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August Wrasslin' |OT| I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU-LY

A

Anth0ny

Member
serenewarfare said:
The problem from a story department is that once Asuka's winning streak reached about a year (so after her rematch with Bayley) and you acknowledge that, you kind of have your hands tied on what kind of story you can tell. They tried the "legend returns to challenge" with Mickie, they tried the "odds are against her" storyline in both San Antonio and Chicago, and they tried the "undefeated challenger" bit with Ember. The stuff with Ember is what the audience took to, as they thought she could win. They didn't take to the other two approaches. Sometimes the story just doesn't take. And unfortunately, the Ember injury exacerbated the problem. I think her winning in Brooklyn was always the plan though. Triple H talked today about how he sees Brooklyn as the "finale of sorts" for the year in NXT, and everything after that is a new beginning. So Ember beating Asuka one year after her debut would be the finale of that year.

Sasha and Becky worked because they are both just really good. But Sasha and Bayley worked on the level it did because there was two years of a story leading into that match. It played a huge part in what made it what it was.
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To me, there's only one satisfying way to end an "undefeated streak" story: beat him or her when, and ONLY when, the right challenger comes along. I think ending Asuka's win streak now, just because "she's moving up to the main roster, so welp gotta put someone over on your way out of the territory" is dumb and helps no one.

Of course, the issue becomes: who is the "right challenger"? Well, I say we'll know it when she shows up. Maybe it's Ronda. Maybe it's someone from the MYC. Impossible to say. But I strongly believe just ending her streak because they feel they have to is dumb. There's no shame in leaving NXT undefeated and just vacating the title.

When Steve Austin moved on from the IC title to the world title, he threw that mother fucker into a lake because he didn't want to do the job on the way UP.

I think Steve Austin and his opponent in that feud, THE ROCK, turned out just fine.
 
S

serenewarfare

Banned
Spirit of Jazz said:
Well put, I don't disagree with any of that. I just feel NXT's become a place to push outside talent above everybody else without thinking. In the early days you had a guy like Bo who was home grown and shitty vs Sami who was a great indie talent who finally got a chance to show he could be a great face outside of a dumb gimmick and both guys worked so well together. Sami could never get the better of this WWE guy but the mister NXT payoff was fantastic. Sami/Naville worked wonders because it was a matter of Adrian being pushed as a top talent but being willing to take shortcuts whilst Sami didn't. Then it went straight into his feud vs KO which was probably the best in NXT history.

Right now the show feels like it's nothing more than giving indie darlings boring as fuck Cena booking. Everything's "Hey, we have this top indie performed now so he's pushed into the main event and who gives a fuck about building characters!" Drew's just a guy who wins a lot, Bobby talks shit but always bulls it out, there's no development beyond that.

I just wish they could tell the kinds of stories G1 manages to build over a month over the course of half a year.

I mean Ohno vs Hideo was kind of interesting but apparently that's not even a thing?
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I think some of that is a failure of storytelling, but some of it is I think precaution with wanting to err on the side of being basic instead of taking things out of hand. I think Bo was outlandish because that's literally all he had and he made it work. His run as a babyface was a massive failure. Had that been a success, he wouldn't have had that sort of development.

Like look at Roddy. They are telling a great story with him because they are hitting on something real. He doesn't win all the time, but he doesn't have to because they have given you a reason to care about him. Same with Hideo and his frustration that is playing on a natural emotion that a guy in his scenario would be feeling.

I think in NXT (and Triple H's philosophy in general), they want to keep the wrestlers and characters as realistic and believable as possible. You know how it goes "the best gimmick is an extension of yourself". For some guys like Roddy, that is a family man who has been on a long journey. For some guys like Gargano, it's a guy searching for a new path after his team ended. For a guy like Roode, it's a guy who's been around a long time and feels like he's the best. Aleister Black is getting the mega push, sure, but his aura and work style are what separate him from the guys around him. And it's enough of a separation to make him seem drastically different from a guy like McIntyre, who has gotten the same push in the same timeframe. Even guys like the Street Profits, who are outlandish, still have a grounding in reality where you can see them as real people.

