Jag
Member
They are just as corrupt and comprised as their hypocritical members.
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Atheists in Malaysia should be hunted down, minister says
- Thread starter AcademicSaucer
- Start date
They are just as corrupt and comprised as their hypocritical members.
LordKasual
Banned
I currently believe that Religion is absolutely a form of poison. A mental poison.
But a better analogy would be a "mental virus". Because once it takes hold, it slowly begins to change the way you think.
Some people just inherent it from their parents, and think nothing of it
Some people catch it, and get violently ill.
Some people have it, but fight it off and become immune.
It's extremely contagious. Some are more susceptible than others, some react in different ways to others.
People claim that it's inherently bad, or that it's inherently good. Neither is particularly true...but nonetheless, the common denominator is always the same.
It sounds just like a flowery way to describe religion...but I honestly believe this is an accurate description.
Replace religion with any ISM, any kind of bigot ideal or view.
Yes, this happens when people deal in hate.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
That's what the people in the photo were doing!
LordKasual
Banned
Thoughts can be infectious.
Just like how anxiety is a self-amplifying thought process, I believe things like hatred and religion can take root and completely change a person, if they aren't able to identify how and why it changes them.
It's never really the material itself that's significant. It's the underlying process that rationalizes it. Once that takes hold, you can put whatever material you want there (Christianity, Islam, Bigotry, Nazism, Pacificism) get a person to believe in anything.
That's where things like religion and hate get their power.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Absolutely horrifying.
What a charming guy.
Oh, that's all right then! No biggie! It's not like the lives of these people matter? No seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you?
Yeah, you just "both sided" this shit. Wow.
Who the fuck are you to tell people from a marginalized, discriminated against group when and how they should deal with the matter?
I Stalk Alone
Member
No, what you said doesnt sound like religion at all.
I would hope people connect with others because of who they are not because of their supposed affiliations.
What you wrote is why religions exist in the first place
I am an atheist not because of anything except the fact that I believe in one less god than those who have one. Thats it, i can be friends with them with everything else. No need for a gathering of like minds. I dont go around looking for people who like to eat peanut butter and celery just because I do as well. Being an atheist should not be a big deal. Make it one and it becomes defiance.
When you grow up in a country like where i was born and most if not all people have a religion, When some decide to reject religion they still make the cultural mistake of acting like they need to find othr people like themselves and form a group because being in one is what everyone else is doing. It goes against the whole idea of rejecting religion as you end up creating another one in its place.
LordKasual
Banned
He's absolutely right.
If you're the kind of Atheist who needs to form groups and argue with Theists and convince everyone that your way is better...you are literally no different from the people you defected from.
You've just traded one ideal for another, and used a different thought process to rationalize it.
As an Athiest....I simply do not care what your religion is, or how many people believe in it. It is of absolutely no consequence to me.
Unless a consequence would be forced upon me (topic of this thread), in which case I honestly have no problem lying or choosing an affiliation to keep the peace, or make people feel better around me.
It doesn't matter. The actual stories of religion are nonsense to me....but I understand why people cling to it, so I can empathize with the belief system. All humans face existential dread at some point, religion is just a very convenient (albeit a bit flawed) way to cope.
Were we disagreeing because I fully agree with you.
I only had an issue with you singling out religion, but you're not so it's fine.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
What the fuck? We are talking about people who gather together as an oppressed and marginalized group. Do you even realize what thread you are in? It's a thread about atheists being persecuted, not redditors bickering about their euphoria. Your and I Stalk Alone's posts are so oozing with privilege, it's frankly disgusting.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
I used to be that too. Thankfully I moved back to Canada,there are a lot of ex-Muslims here too.
It was always so scary typing in something atheistic/secular into Google and running into those QualityNET blocks lol. I thought the police would be on my ass any second.
