party]

So is this another stupid troll thread where someone thinks he's funny because he took advantage of GAF's desire to help out its members, or is OP really this sad and pathetic? Either way, we all lose, but at least if he's trolling there's not a poor little baby girl suffering for it.

 

[echoshifting]

So is this another stupid troll thread where someone thinks he's funny because he took advantage of GAF's desire to help out its members, or is OP really this sad and pathetic? Either way, we all lose, but at least if he's trolling there's not a poor little baby girl suffering for it.

We never lose when Lionel does a "for those of you just joining us." That is always a win.

 

[bonesmccoy]

I'm torn on whether this is not just a massive troll playing the silly 'atheists are selfish sociopaths' act or if it's real.

Nonetheless, I feel obliged to point this out:

*Side note…. Why 8 months?! She knows VERY LITTLE of her own religion. According to her religion Jesus Christ was baptized at 30 years old. C’mon son…. C’mon.

Jesus was presented for purification in the Temple as infant, aka, he was 'baptised' per Ancient Judaism. This event took place 40 days after his birth.

 

[Steelrain]

This sounds 100% like go ly dow,


This dude can't even spell library.

 

[mrkgoo]

Not really. I feel strongly that what he wants is not advice; he wants conformation. Seeing that GAF is dominantly Atheist-filled forum, he is just looking for members of GAF to agreeing with him to make him feel better.

That is why on the first few pages he flipped over when Atheist GAF did not respond to him the way he expected them to respond.

I think you mean confirmation.....wait....maybe you did mean conformation.

 

[televator]

I can understand a personal apology...but an essay? WTF dude? You might be the atheist in this story, but your rationale is starting to tip the scale in an unexpected direction.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

AtheistGAF reporting in. I read most of the OP and the summary on top of the page.

To OP: You're incredibly selfish and immature.

I didn't know my dad was an atheist as well until I was 18 and realized that I wasn't a person of faith and I didn't feel like keeping up appearances anymore. My dad had the foresight to realize that it would be better for his wife and children if he just sucked it up and sat through Mass every Sunday. He had nothing to lose but an hour of his week and he knew his kids would be smart enough to figure out what was best for them spiritually when the time came for each of them.

Believing in fairy tales isn't inherently harmful, either. This is a poor battle to pick when all is said and done.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I'll admit, I was kind of hoping to make it into the Mandrake summary with my ridiculous grandstanding on page 4.

LOL, a paper. What do you hope to gain from this? Seriously.

A paper? You have serious control issues

Dude, you assigned her essays? Dude.

You were doing good...until the paper. Wow.

I'm going to be perfectly honest here - if all relationship disputes were resolved by both parties presenting their case in a formal, structured essay, that would be awesome.

BTW - Dice, Log4Girlz, ThoseDeafMutes, Angry Fork, Kinitari - it is like a veil has been lifted from my face and I have seen you posting for the first time. You guys are awesome. Where have you been all this time? I have to frequent the Atheist/Theist threads more often.

I am a prolific poster (10.86 posts per day according to my profile page) on both gaming side and OT, but GAF is huge and it's easy to miss people. You're more likely to find me in science related threads than you are a religion based one, although I do enjoy philosophy and sometimes engage in such discussions.

 

[wsoxfan1214]

I'd lol if she looked at both religious viewpoints and ended up simply reconciling them like many people, including scientists, do. What would you do then? Rage at her for coming to her own decision?

He'll simply ask her to write a 10 page explanation of why she did so. C'mon, man, he's being reasonable.

 

[luxarific]

Wow. Just, wow. Run, GF, run. Far, far away from this immature control freak.

Spoiler

How is this not a troll. I cannot believe that someone can really be this stupid and have a child. He's 23 fucking years old.

 

[kiunchbb]

I know I am cutting it close on this one but i know what is best formy girl and I know how to threw to my GF.

I am at a libery right now guys and it closes in 5 mins. i rushed this so sorry for poortyping and grammer. i will update when i can.

If you can pull this off, best of luck to you.

I do think you overreacted a bit, and flat out taking advantage of how much your wife want to stay with you.

 

[Prax]

Wow.

I sympathize with the OP's struggles.
And sometimes you do have to put your foot down.
But possibly losing a relationship with your child is terrible, and not being diplomatic and not making concessions will only make it worse. Find a better, more strategic point to draw the line.

I get what you're trying to do with the essay thing and trying to get hard decisions made and finalized, but most people don't work that way..
And this will only make you look just as controlling and manipulative. You guys probably need some relationship counselling to get through this.

