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[brisk tacos]

There's no ADD culture.

There are 3 hours of Raw, 2 hours of Smackdown, a PPV every 4 weeks and a WWE Network though.

But yeah, it's the fans fault that they want to see something new after every 30 hours of wrestling.

I dunno. In my travels to America, all I see are people constantly messing with phones while listening to music or podcasts, having conversations, and doing something else. People get bored really easily when they're used to constant updating stimuli. It makes sense to me that this could apply to the attention spans of wrestling fans today who get bored of whoever is on top no matter what they're doing. See: CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, John Cena, Seth Rollins.

The reason Brock is so cool is because he doesn't stay around long enough for you to get bored, so he's constantly fresh. This is not a blame the wrestling fans thing. It's pretty universal to all forms of entertainment right now.

 

[Kaiterra]

I'm still on board with Seth.

Also I'd personally be a lot more in favor of Cena if his character wasn't a hypocritical, fascist, bullying asshole who rarely legitimately takes anyone else seriously while also being King of the Mountain but also constantly treated like the underdog even though it hasn't made sense in forever.

Also, like, how he wins when he shouldn't not necessarily (just) in terms of stuff like the Owens feud but also stuff like that Ziggler cage match, that Sandow MITB cash-in, the I Quit match with the Miz and the Summerslam match with the Nexus where the odds are so ridiculously stacked against him that it completely shatters the suspension of disbelief when he decides to Just Win out of nowhere and shrug off all the punishment like it was nothing. This stuff would probably be a lot more tolerable if they DID treat him like the monster he clearly is, though.

Oh and the way that authority figures always bowed down to him and cowered in front of him like he's the actual boss. That would have been great if it was explored in a storyline where it turned out to actually be the case though.

 

[British Monsoon]

out em boots

FutureShock out of Manchester. They seem well liked by those who attend, but when you're talking about the "best of British" and the only names I recognise are a few PCW guys and Jack Gallagher...ehhh. Also, fucking lol at Xander Cooper doing a shit (but also very blatant) appropriation of Dalton Castle's look;

 

[klonere]

I dunno. In my travels to America, all I see are people constantly messing with phones while listening to music or podcasts, having conversations, and doing something else. People get bored really easily when they're used to constant updating stimuli. It makes sense to me that this could apply to the attention spans of wrestling fans today who get bored of whoever is on top no matter what they're doing. See: CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, John Cena, Seth Rollins.

The reason Brock is so cool is because he doesn't stay around long enough for you to get bored, so he's constantly fresh. This is not a blame the wrestling fans thing. It's pretty universal to all forms of entertainment right now.

Friend, this is not an American only issue.

 

[FlammableD]

Also, fucking lol at Xander Cooper doing a shit (but also very blatant) appropriation of Dalton Castle's look;

jezzzzus fuck that's almost as bad as New Jersey Jimmy Havoc

 

[real_slime]

if anyone wants too i thought it'd be fun to rate your fav wrestlers and least fav in the old a to f ranking system. a friend did it earlier in the topic when i ranked the women's nxt division and i thought 'huh we should do that' so

Brock Lesnar - A ++++

Seth Rollins - A
Cesaro - B+
John Cena - A-
Kevin Owens - A-
Big E - B+
Undertaker - B+
Braun Strong Man or whatever he's called - Immediate A
Bray Wyatt - F
Roman Reigns - F
Dean Ambrose - F
Luke Harper - A

Sasha Banks - A++++++

Becky - A
Bayley - B+
Charlotte - B+
Natalya - B
Naomi - B
A Bella - F


Not a complete ranking but it's the more 100% correct one in town.

 

[FlammableD]

he's the WWE champ and just beat john cena for the US title too now he's a double champ and is the most arrogant up his ass top level heel in the business

'hmm i just don't care'

that's cool man. seth isn't totally killing it here cos he's meant to be a face - his style is high pop very fast flippy shit cool stuff - but he's doing a dang good acting job as the shithead everybody hates.

seth rollins got over as a heel in 2015 and the IWC universe can't handle it.

