You should have swallowed.
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Atheist GAF, I seek your help!
- Thread starter fifasnipe2224
- Start date
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You should have swallowed.
I've been having a similar debate over any possible baptisms with any future children with my fiance. I have the same attitude as the OP, but thankfully she isn't as entrenched as your girlfriend, so I don't foresee too many problems. OP just scared the shit out of me.
Jeez. Good luck man. You lost the battle, but you can still win the war. For the sake of your relationship, and your daughter, suck it up and grind her down for 8 months until she caves. You can guilt her all the way to the afterlife and back after this episode.
Jeez. Good luck man. You lost the battle, but you can still win the war. For the sake of your relationship, and your daughter, suck it up and grind her down for 8 months until she caves. You can guilt her all the way to the afterlife and back after this episode.
thehypocrite
Member
Op even though in the argument part you're right, you're wrong in the sense that you're arguing with your SO/family over such an insignificant act like a baptism. It seems you care more about your own pride as an atheist than your family. You shouldn't had argued in the first place.
I suggest you go back to your GF/family and ask forgiveness, cause honestly, you acted like an irrational person getting so hung up on something that you know 1st hand has no significance.
Edit: I also hope to never make the same mistake as you.
I suggest you go back to your GF/family and ask forgiveness, cause honestly, you acted like an irrational person getting so hung up on something that you know 1st hand has no significance.
Edit: I also hope to never make the same mistake as you.
Nameless
Member
Those focusing so hard on the baptism are missing part of the OP's point, I think. His beef with his daughter being baptized seems rooted in the idea that it's the first step in a process of indoctrination that he'd like to avoid. Not sure there would be an issue with his GF were her intentions to have a Christening and let that be the end of it.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
My ex-girlfriend was half Greek, half Spanish. Her family was Greek Orthodox. She was bisexual Atheist, who dated a girl before she was going out with me. Her grandmother found out both of these facts while driving her somewhere in the car and legitimately almost had an accident.
fifasnipe2224
Member
Thank you.
Oh and like I said, we do not live at my parents house...........we live at her parents house. We wer at mine since Hurricane Sandy wiped out our power.
I am heading home to see my daughter after work (about an hour) odds are the GF will want to talk... All in fave for me calling her a monster to her face??
In all honestly I see what I can to help my GF make the right decision for our daughter, even if it meets a few more nights of homelessness.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Pecking party out in full force.
Your girlfriend/family seem kind of dickish. Especially with the whole backstabbing thing. But I guess it's ok for her to do it because she is religious or something.
The only solution I can see is to concede the early game and farm up for mid-late game where you have a better chance of winning. This is assuming you go back and they allow you in again or something.
Also, it seems that 90% of the posters in this thread didn't read the OP if all they can complain about is the baptism.
Your girlfriend/family seem kind of dickish. Especially with the whole backstabbing thing. But I guess it's ok for her to do it because she is religious or something.
The only solution I can see is to concede the early game and farm up for mid-late game where you have a better chance of winning. This is assuming you go back and they allow you in again or something.
Also, it seems that 90% of the posters in this thread didn't read the OP if all they can complain about is the baptism.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
All joking aside, no. Your position is correct, but you MUST be diplomatic about this. You must seem completely reasonable and keep emotions 100% in check.
Why don't you try swallowing your pride and seeing if there's a relationship worth saving? I get the feeling you're trying to tell yourself you don't care for her anymore so that you don't have to humble yourself.
Just remember that it's not about you, nor your pride. Don't get yourself into a situation where you can be flat out excluded from your daughter's upbringing. Consider losing the battle for the sake of winning the war.
saltinekracka
Member
It probably would not be the end. OP seems to be happier that his kid not go to church (he won't have any control over this either way) than to keep his family together.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
FFS DO NOT ARGUE WITH HER.
You will not win the argument, you will not win a legal dispute.
Kiss her ass, literally and metaphorically, so that you can get in there and remain a father to your child - so that you can ensure that her mind isn't dulled down by religious indoctrination.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Calling her a monster would not be a good thing to do.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Bro... I read your long ass post.
