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August Wrasslin |OT| The Sunday of Summer

D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
Ithil said:
Problem is they just want any kind of "mainstream" attention whatsoever. They want to have better deals with their sponsors and better ad rates from USA, yet they aren't doing anything to fix the low brow reputation they have that's causing them to get low ad rates and lower deals.
Click to expand...

Sure they are. This is what a lot of this outreach to ESPN has been for, it's mutually beneficial for both brands, as well as Cena showing up a lot on Today Shows. Here's what Meltzer wrote about it.

"Cena will be hosting the Today show on 8/20 for the 9-10 a.m. hour., after doing the same thing on 8/17. This is part of the NBC Universal strategy to soften the image of wrestling and wrestlers so it doesn’t have such a negative stigma among advertisers. Since USA will be broadcasting five hours of wrestling in prime time, and while high rated, they have to charge low ad rates, and WWE doesn’t share in ad money, changing the perception of advertisers about wrestling is important when it comes to both the USA Network bottom line and justifying the rights fees, which escalate over the next two years."
 
R

RP912

Banned
Ithil said:
Problem is they just want any kind of "mainstream" attention whatsoever. They want to have better deals with their sponsors and better ad rates from USA, yet they aren't doing anything to fix the low brow reputation they have that's causing them to get low ad rates and lower deals.
Click to expand...

Why would a company want TMZ to be the front ground for exposure though :/ That's like going up to a paparazzi and hiring them to take footage of every damn thing the celebrity is doing from shitting to eating. I'm all for exposure, but damn try something like ESPN, CNN, or something to make the company look like it has some dignity.

The worst thing that could possibly happen is some sort of scandal that will give TMZ enough ammo to make the company look shittier than before.
 
B

brisk tacos

Banned
Vince McMahon said:
Sure they are. This is what a lot of this outreach to ESPN has been for, it's mutually beneficial for both brands, as well as Cena showing up a lot on Today Shows. Here's what Meltzer wrote about it.

"Cena will be hosting the Today show on 8/20 for the 9-10 a.m. hour., after doing the same thing on 8/17. This is part of the NBC Universal strategy to soften the image of wrestling and wrestlers so it doesn’t have such a negative stigma among advertisers. Since USA will be broadcasting five hours of wrestling in prime time, and while high rated, they have to charge low ad rates, and WWE doesn’t share in ad money, changing the perception of advertisers about wrestling is important when it comes to both the USA Network bottom line and justifying the rights fees, which escalate over the next two years."
Click to expand...

And if I'm not mistake, Total Divas actually has higher ad rates than Raw, and is significantly cheaper to produce. The failure of Tough Enough is likely due to too much focus on wrestling.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
RP912 said:
Why would a company want TMZ to be the front ground for exposure though :/ That's like going up to a paparazzi and hiring them to take footage of every damn thing the celebrity is doing from shitting to eating. I'm all for exposure, but damn try something like ESPN, CNN, or something to make the company look like it has some dignity.

The worst thing that could possibly happen is some sort of scandal that will give TMZ enough ammo to make the company look shittier than before.
Click to expand...

The reason why TMZ is good is because they are focused on Hollywood-level personalities and it gives wrasslers more credit, in that way. Also they do some good work. They reported on Bryan catching his bed intruder or whatever it was.
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
brisk tacos said:
And if I'm not mistake, Total Divas actually has higher ad rates than Raw, and is significantly cheaper to produce. The failure of Tough Enough is likely due to too much focus on wrestling.
Click to expand...

The failure of Tough Enough is due to its current formatting. The previous Tough Enough with Austin as host had much better ratings, IIRC
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
brisk tacos said:
And if I'm not mistake, Total Divas actually has higher ad rates than Raw, and is significantly cheaper to produce. The failure of Tough Enough is likely due to too much focus on wrestling.
Click to expand...

I love reality TV but I have zero interest in Tough Enough due to the focus on the wrestling. I'm definitely not the only one.
 
R

real_slime

Banned
imbask said:
no she won't, the divas division is beyond saving and she's in it
Click to expand...

the boss is irepressible

these motherfuckers are gonna be cheering her for wrestlemanias to come despite the booking

and maybe the booking will get better. you all laugh, but they are least trying new strategies with the women's division.

god damit sasha is so fucking cool.

she's gonna be the rock of the the women's division.
 