Hey, I'm sure he'll be fine. He's got more going for him than most. But until very recently, he was just the ineffective puppet for Steph and Hunter. Which most are tired of. He's doing well and doing the job well, but it's not particularly compelling.

 

[real_slime]

if the undertaker comes out to this song next time then MAYBE he can hang with brock for about 30 seconds before brock kicks his ass permanently

https://youtu.be/kPjqAADShE4

this is one of the better themes wwe has ever done

to combine the attitude era nu-metal with gothic blow-horns and a feeling of death and darkness like this is super cool

it feels like the theme to dark souls if dark souls also used guitars



BTW this theme is what got me back into wrestling. when i heard it i was like 'aw shit i need to check this out again.'

 

[Maaaaaardy]

Seth Rollins - A+
Brock Lesnar - A+
Kevin Owens - A
Cesaro - A
Dolph Ziggler - B
Luke Harper - B
Roman Reigns - B-
John Cena - C+

Bray Wyatt - Z-

 

[Aiii]

Friend, this is not an American only issue.

I contest it is an issue at all.

People acting like boredom is a new thing. Just because the type of ways people occupy themselves is different, doesn't mean there's an issue.

Before smartphones I listened to music on a discman and read in a book while on the train, now I do that on a device. Same old thing, just new ways to do it.

 

[Entropia]

i heard an analist say sasha is one of the best of all time and i would not argue with tat

A what?

 

[FlammableD]

I contest it is an issue at all.

People acting like boredom is a new thing. Just because the type of ways people occupy themselves is different, doesn't mean there's an issue.

Before smartphones I listened to music on a diskman and read in a book while on the train, now I do that on a device. Same old thing, just new ways to do it.

But but those darn millenials!

 

[slightconfuse]

You guys forgot,about the GOAT sport

 

[British Monsoon]

Go to a PROGRESS show and the only time you'll see people staring at their phones is between matches. Because it's not overly-long and is actually engaging throughout.

 

[YesManKablaam]

Ah man, that's just reminding me of how sad it is to see Bray Wyatt being used over the last two years. Should be a top level heel, yet has he actually ever won a feud?

 

[OctoMan]

Seth is awesome right now. This page sucks.

 

[Heroman]

Seth is awesome right now. This page sucks.

He is the future of the wwe.

 

[brisk tacos]

I'm still on board with Seth.

Also I'd personally be a lot more in favor of Cena if his character wasn't a hypocritical, fascist, bullying asshole who rarely legitimately takes anyone else seriously while also being King of the Mountain but also constantly treated like the underdog even though it hasn't made sense in forever.

Also, like, how he wins when he shouldn't not necessarily (just) in terms of stuff like the Owens feud but also stuff like that Ziggler cage match, that Sandow MITB cash-in, the I Quit match with the Miz and the Summerslam match with the Nexus where the odds are so ridiculously stacked against him that it completely shatters the suspension of disbelief when he decides to Just Win out of nowhere and shrug off all the punishment like it was nothing. This stuff would probably be a lot more tolerable if they DID treat him like the monster he clearly is, though.

The win out of nowhere discussion has always been interesting to me, because that's how pretty much every form of entertainment does it as well. Protagonist has the odds stacked against them, seemingly impossible, then they somehow find a way to win at the last second and move on to the next story. Or, the protagonist is about to win and the antagonist gets away at the last second to fight another day. John Cena/Hulk Hogan being the protagonist examples, Flair and the Horsemen being the antagonist examples.

As wrestling is just another form of story telling, it follows and uses the same story telling techniques that other genres and mediums do. The story telling issues in wrestling are the same issues in all forms of story based entertainment. The core story telling tools are so ingrained in humanity that it is nearly impossible to really change them.

I'm not sure how many of you have read The Seven Basic Plots by Christopher Booker, but it essentially explains how there are really only seven plots. Some would argue that there are 20-36 basic, core plots, but as wrestling is such a broadstrokes and simplified genre, I'm inclined to go with the seven for it.

