Ziggler....lol
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
August Wrasslin |OT| The Sunday of Summer
- Thread starter Plywood
- Start date
Ziggler....lol
Because it has the better Punk vs Cena match from Raw
So much this...
the one on RAW was better
the match itself wasn't THAT incredible at MiTB, it's the whole emotional investment that made it so great
pantsattack
Member
slightconfuse
Banned
How liger got booked in NXT
Jimmy King
Member
owens/cesaro should be prettaaaaay good
pantsattack
Member
That new Joe theme
Cena Rollins probably will, I don't see Owens in a position to deliver a top tier match after going through a main event ladder match the night before.
diva tag
Turn my headphones up!
Jimmy King
Member
What I want to know is what will be the biggest swerve of the night and how physical will Jon Stewart get?
Sorry sunny but there's a little bit of "full of shit" in this article
Your boy KANE will interfere in the main event or Roman turns.
Jon will kick off the angle where he spearheads the destruction of the Authority and also kicks HHH in the dick.
Sweeney Tom
Banned
I see stuff like Austin and Vampiro talking about how they see the way wrestling is going and how someone like Vampiro steps in to try and set them on the right path in terms of telling a story in the ring, and I get hopeful. But then I see the Young Bucks and
And I lose all hope about the future of wrestling. I worry that my interest in wrestling will die when all the old wrestlers heads are gone that were trained by the ones before them. I see stuff like this and realize that any pretense of storytelling in a match is gone. It's already happened to the indies and as more and more guys go from that line of thinking to the WWE, I think it'll only get worse. It'll be more and more about popping a crowd as often as possible rather than building to a much bigger blowoff that sticks with you. It'll just be about spots and one upping each other as much as possible. I've said it before, but wrestlers now look at their matches as 'how many gifs can I get made in a match. How many will put me out there and expose me more to social media so WWE will call me.' The influence seeps in more and more year after year because of who is on top of indie wrestling at the time. As much as Punk had his shitty spots, and as much as I wasn't a Punk fan, he did try to captivate storytelling when he was in indies. He had the line from his shoot with Joe about them saying they were going to spam finisher kickouts before Steamboat told them, 'That's stupid. Just build up the finisher and never hit it so that way when you DO hit it it's a big deal.' Austin Aries is the one I credit most with the movez banner being a thing and that every match in the indies became a cruiserweight match times ten. Daniels hitting DVDs as mid match moves. Youth Suicide as well. Young Bucks dominate fan mindshare in the indies and they've never told any kind of story in a match other than 'HEY YOU FANS YOU'RE IN ON THE JOKE TOO /WINK.' It's funny that there are people that shit on Vince Russo's mentality of 'the internet has changed everything,' because the Young Bucks is that mentality to the hundredth degree.
You can still work people. You can still get people emotionally invested. I'm not a fan of Honma, but he is a PERFECT example of that with his underdog story. Brock is another guy who knows how to look and work a ring and make you believe. But why do that? I'll just do a 450 knee drop to a kneeling opponent instead and that'll put me in a gif and people will retweet that gif and that'll get me booked. Until we eventually run out of ways to outdo each other and none of that shit pops like it used to. And it COMPLETELY dominates an indie card because you can't have Piper vs Valentine on the same match as Davey Richards vs Eddie Edwards. It fucks the crowd up too much, and the latter is the more popular thing for now, so a lot of those kids don't even get trained to know how to have that kind of match.
It's why I DO think Toru Yano and Akebono are a better wrestler than Trevor Lee or Mike Bailey. Because they know how to tell an interesting story. It's engaging. It's not just a sequence of moves placed because those moves need to be performed to get to the finish. It's why I'm glad ZSJ got to work with guys like Nakajima who are real oldheads and know the older style of Japanese wrestling so that he can learn it and be someone who I want to follow outside of in gif format.
And I lose all hope about the future of wrestling. I worry that my interest in wrestling will die when all the old wrestlers heads are gone that were trained by the ones before them. I see stuff like this and realize that any pretense of storytelling in a match is gone. It's already happened to the indies and as more and more guys go from that line of thinking to the WWE, I think it'll only get worse. It'll be more and more about popping a crowd as often as possible rather than building to a much bigger blowoff that sticks with you. It'll just be about spots and one upping each other as much as possible. I've said it before, but wrestlers now look at their matches as 'how many gifs can I get made in a match. How many will put me out there and expose me more to social media so WWE will call me.' The influence seeps in more and more year after year because of who is on top of indie wrestling at the time. As much as Punk had his shitty spots, and as much as I wasn't a Punk fan, he did try to captivate storytelling when he was in indies. He had the line from his shoot with Joe about them saying they were going to spam finisher kickouts before Steamboat told them, 'That's stupid. Just build up the finisher and never hit it so that way when you DO hit it it's a big deal.' Austin Aries is the one I credit most with the movez banner being a thing and that every match in the indies became a cruiserweight match times ten. Daniels hitting DVDs as mid match moves. Youth Suicide as well. Young Bucks dominate fan mindshare in the indies and they've never told any kind of story in a match other than 'HEY YOU FANS YOU'RE IN ON THE JOKE TOO /WINK.' It's funny that there are people that shit on Vince Russo's mentality of 'the internet has changed everything,' because the Young Bucks is that mentality to the hundredth degree.