I

imBask

Banned
real_slime said:
the boss is irepressible

these motherfuckers are gonna be cheering her for wrestlemanias to come despite the booking

and maybe the booking will get better. you all laugh, but they are least trying new strategies with the women's division.

god damit sasha is so fucking cool.
Click to expand...

no they won't. The daughter of Ric Flair and the crowds favorite Paige got boo'd out of the building just this week

no one cares who they are, that division sucks, they can't put on a decent match and they can't put on a decent segment. Just split brands and make an "all divas" show so we can move on with our lives
 
R

real_slime

Banned
imbask said:
no they won't. The daughter of Ric Flair and the crowds favorite Paige got boo'd out of the building just this week

no one cares who they are, that division sucks, they can't put on a decent match and they can't put on a decent segment. Just split brands and make an "all divas" show so we can move on with our lives
Click to expand...

they were also chanting we want sasha so okay you're just like 'women? competing? UGH'

and also this was a terrible booking move, and the tag team revoboring is a bad booking move. they need to make a few better moves.

'the daughter of ric flair' gimmick is part of why people don't care, paige has sucked consistently in the ring and on the promo. they aren't the stars. well charlotte is good but her gimmick is shit and she's stuck with it for life apparently.

becky and bayley are both great in the ring and not bad on the mic

but sasha's gonna get over regardless of all booking. hell she already is and she's done nothing. people can just see it. she's the one.
 
B

brisk tacos

Banned
RP912 said:
Why would a company want TMZ to be the front ground for exposure though :/ That's like going up to a paparazzi and hiring them to take footage of every damn thing the celebrity is doing from shitting to eating. I'm all for exposure, but damn try something like ESPN, CNN, or something to make the company look like it has some dignity.

The worst thing that could possibly happen is some sort of scandal that will give TMZ enough ammo to make the company look shittier than before.
Click to expand...

Vince McMahon said:
The reason why TMZ is good is because they are focused on Hollywood-level personalities and it gives wrasslers more credit, in that way. Also they do some good work. They reported on Bryan catching his bed intruder or whatever it was.
Click to expand...

They also did the thing with Darren Young coming out, which dovetailed neatly into WWE's partnership with GLAAD. Most people working for WWE corporate are actual business people who know what they're doing. While ratings are down, mainstream exposure is way up, which can only mean good things for the future. They're rebuilding the audience This exposing the business stuff is old and outdated thinking. The business is past being exposed, and WWE is wisely moving away from making their wrestlers stay in gimmick at all times, instead showing the public that they are real people and personalities that are just as important as the characters they play on TV.

WWE will have another boom period in the next 2-3 years, and it won't be because of the characters on screen, but the attachment to the people playing those characters. That's what the Reality Era stuff is all about.
 
J

jmdajr

Member
real_slime said:
why do you tv havers post this like it matters constantly

people don't watch tv anymore

there's your explanation, that's the whoooooole mystery. you've got motherfuckers checking it out a while later, torrenting, streaming, whatever. nobody watches tv ESPECIALLY not young audiences

'lol it's 3 mil that's not like the attitude era'

it's like saying there's a lack of beepers nowadays

'lol beepers done fell off'
Click to expand...

Raw is still on top of cable ratings. It's low as a whole. Fuck I watch it on Hulu now. Lots do.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
Sephzilla said:
The failure of Tough Enough is due to its current formatting. The previous Tough Enough with Austin as host had much better ratings, IIRC
Click to expand...

I might posit that that Tough Enough had artificially high ratings because Austin is the biggest draw in history, and that current Tough Enough is more in line with what one might expect of a reality show about people who want to be drug-addicted con-men.
 
F

FlammableD

Banned
iwa_soft-core.jpg
 
R

real_slime

Banned
jmdajr said:
Raw is still on top of cable ratings. It's low as a whole. Fuck I watch it on Hulu now. Lots do.
Click to expand...

so your point is it's even less of a problem than people try to make it i guess?

the ratings are fine man. wwe is even gaining traction in terms of the mainstream media. there are no problems in that area. it ain't monday night wars but who cares, that was its own thing.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
jmdajr said:
I am sure some things are real, but only if it's approved to be shown. For example TJ getting hurt.
Click to expand...

Certainly. Good reality TV is like 10% real and exaggerated truth and staged bs for the other 90%.

There has to be an illusion that what you're seeing is real.

Seriously though, reality TV and American pro-wrestling are in essence two sides of the same coin.
 
J

jmdajr

Member
real_slime said:
so your point is it's even less of a problem than people try to make it i guess?

the ratings are fine man. wwe is even gaining traction in terms of the mainstream media. there are no problems in that area. it ain't monday night wars but who cares, that was its own thing.
Click to expand...