• Overcoming The Monster
• Rags To Riches
• The Quest
• Voyage And Return
• Comedy
• Tragedy
• Rebirth

It's really, really hard to break away from those. Especially in wrestling, which doesn't have a ton of room for subtlety and nuance, at least not on a scale to deviate from the core stories, as most of the bulk of story points are told with physicality, not words. Depending on how long the stories are, nearly all the plots can be used, such as with the Daniel Bryan story. I would argue that the voyage and return/rebirth are pretty much the same thing, but those are the basic framework for all stories in wrestling and, indeed, most genres of entertainment. It's very hard to deviate from those. For one, they're so ingrained that most people write those plots without even being aware of it. Secondly, its hard for others to accept something radically different than every story they've been told.

In my mind, the issue isn't repetition of the story points, but repetition of the presentation. That's why Lucha Underground had such an interesting product. They used the same core plot points, but with a totally fresh for wrestling presentation. The presentation of those core plots made for an engaging and entertaining product even though, at its heart, the stories were the same that have been told in wrestling for decades.

 

[FlammableD]

The win out of nowhere discussion has always been interesting to me, because that's how pretty much every form of entertainment does it as well. Protagonist has the odds stacked against them, seemingly impossible, then they somehow find a way to win at the last second and move on to the next story. Or, the protagonist is about to win and the antagonist gets away at the last second to fight another day. John Cena/Hulk Hogan being the protagonist examples, Flair and the Horsemen being the antagonist examples.

As wrestling is just another form of story telling, it follows and uses the same story telling techniques that other genres and mediums do. The story telling issues in wrestling are the same issues in all forms of story based entertainment. The core story telling tools are so ingrained in humanity that it is nearly impossible to really change them.

I'm not sure how many of you have read The Seven Basic Plots by Christopher Booker, but it essentially explains how there are really only seven plots. Some would argue that there are 20-36 basic, core plots, but as wrestling is such a broadstrokes and simplified genre, I'm inclined to go with the seven for it.

• Overcoming The Monster
• Rags To Riches
• The Quest
• Voyage And Return
• Comedy
• Tragedy
• Rebirth

It's really, really hard to break away from those. Especially in wrestling, which doesn't have a ton of room for subtlety and nuance, at least not on a scale to deviate from the core stories, as most of the bulk of story points are told with physicality, not words. Depending on how long the stories are, nearly all the plots can be used, such as with the Daniel Bryan story. I would argue that the voyage and return/rebirth are pretty much the same thing, but those are the basic framework for all stories in wrestling and, indeed, most genres of entertainment. It's very hard to deviate from those. For one, they're so ingrained that most people write those plots without even being aware of it. Secondly, its hard for others to accept something radically different than every story they've been told.

In my mind, the issue isn't repetition of the story points, but repetition of the presentation. That's why Lucha Underground had such an interesting product. They used the same core plot points, but with a totally fresh for wrestling presentation. The presentation of those core plots made for an engaging and entertaining product even though, at its heart, the stories were the same that have been told in wrestling for decades.

This is a quality post.

FutureShock out of Manchester. They seem well liked by those who attend, but when you're talking about the "best of British" and the only names I recognise are a few PCW guys and Jack Gallagher...ehhh.

Wow, £8.50/$13.25 is a lot for a streaming subscription service...

 

[RBH]

Raw ratings:


Viewers in millions:
Hour 1 - 3.606m
Hour 2 - 3.794m
Hour 3 - 3.764m


Raw after Summerslam Viewership History:

August 24th, 2015 = 3.721 Million
August 18th, 2014 = 4.19 Million
August 19th, 2013 = 4.3 Million
August 20th, 2012 = 4.47 Million
August 15th, 2011 = 5.05 Million

 

[British Monsoon]

Wow, £8.50/$13.25 is a lot for a streaming subscription service...

Yeah, especially when both PROGRESS & ICW's streaming services are available for less than a fiver a month.