Huh? Where are you getting this? Many groups are formed purely because the people involved are like-minded. In this case, I imagine, given that they feel (and are) marginalized, they want to be able to hang out with people who they can talk with freely and actually be themselves around. Nothing about going around and arguing with theists (something which would be difficult in Malaysia, it seems).
family_guy
Member
There's a bit of irony here seeing as you're on NeoGAF. You're here to bond with strangers about video games. What if someone called you out for that and told you to go out and make some friends?
VPN is your best friend here lol.
I Stalk Alone
Member
They are not group. Thats the whole point.
Being an atheist is not being part of an atheist club.
I am from the malay race and tribalism under the guise of religion or non still exists and it is hard to take people away from the mindset and just be an individual. I ha e met a lot of so called atheists from the malay region, I go to school with a few of and it is concerning that there are some who consider their atheism to be another belief systems, It is not a system there are no set rules to being atheist.
Audioboxer
Member
As I said to I Stalk Alone go away and think about how in your face atheists tend to act in their pursuit of convincing people about their arguments. It can maybe be a bit over the top, passive aggressive and antagonizing, but it's often physically harmless. Then, compare that with the social media posts in the OP for how some try to argue their beliefs, talking about death for apostasy and hunting down non-believers. Framing that as "literally no different" from the people you defected from is a bit crazy. Not many sceptical movements, for as much as they can be criticised, are advocating for rounding up religious people and killing them.
These people in Malaysia are also not privileged YouTube sceptical mouth pieces regurgitating Hitchens memes and enjoying some ad money. As I also tried to explain them banding together and seeking unity against their oppressive government and bloodthirsty fellow citizens is probably a necessity more than it is a group of edgy atheists trolling that they attend the "Church of non-belief" meetings every Sunday. Apostasy threats are a real concern, so is it any surprise people leaving faiths try to band together in some countries?
This fucking world. Atheists are, dare I say it, often the nicest people you could meet. Don't atheists make up the least percentage of offenders in prisons, you know compared to the percentage of the population, so we offend the least!
It's just surreal seeing so much hatred towards someone who doesn't believe in a mythical god. Fucking bananas.
It's just surreal seeing so much hatred towards someone who doesn't believe in a mythical god. Fucking bananas.
Maintenance
Member
Religion is a cancer.
No, Religion /has/ cancer.
I don't get your logic. You have an interest. You find other people who share the same interest. There's nothing tribal about getting together. Tribalism is more of an extreme loyalty to an affiliate and is not the same as simply starting a club of similar interest.
I Stalk Alone
Member
Yeah i dont post here often and i dont think i know anyone here and i probably spend more time in off topic but, how do you even know i am bonding with anyone? I come here to read the news. Help others if they need any advice on why we eat the food we do, which is probably as far as i go. Neogaf is not a hive mind.
If you called me out and told me to go out and make friends well thats what i do during the day not at 1am in the morning. But yeah sure i get what you mean.
I Stalk Alone
Member
Atheism is not an interest. It means you dont have an interest, in this case, religion.
The tribalism is cultural so when they become atheist the natural status quo is to still be part of some group rather than being free of group think altogether because that is all they know anx thus is where you get groups forming where there is no nee d for it unless they still need a sense of "belonging" what they need is a sense of individualism
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Let me point again that you're saying this in the context of a story about a country's government threatening to kill atheists because of a photo of them hanging out on facebook. Can you not understand that within a hostile environment, Atheists would desire the ability to interact with others like them without fear of reprisal?
Please read this post from another thread:
LordKasual
Banned
First off, calm down. Jesus.
I'm a bit torn on this issue to be honest. Because as far as "oppressed and marginalized" groups go, Atheism is, at its core, fundamentally different from religion, in that they aren't bound by faith. And the thing they're being oppressed over is a harmless idea. I understand the annoyance of being forced to play along with others, especially when breaking from more oppressive religions can be a mentally and emotionally rough process. But when you're in a country where your life is at risk for not doing so....things get a bit shaky. Now, BECAUSE they're in a country where they do not have the freedom to do something as harmless as not follow the grain, I see the significance in forming a movement to make it known that persecuting people for a lack of religion is a fucking stupid thing for a government to allow, and unacceptable for a population to even consider.