I ain't worried about it. WWE isn't going out of business. I don't know if people think low ratings will give them more of what they want.

Vince is never giving you what you want though. You'll get some sure, but it ain't changing shit. If you hate the show don't watch.

I don't love all the characters and all the angles, and that's ok.
 
I

Ithil

Member
Most of their good mainstream attention comes from corporate deals and PR things, however. Effectively none of it comes from their actual TV shows. They haven't done a thing to fix that.

No one expects top shelf writing and acting from wrestling, it's to a different standard. But they like to tout that they aren't wrestling but an "action adventure soap opera" or whatever, so if they want to style themselves as a regular TV drama, then they can get held to regular TV drama standards. In which case their writing, acting and continuity are all completely awful. They would be below even bottom level network shows like CSI or whatever.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
Aiii said:
Certainly. Good reality TV is like 10% real and exaggerated truth and staged bs for the other 90%.

There has to be an illusion that what you're seeing is real.

Seriously though, reality TV and American pro-wrestling are in essence two sides of the same coin.
Click to expand...

They really are. A lot of what turns people onto Reality TV is being "in on it" - saying "Oh that's not real" and that's fine. You see it a lot, like there was that one RIDICULOUS towing company show that was clearly scripted and ridiculous, and that was the point - to get people to say "oh god that's so fake" - but the brilliant part of it is that it was by design, and people get "get" it...kept watching.
 
J

jmdajr

Member
Ithil said:
Most of their good mainstream attention comes from corporate deals and PR things, however. Effectively none of it comes from their actual TV shows. They haven't done a thing to fix that.

No one expects top shelf writing and acting from wrestling, it's to a different standard. But they like to tout that they aren't wrestling but an "action adventure soap opera" or whatever, so if they want to style themselves as a regular TV drama, then they can get held to regular TV drama standards. In which case their writing, acting and continuity are all completely awful. They would be below even bottom level network shows like CSI or whatever.
Click to expand...

And it will never be. It's Live, wrestlers get hurt, not everyone has the full range, fans change tastes, I mean it's amazing it's even a thing really.
 
I

Ithil

Member
jmdajr said:
And it will never be. It's Live, wrestlers get hurt, not everyone has the full range, fans change tastes, I mean it's amazing it's even a thing really.
Click to expand...

It never is going to be the quality of the best TV shows by the nature of its structure, running live 52 weeks a year and subject to injuries and crowd reactions. But that doesn't mean you can't get better writers, give the talent some acting lessons (or stop asking them to talk for 20 minutes if they can't act), hire a continuity manager and actually plan out things in advance, with some contingencies if the stories are flops or someone is hurt.
They've got 27 writers and they can't keep a story straight for even one week, and that's with only about 10% of their show even having a story, the rest are just treading water with no angles.
 
J

jmdajr

Member
Ithil said:
It never is going to be the quality of the best TV shows by the nature of its structure, running live 52 weeks a year and subject to injuries and crowd reactions. But that doesn't mean you can't get better writers, give the talent some acting lessons (or stop asking them to talk for 20 minutes if they can't act), hire a continuity manager and actually plan out things in advance, with some contingencies if the stories are flops or someone is hurt.
They've got 27 writers and they can't keep a story straight for even one week, and that's with only about 10% of their show even having a story, the rest are just treading water with no angles.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't hold my breath
 
I

imBask

Banned
real_slime said:
they were also chanting we want sasha so okay you're just like 'women? competing? UGH'

and also this was a terrible booking move, and the tag team revoboring is a bad booking move. they need to make a few better moves.

'the daughter of ric flair' gimmick is part of why people don't care, paige has sucked consistently in the ring and on the promo. they aren't the stars. well charlotte is good but her gimmick is shit and she's stuck with it for life apparently.

becky and bayley are both great in the ring and not bad on the mic

but sasha's gonna get over regardless of all booking. hell she already is and she's done nothing. people can just see it. she's the one.
Click to expand...

Bayley and Becky are both horrible

the whole divas division is horrible

Sasha is fine but she won't make it, AJ could wrestle a decent match and they ruined her too
 
B

Browny

Banned
I was listening to the AE Podcast a while ago, and they chatted about how the product improved after Russo left and they employed Chris Kreski as the main writer.

Singular writer.

One.

27 is overkill - but it's likely because Vince wants to boss more people around. HHH and Dusty deal with one person at NXT. Notice the difference.
 
J

jmdajr

Member
So Rock is rocking.