 

[FlammableD]

Yeah, especially when both PROGRESS & ICW's streaming services are available for less than a fiver a month.

And CZW's isn't much more than those with a vastly bigger back catalogue. These streaming services make taking punts on individual event DVD's much harder, which I guess isn't great.

 

[Bandini]

Also, Paige has completely destroyed herself by being on Tough Enough, completely unlikable, obnoxious, a total brat. That was a bad move on her part.

But nobody actually watches Tough Enough. Tree falling in the woods and all that.

 

[real_slime]

Raw ratings:


Viewers in millions:
Hour 1 - 3.606m
Hour 2 - 3.794m
Hour 3 - 3.764m


Raw after Summerslam Viewership History:

August 24th, 2015 = 3.721 Million
August 18th, 2014 = 4.19 Million
August 19th, 2013 = 4.3 Million
August 20th, 2012 = 4.47 Million
August 15th, 2011 = 5.05 Million

why do you tv havers post this like it matters constantly

people don't watch tv anymore

there's your explanation, that's the whoooooole mystery. you've got motherfuckers checking it out a while later, torrenting, streaming, whatever. nobody watches tv ESPECIALLY not young audiences

'lol it's 3 mil that's not like the attitude era'

it's like saying there's a lack of beepers nowadays

'lol beepers done fell off'

 

[Aiii]

THE NIGHT MICK GOT MAD

Yes, I kind of lost it for a few minutes while watching the season finale of WWE ‪#‎ToughEnough‬. Although I hadn't commented publicly on the show since the ouster of Patrick Clark seven weeks ago, I'd been watching with my younger kids (who claim it's "best show ever, in the history of TV) and have actually enjoyed the shows the past few weeks - when the emphasis was put on wrestling, instead of random "challenges". I hadn't planned on commenting on the show, voting, or telling anyone who to vote for.
Then I heard it - Amanda publicly "exposing" rumors of Sara Lee's sex life, in an an attempt to sway voters against her. My immediate thought: she just slut-shamed Sara Lee on national television" - and it struck me as a hateful, petty, vindictive thing to do. Alas, for Amanda, the tactic seemed to backfire, and the bikini model from Yorktown Heights lost in a nearly 2-1 landslide, despite having advantages in almost every category that would seem to matter - beauty, body, athleticism, a save from The Miz, and her self-professed "it" factor.

So I broke my silence, sent out a tweet about how I felt about the situation, and could not have been happier with the outcome of the show. Someone pointed out to me that, in fairness to Amanda, that "apparently there was evidence, Mick". To which I replied "I don't give a crap if there was "evidence" - it was mean-girl bullying, and the antithesis of showing tolerance and respect."

There's a chance - probably a good chance - that WWE will hire Amanda to a developmental contract. If they do, I suggest they give her a little talk about sexual bullying, or "slut-shaming" - described by the Urban Dictionary as "an unfortunate phenomenon in which people degrade or mock a woman because she enjoys having sex, has sex a lot, or may even just be rumored to participate in sexual activity." I wish one of the judges, coaches or other participants would have publicly acknowledged Amanda's accusation. They didn't. So I have.

What's the big deal? Simple. Slut-shaming affects lives. It destroys lives. Sometimes, when the burden of public shaming becomes too much to bear, it can even end them.

I've put my time and money behind what I believe, which is the reason I'm proud to be part of the upcoming "UnSlut: A Documentary Film". Please watch and share the trailer. You might just make the world a little better place for all mankind. Just turn down the volume if you're watching at work....that "S" word come flying out at you a few times. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXvh9c79gqg

.

 

[FlammableD]

.

Good to see.

 

[real_slime]

is that block quote about mick

sorry my attention span is so short i just can't be bothered checking out a wrestling post if it's about some asshole i don't care about

edit: mick as in foley hahahaha

edit: actually read it now. it's a damn fine quote whoever said it and if mick did, then damn, as far as wrestling personalities go, this guy is at the top of the mountain and isn't even close to being touched.