In this case, we aren't really talking about the "oppression and marginalization" of Atheists. We're talking about a lack of the fundamental freedom to think the way you want to. Atheism is just the trigger that exposes that issue in the way that country thinks and operates.
Now, where i'm torn about this comes about when I don't really know how you would even combat this issue without requiring it to be framed as a "religion vs. atheism" issue, because if all the Atheists just kept to themselves, the issue would never be challenged and the problem would never be solved.
In which case I really can't say anything worth reading. What they're doing is really all they can do. The only other option is to just say "fuck it" and follow along pretending that you're a believer.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
These atheists are banding together because they're being persecuted and shunned/disowned by their family/friends. It's 100% natural to meet up with people who can relate to you and have a lot in common with you.
Even if those things weren't happening to you, you can still agree that religion is a huge problem, as it most certainly is in the Islamic world, and that the world be a better place if it were less religious, so you meet up atheists to see how you can accomplish this. Same as any other political ideology, you see conservatives and liberals meeting up all the time.
Meeting up with other atheist is not some atheist sin. There are many reasons why people would want to do that.
I Stalk Alone
Member
If you cannot relate to other people who have a religion just because you are suddenly atheist then i dont know what to say. Hardly anyone in real life knows i am atheist because no one asks me and if they did I wouldnt have much to say about it other than yes.
It seems people here may know how to make friends but they certainly do not know how to keep in the company of your enemy.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
What? No. If I go to a sci-fi book club because I know people there will have similar taste in books to me and I'll be able to relate, does that mean I don't make friends with people who don't read sci-fi (and consider them my "enemy")? No. Stop being obtuse.
family_guy
Member
Eh, well they have meetup groups as basic as "20-30s club". It's a theme, but it doesn't mean people are sitting around talking about how great it is to be in their 20s and 30s. It just means there are people there that you might be able to relate to if you're in the same age group.
I Stalk Alone
Member
Read what i wrote again. To live as an atheist in that country those brave souls must learn to live with their "enemy", those who oppose them.
Your analogy should be if i go to a no book book club becaus i dont read any books so i can relate to others who do not read books does that mean i dont make friends with people who do read books.
Again atheism is not a genre of books as in religion going by your analogy. It is not reading books at all. Yes we can read we just dont read books.
Now can you point me to the no books, book club?
In the 80's when i became an atheist i didnt ever once think i needed to find other people who didnt have a religion either maybe it was easier since it wasnt common or in the news. I lived my life as it was because i became an atheist in a secular country away from the religious extremism of my former country. So maybe i was lucky to leave that place and not suffer the consequences. I commend their choice to defy the laws of the land but it is idiotic and higgly risky. My advice to them like i told my malaysian friends here, Is to never live there permanently amd just live where i do.
At first I was like "well, they're seemingly trying to make the family seem a bit crazy and the atheist man a mostly decent fellow, so looks like they're setting it up for us to root for him". Then those final scenes came...
Now the fact that he seemed alright is almost even worse than if he was portrayed as a total dick.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
I don't know how this is difficult to understand, but having to constantly watch your tongue and hide an aspect of who you are because you're afraid it will invite others to harm you is tiring. And sometimes, you want the freedom to hang out with others who are in the same boat as you so you can at least have some time where you can interact without feeling like you have to put on a show at gunpoint. Being both gay and atheist, I know that pain all too well.
Westbahnhof
Banned
This statement confuses me.
You think that atheists who get shunned, threatened and hated should not band together but try to hang with the very people who want to hurt them?
All while staying in the atheist closet until.. Well, until they die?
Thanks for the post.
I didn't want to go there initially, but I feel that in these places, homosexuality and atheism are in the same drawer(even though gay people probable have it objectively worse than atheists), and making the comparison might make it easier to understand for some.
Faith and lack thereof are part of a person's identity.
Asking someone to just hide it is fucked up.