Anth0ny said:
To me, there's only one satisfying way to end an "undefeated streak" story: beat him or her when, and ONLY when, the right challenger comes along. I think ending Asuka's win streak now, just because "she's moving up to the main roster, so welp gotta put someone over on your way out of the territory" is dumb and helps no one.

Of course, the issue becomes: who is the "right challenger"? Well, I say we'll know it when she shows up. Maybe it's Ronda. Maybe it's someone from the MYC. Impossible to say. But I strongly believe just ending her streak because they feel they have to is dumb. There's no shame in leaving NXT undefeated and just vacating the title.

When Steve Austin moved on from the IC title to the world title, he threw that mother fucker into a lake because he didn't want to do the job on the way UP.

I think Steve Austin and his opponent in that feud, THE ROCK, turned out just fine.
Click to expand...

Well I guess the question then becomes do you want it to be Ember Moon on the biggest NXT stage in what is probably a great match, or do you want it to be her losing to Alexa with interference from Nia in a decent match after a month on Raw?
 
S

somedevil

Member
Safe Shirt?

DHX2_NxUIAAVVPd.jpg:large
Click to expand...

Shirt based off of this

https://twitter.com/wai0937/status/897576231570374659
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
serenewarfare said:
Well I guess the question then becomes do you want it to be Ember Moon on the biggest NXT stage in what is probably a great match, or do you want it to be her losing to Alexa with interference from Nia in a decent match after a month on Raw?
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oh I was just talking in theory, I know the real situation is awful either way so yeah I guess in reality losing in NXT would be slightly more satisfying :p

somedevil said:
Safe Shirt?



Shirt based off of this

https://twitter.com/wai0937/status/897576231570374659
Click to expand...

holy shit this is too good

even the color schemes are on point (white and gold = OVO Drake, you got Blue Jays colors, Raptors colors... amazing)
 
C

cordy

Banned
Roman's thoughts on his post-WM "this is my yard now" promo.

How Reigns feels about the promo:

"There's a different type of appreciation that you have for a really good match, like a 30-minute bout, and taking the crowd on that roller coaster ride. I've been fortunate enough to be in a few of those matches to where it was just incredible, the crowd was awesome they were just going nuts the whole time, super into the match, but that [promo] was probably the most gratifying thing I've... I enjoyed that segment more than any other segment and I had just wrestled and beaten the Undertaker the night before.

But it was so bittersweet to just be able to have full control. I just felt like everybody was on a string at that point and I was just pulling them. There's a little thing where you can see I pretty much mouth it, 'I got em in the palm of my hand.' I had thousands of people doing exactly what I wanted them to do and it's like master plan and it's unfolding perfectly in front of your eyes.

I could've stayed out there for another 20 minutes. We had other segments and other brothers that had to go out there and do their work. But the whole time, I was looking at every different cameraman and they're all telling me to 'go home' and that signal is just one finger doing a little circle, saying 'wrap it up, take it home, let's go,' and I sat there and looked at cameramen doing that for five to 10 minutes and I knew we were getting pretty deep into that Seg One and we're about pretty much cross over into Seg 2 and Seg 3 and I felt bad because there were guys, I think it was one of the Hardy Boyz against Sheamus or Cesar, and I did feel bad because I did eat into their match, but there was that electricity out there and you don't leave the table when you're on the heater."

One whether the plan all along to only say, "This is my yard now" and nothing else:

"We threw around a few different ideas, but it wasn't going to be much longer than that. Maybe a line or two more. But we felt after what happened the night before, it was fitting to keep it simple and let the crowd do all the work and luckily we had a great crowd, super energetic. That's the thing for me; I don't care what you do in there, as long as you stay somewhat respectful and don't get crazy. We are syndicating live and it is a PG show. As long as you're rowdy and noisy, you can cheer me, you can boo me, you can do whatever you gotta do, just as long as you're into it and you're having fun and you're taking advantage of the time you're spending at the show and the hard money you spent to get there. That's all I care about is people coming and enjoying themselves, whether that's through cheering me, booing me, whatever it may be. Just have a good time."