You can still work people. You can still get people emotionally invested. I'm not a fan of Honma, but he is a PERFECT example of that with his underdog story. Brock is another guy who knows how to look and work a ring and make you believe. But why do that? I'll just do a 450 knee drop to a kneeling opponent instead and that'll put me in a gif and people will retweet that gif and that'll get me booked. Until we eventually run out of ways to outdo each other and none of that shit pops like it used to. And it COMPLETELY dominates an indie card because you can't have Piper vs Valentine on the same match as Davey Richards vs Eddie Edwards. It fucks the crowd up too much, and the latter is the more popular thing for now, so a lot of those kids don't even get trained to know how to have that kind of match.
It's why I DO think Toru Yano and Akebono are a better wrestler than Trevor Lee or Mike Bailey. Because they know how to tell an interesting story. It's engaging. It's not just a sequence of moves placed because those moves need to be performed to get to the finish. It's why I'm glad ZSJ got to work with guys like Nakajima who are real oldheads and know the older style of Japanese wrestling so that he can learn it and be someone who I want to follow outside of in gif format.
Somebody who was their supposedly noticed him in the crowd. He was doing Balor's entrance when he came out. The guy has pictures but said he was not going to release them.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I think there's room for all of that. But people won't remember "that sweet superkick jiff from july 2012" in 5 years, they'll remember a story Bork told.
Jimmy King
Member
wrestling isn't real, but its memefication problem is
slightconfuse
Banned
This should be good
FlammableD
Banned
Yeah, I'm not taking anyone who uses the word "millennials" non ironically seriously, sorry Sunny.
Frecklestein
Banned
If I was a wrestler, my name would be Milton Millennial
VinceAustinPodcast.gif
slightconfuse
Banned
Meltzer on NXT salaries
Finn needs to stop with the kool aid
Finn needs to stop with the kool aid
Sibersk Esto
Banned
By the way, listen to the second part of the vampiro interview on the Steve Austin show, some great stories.
Finn is being diplomatic in a public interview. Smart move, guy is gonna be huge in WWE.
slightconfuse
Banned
Revolution is just another wwe buzzword. It doesn't mean anything but it doesn't stop them from shouting it to the masses
Like Aii said, its a company line that Finn is repeating. Its the one of the adjectives they are affixing to NXT marketing material and so he used it. It doesn't mean anything. Nothing most WWE contracted wrestlers say in interviews mean anything.
Jimmy King
Member
Is Finn Balor really that good?
He's got a really good look. Though in the world of NJPW, I never thought he was a top performer. Which is a hard thing to accomplish given your peers there.
But they could make a lot of money with him pretty easily.
in NXT? no, he's a very competent wrestler but he's nothing compared to most of his indie work
Finn needs to accept he's gonna get bumped up to fill the void Jeff Harvey left and will be pandering to children and their mothers for the next 7-10 years if god willing he still has his hair.
I see stuff like Austin and Vampiro talking about how they see the way wrestling is going and how someone like Vampiro steps in to try and set them on the right path in terms of telling a story in the ring, and I get hopeful. But then I see the Young Bucks and
And I lose all hope about the future of wrestling. I worry that my interest in wrestling will die when all the old wrestlers heads are gone that were trained by the ones before them. I see stuff like this and realize that any pretense of storytelling in a match is gone. It's already happened to the indies and as more and more guys go from that line of thinking to the WWE, I think it'll only get worse. It'll be more and more about popping a crowd as often as possible rather than building to a much bigger blowoff that sticks with you. It'll just be about spots and one upping each other as much as possible. I've said it before, but wrestlers now look at their matches as 'how many gifs can I get made in a match. How many will put me out there and expose me more to social media so WWE will call me.' The influence seeps in more and more year after year because of who is on top of indie wrestling at the time. As much as Punk had his shitty spots, and as much as I wasn't a Punk fan, he did try to captivate storytelling when he was in indies. He had the line from his shoot with Joe about them saying they were going to spam finisher kickouts before Steamboat told them, 'That's stupid. Just build up the finisher and never hit it so that way when you DO hit it it's a big deal.' Austin Aries is the one I credit most with the movez banner being a thing and that every match in the indies became a cruiserweight match times ten. Daniels hitting DVDs as mid match moves. Youth Suicide as well. Young Bucks dominate fan mindshare in the indies and they've never told any kind of story in a match other than 'HEY YOU FANS YOU'RE IN ON THE JOKE TOO /WINK.' It's funny that there are people that shit on Vince Russo's mentality of 'the internet has changed everything,' because the Young Bucks is that mentality to the hundredth degree.