 

[Menome]

is that block quote about mick

sorry my attention span is so short i just can't be bothered checking out a wrestling post if it's about some asshole i don't care about

edit: mick as in foley hahahaha

Foley coming down hard on slut-shaming in light of Amanda's behaviour on Tough Enough.

 

[real_slime]

Foley coming down hard on slut-shaming in light of Amanda's behaviour on Tough Enough.

fucking awesome man. i don't watch tough enough but this block quote is the realest shit i've ever seen from foley.

 

[Ithil]

.

I've already seen people denouncing Sara Lee for "being a ring rat" or making up "I totally heard she banged ___"stories about her, solely because one person in direct competition with her called her it once.
That's a hell of a bad brush to be tarred with, and there's really no excuse for her to have done it to her opponent just for a reality show. Sara Lee's gonna have that follow her around for a long time, maybe her whole career, since all it seems to take is one suggestion and people will leap at it like vultures and never let go.

 

[Raw64life]

But nobody actually watches Tough Enough. Tree falling in the woods and all that.

She also couldn't really do anything about Vince and Kevin Dunn telling her to act like Simon Cowell because they're both British and judging a reality show.

 

[miserable]

Slut-shaming is wrong but fat-shaming isn't. Ok America.

 

[real_slime]

Slut-shaming is wrong but fat-shaming isn't. Ok America.

uh

it's not the same thing

fat shaming is mean but eating too much is a behaviour you can deal with

having sex is a behaviour men get loved for, and women get hated for. women gotta fuck too, let's let the women fuck.

and while we're at it let's let the fat man and woman eat too if they're happy. but it ain't the same thing. good sex is a universally positive thing and the whole 'she's a slut' shit has gotta stop.

 

[Ithil]

Slut-shaming is wrong but fat-shaming isn't. Ok America.

These are completely separate subjects

 

[FlammableD]

Also telling someone to get in good enough shape to do a physically demanding job != fat-shaming.

 

[real_slime]

Also telling someone to get in good enough shape to do a physically demanding job != fat-shaming.

i'm not a fan of the kevin owens is fat posts. i think fat fucks have a place in wwe and everywhere in life, and if it's working for KO (and it is) then awesome.

but yeah fatness is as much a personality trait as it is a physical state in my mind. and it isn't about being lazy, it's about lifestyle. and sometimes? it isn't even about anything and it isn't a personality trait at all and then it's just nothing.

scott steiner saying HE'S FAT is cool cos Samoa Joe is a wrestler which is a job about muscles

amanda saying sara lee is a sex-haver ain't cool cos that's got nothing to do with anything, and so what? let sara lee fuck it up. we should all be fucking it up.

 

[FlammableD]

i'm not a fan of the kevin owens is fat posts. i think fat fucks have a place in wwe and everywhere in life, and if it's working for KO (and it is) then awesome.

but yeah fatness is as much a personality trait as it is a physical state in my mind. and it isn't about being lazy, it's about lifestyle. and sometimes? it isn't even about anything and it isn't a personality trait at all and then it's just nothing.

scott steiner saying HE'S FAT is cool cos Samoa Joe is a wrestler which is a job about muscles

amanda saying sara lee is a sex-haver ain't cool cos that's got nothing to do with anything, and so what? let sara lee fuck it up. we should all be fucking it up.

Well yeah, that's why I said enough to do the job. Regardless of how you think KO looks, you can't argue it's limiting his ability to do his job. If you're comfortable with your body and you can keep up with the job, then great.

 

[Zach]

Just watched the Tough Enough matches from last night (after not paying any attention to this trash). Thoughts:

ZZ - Haha. That look. Hire this guy as a jobber.

Josh - Impressive stature. Was bad, but hopefully he is able to surpass Crush. I doubt he will, though.

Amanda - We already have an Alexa Bliss, lady. Even if these ladies were good I wouldn't know it, though, because Alicia Fox was incredibly bad. Why the h did they not have Charlotte/Becky/Sasha/Bayley wrassle the chicas? Jeeesus.