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2017/08/15/roman-reigns-summerslam-wrestlemania-promo-john-cena
Click to expand...

Honestly I'm ok with cocky Reigns.
 
S

Spirit of Jazz

Banned
serenewarfare said:
I think some of that is a failure of storytelling, but some of it is I think precaution with wanting to err on the side of being basic instead of taking things out of hand. I think Bo was outlandish because that's literally all he had and he made it work. His run as a babyface was a massive failure. Had that been a success, he wouldn't have had that sort of development.

Like look at Roddy. They are telling a great story with him because they are hitting on something real. He doesn't win all the time, but he doesn't have to because they have given you a reason to care about him. Same with Hideo and his frustration that is playing on a natural emotion that a guy in his scenario would be feeling.

I think in NXT (and Triple H's philosophy in general), they want to keep the wrestlers and characters as realistic and believable as possible. You know how it goes "the best gimmick is an extension of yourself". For some guys like Roddy, that is a family man who has been on a long journey. For some guys like Gargano, it's a guy searching for a new path after his team ended. For a guy like Roode, it's a guy who's been around a long time and feels like he's the best. Aleister Black is getting the mega push, sure, but his aura and work style are what separate him from the guys around him. And it's enough of a separation to make him seem drastically different from a guy like McIntyre, who has gotten the same push in the same timeframe. Even guys like the Street Profits, who are outlandish, still have a grounding in reality where you can see them as real people.
Click to expand...

I fully agree with you. The best points of NXT are still so much better than that main shows. I'd even concur that I've believe Strong has been the most boring as fuck indie guy for a decade or so but his feud with Roode has given him way more personality than he's ever had. Then at the same time there's nothing I'm hot for like I was Banks/Lynch or Sami/Neville. The product's still drastically better than the jingoism of the main show but the focus is now on "here's folks that are great!" rather than "Let's see these folks develop!" Maybe I'm crazy but I'd much rather see No Way get a tittle shot right now over Drew.
 
B

BewareTheBatsie

Member
Ember vs Asuka really should main event. Not that the Drew vs Roode match won't be good, but I think if Asuka's streak is really ending it's something that should happen last.
 
S

serenewarfare

Banned
Spirit of Jazz said:
I fully agree with you. The best points of NXT are still so much better than that main shows. I'd even concur that I've believe Strong has been the most boring as fuck indie guy for a decade or so but his feud with Roode has given him way more personality than he's ever had. Then at the same time there's nothing I'm hot for like I was Banks/Lynch or Sami/Neville. The product's still drastically better than the jingoism of the main show but the focus is now on "here's folks that are great!" rather than "Let's see these folks develop!" Maybe I'm crazy but I'd much rather see No Way get a tittle shot right now over Drew.
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I think the show still has that, it's just not focused on that nearly as much as it was.

I think a lot of that developmental work is being done in the tag division. American Alpha, AOP, The Revival, and even now with the Street Profits. That seems to be the division they are using to develop guys.
 
S

Spirit of Jazz

Banned
serenewarfare said:
I think the show still has that, it's just not focused on that nearly as much as it was.

I think a lot of that developmental work is being done in the tag division. American Alpha, AOP, The Revival, and even now with the Street Profits. That seems to be the division they are using to develop guys.
Click to expand...

I feel the tag division was still alive and doing that whilst they were building up the rest of the roster as big indie folks same time though? It's just a shame that it's become exclusive to the tag division where I really like AOP, Heavy Machinery (mostly due to Otis), DIY, Street Profits,Alpha, and Revival. That's the division where talent and overness matters where as everything else is down to which indie performer HHH likes.

I just wish that a guy like No Way or even fucking Ohno got a big PPV match because of their performances. As it stand being new and hot seems to matter more than anything else.
 
S

serenewarfare

Banned
Spirit of Jazz said:
I feel the tag division was still alive and doing that whilst they were building up the rest of the roster as big indie folks same time though? It's just a shame that it's become exclusive to the tag division where I really like AOP, Heavy Machinery (mostly due to Otis), DIY, Street Profits,Alpha, and Revival. That's the division where talent and overness matters where as everything else is down to which indie performer HHH likes.