You can still work people. You can still get people emotionally invested. I'm not a fan of Honma, but he is a PERFECT example of that with his underdog story. Brock is another guy who knows how to look and work a ring and make you believe. But why do that? I'll just do a 450 knee drop to a kneeling opponent instead and that'll put me in a gif and people will retweet that gif and that'll get me booked. Until we eventually run out of ways to outdo each other and none of that shit pops like it used to. And it COMPLETELY dominates an indie card because you can't have Piper vs Valentine on the same match as Davey Richards vs Eddie Edwards. It fucks the crowd up too much, and the latter is the more popular thing for now, so a lot of those kids don't even get trained to know how to have that kind of match.
It's why I DO think Toru Yano and Akebono are a better wrestler than Trevor Lee or Mike Bailey. Because they know how to tell an interesting story. It's engaging. It's not just a sequence of moves placed because those moves need to be performed to get to the finish. It's why I'm glad ZSJ got to work with guys like Nakajima who are real oldheads and know the older style of Japanese wrestling so that he can learn it and be someone who I want to follow outside of in gif format.
Look at Cena/Owens II at MiTB compared to Rollins/Ambrose at the same. Cena and Owens had their bunch of moves that they kicked out of and it was all executed very well yet as you have said Owens didn't do anything heelish, there was no real story to the match, it was just an escalating bunch of finishers that lead to 2 counts.
Yet people thought Ambrose/Rollins was boring or too slow compared to it because they didn't try and do a bunch of dumb moves but rather told a story with Ambroses leg which was relatively well done. All the big spots looked incredibly painful and brutal as is befitting the feud. The finish was a bit dumb in hindsight but it was meant to tell you that Rollins was just a tiny bit better than Ambrose in the end.
As entertaining as Cena/Owens series was it was literally just a bunch of moves in a trio of matches that culminated in a super finisher kick out into a tap out???? No real progression from match 1 to 3 in how the matches went apart from "quantity of moves done".
*shrug*
But Hardy was a huge star before his drug issues messed it up?
It's a great article and the Kevin Owens promo at the end really just cements the whole thing. The fans were speechless they had been rightly called out for losing the narrative. The wrestlers need to stop pandering, stop trying to get your shit in at bingo halls and school gyms cause you want a cheap pop and just work on telling a fucking story.
slightconfuse
Banned
This is great
XFL opening weekend a success
http://corporate.wwe.com/news/2001/wwe-corporate-xfl-opening-weekend-an-unqualified-success
XFL opening weekend a success
http://corporate.wwe.com/news/2001/wwe-corporate-xfl-opening-weekend-an-unqualified-success
avengers23
Banned
In 5 minutes?
Which is why he needs to just accept it.
dream
Member
I think the Kevin Owens promo was fantastic because it anticipated the tendencies of the audience, and then systematically shut them down. Owens pointed out how hypocritical and inconsistent they are, highlighted how destructively possessive they are, and then completely foreclosed the possibility of the Full Sail Fucknuts, who opened the show with "Bailey's better"/"No she's not," starting a dueling chant.
Owens held a mirror up to the Full Sail Fucknuts, who retreated into silent shame after seeing their ugly, hateful reflections.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
I wonder if attendance at full sail shows would actually suffer as a result of all this
Even in Japan, finisher kick outs are usually one or two reasons.
1. It's two rivals who have fought forever so the mentality is either 'I want to beat you so bad that I've got the energy to go on no matter what' or 'I've taken this move enough times that I know how to take it so I don't get knocked out'
2. You're fighting an unstoppable monster and HE can kick out of multiple finishers. YOU should not.
And even in those, it's never to the degree of those Owens/Cena or Punk/Cena matches. What was the point there? To add drama to a non-blood feud? Because it didn't. It actually kills any drama in a John Cena match. Just stop calling the FU a finisher if you're going that route.
1. It's two rivals who have fought forever so the mentality is either 'I want to beat you so bad that I've got the energy to go on no matter what' or 'I've taken this move enough times that I know how to take it so I don't get knocked out'
2. You're fighting an unstoppable monster and HE can kick out of multiple finishers. YOU should not.
And even in those, it's never to the degree of those Owens/Cena or Punk/Cena matches. What was the point there? To add drama to a non-blood feud? Because it didn't. It actually kills any drama in a John Cena match. Just stop calling the FU a finisher if you're going that route.
dream
Member
I doubt it. I don't think those people have anything else going on in their lives.
They should be terrified right now though. It's no accident that WWE stopped editing the Brooklyn boos, and wrote and aired Kevin Owens's promo.