Sara - Probably better than Amanda. Hard to tell because oh my god Alicia Fox. With that attire (talking about Sara again), I hope her entrance included an upright, urinating bear.

 

[Intheflorsh]

Also telling someone to get in good enough shape to do a physically demanding job != fat-shaming.

Right, but when the "telling" is indistinguishable from plain bullying, it's fat shaming.

 

[Marvel]

He is the future of the wwe.

The present.

 

[Ithil]

One thing Tough Enough did do is solidify that Bryan is a cool guy.

 

[real_slime]

Well yeah, that's why I said enough to do the job. Regardless of how you think KO looks, you can't argue it's limiting his ability to do his job. If you're comfortable with your body and you can keep up with the job, then great.

uh KO is one of the best in ring workers on the roster right now so i don't get where you grab the 'it's limiting his ability' thing. the dude does moonsaults of the top rope and all kinds of athletic shit. he's fine and he just went three hard nights in a row and he's STILL fine.

what's your point? at a certain point it just becomes about a person wanting to see muscles in wrestling, which is fine, but admit that's all it is. KO isn't limiting himself at all, the dude busts it out. the look part of the equation has a big muscle component, but KO seems to have a lot of muscle under that KFC and he can pull out the good shit. so what's the problem?

 

[imBask]

Raw ratings:


Viewers in millions:
Hour 1 - 3.606m
Hour 2 - 3.794m
Hour 3 - 3.764m


Raw after Summerslam Viewership History:

August 24th, 2015 = 3.721 Million
August 18th, 2014 = 4.19 Million
August 19th, 2013 = 4.3 Million
August 20th, 2012 = 4.47 Million
August 15th, 2011 = 5.05 Million

and people argue me that ratings aren't low

you see, i'm ALWAYS right, so please people just start hating Becky and Bayley because they objectively suck

 

[FlammableD]

uh KO is one of the best in ring workers on the roster right now so i don't get where you grab the 'it's limiting his ability' thing. the dude does moonsaults of the top rope and all kinds of athletic shit. he's fine and he just went three hard nights in a row and he's STILL fine.

what's you point? at a certain point it just becomes about a person wanting to see muscles in wrestling, which is fine, but admit that's all it is. KO isn't limiting himself at all, the dude busts it out.

I'm agreeing with you?

I'm saying that telling someone to be physically fit enough to do their job isn't bullying or fat-shaming, using KO as an example of someone who looks bigger but performs at a top level

 

[El Pescado]

Both Tough Enough and Total Divas have RUINED Paige for me. Did anyone see on Total Divas last night when she decided to "test" her boyfriend by having an attractive girl flirt with him?

 

[FlammableD]

Both Tough Enough and Total Divas have RUINED Paige for me. Did anyone see on Total Divas last night when she decided to "test" her boyfriend by having an attractive girl flirt with him?

psst total divas is kayfabe

 

[Intheflorsh]

Both Tough Enough and Total Divas have RUINED Paige for me. Did anyone see on Total Divas last night when she decided to "test" her boyfriend by having an attractive girl flirt with him?

It's reality TV, it probably wasn't even her idea.

 

[Ithil]

Both Tough Enough and Total Divas have RUINED Paige for me. Did anyone see on Total Divas last night when she decided to "test" her boyfriend by having an attractive girl flirt with him?

I find it weird when wrestling fans of all people don't cotton on to the fact that Total Divas is scripted.

 

[real_slime]

I'm agreeing with you?

I'm saying that telling someone to be physically fit enough to do their job isn't bullying or fat-shaming, using KO as an example of someone who looks bigger but performs at a top level

oh

cool then

i misinterpreted your post. looks like it's all good.

 

[Marvel]

Both Tough Enough and Total Divas have RUINED Paige for me. Did anyone see on Total Divas last night when she decided to "test" her boyfriend by having an attractive girl flirt with him?

It's fake.