Varietybaywatch is reporting that the season finale of “Ballers” averaged 1.43 million viewers. This is down from last weeks 1.57 million viewers. The show averaged a gross weekly multi-platform audience of 8.8 million viewers, which is third all-time behind “Sex and the City” and “Hung.” According to Variety, “Ballers” is the most watched comedy on HBO in six years.
 
I

Ithil

Member
Vince McMahon said:
Sure they are. This is what a lot of this outreach to ESPN has been for, it's mutually beneficial for both brands, as well as Cena showing up a lot on Today Shows. Here's what Meltzer wrote about it.

"Cena will be hosting the Today show on 8/20 for the 9-10 a.m. hour., after doing the same thing on 8/17. This is part of the NBC Universal strategy to soften the image of wrestling and wrestlers so it doesn’t have such a negative stigma among advertisers. Since USA will be broadcasting five hours of wrestling in prime time, and while high rated, they have to charge low ad rates, and WWE doesn’t share in ad money, changing the perception of advertisers about wrestling is important when it comes to both the USA Network bottom line and justifying the rights fees, which escalate over the next two years."
Click to expand...

Yeah, they're trying now, but even then, look at who's doing this, NBC and not WWE. WWE have tried for years and years (since about 2008) to improve their image to sponsors with the PG rating, all those programs and deals with charities and whatnot. But then they constantly remind everyone they're low brow with the content of their TV show, or how they handle themselves.
WWE do an awful lot of talking and little doing.
 
S

Sibersk Esto

Banned
Ithil said:
It never is going to be the quality of the best TV shows by the nature of its structure, running live 52 weeks a year and subject to injuries and crowd reactions. But that doesn't mean you can't get better writers, give the talent some acting lessons (or stop asking them to talk for 20 minutes if they can't act), hire a continuity manager and actually plan out things in advance, with some contingencies if the stories are flops or someone is hurt.
They've got 27 writers and they can't keep a story straight for even one week, and that's with only about 10% of their show even having a story, the rest are just treading water with no angles.
Click to expand...

What's easier, that or philanthropy?
 
I

Ithil

Member
Browny said:
I was listening to the AE Podcast a while ago, and they chatted about how the product improved after Russo left and they employed Chris Kreski as the main writer.

Singular writer.

One.

27 is overkill - but it's likely because Vince wants to boss more people around. HHH and Dusty deal with one person at NXT. Notice the difference.
Click to expand...

I recall hearing of a head writer around the time of the Attitude Era, it might have been that one, who would plan out stories complete with storyboards and everything, and they laughed at him for doing it.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
jmdajr said:
So Rock is rocking.

Varietybaywatch is reporting that the season finale of “Ballers” averaged 1.43 million viewers. This is down from last weeks 1.57 million viewers. The show averaged a gross weekly multi-platform audience of 8.8 million viewers, which is third all-time behind “Sex and the City” and “Hung.” According to Variety, “Ballers” is the most watched comedy on HBO in six years.
Click to expand...

It's such an FnP show, I really like it. Glad it did well.
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
Just off the top of my head, two ways I think WWE could improve its image to sponsors would be;

1) Hire an outside firm to do advertising for WWE. The internal marketing team WWE has tends to suck when it comes to marketing their product in a way that makes it look interesting and acceptable. Shit, 2K Games does way better WWE advertising than WWE does and they make kideo games.

2) Better writing. WWE's viewed as low brow entertainment because it's low brow writing that insults the intelligence of the average viewer. I fully believe that you could have a decently written wrestling show and it would help erase some of that low brow stigma.
 
S

Sibersk Esto

Banned
Browny said:
I was listening to the AE Podcast a while ago, and they chatted about how the product improved after Russo left and they employed Chris Kreski as the main writer.

Singular writer.

One.

27 is overkill - but it's likely because Vince wants to boss more people around. HHH and Dusty deal with one person at NXT. Notice the difference.
Click to expand...

Ithil said:
I recall hearing of a head writer around the time of the Attitude Era, it might have been that one, who would plan out stories complete with storyboards and everything, and they laughed at him for doing it.
Click to expand...

Kreski's storyboard style is something the company actively rejects. They want spontaneity not storyline payoff.
 
R

real_slime

Banned
imbask said:
Bayley and Becky are both horrible

the whole divas division is horrible

Sasha is fine but she won't make it, AJ could wrestle a decent match and they ruined her too
Click to expand...

bayley and becky ain't horrible what the hell

where the fuck did you come from dude let's work this shit out
 
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