Please consider my advice:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44003898&postcount=141
And words from experience:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44004608&postcount=165
I've been defending you pretty consistently in this thread - but please, don't be childish about this. You most likely wont be able to get exactly what you want. If it were me, I would want the exact same thing as you, so I feel you, I feel the frustration and I am trying to sympathise.
But if you want to see your child, if you want to be involved in her life, and if you want to actually give her that strong foundation - you need to approach this right.
Be honest about how you are feeling marginalized about raising your own child, and how you sincerely are trying to make a compromise by letting her get baptised, but was really hurt when she went behind your back and ended up causing a lot of drama between you and your parents.
But also make sure you let her know that you don't want to put your child through the hell of having her parents fight over her like this, and that you two REALLY need to make a compromise, because the alternative is going to mean that your daughter has to deal with parents that are always fighting, and trying their hardest to turn her against the other.
Ask her if she is really considering your position, tell her that you don't want to convert her, and you don't care if she's religious, but that you do want to have a say in how your child is raised.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Do you care more about keeping your family together or keeping your daughter atheist?
fifasnipe2224
Member
^good stuff and might be dead on. But honestly... after how she treated me and spoke to me.... I dont think its worth saving. I am leaving that ball on her court.
Not true. I do not want a closed minded religious hating child, then she will be exactly like her mother, except against religion. I would like her to go, but I would like her to see and smell the bullshit, not that I will be pointing it our directly.
You just ignored all the good advice people have been giving you in favor of being an asshole for the sake of a stupid ritual that your daughter won't remember. You have already made the decision and just want some anonymous Internet guy to agree with you.
Get your priorities fixed or you will be a fucking terrible father.
fifasnipe2224
Member
*facepalm* Its not about keeping her / forcing her to be atheist. its the exact opposite. Its about giving her the freedom of choice, before others attempt to brainwash her (exaggerated).
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Let's all take a step back for a second. Fifa, what are you currently intending to do when you see her next?
fifasnipe2224
Member
Ignored.... not at all.
And its not simply a ritual
My decision is 99% set, yes. But I have NO idea yet of how to approach it. I have yet to hear any good advice on baptism at 8 months > letter her pick later on. That being said I will do what I have to (be it I dont know what that is) to let my daughter decide.
I see you learned nothing from this thread.
saltinekracka
Member
You both had your defenses up and weren't treating each other with respect. Cool down and try again.
A baptism at 8 months is not going to affect her decision either way, but a militant father who acts like a child around her mother may.
The only possible way the second has any real chance of happening is if the family is kept together. Kids will almost always turn out with the belief system and language of the mother.
OP if I were in your position, I would concede these fronts, and make sure you stick together, so that when they start teaching her about Hell, damnation, and punishment, you'll be there to help put her mind at ease. No kid should be tricked into believing in blindly following authority or receiving eternal torture.
fifasnipe2224
Member
Lol thank you for that. 1st NOT call her a monster (thanks GAF!)
Seriously it was a joke.
I am NOT "meeting" up with my GF, I am simply stopping by home to see my girl. Who knows, I might not even get a chance to talk to her. If she forces the topic i know I am on thin ice and I will be careful, but NO, I still do not see a reason why I should let her decide my childs religion at 8 months (or at any age.)
SquiddyCracker
Banned
... and you'll have a better chance of giving her freedom of choice if you don't alienate your SO and her/your family.
Reconcile with her so that you remain close with your daughter, and while you play the happy husband who accept your wife's silly religion - you ensure that your daughter is taught about all other religions and train her critical thinking ability.
Consider what will happen if you continue to make this situation volatile - she WILL get full custody, and you will be lucky to see your daughter at all, let alone have your say in how she is raised.
Give her the baptism, your daughter isn't old enough to realise what her foot is yet so it doesn't really matter, but make diplomatic efforts to prevent her from going to "Greek School" if that's what you want, and really spend some time trying to get your wife and your family to respect you and your position.
They will never do that if you act like this.
Devolution
Member
Dude this doesn't help either.
fifasnipe2224
Member
excuse me?? When did I treat her with out respect??