I just wish that a guy like No Way or even fucking Ohno got a big PPV match because of their performances. As it stand being new and hot seems to matter more than anything else.
Click to expand...

The way they operate, they want to keep the Takeovers around two hours. They don't want to bloat it out. So by virtue of that, a lot of the roster is going to get left out.

And yeah, being hot matters. You want guys that the crowd thinks are stars. It's easier to grab guys already in that mold than to build them yourself. Which is not to say they've built none of them, or haven't built the ones who were stars into something better, but that's the reality of the situation. Why do the work on a guy to get them over from scratch when you can much more easily grab a guy who is already over and fine tune them?

Spirit of Jazz said:
At what point should I cancel my NJPW sub for Stardom assuming I've watched no Stardom ever.
Click to expand...

I would not cancel NJPW, but Stardom is awesome. Lots of great stuff going back, and their 5 Star GP (their version of the G1), starts on Saturday. It's cheaper than NJPW though. Only $7 a month.

If you do sub, I recommend going back and watching the Cinderella tournament from earlier this year. The final match was fantastic.
 
M

Mahonay

Banned
OwensIsNow said:
Listening to Review-A-Smackdown and that shit with Jinder was disgusting after the weekend the US had. Fuck Vince McMahon.
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The whole music and dancing bit for Indian Independence Day, I was like this is great, I'm actually enjoying this.

Wait. People are booing it. He's a heel. He's a heel for being Indian. That's it. Fuck.

Jinder should be a face.
 
G

GiantBombGamer

Member
Sephzilla said:
A thought that popped up in my mind since the Miz gif came up. I get the impression that Miz is probably a pretty decent guy off camera. When was the last time you heard of Miz doing something fucking stupid on twitter or getting shit backstage? Miz strikes me as someone who probably ends up being a pretty okay dude once the cameras turn off and he drops his character.

Either that or he's really good at hiding that he's a piece of shit
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Having met him a few times, he was really nice and chill. Obviously, interacting with the public thats how he's supposed to be and is trained to be, but I bet a guy like that doesn't bag a chick like Maryse without being a pretty decent dude...I mean, he's clearly punching above his weight otherwise.
 
S

SomewhatGroovy

Banned
Mahonay said:
The whole music and dancing bit for Indian Independence Day, I was like this is great, I'm actually enjoying this.

Wait. People are booing it. He's a heel. He's a heel for being Indian. That's it. Fuck.

Jinder should be a face.
Click to expand...

I sound like a broken record but that's their thing and it's creatively lazy, outdated and perpetuates ignorant stereotypes.

Sheamus, Del Rio, Rusev, Jinder, King Barrett, Kevin Owens for a second, Divari...in recent years.
 
B

BronsonLee

Member
They went too deep with the Asuka streak because she's running into the same problem I had with her late pre-WWE stuff which is that she always wins in dominating fashion

Her stuff is entirely skippable
 
C

cordy

Banned
Yeah...Jinder should really be a face. Honestly if they're not leading up to that I don't know what they're doing but here's what I say. Jinder's going to lose the world title sometime within the next few months so after he's done with this feud put him in the US title picture. Styles can lose the belt to a heel, Jinder can go against the heel and turn face and you can do a genuine "foreign star as a face US champion" thing which they need to do. Mahal's also in a good position right now so no need to completely throw him down the card, just put him in the US title picture after he loses this belt.

Actually, Rusev can beat Styles, Styles moves back to the main event, Mahal can beat Rusev and then Rusev can enter the main event. Works out well and you can keep shuffling the upper midcard/main eventers around a bit. It's a good setup for everyone involved. This way neither gets stagnant. Mahal's also finding his niche right now with his current character. These past few weeks, that Cena match, even how he acted it seems like he's finally nailed down what he needs to be.

I just wish they stop telling him to cut these same ass "you hate me because of my skin" promos.
 
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