Were I you, I'd let the baptizing thing happen for symbolic reasons (it's like a birthday celebration) and let everyone know that. Same with holidays. Whatever. Participate in quaint cultural rituals. Take it from a anthropological perspective. My daughter's just being a participant.
I would probably under no circumstances let my daughter go to religious indoctrination classes/Sunday School type stuff though. If there were some kind of multicultural classes that focuses on world religions and cultures (and they celebrated different religious holidays for fun), that would be okay to me.
Pick and choose your battles more wisely.

Best of luck..

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Man, that update. Then the revelation he wasn't even reading replies. Irritating that he has the gall to skim over replies when he made such a big deal earlier of people not reading that ridiculously long winded op. Fits in perfectly with the way he's handled this issue though. Like someone else said earlier, I get the impression this thread was about getting a pat on the back rather than advice. Either that or it's a troll.

 

[Dice]

I can't believe you had and continue to have the audacity to act like GAF is any sort of factor at all while you go on acting like this toward your own family, directly against the vast majority of posters advice. Fuck you for wasting everyone's time and honest good will in trying to help just so you can completely disregard it and put on the belligerent dickhead show. It's bad enough that you so greatly demean your girlfriend with this ridiculous assignment, but then you go on and present the story of it on a public forum as a means of patting yourself on the back. It's disgusting.

Have you done any research at all on the nature of religious faith? While you so adamantly try to prevent your daughter from being indoctrinated, how can you have no compassion for those still subject to it? Do you realize you have a permanent lifetime connection to the people you're treating this way? Do you ever think of others before yourself? It has been six years since I interacted with someone so inconsiderate and self-absorbed. Fuck.

 

[Castor Krieg]

Please read some if not all of this post
GF wants to baptize our baby, I say let her pick once she is of age, her church wants my GF to bring our baby to a 40 day introduction, I say not unless we come to a conclusion, she refuses to co-operate, says very hurtful and out of line comments, my parents get involve, things get worse, dad kicks me out of the house because I am an atheist, GF sets a date for the 40 introduction without my approve and invited members of my family behind my back, I cannot see myself happy with my GF anymore, I move out, I am homeless, and I miss my baby.

Sorry to say that, but you should've thought this over when you decided to get into a relationship with a religious person as an atheist. First thing you should've done is determine if her religion is for show, or she is serious about it.

I am an atheist, so is my gf. Life is glorious.

 

[Xzeon]

I can't believe you had and continue to have the audacity to act like GAF is any sort of factor at all while you go on acting like this toward your own family, directly against the vast majority of posters advice. Fuck you for wasting everyone's time and honest good will in trying to help just so you can completely disregard it and put on the belligerent dickhead show. It's bad enough that you so greatly demean your girlfriend with this ridiculous assignment, but then you go on and present the story of it on a public forum as a means of patting yourself on the back. It's disgusting.

Have you done any research at all on the nature of religious faith? While you so adamantly try to prevent your daughter from being indoctrinated, how can you have no compassion for those still subject to it? Do you realize you have a permanent lifetime connection to the people you're treating this way? Do you ever think of others before yourself? It has been six years since I interacted with someone so inconsiderate and self-absorbed. Fuck.

oh snaps.

op is getting decimated in here.

sadly i think the only thing hes getting from this is 'wow Gaf sure is pissed at the stuff i said. even though i still want to go through with my plan, i guess i shouldnt cuz she might get mad like Gaf did.'

 

[Laughing Banana]

This is not just a backfire.

This is backstabbedroadkilledstompedpunchedkickedblowntosmithereens.

...and it is glorious.

 

[Ashes]

On a separate point, it is interesting to note that human culture seems to intercede even those without belief systems, what with atheists suggesting other atheists not mate with non-atheists.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

To any young non-believers who might be reading this thread:

Do not have kids with someone if you don't share or at least respect one another's values and/or belief systems.

Also, don't have kids in your early 20s if you can help it.

Sincerely,

-Atramental (who is currently taking some Advil for cringing so hard)

he cant see him self bing with her

 

[SquiddyCracker]

On a separate point, it is interesting to note that human culture seems to intercede even those without belief systems, what with atheists suggesting other atheists not mate with non-atheists.

It's really just a matter of practicality, to avoid situations such as these.
If you don't share someone's religious beliefs, you better be willing to accept them having a big influence in your life or bust.

 

[Ashes]

It's really just a matter of practicality, to avoid situations such as these.
If you don't share someone's religious beliefs, you better be willing to accept them having a big influence in your life or bust.

At the dawn of a new society, only to find that it's the same as some other ones.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Is the OP for real? Put your daughter and family before your goddamn ego. Start being a man and stop being a righteous teenager. Unless you are still a righteous teenager.