I Stalk Alone
Member
Yes it is tiring so you have to get the fuck out of a place that does not deserve you and find a place that does. Manage the risk. The world is a cruel and evil place sometimes and you must respect its existence. Malaysia is a shit country when it comes to religious and sexual freedom. You cannot chanhe that place unless the place is free of religion.
Where did i say any of that?
they need to learn to live with their enemy. By not posing as a threat. Pick your battles wisely and know when to retreat. Dont be a dead hero.
Like any bad relationship, sometimes an exit strategy is an only option. Otherwise you learn to play by their rules while you play your own game.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
There was no battle or act of heroism. This group took a picture of themselves hanging out at a bar and posted it on Facebook. That's all that was necessary to face a violent backlash in their home.
Westbahnhof
Banned
You are still advising acceptance of oppression by discouraging atheists to not hang out as atheists to not "threaten" anyone.
How can you not see that?
I Stalk Alone
Member
I dont accept oppression. But they cannot win this battle. They need to get the fuck out or your learn to live with the rules of the land. Thats their realism. I wouldnt want to live there.
I am open to other solutions.
But they shouldn't have to live with an enemy. The issue is the fact that there is an enemy.
Yeesh. Come on.
I Stalk Alone, you're right in the sense that Aetheism shouldn't be a thing such as there isn't an -ism for not reading books. Unfortunately, religion is still the majority and in several countries, atheism is a form of identification to be able to persecute them. There's no persecution for not being in a book club.
I Stalk Alone
Member
Yes thats true. But thats not the issue. The issue is the fact that it cannot be fixed in that country u less 275 million suddnely decide to lose their religion And sticking up your finger and covering your face with a pig empji and posting it on facebook is not the best way to look like you are not a threat.
The issue is that this group is persecuted and oppressed.
malikhaing_bayag
Member
Damn, I am currently working in Malaysia and the people are great. But this is too sad for the government.
I Stalk Alone
Member
Ok fine whats the solution for these idiots who got themselves into this mess? Especially pig boy?
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Why is it their problem that something so harmless is seen as a threat? Hanging with your buddies and talking about it on social media is something that everyone does, but someone who doesn't hide the fact that they're an atheist does it, and now it's a threat?
Society is what decided that something like that is evil and deserves death as a reward, not the atheists.
Some people don't have the money to go and start a new life someplace else. Your response boils down to "Deal with it" which is kinda shit, IMO. I consider myself atheist, doesn't mean that I hate those that are religious in any way but it sure is nice to live someplace where I don't have to worry about showing up at church every sunday for mass. If I lived someplace like where the article is based around, hell yeah i'd love to have an athiest group. A group of people who wanna shoot the shit and aren't all stuck up and intolerant in one way or another.
You really do need to check yourself.
They might have to apply for asylum in another country after seeing how people living there have reacted, or go into hiding and pretend they repent. Regardless, your responses seem to have derailed this thread more than enough. If there's anything i've learned it's that "I Stalk Alone" is kind of a dick.
Westbahnhof
Banned
Yeah, those idiots! Not hiding who they are instead of quietly accepting "that's just how it is" forever.
You seem to want them to shrug and go "oh well, can't be helped" and keep their head down forever. What's the end goal there? Giving up, forever, seems less productive than trying to get the freedom to exist.
Edit: I still can't believe you are calling them idiots. Incredible.
Why are they idiots?
Your bias is incredible. I think I understand your objective now, and it's disgusting.
What a hill to die on.
PdotMichael
Banned
But but the fedora atheists are so annoying!
I Stalk Alone
Member
It sure is nice but its not realistic in malaysia. I have checked myself. I have lived there its nice for a little while and i love the food but yeah i prefer freedom.
My response is deal with it because thats all they have ic gheu stay there. Please give me something realistic. Fuck they can take the bus to another country its like a hundred bucks to move to thailand but thats not the point. You want that place to suddnely be modernised and civil. News flash that shithole will be like that when you die.
World is cruel. Yes deal with it. You dont need a club to belong to a group to tell you that your are not in a group anymore. You are one fedora away from greatness in that case
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