Manmademan
Member
This is ridiculous. OP is letting his hatred for organized religion blind him to doing the rational thing. Go ahead OP, wreck your relationship over this.
The bottom line is that religion in and of itself is not a bad thing. Teaching your daughter to think critically and for herself is the important part. Many, many freethinkers come out of religious households.
But it doesn't seem like critical thinking is one of your strong points.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Her religion isn't inherently silly, but her take on it certainly is.
The souls of unbaptized children going to limbo?
Jeez.
A baptism is not a brainwashing. Compromise. And remain involved in her life to teach her on your own. You can't have a monopoly on her future.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Sorry about the situation you're in, man. I personally think you're 110% right on an ethical level (forcing a religion on someone way too young to understand anything about it is completely messed up in my book), but your situation is clearly more complex than that. Should you have agreed to the baptism (which, as an atheist, you should comfortably recognize as a pointless ritual that really does no more harm than good)? Well, it probably would have made things easier going forward. But I also understand your unwillingness to agree to your GF taking your daughter the first step down a path which seems certain to involve a lot of religious indoctrination.
When it all comes down to it, it seems like you've really ended up with the wrong kind of person beliefs-wise. Of course, saying that now doesn't help anything, but given what you've told us I'm not sure what would, short of you giving up on your (non-)beliefs.
All I can really say is that I hope things work out for you in the end.
When it all comes down to it, it seems like you've really ended up with the wrong kind of person beliefs-wise. Of course, saying that now doesn't help anything, but given what you've told us I'm not sure what would, short of you giving up on your (non-)beliefs.
All I can really say is that I hope things work out for you in the end.
Devolution
Member
Yes but treating mom like that will undermine her authority and respect. If he wants to teach her to respect all kinds of religion while he's chastising her own, she's only going to be more confused. You can teach critical thinking and a broader perspective without alienating your own wife and child.
By refusing to compromise on an issue that she's obviously rather invested in. As an atheist, it should be your goal to teach your daughter critical thinking, that is all. If you are successful in teaching her to think critically, then you needn't worry about her in the future, religious or not.
Having religion isn't some terrible disease that will make you waste away, being irrational and not being able to think for yourself are though.
For an atheist, you're really fucking stupid.
I grew up in an Italian family and I was designated Roman Catholic without my consent. My grandparents drilled it into my life, My parents forced me to do my communion and confirmation, I was baptized at 2, and what happened to me?
I turned 8 and realized it was all stupid and made no sense. I realize that social engineering and dynamics are important and that pretending is a useful thing. I pretended to accept my faith and in turn, I had many friends, and my family loved me. I realize not everyone is like me, and i'm willing to compromise and bend a little for the world so I can get what I want/need.
Here's what you need to do: Go to your wife, say you saw the light, you believe in God, religion makes sense, you're changed. Your parents will accept you. Your girlfriend will take you back, your girlfriends family will love you, and your daughter gets to have a nice party and some water put on your head.
If your daughter has an IQ of more than 50, she too will realize just how non-sensical it is, and when you and her come to realize that you're alike, you can attend stupid church sermons and wink at each other as if it's your little inside joke, and that's the special bond you'll create with your daughter for the rest of her life and it will nurture her and not give her crazy trust issues. You and her will have a sociological bond of you two, against the world, but more important, she will have a parent that is on her side and gets her.
If she turns out to love religion, well keep it to yourself and realize your daughter isn't going to grow up to cure cancer or discover the next big breakthrough in new energy, but hey, we can't all be winners.
TL
R: LIE. Lie about fucking everything, save your daughter's life, and I'm a big fucking prick, but who cares.
I grew up in an Italian family and I was designated Roman Catholic without my consent. My grandparents drilled it into my life, My parents forced me to do my communion and confirmation, I was baptized at 2, and what happened to me?
I turned 8 and realized it was all stupid and made no sense. I realize that social engineering and dynamics are important and that pretending is a useful thing. I pretended to accept my faith and in turn, I had many friends, and my family loved me. I realize not everyone is like me, and i'm willing to compromise and bend a little for the world so I can get what I want/need.