 

[jaxword]

On a separate point, it is interesting to note that human culture seems to intercede even those without belief systems, what with atheists suggesting other atheists not mate with non-atheists.

There's no unified group called "atheists."

 

[Ashes]

There's no unified group called "atheists."

And?

 

[jaxword]

And?

It's good that you realize that now.

 

[Ashes]

It's good that you realize that now.

I'm not sure what point you were making or what point you thought I was making.

Unless you think there is a group out that that isn't fractured, or where all individuals agree on everything.

I'm done trying to argue with people. These days I'm trying to understand their point of view even if I am completely in the contradictory position. So explain your self. What do you think I mean? and what part of my position are you criticising?

 

[jaxword]

I'm not sure what point you were making or what point you thought I was making.

Unless you think there is a group out that that isn't fractured, or where all individuals agree on everything.

I'm done trying to argue with people. These days I'm trying to understand their point of view even if I am completely in the contradictory position. So explain your self. What do you think I mean? and what part of my position are you criticising?

If you agree is no unified group called atheists, then it is impossible, as you said, for "atheists suggesting other atheists not mate with non-atheists."

That suggests you DO see "atheists" as a group, using your own definitions, so as to allow this sort of categorizing. How can one be a "non" member if there IS no membership to be held? You can't have it both ways and separate a group via your own definitions yet also act as if you're not doing that.

 

[Ashes]

If you agree is no unified group called atheists, then it is impossible, as you said, for "atheists suggesting other atheists not mate with non-atheists."

That suggests you DO see "atheists" as a group, using your own definitions, so as to allow this sort of categorizing. How can one be a "non" member if there IS no membership to be held? You can't have it both ways and separate a group via your own definitions yet also act as if you're not doing that.

So the statement:

There are athiests in this thread who are suggesting other athiests not mate with non-athiests


is untrue according to you.

right?

 

[jaxword]

So the statement:

There are athiests in this thread who are suggesting other athiests not mate with non-athiests


is untrue according to you.

right?

You said far more than that. Now you're lying and changing your words despite the evidence literally being 5 posts up:

On a separate point, it is interesting to note that human culture seems to intercede even those without belief systems, what with atheists suggesting other atheists not mate with non-atheists.

Your statement is a fallacy. There's no specific lack of "belief system" to be attributed to atheists because they can literally be anything. All that the word atheist means is a lack of belief in god. They can believe ANYTHING beyond that point, any morality, any choice, any judgment. They can literally mimic the Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. system (minus god) for culture.

Your statement is intellectually dishonest, because it attempts to create a fallible stereotype (they're just as bad!); a form of unified morality you could attribute to "the atheists" so you could make blanket statements. There is no unifying culture, morality, or organization with the atheist concept. Any attempts to create one, especially from someone trying to create false labels, are dishonest. That's why you needed to be called out.

 

[FACE]

OP, what's the structure your GF should use while writing that essay? Should she write an introduction to the apology?

 

[soepje]

LOL, a paper. What do you hope to gain from this? Seriously.

I´m guessing he will store it in his ''solid-proof-he-won-the-argument/he-was-right'' box, so he can wave it in her face in future times of need.

It must be really frusterating being around OP. I honestly feel bad for his gf, parents and family in law. It seems like they really have to swallow a lot of OP´s bs. That they are still trying, props to them, i don´t know if i could.

 

[Ashes]

You said far more than that. Now you're lying and changing your words despite the evidence literally being 5 posts up:




Your statement is a fallacy. There's no specific lack of "belief system" to be attributed to atheists because they can literally be anything. All that the word atheist means is a lack of belief in god. They can believe ANYTHING beyond that point, any morality, any choice, any judgment. They can literally mimic the Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. system (minus god) for culture.

Your statement is intellectually dishonest, because it attempts to create a fallible stereotype (they're just as bad!); a form of unified morality you could attribute to "the atheists" so you could make blanket statements. There is no unifying culture, morality, or organization with the atheist concept. Any attempts to create one, especially from someone trying to create false labels, are dishonest. That's why you needed to be called out.

I guess rationality is limited to one's own ability to reason well. Explains the op, and whatever you were trying to imply. I'm going to go ahead and give up. Enjoy your thread. I'm out.

 

[Sushigod7]

I'm in a Mandrake recap? Cross that off the bucket list it's a honor sir.

 

[Despera]

Good thing I decided to check the last page before reading the OP. Now I see no need for the latter.

Appreciate the recap, Mandrake.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

At the dawn of a new society, only to find that it's the same as some other ones.

Precisely.
It'd also be wise to discriminate on other personal beliefs if they'd result in serious conflicts.