Here's what you need to do: Go to your wife, say you saw the light, you believe in God, religion makes sense, you're changed. Your parents will accept you. Your girlfriend will take you back, your girlfriends family will love you, and your daughter gets to have a nice party and some water put on your head.
If your daughter has an IQ of more than 50, she too will realize just how non-sensical it is, and when you and her come to realize that you're alike, you can attend stupid church sermons and wink at each other as if it's your little inside joke, and that's the special bond you'll create with your daughter for the rest of her life and it will nurture her and not give her crazy trust issues. You and her will have a sociological bond of you two, against the world, but more important, she will have a parent that is on her side and gets her.
If she turns out to love religion, well keep it to yourself and realize your daughter isn't going to grow up to cure cancer or discover the next big breakthrough in new energy, but hey, we can't all be winners.
TL
R: LIE. Lie about fucking everything, save your daughter's life, and I'm a big fucking prick, but who cares.
Oppo
Member
I agree with the rest of the thread insofar that you need to patch this up, because if she walks out on you then you'll probably have a very tough time seeing your daughter (rightly or wrongly, that's just the practical reality).
And it boils my blood to see so many advise you to kowtow to silly religion. As if YOU are the one being unreasonable. You are not. The family and girlfriend are. But you are seriously outnumbered.
So basically you have to decide right now to switch from a short game to a long game. But you need to make sure there IS a long game.
Good luck OP, I've said my piece.
And it boils my blood to see so many advise you to kowtow to silly religion. As if YOU are the one being unreasonable. You are not. The family and girlfriend are. But you are seriously outnumbered.
So basically you have to decide right now to switch from a short game to a long game. But you need to make sure there IS a long game.
Good luck OP, I've said my piece.
Horseticuffs
Full werewolf off the buckle
It's cool, man. I'm a weekend dad, too! We should do some kinda folk duo thing with all this newfound free time we'll both have.
How does "The weekend dads" treat ya'? I've already made a logo stamp for my acoustic!
You'll see. It's fucking wicked!
How does "The weekend dads" treat ya'? I've already made a logo stamp for my acoustic!
You'll see. It's fucking wicked!
Zoe
Member
What's the point of being in a religion if there are no rules?
Some of you guys are seriously demented. Yikes.
He is being unreasonable.
Instead of agreeing to let her baptize the baby (since it means nothing) he is putting his foot down and INCREASING the possibility of her becoming religious by being such a nutter about his atheism.
Again, the important thing to do as a father is teach her HOW to think, not WHAT to think.
Here's the thing OP:
The idea that a child should be brought up without a religion is radical and different. It may make all the sense in the world to you, but to your daughter's mother and all four of her grandparents, it's bizarre. This, combined with the fact that she's the mom and you're just the dad, plus the fact that your parents and hers do get a say in the matter means that you can't really expect to get your way.
Being raised in a religion isn't a terrible fate. You were raised in a religion, I was, most atheists I know are. We get over it. She might, or she might stay religious, which is also not the worst thing in the world. Yeah, some people go full retard, but that's incredibly rare.
And if you don't fuck this up, your daughter will have something we didn't: an atheist father figure. A non-believing role model. That's huge.
Your daughter will be fine. Unless you keep throwing your hissy-fits and she ends up being raised by a single mother, or shared custody of parents who hate each other. That can be legitimately traumatizing. Way worse than a couple drops of holy water and a few years of sleeping through sermons.
saltinekracka
Member
You should stay together until your daughter is, say, 17, then ask her if she wants to have a broken family or not.
This thread is why my interest in a girl drops the moment I find out she's serious about religion. It's just a complete turn-off for me. It's not just for my sake, either. She'd be as uncomfortable with my beliefs as I am with hers.
OP, seek a compromise since you're so deep into it, but keep in mind that the compromise should not necessarily entail staying together with your girlfriend. Think in terms of the child's best interest.
OP, seek a compromise since you're so deep into it, but keep in mind that the compromise should not necessarily entail staying together with your girlfriend. Think in terms of the child's best interest.
A baptism doesn't decide your child's religion. Religion requires belief. Babies don't even have the capacity for belief. What she eventually decides about her spirituality will still be up to her.
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